MESMER-ELUSIVE MIND NERF- Are you Happy now?

[FtoPScrub.5476]

IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of bitching.

[bravan.3876]

@"incisorr.9502" said:it just feels like people don't even understand mesmer?

what "spam buttons for conditions"? lol what? You can't spam buttons for conditions and get kills, not on higher elo. You need to combo properly even with condi mirage and its much harder than power one cus you actually need illusions and have lower range and even then its CONDI, they have time to react to cleanse it.

Elusive mind mesmers dont have "spam buttons for condi" and never did, if you thought so then that's your fault for being bad?

The point is that EM already wasn't meta regardless of what metabattle says and they nerfed it again which means their source of information regarding balance is bad. I was just matched in a game with people 250 rating below me and the enemy mesmer had the exact copy build from metabattle which is garbage and he couldnt do anything against me so i can see how against worse enemies the trait was maybe good but thats a case of l2p not of the trait being too strong. 3 sex exhaustion was already bad and super punishable

Powermes easier than condi/hybrid? That made my day!

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Just dodge the cc before it hits you and you don't incur exhaustion.

Sigh..another-one who does'nt know how mirage exhaustion & dodge & how it all works to the EM trait. How not surprising..hurgh.. :expressionless:FYI: cuz you dint take the time to play a mirage build or at least find out how it works. When you dodge traited on EM, you automatically get hit with 6 seconds of Exhaustion. Just so you'd know.

What? Do you even play Mirage yourself? Exhaustion only gets triggered when you break out of a cc.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I predicted that Mirage would suffer a crippling nerf.. just as Chronomancer did , PU.... condition builds relying on clone death.... Glamour builds.

I was right.

Every class will receive nerfs in the future. It's not that hard to predict.

On another note, the EM nerf just means that there is a heavy incentive to dodge the cc before it hits you rather than after. Which, of course, is how it should have been at the start.

Either way, dodging while cc'd shouldn't exist and neither should a stunbreak on dodge. I also do not like the exhaustion mechanic. Instead, I would rather just remove the stunbreak on dodge portion of EM, keep the cleanse, and add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills. Dodging while cc'd should be removed as well.

Wait a second dude are you suggesting that he... dodge the attack? I was under the impression that purposefully eating the CC and then stunbreaking with EM was the 2000IQ way to go.

On a serious note though, everyone knows Mirage Cloak mechanic itself is the problem.

Except OP, apparently.

No Mirage Cloak is not the problem. It is not even the reason a few Mirage specs are op. Ppl complaining about that just wanna delete Mirage from the game and use their time to complain in forums instead just l2p vs them.Mirage will be fine when they finally double the cd of illusionary ambush and axe 3, give staff only one phantasm, same as for the greatsword trait (only one phantasm and give some other boni for that), lower the condi application (icd on ineptitude, slight nerf of staff, axe, scepter ambushskills from mesmer and clones). This has to go hand in hand with a lot of nerfs of other classes who are as equaly broken as condi/hybrid Mirage and even need less braincells to play. A bad Condimirage is still an easier kill than a bad Meditationguard for example.

[jportell.2197]

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

[Vieux P.1238]

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

THAT IS A LIE!oh................no....your right..my bad

[jportell.2197]

@bravan.3876 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:it just feels like people don't even understand mesmer?

what "spam buttons for conditions"? lol what? You can't spam buttons for conditions and get kills, not on higher elo. You need to combo properly even with condi mirage and its much harder than power one cus you actually need illusions and have lower range and even then its CONDI, they have time to react to cleanse it.

Elusive mind mesmers dont have "spam buttons for condi" and never did, if you thought so then that's your fault for being bad?

The point is that EM already wasn't meta regardless of what metabattle says and they nerfed it again which means their source of information regarding balance is bad. I was just matched in a game with people 250 rating below me and the enemy mesmer had the exact copy build from metabattle which is garbage and he couldnt do anything against me so i can see how against worse enemies the trait was maybe good but thats a case of l2p not of the trait being too strong. 3 sex exhaustion was already bad and super punishable

Powermes easier than condi/hybrid? That made my day!

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Just dodge the cc before it hits you and you don't incur exhaustion.

Sigh..another-one who does'nt know how mirage exhaustion & dodge & how it all works to the EM trait. How not surprising..hurgh.. :expressionless:FYI: cuz you dint take the time to play a mirage build or at least find out how it works. When you dodge traited on EM, you automatically get hit with 6 seconds of Exhaustion. Just so you'd know.

What? Do you even play Mirage yourself? Exhaustion only gets triggered when you break out of a cc.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I predicted that Mirage would suffer a crippling nerf.. just as Chronomancer did , PU.... condition builds relying on clone death.... Glamour builds.

I was right.

Every class will receive nerfs in the future. It's not that hard to predict.

On another note, the EM nerf just means that there is a heavy incentive to dodge the cc before it hits you rather than after. Which, of course, is how it should have been at the start.

Either way, dodging while cc'd shouldn't exist and neither should a stunbreak on dodge. I also do not like the exhaustion mechanic. Instead, I would rather just remove the stunbreak on dodge portion of EM, keep the cleanse, and add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills. Dodging while cc'd should be removed as well.

