Mesmer patch notes

[Safandula.8723]

i dont really care about dps loose in fractals. But cms + t4s without stab are pain in the ass

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:Had a quick discussion with a friend before I head off, I think chrono could bring time warp + mimic focusing on quickness (+ some alacrity share) while having a renegade slotting rightous rebel. Since Orders from Above now affects up to 10 allies with ~60% uptime without any concentration investment they could potentially replace second chrono in alacrity department while running full viper to have additional dps increase. Would have to check the quickness uptime on second group with the signet + mimic when I get back though.

In that case running 2 quickness firebrands would be better dpswise right?Also without counting timewarp. The second subsquad would get worse quickness uptime then you provide to your subsquad with normal setup (woa, wor, soi). Mimic is, if we are only talking about quickness, same as well of action but with higher cd. even if they would have same cd then you generate as much quickness to second subsquad as you genetate to your subsquad without mimic. And that is not 100 percent even with timewarp

No what I'm suggesting is 7-2-1 set up for something interesting, in which you have chrono, renegade, banner and druid. Theoretically chrono should still be able to keep up 80-90% quickness uptime with Time warp and mimic/signet with inspirations/chaos, while providing different variety of boons that firebrand can't supply without dps loss. To top it off you can have Well of Action as something to top up chrono's own quickness to 100% so he can share reliably, it also more or less buff groups to 90+% quickness uptime. Chrono is still the mainstay in terms of tanking/CC, so that's something firebrand can't really replace without dps loss. This sets up free up a dps spot (one and half really with viper renegade)..If you take 2 chronos, druid and banner you have almost 100% uptime on all boons exept stability and you have free elite on chronos. How is it worth it to replace one chrono with renegade? You lose at least 10 percent quickness (as you said) and huge uptime on other boons and only thing you get is another dps proffesion.

[Me Games Ma.8426]

Can anyone tell me how much the healing increase is on Blurred Inscriptions' Signet of the Ether?

[Dethl.2875]

@Me Games Ma.8426 said:Can anyone tell me how much the healing increase is on Blurred Inscriptions' Signet of the Ether?

at minimum healing power (130), it goes from 5671 to 6711wearing my motley assortment of zerk and commander gears gets me to 339 healing power, which is 5848 to 6888

so i guess it's just a flat 1040 increase

[Hackuuna.4085]

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Does the signet of dom boon strip occur before or after the stun? Does it have a particular boon prioritization?

Did some basic testing on this. Stun occurs before boon rip therefore any stab will prevent the stun even if the rip ends up taking away the remaining stab stacks. Aegis blocks the signet and prevents any boon rip.

I'm not familiar with boon rip prioritization but from what I observed in the golem test arena there was a prioritization with some of the more valuable boons being last on the list (stab, resist, quickness). This may be due to how the boons get applied to the golem however so probably more testing needs to be done.

[alchemist.6851]

i spent about 2 weeks and 200 gold to get commander gear and ascended trinkets for my brand new chrono... boons duration was doing pretty well but now it’s substantially less powerful in solo play

[Curunen.8729]

On a whim I decided to try out my previous roaming build in wvw this evening with the new Elusive Mind, and very soon discovered how brutal it is. I persisted for enough encounters to get some experience with the change. And it's totally not worth it.

If you happen to press dodge during any stray daze (no not even stun or whatever, just simple daze - eg from traited steal/mark, mantra of distraction, etc), which will happen especially in outnumbered, you can kiss your kitten goodbye - or waste all your skills in a desperate bid to gtfo/pray you can sustain till it ends.

Would be better if Anet just disabled/deleted the trait until they can come up with something new.

[Durzlla.6295]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:Had a quick discussion with a friend before I head off, I think chrono could bring time warp + mimic focusing on quickness (+ some alacrity share) while having a renegade slotting rightous rebel. Since Orders from Above now affects up to 10 allies with ~60% uptime without any concentration investment they could potentially replace second chrono in alacrity department while running full viper to have additional dps increase. Would have to check the quickness uptime on second group with the signet + mimic when I get back though.

