Unrelenting Assault vs. Smokescale's Smoke Assault

[DonArkanio.6419]

So, why is this even a thing?

I wonder, why would Rangers have access to one of the most recognizable skills of Revenant?This is literally Rangers having the exact same (if not stronger) skill of other class. And I'm not talking about Smokescale as a pet, but rather Ranger merging with Smokescale so it can use it.

Here it is - comparison of both skills:

Unrelenting Assault (Revenant):

• Damage: 288 (0.7865)
• Might: 8 s
• Evade: 1.5 s
• Number of hits: 5
• Range: 450
• Cast time: 0.75 s
• Cooldown: 12 s
• *Energy cost: 15

Smoke Assault (Smokescale/Ranger):

• Damage: 554 (1.296)
• Might: 8 s
• Evade: 1.5 s
• Number of hits: 5
• Radius: 300
• Range: 750
• Instant cast
• Cooldown: 20 s

Does that seem fair to you?

My Suggestions:

1. Nerf the Smokescale's Smoke Assault so it's not a corny Revenant's skill.
2. Buff Revenant's Unrelenting Assault back to 7 hits and adjust the damage.
3. Rework Smokescale's ability so it's a not a copy-paste with better range and damage.

EDIT 1 and 2: Added additional information.

[Ario.8964]

I don't really care about any of the things you mentioned, what I want is for my sword 3 to work as reliably as smokescale's :(

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Just wanted to clarify that the Ranger Smoke Assault you linked is for the Smokescale, not the Soulbeast. Assuming the Wiki is correct, these are the damage numbers:
Damage: 133 (0.5).

In regards to your post, I don't think that Revenant "owns" the skill any more than Ranger considering they were released at the same time. It being available to Soulbeast makes sense since the Ranger merges with the pet, gaining access to some of its skills.

With that said, I do think that the skill adds too much to the Soulbeast's arsenal. I have previously suggested nerfs to this skill, which are:-Add a cast time-Reduce the range

These are the two primary issues I see the skill having, particularly it being instant cast. It is one of the many aspects that makes Soulbeast extremely forgiving to play. My suggestions are to actually make it more like UA, which I see as a more balanced amd counterplayable skill. I do, however, think a nice buff for Rev (that could be given to Soulbeast as well) would be to make it only hit one target.

[DonArkanio.6419]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Just wanted to clarify that the Ranger Smoke Assault you linked is for the Smokescale, not the Soulbeast. Assuming the Wiki is correct, these are the damage numbers:

Damage: 133 (0.5).

In regards to your post, I don't think that Revenant "owns" the skill any more than Ranger considering they were released at the same time. It being available to Soulbeast makes sense since the Ranger merges with the pet, gaining access to some of its skills.

With that said, I do think that the skill adds too much to the Soulbeast's arsenal. I have previously suggested nerfs to this skill, which are:-Add a cast time-Reduce the range

These are the two primary issues I see the skill having, particularly it being instant cast. It is one of the many aspects that makes Soulbeast extremely forgiving to play. My suggestions are to actually make it more like UA, which I see as a more balanced amd counterplayable skill. I do, however, think a nice buff for Rev (that could be given to Soulbeast as well) would be to make it only hit one target.

I think you're right.But I'm curious. Don't you feel like this shouldn't be a thing? I don't mean that Revenants can have this skill and Rangers not. I just think that 2 classes having access to nearly the exact same skill is just quite weird and ANet should decide on what should each class have. And yeah, I feel angry about this because it's a copy-paste skill that Rangers didnt have access to since HoT but rather PoF. That's where my salt comes from.

I wouldn't want this skill to be a total crap for Rangers. Just make it do something different - for Revenant or Ranger.

[Revolution.5409]

anet recycles many skills, other examples are the skills of the daggers of SoulBeast, SpellBreaker and Thief to make an example that are all very similar, I agree with the thought of @ Ario.8964 the important thing is that the skill works well, that there are similar, is irrelevant. :)

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Ario.8964 said:I don't really care about any of the things you mentioned, what I want is for my sword 3 to work as reliably as smokescale's :(

This. Cast bugs still exist for the skill and have persisted for literally years without fixes. Meanwhile soulbeast gets an instant cast higher range (less damaging) version that doesn’t have the bugs/issues rev’s has ???

