Ban ArcDPS and any third party program

[Cyninja.2954]

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory, what food I chose to eat, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private.

thats not my opinion, thats a FACT. no use for arguing about it.they can not see you inventory.everyone (!) can see your food.

So you say, yet they do. maybe not the specific 3rd party in question. I have not embarked into the world of 3rd party programs because I'm not interested in them.All I know, is that I've seen my gear linked in chat, without me linking it. And that's not okay.And yes everyone can see my food after I've chosen to use it.EDIT: But whether I chose to use food or not, is My problem. If you don't like it, kick me. But don't nag at me.

nobody can link your gear in chat.maybe, but this is ARC DPS discussion, not random hack that maybe exists discussion.

This.

Please keep these things separate. It is NOT allowed currently to use tools which allow visibility of this kind of information. Arc does not provide this type of information. Any tool which is currently allowed by Arenanet will not provide this information.

[Grogba.6204]

Unless they tell you - either directly or by pulling numbers from logs - you have no way to determine if a person uses Arc in the first place outside of elaborate guessing.

[Zelanard.5806]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory, what food I chose to eat, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private.

thats not my opinion, thats a FACT. no use for arguing about it.they can not see you inventory.everyone (!) can see your food.

So you say, yet they do. maybe not the specific 3rd party in question. I have not embarked into the world of 3rd party programs because I'm not interested in them.All I know, is that I've seen my gear linked in chat, without me linking it. And that's not okay.And yes everyone can see my food after I've chosen to use it.EDIT: But whether I chose to use food or not, is My problem. If you don't like it, kick me. But don't nag at me.

nobody can link your gear in chat.maybe, but this is ARC DPS discussion, not random hack that maybe exists discussion.

This.

Please keep these things separate. It is NOT allowed currently to use tools which allow visibility of this kind of information. Arc does not provide this type of information. Any tool which is currently allowed by Arenanet will not provide this information.

I still think it's invasive, I still think all third party software should be banned.But If I am talking about the wrong software in the wrong thread, then I apologize.I will not comment further in here, if that is the case.

[Zelanard.5806]

@Grogba.6204 said:Unless they tell you - either directly or by pulling numbers from logs - you have no way to determine if a person uses Arc in the first place outside of elaborate guessing.

I honestly don't care whether they use it or not. If they comment on my stats of any kind without asking me about it, I block them. Whether it's an old friend or a pug, i don't honestly care. My old friends know me well enough to know not to use it with me, because I've been very passionate about telling them how much I dislike it.

[Belorn.2659]

@Zychuu.7294 said:Sooner or later players who want to play the game they are presented with are expected to use, or at least be measured with 3rd party software being part of neither the game nor design of the content. And this is IMHO where many problems arise from. Groups of fundamentally different kind of players, one playing the game as ArenaNet intended clash with group of people who claim that they have understanding of the game so deep they have right to alter the experience to their needs and visions. Take a notice how I entirely skip claiming whether dps meters are 'good or bad' for the game as I find it irrelevant in this discussion. My point is only that they are not part of the design and the game we are playing.

People were complaining equally loudly in the past when people got measured by part of the design and the game that anet made. Not having the right amount of AP -> kicked. Not having the right class and weapon wielded -> kicked. Doing a mechanic wrong -> kicked. Not stacking -> kicked. Not pinging the right gear -> kicked. Not able to solo a mechanic designed for 5 players -> kicked. Do not want to download third-party voice communication -> kicked. Do not own a mic -> kicked.

In the past it went something like this. You say you want to join our pug raid group, fine, lets go to fractal nightmare CM and have you solo mama. This is the fine measurement tool that anet designed into the game allowed players to judge each. Sound fun? Sound designed and working as intended? Took for ever, allowed for no mistakes, punished non-us players heavily for daring to not live in the US, and it didn't even measure that greatly who would contribute to the success of the raid. I and I perceive the wast majority prefer to live in the current now with DPS tools. It provide a much greater experience in playing this game as intended by the developers.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory, what food I chose to eat, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private.

thats not my opinion, thats a FACT. no use for arguing about it.they can not see you inventory.everyone (!) can see your food.

