What are the chances of an overhaul of berserker energy system?

[Axl.8924]

So I spoke with obtena about different classes warrior was one I asked her about since I saw her in this forum, and she explained that berserker had trouble regarding their resource gathering system and adrenaline, so I wonder:

What are the true chances for a overhaul? for attacks like the way necro has certain attacks gain resources? it would seem logical that if you are supposed to spend said resources that you should be able to get enough of them How come it wasn't overhauled yet?

[Dadnir.5038]

Not sure gathering adrenaline is an issue for the berserker (or even the warrior as a whole). I never liked using this e-spec so I'm not an expert but building adrenaline didn't strike me as an issue when playing it. Spending adrenaline efficiently on another hand might be more of an issue due to traits building effects dependant on the level of adrenaline spent.

Honnestly, giving the berserker more way to build adrenaline would probably do nothing at all on the table for the berserker.

From my point of view the issue is more defensive than offensive for the Berserker. If they had to give anything to the berserker to make him more competitive, I think a trait that make the berserker mode prevent incoming hits to crit would be a better option.

[Axl.8924]

So if spending adrenaline became better at avoiding damage and being able to sustain would that fix the class?

What about the identity of the elite spec? would there be one? where would it stand?

Each spec on Mesmer for instance has its identity: Chronomancers buffers, mirages have evades and can land condis.

Druid spec is a good support spec, and soulbeast is a dps spec that allows you to mege with your pet gaining some sustain and dmg abilities.

[Dadnir.5038]

Berserker have it's identity though. The e-spec feature a warrior that's being engulfed in the flames of rage to burst more often. There is no reason a buff to the defensive aspect of the berserker would go against it's identity, if anything, while he is enraged he shouldn't be one who worry about being hit.

The identity of a spec isn't the same thing as the role that players end up giving to it. Chronomancer is one that play with time, mirage is a mirage in between real and illusory. The berserker is a raging warrior while the spellbreaker is a boon breaker (well he isn't very good at it but it try).

[RedShark.9548]

The problem with berserker is, that you honestly DONT get alot of a benefit from turning into berserker, you dont do meaningful more dmg while sacrificing alot if defenses, why would i do that? Makes no sense at all.

Also you build up 3 bars of adrenalin to turn into berserker, while using ALL bars up without getting ANYTHING. its a kitten joke, you get nothing from it, if turning into berserker (using all adrenalin) instantly getting all adrenak health stacks, getting 3 condis cleansed with cleansing ire, then it would make sense, but you gain NOTHING. And then after you used them all up all your burstskills only activate 1 adrenal health etc. And they are STILL as telegrapged and easy to avoid as the basic bursts.

Its just not worth is to go into berserker mode.

[Axl.8924]

So you use it for mostly burst? or both sustain and burst? sounds messy.

Sounds to me it should do a lot of damage if you use adrenaline in such high quantities.

Sounds also like the resource cost needs to be reduced in order to make it competitive. Would that help a lot?

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@RedShark.9548 said:The problem with berserker is, that you honestly DONT get alot of a benefit from turning into berserker, you dont do meaningful more dmg while sacrificing alot if defenses, why would i do that? Makes no sense at all.

Also you build up 3 bars of adrenalin to turn into berserker, while using ALL bars up without getting ANYTHING. its a kitten joke, you get nothing from it, if turning into berserker (using all adrenalin) instantly getting all adrenak health stacks, getting 3 condis cleansed with cleansing ire, then it would make sense, but you gain NOTHING. And then after you used them all up all your burstskills only activate 1 adrenal health etc. And they are STILL as telegrapged and easy to avoid as the basic bursts.

Its just not worth is to go into berserker mode.

Actually aren't they more telegraphed with a longer cast time AND you're glowing red.

[Aza.2105]

Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

[Axl.8924]

@Aza.2105 said:Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

Do enemies from behind still take damage? it says that with decapitate you could possibly hit two enemies.

Only attack I see that mentions multiple hits is flaming flurry

so how many stacks of adrenal health was it before the nerf?How many stacks of condi before?

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

Do enemies from behind still take damage? it says that with decapitate you could possibly hit two enemies.

Only attack I see that mentions multiple hits is flaming flurry

so how many stacks of adrenal health was it before the nerf?How many stacks of condi before?

Before the nerf primal bursts counted as a t3 burst.

[Axl.8924]

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

Do enemies from behind still take damage? it says that with decapitate you could possibly hit two enemies.

Only attack I see that mentions multiple hits is flaming flurry

so how many stacks of adrenal health was it before the nerf?How many stacks of condi before?

Before the nerf primal bursts counted as a t3 burst.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

Do enemies from behind still take damage? it says that with decapitate you could possibly hit two enemies.

Only attack I see that mentions multiple hits is flaming flurry

so how many stacks of adrenal health was it before the nerf?How many stacks of condi before?

Before the nerf primal bursts counted as a t3 burst.