In that case running 2 quickness firebrands would be better dpswise right?Also without counting timewarp. The second subsquad would get worse quickness uptime then you provide to your subsquad with normal setup (woa, wor, soi). Mimic is, if we are only talking about quickness, same as well of action but with higher cd. even if they would have same cd then you generate as much quickness to second subsquad as you genetate to your subsquad without mimic. And that is not 100 percent even with timewarp

No what I'm suggesting is 7-2-1 set up for something interesting, in which you have chrono, renegade, banner and druid. Theoretically chrono should still be able to keep up 80-90% quickness uptime with Time warp and mimic/signet with inspirations/chaos, while providing different variety of boons that firebrand can't supply without dps loss. To top it off you can have Well of Action as something to top up chrono's own quickness to 100% so he can share reliably, it also more or less buff groups to 90+% quickness uptime. Chrono is still the mainstay in terms of tanking/CC, so that's something firebrand can't really replace without dps loss. This sets up free up a dps spot (one and half really with viper renegade)..If you take 2 chronos, druid and banner you have almost 100% uptime on all boons exept stability and you have free elite on chronos. How is it worth it to replace one chrono with renegade? You lose at least 10 percent quickness (as you said) and huge uptime on other boons and only thing you get is another dps proffesion.

Keep in mind you can actually bring a tempest now to help with boonshare, and unless something has changed they’re also very good at might stacking, so there’s some raid team theory crafting that can go on with swapping out the go to meta with some different combos.

Might not turn out as the BEST team, but it might be close.

@patchnotes I’m gonna get hung for this, but I like the changes to the inspiration line, opens up more variety for the game now that Chrono isn’t THE support spec. Also I’m excited to try out the new signet trait (and that heal on clone generation) on my Chrono, think it can be fun.

Also, ffs ANET just kill Elusive Mind for good at this point and put something new in, stop pretending like this will be run now.

[Me Games Ma.8426]

I just wanted to share my build conversion for my WvW roaming power mirage (I will play it as hybrid now)Old build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsdRnsICVohlpBOoBMMjlTDzfBGBvgkBgUwy5sKEFyOA-jFyHQBvT9HWdEA6hyPvoP4jnCAmoEEAPAgxt/w8gAArqUVVVA-w

New Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsaRnsICVohlpBOoBMMjlcjqMAStWz/8b/5/MGahUA-jFyHQB9QJCTUC+xTBAAeCAeRfwAVe9T1fG3+DbKCAsqSVVVBA-w

The changes are pretty good for me as I can now spec into dueling which allows me to go for condition damage as well.Also I switch from 10 × condition cleanse to 7 × 1 condition cleanse + 1 × 5 condition cleanse.While I reduce my base crit chance significantly I gain high fury uptime from going into dueling which also enables me to go for traited pistol and even more condition based fun from ineptitude.I am thinking about switching greatsword for something else like scepter/x but I really enjoy the burst. Ability.

[Fashion Mage.3712]

@MidnightX.6294 said:glamour had one trait. now no traits?

Behold, ANet-tier design.

[Levetty.1279]

I don't think you people appreciate how much I miss having traited Signits in my open world build. I'm kind of impressed they found a way to nerf Power Chrono while trying to nerf Support Chrono. :'(

[Carighan.6758]

@Dethl.2875 said:anyway, we now have a new grandmaster trait that has a worse healing coefficient than every other trait that heals in it's line (including healing prism)how useful

Is that relevant, though? It has no ICD, right? So each time a clone gets destroyed during shatter processing it procs? That can potentially be a lot of healing pulses.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Just delete elusive mind pls.Just do it.Please.

[Nepster.4275]

That was a OP trait, but this is a overkill

[OriOri.8724]

@Curunen.8729 said:Would be better if Anet just disabled/deleted the trait until they can come up with something new.