So you say, yet they do. maybe not the specific 3rd party in question. I have not embarked into the world of 3rd party programs because I'm not interested in them.All I know, is that I've seen my gear linked in chat, without me linking it. And that's not okay.And yes everyone can see my food after I've chosen to use it.EDIT: But whether I chose to use food or not, is My problem. If you don't like it, kick me. But don't nag at me.

nobody can link your gear in chat.maybe, but this is ARC DPS discussion, not random hack that maybe exists discussion.

This.

Please keep these things separate. It is NOT allowed currently to use tools which allow visibility of this kind of information. Arc does not provide this type of information. Any tool which is currently allowed by Arenanet will not provide this information.

I still think it's invasive, I still think all third party software should be banned.But If I am talking about the wrong software in the wrong thread, then I apologize.I will not comment further in here, if that is the case.

Oh with that kind of invasive software (there was a damage meter in the past which was this invasive. is was discontinued and is not allowed currently), rest assured a lot of people would have issues, myself included. But yes, this is only about damage meters and the information those provide.

[Zelanard.5806]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory, what food I chose to eat, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private.

thats not my opinion, thats a FACT. no use for arguing about it.they can not see you inventory.everyone (!) can see your food.

So you say, yet they do. maybe not the specific 3rd party in question. I have not embarked into the world of 3rd party programs because I'm not interested in them.All I know, is that I've seen my gear linked in chat, without me linking it. And that's not okay.And yes everyone can see my food after I've chosen to use it.EDIT: But whether I chose to use food or not, is My problem. If you don't like it, kick me. But don't nag at me.

nobody can link your gear in chat.maybe, but this is ARC DPS discussion, not random hack that maybe exists discussion.

This.

Please keep these things separate. It is NOT allowed currently to use tools which allow visibility of this kind of information. Arc does not provide this type of information. Any tool which is currently allowed by Arenanet will not provide this information.

I still think it's invasive, I still think all third party software should be banned.But If I am talking about the wrong software in the wrong thread, then I apologize.I will not comment further in here, if that is the case.

Oh with that kind of invasive software (there was a damage meter in the past which was this invasive. is was discontinued and is not allowed currently), rest assured a lot of people would have issues, myself included. But yes, this is only about damage meters and the information those provide.

Thank you for seeing my point ^^' even though I wrote it in the wrong place xDI honestly thought that Was the damage meter, though...

[Zychuu.7294]

@Belorn.2659 said:

@Zychuu.7294 said:Sooner or later players who want to play the game they are presented with are expected to use, or at least be measured with 3rd party software being part of neither the game nor design of the content. And this is IMHO where many problems arise from. Groups of fundamentally different kind of players, one playing the game as ArenaNet intended clash with group of people who claim that they have understanding of the game so deep they have right to alter the experience to their needs and visions. Take a notice how I entirely skip claiming whether dps meters are 'good or bad' for the game as I find it irrelevant in this discussion. My point is only that they are not part of the design and the game we are playing.

People were complaining equally loudly in the past when people got measured by part of the design and the game that anet made. Not having the right amount of AP -> kicked. Not having the right class and weapon wielded -> kicked. Doing a mechanic wrong -> kicked. Not stacking -> kicked. Not pinging the right gear -> kicked. Not able to solo a mechanic designed for 5 players -> kicked. Do not want to download third-party voice communication -> kicked. Do not own a mic -> kicked.

In the past it went something like this.

You say you want to join our pug raid group, fine, lets go to fractal nightmare CM and have you solo mama

. This is the fine measurement tool that anet designed into the game allowed players to judge each. Sound fun? Sound designed and working as intended? Took for ever, allowed for no mistakes, punished non-us players heavily for daring to not live in the US, and it didn't even measure that greatly who would contribute to the success of the raid. I and I perceive the wast majority prefer to live in the current now with DPS tools. It provide a much greater experience in playing this game as intended by the developers.

You missed my point entirely. I haven't even tried to judge whether having dps meter is good or bad(even though I have my opinion on the subject). I just say that if it is 'good and needed' it should be added directly to the game, if it is deemed 'bad' then it can be banned anyway. Having to 'fix' the online game with wonky/shady 3rd party addons is never 'proper' way to go imho, and it doesn't matter whether the fix is needed or not.

[Odinens.5920]

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, ...

Quit reading after this statement. This is the reason people don't want it. That attitude right there.