Wait a second dude are you suggesting that he... dodge the attack? I was under the impression that purposefully eating the CC and then stunbreaking with EM was the 2000IQ way to go.

On a serious note though, everyone knows Mirage Cloak mechanic itself is the problem.

Except OP, apparently.

No Mirage Cloak is not the problem. It is not even the reason a few Mirage specs are op. Ppl complaining about that just wanna delete Mirage from the game and use their time to complain in forums instead just l2p vs them.Mirage will be fine when they finally double the cd of illusionary ambush and axe 3, give staff only one phantasm, same as for the greatsword trait (only one phantasm and give some other boni for that), lower the condi application (icd on ineptitude, slight nerf of staff, axe, scepter ambushskills from mesmer and clones). This has to go hand in hand with a lot of nerfs of other classes who are as equaly broken as condi/hybrid Mirage and even need less braincells to play. A bad Condimirage is still an easier kill than a bad Meditationguard for example.

Mesmers would LOVE. A rework of the staff Phantasm. The GS trait is never used so noone would notice. Double the CD of illusionary ambush? Sure as long as you double the CD of Corona burst, feather foot Grace, all guard meditations, and necro axe two.

Mesmer axe 3 has already seen a CD increase.

Scepter ambush skills apply 2s max of their respective conditions. Staff Condi ambush has already been nerfed. Then nerfed again

Ineptitude has a 3s ICD. If they make the CD any longer they need to give us a trait back where all shatters cause confusion.

I've said it before I'll say it again. Mirage can only really spam confusion and torment. Unless they use staff which most don't.

This seriously reminds me of release when everyone complained about Mesmer.

The class was deleted from the meta almost all the way to the release of HOT.

Y'all ridiculous

[meri.9187]

@bravan.3876 said:A bad Condimirage is still an easier kill than a bad Meditationguard for example.

No. No it's not. Lmao

[incisorr.9502]

ppl crying about mirage cloak conveniently don't want to mention the part where mirage cloak's iframe lasts less than normal dodges iframe while at it too

lol at some guy asking for nerf on mirage cloak on scepter lmao , its already 2 sec cd conditions and it's incredibly bad. Scep has the worst mirage cloak condi application and its only okay for the physical dmg it does which is still low

the people that are asking for mesmer nerfs look so uninformed its almost painful, lol at asking for staff phantasm nerf too when the phantasms are already garbage for how staff works (its a condi build item cus of the auto attack and cus the physical dmg is actually low and the weapon is overall quite slow too but the phantasm is a physical dmg-tasm not a condi one..) and playing with staff already means you're sacrificing so much as a mesmer just to get a bit more tankiness

[witcher.3197]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

You're wrong. EM was godlike and the only option ever to be used at higher tier.

[Math.5123]

@incisorr.9502 said:ppl crying about mirage cloak conveniently don't want to mention the part where mirage cloak's iframe lasts less than normal dodges iframe while at it too

No it doesn't, a normal dodge is .75 seconds. MC is one second, they buffed it after PoF beta. Nice try though.

[Megametzler.5729]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@incisorr.9502 said:ppl crying about mirage cloak conveniently don't want to mention the part where mirage cloak's iframe lasts less than normal dodges iframe while at it too

No it doesn't, a normal dodge is .75 seconds. MC is one second, they buffed it after PoF beta. Nice try though.

This is awesome. Made my day, thanks! :lol:

€: Just checked because I thought I knew that accountname from one of my games. He is in top100 and does not know the basics of his spec. That's how much mirage carries...

@witcher.3197 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

You're wrong. EM was godlike and the only option ever to be used at higher tier.

Not really, IH was already used before for insane additional condi pressure. Don't know whether it was a majority, but that will have changed now anyways to 100%. Even some mirage players just had not realised yet that you could avoid any burst with mirage cloak by dodging while stunned, even without breaking it.

[witcher.3197]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

You're wrong. EM was godlike and the only option ever to be used at higher tier.

Not really, IH was already used before for insane additional condi pressure. Don't know whether it was a majority, but that will have changed now anyways to 100%. Even some mirage players just had not realised yet that you could avoid any burst with mirage cloak by dodging while stunned, even without breaking it.

Really don't care about what some people used in elohell or what basic mirage knowledge they lacked tbh ^^

[Megametzler.5729]

@witcher.3197 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

You're wrong. EM was godlike and the only option ever to be used at higher tier.

Not really, IH was already used before for insane additional condi pressure. Don't know whether it was a majority, but that will have changed now anyways to 100%. Even some mirage players just had not realised yet that you could avoid any burst with mirage cloak by dodging while stunned, even without breaking it.

Really don't care about what some people used in elohell or what basic mirage knowledge they lacked tbh ^^

You do know Misha used IH and not EM, right? :wink: But of course, I only know what people used in elohell...

[shadowpass.4236]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@incisorr.9502 said:ppl crying about mirage cloak conveniently don't want to mention the part where mirage cloak's iframe lasts less than normal dodges iframe while at it too

No it doesn't, a normal dodge is .75 seconds. MC is one second, they buffed it after PoF beta. Nice try though.