I've been trying to get them to do that since before PoF dropped. What is most likely going to happen is another nerf to EM in a couple months for no reason at all, and then in maybe 1.5-2 years the trait will be removed and replaced with something new, and Anet will pretend that the entire EM fiasco never happened, and they will never mention it again.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Would be better if Anet just disabled/deleted the trait until they can come up with something new.

I've been trying to get them to do that since before PoF dropped. What is most likely going to happen is another nerf to EM in a couple months for no reason at all, and then in maybe 1.5-2 years the trait will be removed and replaced with something new, and Anet will pretend that the entire EM fiasco never happened, and they will never mention it again.

Can we just promise not to be 'I told you so about it' if ANet agrees to skip all the middle parts?

[Curunen.8729]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Curunen.8729" said:Would be better if Anet just disabled/deleted the trait until they can come up with something new.

I've been trying to get them to do that since before PoF dropped. What is most likely going to happen is another nerf to EM in a couple months for no reason at all, and then in maybe 1.5-2 years the trait will be removed and replaced with something new, and Anet will pretend that the entire EM fiasco never happened, and they will never mention it again.

Prior to pof of course nearly everyone's first reaction (including mine) was "that's crazy powerful"/"they'll never go through with that", etc - but they did, I guess expansion sales and all that...

For the record it's only because they seem to refuse to want to balance what could be an interesting trait in a way that doesn't make it useless (and as we've all discussed over the year there are many possibilities) that I've got no choice but to accept any change that makes it worth using again. As it is right now they have effectively deleted/disabled it, because it's not a pve trait anyway given IH and even DC there would be superior for damage (which makes the skill split part even funnier), and in pvp/wvw it's objectively worse than IH.

The thing is the exhaustion may even be acceptable if mirage cloak baseline couldn't be used while cced, and EM exhaustion didn't proc on breaking Daze given how prevalent daze is and the fact you can normal dodge while dazed anyway - or at least they differentiated the amounts of exhaustion based on what type of cc you break:Daze -> 2s exhaustionFear/Taunt -> should be condi removal (so zero exhaustion)Stun/Knockdown/Knockback/Float/Pull/Sink/Launch -> 6s exhaustion

Anyway chance of that happening is slim so I'm happy to go with whatever makes a worthwhile GM trait again - I miss the condi removal (mind you if they moved the condi removal to Renewing Oasis instead I wouldn't care what happened with EM, but the chance of that happening is... well stranger things have happened but who knows).

[zoomborg.9462]

Played fractals todat as chrono and what i realized is that mimic rotation is not worth it cause u cant upkeep full rotation as most bosses tend to have on and off phases *(unlike sabetha,MO, etc etc). Instead u rely on 1 chrono,1 bs, 3 pdps to burst and phase as fast as possible. Ideally they should be weavers for insane burst and might/fury stacking so they cover offensive boons as druid aint in the comp. It also gives chrono some leeway to run illusion for the fast cs cooldown. Overall the comps seem to be much more restrictive with the SoI change more than ever. Sad day.

[OriOri.8724]

@Curunen.8729 Prior to PoF I actually saw quite a handful of players, some mesmers even, who thought EM was perfectly balanced, and a small few that were convinced it was overhyped and actually needed to be buffed. So this feeling definitely wasn't universal. However I agree that everyone that knew more than the absolute minimum about mesmer or GW2 combat agreed that it was broken as soon as it was leaked.

I think your next paragraph hits it pretty much on the head. We see the same thing with CS affecting elite skills. There's really no good reason it should, balance wise, but its a super interesting and unique mechanic to reset your entire bar, including your elite, which is most likely why it was never addressed. With EM though, its not really that interesting of a trait. Mirage cloak is the only interesting thing about it, but that's baseline mirage. EM itself is just the most broken stunbreak in the game, even if vigor didn't exist in the game, which is coupled to one of the best dodges in the game to boot.