So the problem is sustain then, that's what you all mean.The loss of adrenal health told to me by aza means less heal regen and less cc removal, so that's why its dead in pvp but viable in pve.

Couldn't this technically be a good thing? it means that you could have spellbreaker for pvp and possibly some fractals, and zerker for pve and possibly raids. Couldn't you take some other stuff from core for sustain?

[RedShark.9548]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

Do enemies from behind still take damage? it says that with decapitate you could possibly hit two enemies.

Only attack I see that mentions multiple hits is flaming flurry

so how many stacks of adrenal health was it before the nerf?How many stacks of condi before?

Before the nerf primal bursts counted as a t3 burst.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Anet killed berserker when they changed it so primal bursts only count as one burst. The spec died without cleansing ire and adrenal health. If they revert the change, I'd say Berzerker would be ok.

Do enemies from behind still take damage? it says that with decapitate you could possibly hit two enemies.

Only attack I see that mentions multiple hits is flaming flurry

so how many stacks of adrenal health was it before the nerf?How many stacks of condi before?

Before the nerf primal bursts counted as a t3 burst.

So the problem is sustain then, that's what you all mean.The loss of adrenal health told to me by aza means less heal regen and less cc removal, so that's why its dead in pvp but viable in pve.

Couldn't this technically be a good thing? it means that you could have spellbreaker for pvp and possibly some fractals, and zerker for pve and possibly raids. Couldn't you take some other stuff from core for sustain?

Its onky used as a condi variant in pve, power core does more dmg

[Axl.8924]

they probably made a huge mistake when designing spellbreaker and overlooked how much it could hit and heal, and caused spellbreaker to be neigh invincible.

Should instead spellbreaker be overhauled since its the one guilty of some of the issues, so that adrenal health can be back to 3 and cleansing ire?

[Krieger.4712]

They don't seem to be in any hurry to fix Berserker =/

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Isnt it same with spellbreaker

[Axl.8924]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Isnt it same with spellbreakerIs it though? I mean you got built in healing on spellbreaker no?

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Isnt it same with spellbreakerIs it though? I mean you got built in healing on spellbreaker no?

Explain

[Axl.8924]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Isnt it same with spellbreakerIs it though? I mean you got built in healing on spellbreaker no?

Explain

I thought spellbreaker had more healing abilities, but it has natural healing built in, and thats it, but a bunch of boonrips. I really like winds of disenchantment, sounds real useful in pve and pvp.

It must be the multi hit people talked about that made the healing extreme.'

I heard that something about the way spellbreaker hit system messed up the adrenal health and that other ability.

The loss of boons from natural healing kinda sucks actually, but at least you can eliminate 7 condis from you.

[Obtena.7952]

I don't have a problem with the Berserker sustain and I believe that if Berserker got more sustain in its traitline, I would make the espec worse; we have more than enough sustain in the core lines without polluting Berserker and it would mean giving up some of the condi/DPS elements of the traits. I think the biggest mechanical problems are that there are too many effects linked to using berserker as a trigger. I also feel that the mechanic is too rigid; the only option you have to enter berserker mode is to get the full adrenaline bar. I also think there is a thematic problem; the 'on-berserker trigger' effects drop of quickly so for a significant duration of berserker mode, it feels underwhelming. I also think thematically the condi options are filler; Condi is a DoT themed DPS build, but berserker is a burst themed mode.

I also disagree with the comment that we don't get anything when you use berserker mode. You get a significant boost to damage with Always Angry and Fatal Frenzy; this makes sense; the idea of getting a DPS boost for a duration by going berserker spending adrenaline is sensible. Getting more DPS or being more immune to CC/conditions are also trait options. One could argue that while those things are good and appropriate, they just aren't enough ... that's probably more the case than saying using berserker doesn't give anything. Also, having reactionary effects like CC/stun breaker on trigger ruins the feel of the theme; those effects cause people to sit on their adrenaline bars to get the most from the traits ... or those effects are of almost no consequence that they aren't taken.

There are lots of ways to solve these issues; I believe that the best way to fix that would be to allow players to trigger berserker mode on any amount of adrenaline (still respecting ICD) and make the duration of the mode depend on how much adrenaline was spend.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't have a problem with the Berserker sustain and I believe that if Berserker got more sustain in its traitline, I would make the espec worse; we have more than enough sustain in the core lines without polluting Berserker and it would mean giving up some of the condi/DPS elements of the traits. I think the biggest mechanical problems are that there are too many effects linked to using berserker as a trigger. I also feel that the mechanic is too rigid; the only option you have to enter berserker mode is to get the full adrenaline bar. I also think there is a thematic problem; the 'on-berserker trigger' effects drop of quickly so for a significant duration of berserker mode, it feels underwhelming. I also think thematically the condi options are filler; Condi is a DoT themed DPS build, but berserker is a burst themed mode.

