Increase drop rate of symbols

[Dante.1763]

@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Good to see the fed o matics back on sale again, blatantly still mis-selling it by stating it provides a chance to salvage upgrades.. it does not it only salvages mats and a chance of symbols/runes.. these are not upgrades and has been stated previously when they have pushed them out on sale since the changes to runes and sigils. It is simply poor form ANET and outright lies.ANET should be refunding everyone that has purchased these, especially since the changes.

They

do

have a chance to salvage upgrades, just as they are guaranteed to salvage the gear. Salvage means to break down; salvage does not mean recover or output/results.

They do not have a chance to recover upgrades, that is false.. that has been taken away from it.. it only has a chance to salvage components including the charms/symbols... but yes they are still sold stating they offer the same chances as before-- but it is blatantly false.I salvage absolutely everything that I do not need and since the change not a single sigil or rune has been salvaged from any armour or weapon, thousands of salvages!.. it is simply a lie to say there is still a chance and is therefore very much mis-selling and a refund offered to any player that has been mislead by this poor practice.The only way to salvage runes or sigils is by BLT kits or using extractors.

That's right, the salvage-o-matics do not recover upgrades. It blatantly states

salvaging

upgrades and not recovering upgrades. Only the BLT kits say they recover upgrades.

Yup, such a lovely change anet made to the game, not what i paid for so if i wanted a refund i for sure at least /should/ be able to get one.This whole update and change was a mess, and IMO an idiotic one.

"Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 25% chance of rarer materials. 80% chance of recovering upgrades from items.

Cost per use: 60 Copper coin"

From the wiki as of the time of this post.

Thats what i paid for. That is what i should still have.

Perhaps the next time anet does something like this, they shouldnt change the functionality of items paid for with RL money, as mine where, on top of that forcing players into the store as this patch did, shows me a shift in anets mindset, and i will be leery of buying gems should these changes continue, and if they do, ill eventually leave.

[DaFishBob.6518]

@Dante.1763 said:

@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Good to see the fed o matics back on sale again, blatantly still mis-selling it by stating it provides a chance to salvage upgrades.. it does not it only salvages mats and a chance of symbols/runes.. these are not upgrades and has been stated previously when they have pushed them out on sale since the changes to runes and sigils. It is simply poor form ANET and outright lies.ANET should be refunding everyone that has purchased these, especially since the changes.

They

do

have a chance to salvage upgrades, just as they are guaranteed to salvage the gear. Salvage means to break down; salvage does not mean recover or output/results.

They do not have a chance to recover upgrades, that is false.. that has been taken away from it.. it only has a chance to salvage components including the charms/symbols... but yes they are still sold stating they offer the same chances as before-- but it is blatantly false.I salvage absolutely everything that I do not need and since the change not a single sigil or rune has been salvaged from any armour or weapon, thousands of salvages!.. it is simply a lie to say there is still a chance and is therefore very much mis-selling and a refund offered to any player that has been mislead by this poor practice.The only way to salvage runes or sigils is by BLT kits or using extractors.

That's right, the salvage-o-matics do not recover upgrades. It blatantly states

salvaging

upgrades and not recovering upgrades. Only the BLT kits say they recover upgrades.

Yup, such a lovely change anet made to the game, not what i paid for so if i wanted a refund i for sure at least /should/ be able to get one.This whole update and change was a mess, and IMO an idiotic one.

"Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 25% chance of rarer materials. 80% chance of recovering upgrades from items.

Cost per use: 60 Copper coin"

From the wiki as of the time of this post.

Thats what i paid for. That is what i should still have.

Perhaps the next time anet does something like this, they shouldnt change the functionality of items paid for with RL money, as mine where, on top of that forcing players into the store as this patch did, shows me a shift in anets mindset, and i will be leery of buying gems should these changes continue, and if they do, ill eventually leave.

And that's a proper grievance. Not the recently sold salvage-o-matics after all these term changes dropped.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Dante.1763 said:

@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Good to see the fed o matics back on sale again, blatantly still mis-selling it by stating it provides a chance to salvage upgrades.. it does not it only salvages mats and a chance of symbols/runes.. these are not upgrades and has been stated previously when they have pushed them out on sale since the changes to runes and sigils. It is simply poor form ANET and outright lies.ANET should be refunding everyone that has purchased these, especially since the changes.

They

do

have a chance to salvage upgrades, just as they are guaranteed to salvage the gear. Salvage means to break down; salvage does not mean recover or output/results.