I have used dps meters in other games, but don't feel the need to have one in this game. Do I care if people use it? No. Do I care if you generalize me for not wanting to use it? Yep. Tell you what, you give me any class and a week to learn its rotation, and the gear needed for whatever content you want, and I'll out dps you...I don't need a meter. You don't need a meter....you don't know me, and at this point I don't care to know you. Got nothing to hide. I just don't feel the need to use one.

The problem is that people like you automatically think people have something to hide by not wanting it.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned, that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny, and that those of us who prefer to benchmark the performance of the group are infected with that

dastardly

word -

Toxic

behaviour.

Rather than improve their own performance, or indeed, even face the possibility that they are not (yet) able to perform at the required level for whatever content they are attempting, they would force their team mates to carry them until the entire group falls apart.

I've used Arc DPS to benchmark my Revenant's damage, as the rotation is rather more complex than what I've previously been used to. I also use it in Fractals to check how me and my team mates are doing. It is an invaluable tool for self improvement, and for checking who in a group may not be suitable for whatever content that group is doing. On several occasions I have apologised for my own poor performance in T4 fractals and voluntarily left the group, because it has been obvious that I have been holding my group back, that I need more practice at lower tiers or with a practice group. That's the fair, right and responsible thing to do, in my opinion.

Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

Arc DPS isn't the problem; It's this attitude of forced inclusivity and the removal of any tool that may get in the way of this agenda.

I urge Arena Net and the player base at large not to give in to this, and instead to encourage the use of tools that allow players to see, with a degree of accuracy, how they actually measure up to their own and other's expectations.

Have you ever heard of the term "Privacy"? ARC DPS and programs like it, is toxic. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, It's fine that high end players kick low end players if they don't want them there. It's fine that they advertise for elite parties and that they kick people who do not live up to that standard.But invading peoples private space, is not okay. I urge you to consider how it feels for players who are here to play a game, to have their performance IN A GAME, measured, as though it was some kind of job.The toxicity of these kinds of software, is making people back away from the game, because we're here to have fun, not to work.Maybe it's time for the High end elitist's to accept that this is a game, you're supposed to play it, not work it. Even if you do work it, you cannot by any means demand the right to invade other peoples private space, doing so is not okay.

you damage IS NOT private. invalid argument,sry.

My gear, my inventory, what food I chose to eat, how well I perform that day due to whatever reason, yes, it is private.

thats not my opinion, thats a FACT. no use for arguing about it.they can not see you inventory.everyone (!) can see your food.

So you say, yet they do. maybe not the specific 3rd party in question. I have not embarked into the world of 3rd party programs because I'm not interested in them.All I know, is that I've seen my gear linked in chat, without me linking it. And that's not okay.And yes everyone can see my food after I've chosen to use it.EDIT: But whether I chose to use food or not, is My problem. If you don't like it, kick me. But don't nag at me.

nobody can link your gear in chat.maybe, but this is ARC DPS discussion, not random hack that maybe exists discussion.

This.

Please keep these things separate. It is NOT allowed currently to use tools which allow visibility of this kind of information. Arc does not provide this type of information. Any tool which is currently allowed by Arenanet will not provide this information.

I still think it's invasive, I still think all third party software should be banned.But If I am talking about the wrong software in the wrong thread, then I apologize.I will not comment further in here, if that is the case.

Oh with that kind of invasive software (there was a damage meter in the past which was this invasive. is was discontinued and is not allowed currently), rest assured a lot of people would have issues, myself included. But yes, this is only about damage meters and the information those provide.

Thank you for seeing my point ^^' even though I wrote it in the wrong place xDI honestly thought that Was the damage meter, though...

Honestly, for me personally I just value the fact that classes get to perform. I remember the dark times where rangers, necromancers and engineers were kicked on sight (not making this up, 80% of all dungeon groups would instant kick these classes during vanilla the moment they joined).

I would much prefer all tools be given to us by arenanet. Until they do, this is the second best option.

Toxicity is mostly based on the players or individuals you meet. It;s also one of the reasons I keep telling people to join guilds. The game becomes 1 bazillion times better, especially group content.

[hash.8462]

@"Zin Dau.1749" said:challenging instance content like dungeons, raids breed toxic people. DPS meter has nothing to do with that.