€: Just checked because I thought I knew that accountname from one of my games. He is in top100 and does not know the basics of his spec. That's how much mirage carries...

The OP of this thread doesn't even know how Elusive Mind works. He was actually completely incorrect about EVERY aspect of the trait and tried to correct other people using a made-up version in his head.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

@jportell.2197 said:

@"FtoPScrub.5476" said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

You lack reading comprehension.

"nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status."

Not surprised, though. Like I said mirage mains somehow ignore whats in front of their eyes so they can be the victim.

[jportell.2197]

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

You lack reading comprehension.

"nothing beats Mirage mains

at somehow being the victim despite meta status.

"

Not surprised, though. Like I said mirage mains somehow ignore whats in front of their eyes so they can be the victim.Sorry saw it while I was driving. Either way in a 1v1 spellbreaker beats almost everything

[shadowpass.4236]

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

You lack reading comprehension.

"nothing beats Mirage mains

at somehow being the victim despite meta status.

"

Not surprised, though. Like I said mirage mains somehow ignore whats in front of their eyes so they can be the victim.Sorry saw it while I was driving. Either way in a 1v1 spellbreaker beats almost everything

No, Spellbreakers lose most 1v1 matchups.

[Susy.7529]

No, I'm not happy, I will be happy when Mesmers (+ its specs) will be deep buried in the ground, so much that noone will ever play it in a match anymore. That, that is when I will be happy.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

I’m very happy. EM was carrying mediocre Mirage players so hard.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@witcher.3197 said:

@"Imperadordf.2687" said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't every competent player using IH because like, EM was bad? I thought EM meta died after Sword/Torch + Staff build got nerfed.

You're wrong. EM was godlike and the only option ever to be used at higher tier.

loll"godlike"

[Reh.5986]

Just drop the stun entirely. We have stun breaks already. 6 seconds makes it a death sentence with all the classes that can 1 shot a power mes from 1500+. Mis-time a dodge on a stealthed thief/mes or a barely rendering ranger pet and you're probably screwed.

Honestly, mirage grandmasters kind of suck now unless you're spamming clones and condi.

[Crab Fear.1624]

NOPEMirage cloak needs the nerf. It's like trying to describe color to a blind person when discussing mesmer with the mains or devs.

The thief devs know whats up. Let them make the nerfs and see how everyone gets by next season

[mortrialus.3062]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

You lack reading comprehension.

"nothing beats Mirage mains

at somehow being the victim despite meta status.

"

Not surprised, though. Like I said mirage mains somehow ignore whats in front of their eyes so they can be the victim.Sorry saw it while I was driving. Either way in a 1v1 spellbreaker beats almost everything

No, Spellbreakers lose most 1v1 matchups.

The last serious paid tournament I watched which had both Team USA and Rank 55 every time condi-mirage and spellbreaker got in a 1v1 with each other it stalled out completely for the entire match unless one of them received a plus. This happened across multiple teams throughout multiple levels of the tournament ladder.

[shadowpass.4236]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:IH is more monkey than EM and should've been the one to get the nerf. And I find it funny how out of every single class in the game, nothing beats Mirage mains at somehow being the victim despite meta status. FB gets a nerf just about every patch and you don't see anywhere near the level of kitten.

Nothing beats mirage?

1v1 Spellbreaker beats most mirage builds everytime.

You lack reading comprehension.

"nothing beats Mirage mains

at somehow being the victim despite meta status.

"

Not surprised, though. Like I said mirage mains somehow ignore whats in front of their eyes so they can be the victim.Sorry saw it while I was driving. Either way in a 1v1 spellbreaker beats almost everything

No, Spellbreakers lose most 1v1 matchups.

The last serious paid tournament I watched which had both Team USA and Rank 55 every time condi-mirage and spellbreaker got in a 1v1 with each other it stalled out completely for the entire match unless one of them received a plus. This happened across multiple teams throughout multiple levels of the tournament ladder.

Pretty sure those tournaments were a few months ago pre nerfs.

Either way:

1. Ranger should beat warrior
2. Holo vs warrior is skill based but holo should win
3. Warrior vs mes is skill based, can go either way
4. Mesmer doesn't have very good 1v1 matchups at top end but for a roamer, their 1v1 ability is very high

[mortrialus.3062]

Please change Elusive Mind into this:

"Dodging removes 1 condition. Mirage Cloak allows the Mirage to run at full speed while strafing or backpedaling while active."

[FaboBabo.3581]

Gosh just remove the trait.Why are most of u guys so fanatic about the stun/cleanse - part.We can entirely scrap it and make a completely new Trait.

I dont want another Stunbreak, and i dont NEED another cleanse.While the cleanse part could potentially stay, just do something new for the rest.

• Gain boons
• restore endurance
• restore health
• grant barrier

There are probably at least 5+ more ideas which arent multifaceted Stunbreaks.

Personal preference would beMC grants Fury and Might2 sec Fury2 Stacks Might - long duration

without boon durartion i'll bet prestacking 8 Stacks of Might with it would be ok , so roughly 15-20 seconds.