I also disagree with the comment that we don't get anything when you use berserker mode. You get a significant boost to damage with Always Angry and Fatal Frenzy; this makes sense; the idea of getting a DPS boost for a duration by going berserker spending adrenaline is sensible. Getting more DPS or being more immune to CC/conditions are also trait options. One could argue that while those things are good and appropriate, they just aren't enough ... that's probably more the case than saying using berserker doesn't give anything. Also, having reactionary effects like CC/stun breaker on trigger ruins the feel of the theme; those effects cause people to sit on their adrenaline bars to get the most from the traits ... or those effects are of almost no consequence that they aren't taken.

There are lots of ways to solve these issues; I believe that the best way to fix that would be to allow players to trigger berserker mode on any amount of adrenaline (still respecting ICD) and make the duration of the mode depend on how much adrenaline was spend.

The idea that it could last longer based on how much adrenaline you used would be nice, a thought I had at one point was that it operates a little like reaper shroud that when you use a burst it goes down until you fully drain it, and your regular weapon skills and rage skills fill it up (not the AA or other utility skills, that might be too OP). When you exit combat you exit berserk.

[Hitman.5829]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Isnt it same with spellbreakerIs it though? I mean you got built in healing on spellbreaker no?

Explain

I thought spellbreaker had more healing abilities, but it has natural healing built in, and thats it, but a bunch of boonrips. I really like winds of disenchantment, sounds real useful in pve and pvp.

It must be the multi hit people talked about that made the healing extreme.'

I heard that something about the way spellbreaker hit system messed up the adrenal health and that other ability.

The loss of boons from natural healing kinda sucks actually, but at least you can eliminate 7 condis from you.

Theoretically speaking it has the same healing, but in reality getting health with SB is a little bit harder than core warrior; you have to use 3 burst to get full benefit of adrenal healing and if you want to get full benefits you have to land them in consecutive order.

[Axl.8924]

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Isnt it same with spellbreakerIs it though? I mean you got built in healing on spellbreaker no?

Explain

I thought spellbreaker had more healing abilities, but it has natural healing built in, and thats it, but a bunch of boonrips. I really like winds of disenchantment, sounds real useful in pve and pvp.

It must be the multi hit people talked about that made the healing extreme.'

I heard that something about the way spellbreaker hit system messed up the adrenal health and that other ability.

The loss of boons from natural healing kinda sucks actually, but at least you can eliminate 7 condis from you.

Theoretically speaking it has the same healing, but in reality getting health with SB is a little bit harder than core warrior; you have to use 3 burst to get full benefit of adrenal healing and if you want to get full benefits you have to land them in consecutive order.

So basically you have to burst 3 times to get the same effect as you used to yeah I heard about that.

Is obtenna right? about the things linked to going enraged?

Also would it be ok if you could trigger it when needed on any amount of adrenaline? also what if you had more bars lets say 5 instead of 3?

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Isnt it same with spellbreakerIs it though? I mean you got built in healing on spellbreaker no?

Explain

I thought spellbreaker had more healing abilities, but it has natural healing built in, and thats it, but a bunch of boonrips. I really like winds of disenchantment, sounds real useful in pve and pvp.

It must be the multi hit people talked about that made the healing extreme.'

I heard that something about the way spellbreaker hit system messed up the adrenal health and that other ability.

The loss of boons from natural healing kinda sucks actually, but at least you can eliminate 7 condis from you.

Theoretically speaking it has the same healing, but in reality getting health with SB is a little bit harder than core warrior; you have to use 3 burst to get full benefit of adrenal healing and if you want to get full benefits you have to land them in consecutive order.

So basically you have to burst 3 times to get the same effect as you used to yeah I heard about that.

Is obtenna right? about the things linked to going enraged?

Also would it be ok if you could trigger it when needed on any amount of adrenaline? also what if you had more bars lets say 5 instead of 3?

Yes but the defensive portion trait was heavily nerfed about 4 months prior to PoF, along with several other berserker sustain things. Boy this almost makes me want to say new e-specs are coming soon.

[Dall.9752]

I wish Berserk Mode was reworked into some sort of upkeep skill:

• you could enter it as long as you had a minimum level of adrenaline;
• it'd drain adrenaline at an increasingly faster rate;
• you'd get adrenaline by dealing or taking hits;
• you'd deal and take increased damage, increasing even more at certain thresholds;
• primal bursts wouldn't cost adrenaline;

There'd have to be certain drawbacks, such as decreased damage and/or adrenaline generation for a short while after leaving BM, but overall I think it'd be better than what we have now. Plus, it'd fit way more the "rage induced warrior" theme of the spec.

That said, I think the chances for significant changes are low. It is a HoT elite after all, and Warrior is among the least played classes (last I checked).

[Stand The Wall.6987]

might work if you could enter berserk at any adrenaline level, and depending on what level you entered at you got that particular bonus. so if you built up regular adren on core burst to fill the first bar, then entered berserk, you got lvl one bursts. same for lvl two and three. I think smash brawler is too important and could maybe be thrown into a minor trait slot. sundering leap and wild blow could use a buff. torch is not very strong either.