Winds of Disenchantment nerf was heavy-handed and unnecessary

[SWI.4127]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this wasn't the nerf it needed. remove the boonstrip instead. that way theres no benefit to stacking winds and it retains its area denial value.

If it didn't boonstrip it would be nearly useless.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[binidj.5734]

This was an uncharacteristically heavy-handed nerf that may fix an issue in large zergs but seems thoroughly unnecessary in smaller squads, groups and in SPvP. Frankly the impact of a Spellbreaker pales into insignificance when faced with multiple Scourges charging toward you with overlapping fields that move with them!

[sephiroth.4217]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Necessary. And with Scourge being less threatening than it previously was, maybe we'll see a return of the push meta. Or at least I sure hope. Pirate ship needs to die.

Wouldn't that be a dream

those fights can be funny with the right commentary though... "dont you dare brother, dont you dare come close to me brother, we got a wall of AoE for you to cross brother, don't you push on us brother, we just blobbed 1 guy who was watching, that's what we'll do you to if you cross our AoE brother, don't come across that line brother, yeah you better run off and defend SM brother, good call brother we woulda wrecked you"

Sort of like this GIF, the dogs being the zergs and the fence being the AoE.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this wasn't the nerf it needed. remove the boonstrip instead. that way theres no benefit to stacking winds and it retains its area denial value.

If it didn't boonstrip it would be nearly useless.

preventing boons would still be strong

[Simonoly.4352]

This is the nerf to WoD that I was expecting to see as the duration was a bit crazy for something on a 90 second cooldown. Although I was thinking more along the lines of taking it down to 7 seconds first.

[Arlette.9684]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Necessary. And with Scourge being less threatening than it previously was, maybe we'll see a return of the push meta. Or at least I sure hope. Pirate ship needs to die.

Wouldn't that be a dream

those fights can be funny with the right commentary though... "dont you dare brother, dont you dare come close to me brother, we got a wall of AoE for you to cross brother, don't you push on us brother, we just blobbed 1 guy who was watching, that's what we'll do you to if you cross our AoE brother, don't come across that line brother, yeah you better run off and defend SM brother, good call brother we woulda wrecked you"

Sort of like this GIF, the dogs being the zergs and the fence being the AoE.

You sir, just made my day with that GIF :smiley:

[Baldrick.8967]

Was a long time coming.

Now if they could only fix so many other broken skills that hit for 14k and 19k out of stealth with effectively no cooldown (one was overload..)...not holding my breath!

[DeadlySynz.3471]

It's at 5 seconds now? Still 5 seconds too long; it needs to be outright removed, or at the very least nerfed to the point it no longer makes sense to use.

Put it this way, look how many times scourge shades got hit.... still plenty of room to nerf winds into the ground. If it's still blocking projectiles, that needs to go next.

[SWI.4127]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@SWI.4127 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this wasn't the nerf it needed. remove the boonstrip instead. that way theres no benefit to stacking winds and it retains its area denial value.

If it didn't boonstrip it would be nearly useless.

preventing boons would still be strong

It would be okay, but if the group already has stab, then it's way weaker.

[CrimsonRise.7650]

It probably just needed the duration nerf. It should pulse for the first second too, because it is avoidable, as it only lasts 5s, even if you chain them. Also FYI, you should have plenty of scourges already, the majority should run scepter, not staff.

[Thelgar.7214]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@SWI.4127 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this wasn't the nerf it needed. remove the boonstrip instead. that way theres no benefit to stacking winds and it retains its area denial value.

If it didn't boonstrip it would be nearly useless.

preventing boons would still be strong

No, that would be garbage. Area denial would only occur before the engagement. We'd have bubble humping on top of bridge humping.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Necessary. And with Scourge being less threatening than it previously was, maybe we'll see a return of the push meta. Or at least I sure hope. Pirate ship needs to die.

What evidence do you have that Scourge is less threatening now? They received nerfs, sure, but they are still the most prominent DPS component of a zerg. After the Ele Meteor Shower debacle got rectified, there aren't any more Eles in the zerg now than there was 3 months ago... Same applies to Heralds (despite recent rework) and to Mesmers who are usually only included if the Commander is a fan of portal bombs. DPS Thief, Rangers, Engineers and Guardians remain excluded.

So while Scourge was nerfed and they do less damage now than before, they are still what is doing the majority of the killing.

[Israel.7056]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:What evidence do you have that Scourge is less threatening now?

You asking for dps meters? How does one quantify "threatening?"

[Shroud.2307]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Necessary. And with Scourge being less threatening than it previously was, maybe we'll see a return of the push meta. Or at least I sure hope. Pirate ship needs to die.

What evidence do you have that Scourge is less threatening now?

So while Scourge was nerfed and they do less damage now than before, they are still what is doing the majority of the killing.