They do not have a chance to recover upgrades, that is false.. that has been taken away from it.. it only has a chance to salvage components including the charms/symbols... but yes they are still sold stating they offer the same chances as before-- but it is blatantly false.I salvage absolutely everything that I do not need and since the change not a single sigil or rune has been salvaged from any armour or weapon, thousands of salvages!.. it is simply a lie to say there is still a chance and is therefore very much mis-selling and a refund offered to any player that has been mislead by this poor practice.The only way to salvage runes or sigils is by BLT kits or using extractors.

That's right, the salvage-o-matics do not recover upgrades. It blatantly states

salvaging

upgrades and not recovering upgrades. Only the BLT kits say they recover upgrades.

Yup, such a lovely change anet made to the game, not what i paid for so if i wanted a refund i for sure at least /should/ be able to get one.This whole update and change was a mess, and IMO an idiotic one.

"Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 25% chance of rarer materials. 80% chance of recovering upgrades from items.

Cost per use: 60 Copper coin"

From the wiki as of the time of this post.

Thats what i paid for. That is what i should still have.

Perhaps the next time anet does something like this, they shouldnt change the functionality of items paid for with RL money, as mine where, on top of that forcing players into the store as this patch did, shows me a shift in anets mindset, and i will be leery of buying gems should these changes continue, and if they do, ill eventually leave.

The swing to push gemstore items inline with in game changes (BLS kits/extractors )Creating changes that could be be viewed as a way to push players to buy gems in order to buy resources that are allowed to become grossly inflated on the TP by way of purposefully starving supply of components (Sigil of Null).Unnecessary changes to salvaging and blatantly mis selling gemstore items whilst having already altered it's functionality - -refunds should definitely be offered to all players that have purchased the copper and silver feds prior to and after the changes because its is just poor form to blatantly offer the item under false pretence.Introduce ridiculous, time consuming crafting recipes and then creating absurdly low odds to obtain the required charms and symbols in the numbers required unless your prepared to now go to the TP and buy (ding gems sales to convert again or sink more of your in game resource meaning more endless farming of istan, sw etc to replenish it). Worse still make unnecessary changes to long term items such as Winter's Presence) forcing players who had spent many hours and a lot of outlay previously only to find the items they had been collecting up were now useless and they would need to start over spending more time and coin on top of what they already had... and pray the RNG gods shine on them long enough to get enough charms/symbols or be forced to now buy those as well.... their was no need to cull the use of the sigils and runes all they had to do was alter the forge recipe accordingly, but that was not the aim of the exercise imo.Then there was the strange emergence of little league marketing collaborations to try and drum up new business all of a sudden and then wash their hands of it when it turned into a complete and utter mess (KFT).The latest beetle racing collaboration.. did anyone get the newsletter they apparently signed up for?Then of course there is the change to Amazon servers... cost reduction ?Slow down and delays in LS cadence...Strange decision to let a long serving dev go, for what amounted to minor comments in comparison when trying to stick up for his co-worker.. yes JP absolutely deserved what she got, but PF.. that was strange, or perhaps was it an opportunity to reduce overhead...I didn't consider that at the time, but it seems to fit strangely well now, again imo.I have been in business a long time and have seen many things both good and bad happen along the way and to me this shift in tact is not driven by player request, as some seem to make out (inventory clutter pfft) it feels very much bean counter driven and that is a bad sign imo. I have seen similar things happen in other MMO's, make changes behind the scenes, begin to milk the playerbase for as long as possible, delays, delays, more changes.. then maintenance mode.. then the lights begin to flicker and fade.Dramatic yes, but to me it is not beyond the realm of possibility that we are seeing the first signs of cracks in the machine - I hope I am way off the mark, but to me it feels like something is amiss and ANET are throwing out band aids to try and cover the cracks.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Here's what the Copper-fed says:

"Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 10% chance of rarer materials. 20% chance of salvaging upgrades. Requires 3 copper per use."

The Silver-fed's page in the Wiki has yet to be updated, maybe because it's not available right now(yet) in the Gem Store.

As far as refunds go, like other items that changed, you would only get a refund if purchased within a short period of time before the change.

[Dante.1763]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Here's what the Copper-fed says:

"Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 10% chance of rarer materials. 20% chance of salvaging upgrades. Requires 3 copper per use."

The Silver-fed's page in the Wiki has yet to be updated, maybe because it's not available right now(yet) in the Gem Store.