Well, if you enter Ascalon Catacombs with a full party of level 35 characters or with all players that have never seen it... I suppose it can be challenging.Anyway there is not a single reason to use arcdps there or in any other dungeon, personally in AC I prefer to party with a lv35 who knows the dungeon mechanisms than with a muscleheaded elitist that don't know them and want to rush thru with just raw power.

Maybe adding an "Elitist only" tag in the lfg description could reduce these problems...why not, maye an official and easy to be seen tag like the language one.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned,

that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny

, ...

Quit reading after this statement. This is the reason people don't want it. That attitude right there.

I have used dps meters in other games, but don't feel the need to have one in this game.

Do I care if people use it? No.

Do I care if you generalize me for not wanting to use it? Yep. Tell you what, you give me any class and a week to learn its rotation, and the gear needed for whatever content you want, and I'll out dps you...I don't need a meter. You don't need a meter....you don't know me, and at this point I don't care to know you. Got nothing to hide. I just don't feel the need to use one.

The problem is that people like you automatically think people have something to hide by not wanting it.

You are not who he is complaining about. Nobody has to use a dps meter for basic practice. The golem is absolutely sufficient for that. Unfortunately the golem has limitations.

The issue is with people who do not want others to use a meter because they fear their performance might get scrutinized (which I feel is the incorrect approach, nobody deserves to get flack for poor performance. Keep it short, tell them their performance was lacking and remove them. If you feel generous initiate a conversation and give pointers).

Also let's be clear, the most groups don't kick someone because he was 1-2k off in his performance. They kick people who are so far off that support builds are outperforming them and other damage dealers are a significant amount above their performance.

[tethyr.6513]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:There appears to be a prevailing thought pattern among players crying for Arc DPS to be banned,

that their poor performance should somehow be hidden from scrutiny

, ...

Quit reading after this statement. This is the reason people don't want it. That attitude right there.

I have used dps meters in other games, but don't feel the need to have one in this game. Do I care if people use it? No. Do I care if you generalize me for not wanting to use it? Yep. Tell you what, you give me any class and a week to learn its rotation, and the gear needed for whatever content you want, and I'll out dps you...I don't need a meter. You don't need a meter....you don't know me, and at this point I don't care to know you. Got nothing to hide. I just don't feel the need to use one.

The problem is that people like you automatically think people have something to hide by not wanting it.

Yikes, anyone else get a read on what Infusion that is? +5 Hostility. He wasn't talking about you. Most groups don't have any requirement that you run ArcDPS. I've never been in a group that failed to understand a firm 'No, you can run it but I won't.' I'll even enthusiastically ask how my numbers look as we go, because why not? I'd like to know I brought game.

[Deimos.4263]

Keep the meter, remove the ability to kick? Somewhat tongue-in-cheek post to make people think.

One thing I have heard from time to time is "Even though you generate it the DPS isn't yours. It's public information about you."

By that logic even if you created it, the group is not yours either. It's just about you. Don't like someone's DPS? Fine, but you can't kick them. It's very much a learn to play issue. Like...literally, learn to play. You know, the thing where you're happy socializing with other humans.

(Yes obviously there are issues with implementing this, calm down. But it would eliminate people getting kicked for low DPS...or any other reason...and it demonstrates that the DPS meter is not the problem. People are the problem, both those underperforming and those intolerant.)

[ReActif.9251]

I will recall that ArenaNet has accepted that tools can analyze the data of combat on demand of the players who were only complaining not to have on the forum, reddit and so on.

On the old forum, you do not imagine how many messages from players crying begged qu'Arena add one!I even remember a response from a developer explaining that he wanted to add this to the API but that he did not have the time. This is probably why they arranged with ArcDPS.

What I think is that some are just a little too good at crying, and they behave like children who can not hear other opinions than theirs.They feel hurt in their ego, and are unable to just block a player, or not worry about it.They want dad (ArenaNet) to punish the one who hurt them!

I think a lot of people do not understand that online gambling means doing with all that we can find, including toxic ones.These players will be important as long as you give them, do not wait until we make them disappear.

Otherwise there are offline RPGs.But you will probably cry to creators that the game is not online after.

Block the players who are bothering you.There are methods to be more grouped with, so use and do it with.