I'm gonna be a bit cynical here, but I honestly think that one of the devs on the skills and balance team (from my understanding, they are also the ones that design new specs) can't handle valid criticism. Em is his/her brainchild for mirage, so the base functionality can never be changed in their minds. I just don't see any other way of rationalizing how Anet can repeatedly have something this broken in the game, ignore for far too long, and then implement the exact opposite of what every class expert knows will actually address the root of the balance problem with said skill/trait.

Yes, I understand that as mesmer mains we are biased towards our class. But we are also some of the people who best understand it and what it can do, and are therefore some of the most qualified to tell Anet how to fix something that is broken in a way that doesn't smiters boon it. We've been giving them suggestions since before PoF dropped about how to balance EM without removing its flavor, and some of the ideas actually made it a more flavorful trait in my opinion, yet all ignored. All criticism and feedback ignored. No one asked for exhaustion on EM , and when it was first proposed, we were all right there telling Anet how, not only would exhaustion make the trait unfun, but more importantly it wouldn't address the underlying issue with the trait. Well, look at that, we were fucking right Anet. That's why you had to nerf it again, because it was still a broken trait, because, just like we tried to tell you, exhaustion didn't address the underrlying issue with the trait. And now its been nerfed so hard that you only use the trait if yo want to be masochistic

[Curunen.8729]

@"OriOri.8724Two thumbs up from me - hopefully someone from Anet reads that and takes it on board. On the note of EM being interesting - I was thinking from the angle that it is a change of flavour from stunbreaks being associated with utility skills and had the potential to allow for different build options. But anyway we're well past that point now.

I have been trying it again this evening in wvw and it's just so damn risky compared with IH. You've got to keep a such keen eye out for daze and not dodge when dazed (which no normal dodge has to worry about - so much for equality from the anti-mesmer bias) that it is a huge handicap. People see "stunbreak" in the tooltip and rant "EM broken OP needs 20s exhaustion..." or whatever, and don't realise that every single daze effectively becomes a proper hard cc - because god forbid if you dodge during a daze you're going to get punished.

Sure in certain fights it can be managed - and the handicap can be just about managed if wanting the condi cleanse - because a lot of players in wvw are, how can I put this, not able to fight well against mirage anyway - but when coming up against good players and if outnumbered against good players, it just falls apart. If they really want this for EM, it shouldn't proc on Daze otherwise it is truly broken in a bad way. But of course the best thing now is a total overhaul of it.

And if they are reading this I'd like to be open and say we as players I, as a player who enjoy this class are of course absolutely grateful and thankful for the work you put in to make the class what it is. So when we come together and agree on some serious balance concerns, it is out of love for the class and a desire to support your work, because with the number of us collectively we are able to explore many of the possible situations that may not be apparent even if having thought about it deeply. (Edit - I realise I'm speaking for others on this forum who may not share this sentiment so please excuse that, but just trying to be positive because I'd like to think that Mr Gee and the other devs working on balance do have the best intentions in mind even if occasionally some changes don't work out this way)

[mortrialus.3062]

I remember thinking Elusive Mind was a uniquely powerful trait, but didn't think it alone could make up for the hot garbage that was the initial tuning of the Mirage during Demo Weekend.

I even found my quote!

This is a heavily underrated trait. It’s quite possibly the best thing the Mirage gets. If Mirage Cloak’s issue with reducing your mobility and the Mesmer and Mirage’s lack of vigor and Endurance generation were fixed this would be an incredible trait in PvP and WvW.

Still a bit salty you can't evade away from a target while facing them and attacking them (Would be amazing for ranged ambushed like scepter and staff). Buffing Mirage Cloak to a 1 second evasion from a .75 second evasion greatly helped through. Not sure why I thought the initial tuning of Mirage was lacking vigor. I'm guessing I completely blanked on Critical Infusion back then because Dueling+Mirage gave you damn near 100% vigor up time before the vigor got split for PvP and WvW.