As far as refunds go, like other items that changed, you would only get a refund if purchased within a short period of time before the change.

Yet regardless, thats not the item i purchased and paid for. That item is an entirely different item, and i probably wouldnt have gotten it(the silver fed at the very least) had it not been able to "recover" the runes.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, if you bought it within 30 days of the change, contact the CS Team for a refund of Gems. Otherwise, you got the intended use from the item you purchased.

Good luck.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Here's what the Copper-fed says:

"Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 10% chance of rarer materials. 20% chance of salvaging upgrades. Requires 3 copper per use."

The Silver-fed's page in the Wiki has yet to be updated, maybe because it's not available right now(yet) in the Gem Store.

As far as refunds go, like other items that changed, you would only get a refund if purchased within a short period of time before the change.

They do not recover the upgrades.. upgrades are the runes/sigils. No matter how much you argue it Inc.The Feds simply do not offer the ability to recover upgrades any longer.. they only offer the chance to recover mats and components used to craft new upgrades.. that is not the same and is blatant mis-selling of the item and is not what players have bought the items for since the change or prior to it. It is simply bad practice to sell this under such false pretence.Just like the mystic forge salvage kits no longer offer the chance to salvage upgrades.. which is essentially the same as the silver fed except with a slightly higher salvage cost per click.The only way to salvage upgrades now is via gemstore BLS kits or extractors. I would even hazard a guess the getting these items from daily login rewards have had there drop rates nerfed accordingly. Why also have the prices of extractors been reduced in the gemstore to entice players to buy in large qty, yet to buy them from the BL trader the still cost 3 BL tokens or 3 key purchases .. its a steer to buy gems is all or sink in game resources in chunks to then push future gem sales.The last 3-6 months has seen a seismic shift in this game, alongside a whole batch of bad press issues - I stand by my notion that something seems to be up and things like LS are being pushed back in order to push through fixes to things that were never broken in an effort to band aid over the cracks and try to meets bean counter demands.When "the game is dying" threads come up in any MMO especially GW2 I have always aired on the side of it does not matter as long as we are still having fun.. but lately for me and others I known in game, the fun is being sucked out as they push to use anything and everything to steer players to the gemstore to purchase items or buy gems in order to buy items at grossly inflated TP prices.My opinion.. the armor/sup sigil of null issue backfired as players pushed back on it and left it to the whales to feed the few so the shift was aimed much wider and I think that too is causing a backlash. Players like me used to spend on gems to buy the fluff in the gemstore every month.. but since being made to feel second class with the KFT debacle and especially the superior sigil malarkey, I have not spent a dime and refuse to any longer while ANET continue with this shift in tact.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I've never said they recover upgrades; only that they have a chance to salvage upgrades bestowing Lucent Motes and/or Charms/Symbols.Don't confuse the term 'salvage' (which means to break down) with 'recover' (which means to, in this case, obtain).

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I've never said they recover upgrades; only that they have a chance to salvage upgrades bestowing Lucent Motes and/or Charms/Symbols.Don't confuse the term 'salvage' (which means to break down) with 'recover' (which means to, in this case, obtain).

That is simply just another example of ANET playing with words.. it reads 80% chance to salvage upgrades, which to many will mean its a chance to salvage the upgrade from the item, not break the upgrade down.. it is blatantly mis representing the items use and does not escape the fact that many players purchased these items to have the opportunity to save the upgrade both prior to and following the changes when placed front centre on sale. It is a disgraceful bait and switch act imo.Yeah lets go out buy a product for its use then sit back while the company who manufacture it pop round while your asleep to change its use but carry on wording its description in such a way as to divert away from such changes rather than specifically highlighting it and offering those affected due recourse... It is simply terrabad business practice.

[Dante.1763]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, if you bought it within 30 days of the change, contact the CS Team for a refund of Gems. Otherwise, you got the intended use from the item you purchased.

Good luck.

Yes, i got the intended use of the item for a period of time, regardless, having the item changed much later after i purchased it is is shady as hell, and while i love that you defend ANET constantly and most of the time correctly, shady business practices like changing things purchased with real money should never be defended nor supported.

This is one of those areas where the law needs to catch up with the change of times much quicker than it is, game company's should not ever be allowed to alter purchases after the fact much like auto companies cant(they cant come take my truck and replace it with a similiar, but different model.).