[Dante.1763]

TBH they just need personal built in(not third party) DPS meters with an opt in/out option, id like to know my DPS nearly constantly but i refuse to run 3rd party tools. Meta groups/Experienced groups would require you to opt in, but that wouldnt be an issue since it would be the players choice. Dont wanna share your information, dont join the group. You wanna join the group, you are going to show your DPS info.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Deimos.4263 said:Keep the meter, remove the ability to kick? Somewhat tongue-in-cheek post to make people think.

That would simply enable trolling. Terrible idea

[Dante.1763]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or maybe don't join group based content if you don't want to be judged. Doing decent dps is not hard. Just using aa would be enough most of the time but the special snowflakes still fail that.

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or don't join PUG

Problem solved.

See, this is idiotic and only shows one side of the issue, which is people who dont want to be judged joining groups that they shouldnt, but the following happens just as much.

If i put up a LFG that says Casual and somebody joins and decides to hijack the group with toxicty because they are using a DPS meter in a CASUAL group, thats an issue as well, and it Should not be happening. You have no right to come into a group marked as casual and try and force people in there to be judged, just as much as they have no right to join your group when its marked as experienced.

[Zenith.7301]

@Dragon Priestess.9760 said:I shouldn't have to perform to some player made standard in order to join a casual raid/fractal.

Idc what people think, I have other hobbies and if I'm being made to grind for ascended gear just to be accepted - I'll end up hating everything and leave the game. I'm not into that stuff. I'll do what I want to do, for fun. I don't play to have the best gear. I play to enjoy the world.

I make the effort to learn the mechanics of the raid/fractal. That should be good enough for someone who wants to stay at the beginner levels. I do NOT need full ascended and meta rotation for causal raid/ fractals.

This competitive 'everyone needs to have meta/ do this much dps' kitten is not why I'm here.

There's nothing casual about a raid, and the moment you start taking up other people's time your fun and individual wants are overridden by the needs of the group.

Not to fret, because if you want to not give a damn about others' standards you can always play single player RPG's which allows you all the suboptimal build flexibility that you want.

[Dante.1763]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Dragon Priestess.9760 said:I shouldn't have to perform to some player made standard in order to join a casual raid/fractal.

Idc what people think, I have other hobbies and if I'm being made to grind for ascended gear just to be accepted - I'll end up hating everything and leave the game. I'm not into that stuff. I'll do what I want to do, for fun. I don't play to have the best gear. I play to enjoy the world.

I make the effort to learn the mechanics of the raid/fractal. That should be good enough for someone who wants to stay at the beginner levels. I do NOT need full ascended and meta rotation for causal raid/ fractals.

This competitive 'everyone needs to have meta/ do this much dps' kitten is not why I'm here.

There's nothing casual about a raid, and the moment you start taking up other people's time your fun and individual wants are overridden by the needs of the group.

Not to fret, because if you want to not give a kitten about others' standards you can always play single player RPG's which allows you all the suboptimal build flexibility that you want.

to be honest, W1-4 are pretty casual these days, the training group i run with rarely fails to kill a boss in those wings with no comms, and brand new players to raids.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Deimos.4263" said:Keep the meter, remove the ability to kick? Somewhat tongue-in-cheek post to make people think.

One thing I have heard from time to time is "Even though you generate it the DPS isn't yours. It's public information about you."

By that logic even if you created it, the group is not yours either. It's just about you. Don't like someone's DPS? Fine, but you can't kick them.In fractal that is true. You can create the group, but you don't own it and you don't have an ability to kick other players. You need group vote for that.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or maybe don't join group based content if you don't want to be judged. Doing decent dps is not hard. Just using aa would be enough most of the time but the special snowflakes still fail that.

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or don't join PUG

Problem solved.

See, this is idiotic and only shows one side of the issue, which is people who dont want to be judged joining groups that they shouldnt, but the following happens just as much.

If i put up a LFG that says Casual and somebody joins and decides to hijack the group with toxicty because they are using a DPS meter in a

CASUAL

group, thats an issue as well, and it

Should not

be happening. You have no right to come into a group marked as casual and try and force people in there to be judged, just as much as they have no right to join your group when its marked as

experienced

.

Hmmmm... Anet just need to add for LFG 2 tabs: EXPERIENCED and CASUAL. (raids/fractals. Not sure about dungeons rofl)Or somehow being able to mark your group as EXPERIENCED and show in LFG differently with a flames(ths is a joke xD. Orange color would be enough) on it (and "EXP" somewhere) .While CASUAL could have blue color .Im not being too serious but this exactly what you want xD

[Dante.1763]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or maybe don't join group based content if you don't want to be judged. Doing decent dps is not hard. Just using aa would be enough most of the time but the special snowflakes still fail that.