= Less threatening.

I am fully aware that they are the major source of damage in a zerg. However, they are also mostly hybrids now. When condition builds were meta for Scourge, and prior to all the nerfs to Shades, traits, etc., they were much worse. So much so, pushing wasn't often an option.

Pushing is still risky but after the nerf to bubbles and Scourges, it should be much easier. Just going to have to watch out for Reapers now.

[SoV.5139]

Most WvW centric nerfs ahem -cough balance adjustments cough- since PoF put us on the path to a new version of the old pirate ship META. This one is no exception.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Thelgar.7214 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@SWI.4127 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this wasn't the nerf it needed. remove the boonstrip instead. that way theres no benefit to stacking winds and it retains its area denial value.

If it didn't boonstrip it would be nearly useless.

preventing boons would still be strong

No, that would be garbage. Area denial would only occur before the engagement. We'd have bubble humping on top of bridge humping.

unless bubbles are being stacked the boonrip isn't even the strongest part of the skill lol. you get what, 2 maybe 3 boons before someone dodges out of it? grats that's equivalent to a necro axe 3. what do you mean area denial before the engagement?

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[HandsomeGentleman.9576]

This is a problem with the whole Anet balance team in general.When they see something that needs a nerf, they don't just nerf it...they GUT it. They don't seem to do any sort of incremental changes, but instead hit things so hard that they usually become unpicked as a skill or trait.Bubble will still probably be used in groups but man...what a hit.

[Novahh.7426]

Where did I leave that salt packet

[Miko.4158]

60% nerf, for a non damage skill? want to avoid wod completely don't rely on boons.a complete joke, and proves the balance team don't play the game.assuming, they want a balance of professions and roles (unless every skill /skill set to be the same)they should be paid on profession diversity based on representation in game modehungry month for them

[solemn.9670]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:What evidence do you have that Scourge is less threatening now? They received nerfs, sure, but they are still the most prominent DPS component of a zerg. After the Ele Meteor Shower debacle got rectified, there aren't any more Eles in the zerg now than there was 3 months ago... Same applies to Heralds (despite recent rework) and to Mesmers who are usually only included if the Commander is a fan of portal bombs. DPS Thief, Rangers, Engineers and Guardians remain excluded.

So while Scourge was nerfed and they do less damage now than before, they are still what is doing the majority of the killing.

I don't mean to derail the conversation at all but for the record, if we assume that the player is highly competent, weaver DPS build out-survives and out-DPS' a scourge every single time, usually by a relatively large margin like 20% to 25% assuming the scourge is competent as well (otherwise it would be upwards of 30%). If you don't believe me I invite anyone to come watch my damage on AR or NSP, or search 'solemn gw2' on youtube. If you can top my damage on scourge I'll listen but otherwise I don't know why people act like scourge is top damage. Weaver is undeniably top dog for damage right now, the only people who can out-dps me are other weavers and I still survive longer than most full ministrel firebrands because I can squirrel/stunbreak/mobility skill almost all of the time. If a necro is stuck in a bad position and on cooldown it's just straight up done for, but a weaver who knows his rotations can usually find a way out of anything. We just need more people who can play the class effectively lol 5/10 people I see on weaver have low damage and die really fast.

Sorry just wanted to clear that up, continue.

edit: inb4 "weaver can't boon-rip" yeah that's still a necro job, please keep it up :p still need folks to fill the boon-corrupt role on necro, not saying everyone should switch over.edit2: ok I guess you could technically say they're the most prominent DPS component of a zerg since necro is much easier to play and therefore you can get more consistent DPS from a large number of people with it... but it's still not optimal imo

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Necessary. And with Scourge being less threatening than it previously was, maybe we'll see a return of the push meta. Or at least I sure hope. Pirate ship needs to die.

What evidence do you have that Scourge is less threatening now?

So while Scourge was nerfed and they do less damage now than before, they are still what is doing the majority of the killing.

= Less threatening.

I am fully aware that they are the major source of damage in a zerg. However, they are also mostly hybrids now. When condition builds were meta for Scourge, and prior to all the nerfs to Shades, traits, etc., they were much worse. So much so, pushing wasn't often an option.

Pushing is still risky but after the nerf to bubbles and Scourges, it should be much easier. Just going to have to watch out for Reapers now.

Which is kind of funny, considering you know which of the push classes counters reaper?

Warrior.

All this whining seems rather unnecessary. Pushing should be a slightly stronger strat than it was previously which the warrior directly benefits from with its stances.

I still think Pirate Ship will remain dominant for as long as boons are as spammable as they are and for as long as rev hammer 2/4/5 deal as much damage as they do.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[SkyShroud.2865]

I don't think people gonna stand in your wind for 10s. The most damaging nerf is the initial boonstripping removed which I believe they should make up for it via other means like lower cd.