It's sooooo funny reading all the doom and gloom about Mirage back after the demo weekend. Mesmers were talking like it was the apocalypse. Especially when Mirage got buffed to god mode. There were a few people who noticed the potential of Elusive Mind as immensely powerful. A lot of people were like "This trait is fine." from a "I've complained about everything else being so garbage and don't have complaints about this one. There are also a few people who wanted Elusive Mind buffed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Feedback-Mirage-Traits

[Curunen.8729]

Heh, interesting to look back on all that.

Funny it seems I thought the condi removal for movement impairing condis wouldn't be enough, but didn't realise the potential of vigour+food+energysigils+adventurerrunes for cleanse - likely a relic of being used to passive anti-cc condi from building chrono with time marches on and suitable runes/food to ignore cripple/chill/immob. Also this was before mirage cloak became 1s, and 1s of superspeed, so kind of makes sense because the 3/4s dodge and superspeed had more scope to be tied down with things like cripple, but after it became 1s and with the cleanse from EM made dealing with any condi a lot easier.

I would also still agree with myself wanting a long ICD like 20s on EM stunbreak together with a visual indicator like changing the colour of the dodge bar from orange to purple (or something) when on cooldown. But I think that ship has sailed sadly.

A side note regarding IH, I still believe mirage should have been built around that as standard, with the entire spec being balanced around clones evading with you and copying your auto/ambush - and even changing shatters to sort of clone commands, but that level of redesign is way off the table given the normal scope of balance changes - unless there's some deep surprise overhaul in this game's future.

Anyway, we are where we are now - all that can be hoped for are changes that allow each GM trait to be worthwhile choices as a start.

[OriOri.8724]

@Curunen.8729 said:@"OriOri.8724Two thumbs up from me - hopefully someone from Anet reads that and takes it on board. On the note of EM being interesting - I was thinking from the angle that it is a change of flavour from stunbreaks being associated with utility skills and had the potential to allow for different build options. But anyway we're well past that point now.

I have been trying it again this evening in wvw and it's just so kitten risky compared with IH. You've got to keep a such keen eye out for daze and not dodge when dazed (which no normal dodge has to worry about - so much for equality from the anti-mesmer bias) that it is a huge handicap. People see "stunbreak" in the tooltip and rant "EM broken OP needs 20s exhaustion..." or whatever, and don't realise that every single daze effectively becomes a proper hard cc - because god forbid if you dodge during a daze you're going to get punished.

Sure in certain fights it can be managed - and the handicap can be just about managed if wanting the condi cleanse - because a lot of players in wvw are, how can I put this, not able to fight well against mirage anyway - but when coming up against good players and if outnumbered against good players, it just falls apart. If they really want this for EM, it shouldn't proc on Daze otherwise it is truly broken in a bad way. But of course the best thing now is a total overhaul of it.

And if they are reading this I'd like to be open and say we as players I, as a player who enjoy this class are of course absolutely grateful and thankful for the work you put in to make the class what it is. So when we come together and agree on some serious balance concerns, it is out of love for the class and a desire to support your work, because with the number of us collectively we are able to explore many of the possible situations that may not be apparent even if having thought about it deeply. (Edit - I realise I'm speaking for others on this forum who may not share this sentiment so please excuse that, but just trying to be positive because I'd like to think that Mr Gee and the other devs working on balance do have the best intentions in mind even if occasionally some changes don't work out this way)

If this is even read by one of the balance devs, they won't take it to heart. They've had too many chances, and everytime that they actually do something, they listen to the people who know the least about mesmer as a class. I do agree though that EM does have more flavor than I gave it credit for in my first comment, but at this point, its just so risky. Even if 1v1 duels, its just an added strain on your end to keep track of dazes when you're just trying to dodge. Mesmer already has plenty of stun breaks, that added strain just isn't worth it in my opinion

[Daishi.6027]

Can we have our vigor and jaunts back plz?

[viquing.8254]

@Daishi.6027 said:Can we have our vigor and jaunts back plz?

And glamour trait plz.