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or don't join PUG

Problem solved.

See, this is idiotic and only shows one side of the issue, which is people who dont want to be judged joining groups that they shouldnt, but the following happens just as much.

If i put up a LFG that says Casual and somebody joins and decides to hijack the group with toxicty because they are using a DPS meter in a

CASUAL

group, thats an issue as well, and it

Should not

be happening. You have no right to come into a group marked as casual and try and force people in there to be judged, just as much as they have no right to join your group when its marked as

experienced

.

Hmmmm... Anet just need to add 2 sections for LFG sections aka fractals/raid(dungeon...is...okay ,there too...may be...) 2 tabs: EXPERIENCED and CASUAL.Or somehow being able to mark your group as EXPERIENCED and show in LFG differently with a flames on it (and "EXP" somewhere) .While CASUAL could have blue color .Im not being too serious but this exactly what you want xD

Thats not even needed. Groups bput EXP and Casual in their LFG tabs all the time, they get ignored by people on both sides of this issue just as much, if players respected each other and joined groups that where to their tastes(i think thats right phrase) there wouldnt be any issues.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Dante.1763 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or maybe don't join group based content if you don't want to be judged. Doing decent dps is not hard. Just using aa would be enough most of the time but the special snowflakes still fail that.

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Ahrijlaken.9541 said:How to fix the problem ?

1. Ban DPS metter third party
2. Creat official DPSmeter in the game that only show solo DPS and GUILD members DPS

Problem solved.

Or don't join PUG

Problem solved.

See, this is idiotic and only shows one side of the issue, which is people who dont want to be judged joining groups that they shouldnt, but the following happens just as much.

If i put up a LFG that says Casual and somebody joins and decides to hijack the group with toxicty because they are using a DPS meter in a

CASUAL

group, thats an issue as well, and it

Should not

be happening. You have no right to come into a group marked as casual and try and force people in there to be judged, just as much as they have no right to join your group when its marked as

experienced

.

Hmmmm... Anet just need to add 2 sections for LFG sections aka fractals/raid(dungeon...is...okay ,there too...may be...) 2 tabs: EXPERIENCED and CASUAL.Or somehow being able to mark your group as EXPERIENCED and show in LFG differently with a flames on it (and "EXP" somewhere) .While CASUAL could have blue color .Im not being too serious but this exactly what you want xD

Thats not even needed. Groups bput EXP and Casual in their LFG tabs all the time, they get ignored by people on both sides of this issue just as much, if players respected each other and joined groups that where to their tastes(i think thats right phrase) there wouldnt be any issues.

Maybe what Anet needs to do is provide an "English for dummies" quick lesson in the tutorial :expressionless:

[mindcircus.1506]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:Rather than ban Arc DPS, I think it might be time for everyone to accept that they can't necessarily do all content all of the time; That there might be some content that is a little more exclusive, requires a little more experience and time investment in the game, and that this is not a bad thing.

I think you have absolutely put your finger on the real issue.There is a small but very vocal group that feels it is their right to all content by virtue of the time/money spent on the game regardless of skill level or even their own personal interest in it.They will never accept what you are saying, regardless of how logical, even and sensible the message is. From the demand for ARC to be banned, to the demand for "easy mode raids" to the complaints about having to go into WvW for a few hours to earn a legendary weapon, it's all the same.They show up in rare, mismatched armor with zero synergy in their build and expect to be able to do a t3 fractal because the armor is a gemstore skin. Then they hop on to the forums to berate Arenanet for the AR system or the other players who kicked them for underperforming.They spent their time and money, they figure; they are supposed to be allowed to raid.

The word here is entitlement.If the players in question could read your quote and come to terms with it, drama would decrease tenfold.But they won't, because when given the choice between a lessening of their power-fantasy and criticizing others they will always choose to blame other people.

why should they be forced to pay for content, that theyre never gonna play? thats right ...ENTITLEMENTyou want "exclusive" content...YOU pay for it

You....who started a reactionary post criticizing the developers for the difficulty of a Core Tyria vista....Ok then... have fun in those t4 fractals you paid for.