[yann.1946]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, if you bought it within 30 days of the change, contact the CS Team for a refund of Gems. Otherwise, you got the intended use from the item you purchased.

Good luck.

Yes, i got the intended use of the item for a period of time, regardless, having the item changed much later after i purchased it is is shady as hell, and while i love that you defend ANET constantly and most of the time correctly, shady business practices like changing things purchased with real money should never be defended nor supported.

This is one of those areas where the law needs to catch up with the change of times much quicker than it is, game company's should not ever be allowed to alter purchases after the fact much like auto companies cant(they cant come take my truck and replace it with a similiar, but different model.).

While I understand you're sentiment you're statement also blocks any patch to the game

[Dante.1763]

@yann.1946 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, if you bought it within 30 days of the change, contact the CS Team for a refund of Gems. Otherwise, you got the intended use from the item you purchased.

Good luck.

Yes, i got the intended use of the item for a period of time, regardless, having the item changed much later after i purchased it is is shady as hell, and while i love that you defend ANET constantly and most of the time correctly, shady business practices like changing things purchased with real money should never be defended nor supported.

This is one of those areas where the law needs to catch up with the change of times much quicker than it is, game company's should not ever be allowed to alter purchases after the fact much like auto companies cant(they cant come take my truck and replace it with a similiar, but different model.).

While I understand you're sentiment you're statement also blocks any patch to the game

I could have worded it better i suppose, as that is not the case, nor what i was aiming to put across.

[yann.1946]

@Dante.1763 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, if you bought it within 30 days of the change, contact the CS Team for a refund of Gems. Otherwise, you got the intended use from the item you purchased.

Good luck.

Yes, i got the intended use of the item for a period of time, regardless, having the item changed much later after i purchased it is is shady as hell, and while i love that you defend ANET constantly and most of the time correctly, shady business practices like changing things purchased with real money should never be defended nor supported.

This is one of those areas where the law needs to catch up with the change of times much quicker than it is, game company's should not ever be allowed to alter purchases after the fact much like auto companies cant(they cant come take my truck and replace it with a similiar, but different model.).

While I understand you're sentiment you're statement also blocks any patch to the game

I could have worded it better i suppose, as that is not the case, nor what i was aiming to put across.

Sure but the question remains where do you draw the line then.

[Assic.2746]

I am strongly against increasing drop rates of anything after what happened to Resonating Slivers. You want ANet to increase drop rate because you currently need certain item. Once you have the item you will start deleting symbols from your inventory because it will turn into trash just like old runes. Terrible idea.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

We can discuee the change to the -fed kits and the drop rates all we want.

The change involved:

• the medicine of a boost to the economy to make some materials more valuable and create new salable materials.
• plus the sugar-coating of, "Lo, we have heard your pleas! Your inventory bags will no longer be cluttered by runes and sigils!"

It seems to me ANet is familiar with the old adage, "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go do."

With this change, ANet responded to a lot of complaints about useless runes/sigils, both in terms of bag clutter and boosting the desirability of at least some runes/sigils. They also: gave the economy a shot in the arm; made obtaining upgrades (likely) a bit more time-intensive (i.e., in farming gold to buy them or farming mats to make them); and made two gem store items more attractive. ANet is going to see this as a win. Don't expect anything to change unless the player-base reacts en masse. We're past the point where that is likely.

[Ashen.2907]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Well, if you bought it within 30 days of the change, contact the CS Team for a refund of Gems. Otherwise, you got the intended use from the item you purchased.

Good luck.

The intended use, in my case at least, was ongoing functionality as described at the time of purchase. It didnt have limited uses and so was infinite and/or permanent in intended use.

Sure ANet says subject to change or somethingn of the sort, but selling something for real money and then taking it back while keeping the buyers money is unethical and immoral.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Lol, don't shoot the messenger. I am ambivalent about the '-fed' salvage kits, as I only own the Copper-fed (which I rarely used). I am merely stating the policy that one will likely encounter.Feel free to post and defend your concerns, but it's likely to be no different than any of the other times items' utilization has changed to keep up with game changes.

Good luck.

[Ashen.2907]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Lol, don't shoot the messenger. I am ambivalent about the '-fed' salvage kits, as I only own the Copper-fed (which I rarely used). I am merely stating the policy that one will likely encounter.Feel free to post and defend your concerns, but it's likely to be no different than any of the other times items' utilization has changed to keep up with game changes.

Good luck.

Sorry, didn't mean that to come across as critical of you.

I agree that it is not likely to change. I do not expect that players expressing concerns in this sort of situation will lead to a change on ANet's part. Once an individual, or company, descends into moral and ethical bankruptcy only financial repercussions are likely to be a sufficient wake up call to change course.

[ArmoredVehicle.2849]

I like the change to runes/sigils and for the most part it's better than the old system, however I agree with OP that their drop rate is horrible. Just to get just 1 charm/symbol I have to salvage upwards of 12 runes if not more. The salvage rate needs to be increased.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

It may not be likely to change, but it's bizarre that Anet has apparently decided that new and low-level players must pay actual gold for minor upgrades that will be trashed as soon as a better piece of gear drops. I am going to miss kitting out my leveling characters with upgrades. (Haven't had to bite the bullet yet, in a stupendous piece of dumb luck foresight, I bought about 30 each of my favorites just before the change hit.)

[keenedge.9675]

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:It may not be likely to change, but it's bizarre that Anet has apparently decided that new and low-level players must pay actual gold for minor upgrades that will be trashed as soon as a better piece of gear drops. I am going to miss kitting out my leveling characters with upgrades.

most only go with power or conditions while leveling. Seals and crests are still available and better IMO

[phs.6089]

@Assic.2746 said:I am strongly against increasing drop rates of anything after what happened to Resonating Slivers. You want ANet to increase drop rate because you currently need certain item. Once you have the item you will start deleting symbols from your inventory because it will turn into trash just like old runes. Terrible idea.

There isn't much to do with resonate silver, while charms and symbols are a MUST to craft runes and sigils

[Rasimir.6239]

@phs.6089 said:

@Assic.2746 said:I am strongly against increasing drop rates of anything after what happened to

Resonating Slivers

. You want ANet to increase drop rate because you currently need certain item. Once you have the item you will start deleting symbols from your inventory because it will turn into trash just like old runes. Terrible idea.

There isn't much to do with resonate silver, while charms and symbols are a MUST to craft runes and sigilsJust as resonating slivers are a must to crafting guild hall decorations. They used to drop a lot less in the beginning, which caused a big outcry of them being too expensive and both leveling scribing and decorating guild halls shouldn't be that expensive ... but it was spreading the wealth to be had from selling slivers across the whole playerbase.

Once ANet increased the rate of availability of resonating slivers however, they quickly went from being worthwhile drops to trash, that at most annoys people when they have to destroy yet another useless stack of the things (which makes them no better than minor runes and sigils used to be).

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Healix.5819" said:The change was only meant to make it "easier" in the same way precursor crafting was - it's just an alternative.The difference is in case of legendary crafting it really was an alternative. This isn't. It would be if the salvage kist were working as before (or if there were two choices for each salvage tier - one with autosalvaging upgrades and one with extract option), but that's not what we've got. We don't have a non-gemshop option of getting runes/sigils the previous way

The new materials have the same problem as mystic coins. Everyone is getting them, and although the vast majority don't use them, they simply deposit and forget until it overflows.Yeah, sure, i remember when Anet claimed that Mystic coins are okay and the price spike is artificial and simply generated by players' hoarding, so it will eventually pass. Look how well did that work out.Yes, it is possible they are going to repeat that mistake again, but that wouldn't make it any less of a mistake.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:It seems much more likely that the goal was to restore the value of sigils and runes (minors have vendor trash for most the of the life of the game; majors have been at or near trash for a long time and especially since PoF and more so since Istan; and only a few superiors have ever had much value). This ultimately benefits everyone who doesn't swap their build every few hours: the stuff that drops ends up being worth somewhat more (which adds up over the long run).If so, it didn't work that way. The runes/sigils that were trash before, are still trash now. Those that costed a lot before cost even more now (well, apart from some changes due to meta shifts and the wintersday weapons with sigil of concentration crashing that market, but those had nothing to do with the rune crafting changes).

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:It's not going to get fixed if it's not broken.The very change we speak of is a counterargument to that.

[Despond.2174]

The intention was noble but the result just made everything more expensive and tedious. I think the right way would have been to have made sigils/runes salvageable to crafting components and leave it at that. You still extract runes/sigils to keep when you salvage an item and you have the added options of saving bag space to break it down again if you wish. Prices are crazy for some items that were always cheap.

To have a convenience we added a restriction, my suggested way removes the restriction while still keep the added convenience of clearing space of runes/sigils.