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@DonArkanio.6419 said:So, why is this even a thing?

I wonder, why would Rangers have access to one of the most recognizable skills of Revenant?This is literally Rangers having the exact same (if not stronger) skill of other class. And I'm not talking about Smokescale as a pet, but rather Ranger merging with Smokescale so it can use it.

Here it is - comparison of both skills:

Unrelenting Assault (Revenant):

• Damage: 288 (0.7865)
• Might: 8 s
• Evade: 1.5 s
• Number of hits: 5
• Range: 450

Smoke Assault (Smokescale/Ranger):

• Damage: 554 (1.296)
• Might: 8 s
• Evade: 1.5 s
• Number of hits: 5
• Radius: 300
• Range: 750

Does that seem fair to you?

My Suggestions:

1. Nerf the Smokescale's Smoke Assault so it's not a corny Revenant's skill.
2. Buff Revenant's Unrelenting Assault back to 7 hits and adjust the damage.
3. Rework Smokescale's ability so it's a not a copy-paste with better range and damage.

You missed one huge, difference between UA and SA:

SA instantly drops target and is Instant Cast, UA doesn’t drop target and has a large precast.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

UA needs to have a cast time. So does SA. I do think UA should have its range increased however.

[DonArkanio.6419]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:So, why is this even a thing?

I wonder, why would Rangers have access to one of the most recognizable skills of Revenant?This is literally Rangers having the exact same (if not stronger) skill of other class. And I'm not talking about Smokescale as a pet, but rather Ranger merging with Smokescale so it can use it.

Here it is - comparison of both skills:

Unrelenting Assault (Revenant):

• Damage: 288 (0.7865)
• Might: 8 s
• Evade: 1.5 s
• Number of hits: 5
• Range: 450

Smoke Assault (Smokescale/Ranger):

• Damage: 554 (1.296)
• Might: 8 s
• Evade: 1.5 s
• Number of hits: 5
• Radius: 300
• Range: 750

Does that seem fair to you?

My Suggestions:

1. Nerf the Smokescale's
   Smoke Assault
   so it's not a corny Revenant's skill.
2. Buff Revenant's
   Unrelenting Assault
   back to 7 hits and adjust the damage.
3. Rework Smokescale's ability so it's a not a copy-paste with better range and damage.

You missed one huge, difference between UA and SA:

SA instantly drops target and is Instant Cast, UA doesn’t drop target and has a large precast.

Thanks! Added the information.

[DonArkanio.6419]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:UA needs to have a cast time. So does SA. I do think UA should have its range increased however.

I'd suggest giving SA cast time and increasing Revenant's UA number of hits to 7, decreasing the damage a little.Might stacks could be the problem but welp, I don't think it changes anything if any Rev can get 25 might stacks on its own in a matter of seconds.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

You might want to check the recharge time of each ability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assaulthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault_(soulbeast)

[DonArkanio.6419]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:You might want to check the recharge time of each ability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assaulthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault_(soulbeast)

Thanks, that's helpful. I'll add the information.Here's the problem. Using UA on Rev takes away 1 of its skills and it goes on cooldown. However, for Ranger this is a totally bonus skill that doesn't take away anything from the weapon. So it's just a free damage with steroids.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:With that said, I do think that the skill adds too much to the Soulbeast's arsenal. I have previously suggested nerfs to this skill, which are:-Add a cast time-Reduce the range

These are the two primary issues I see the skill having, particularly it being instant cast. It is one of the many aspects that makes Soulbeast extremely forgiving to play. My suggestions are to actually make it more like UA, which I see as a more balanced amd counterplayable skill. I do, however, think a nice buff for Rev (that could be given to Soulbeast as well) would be to make it only hit one target.

This is the most reasonable suggestion in this thread imo.

Even if we're not comparing skills and just looking at SA in a vacuum, it should at least have a cast-time rather than none for counterplay reasons.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:You might want to check the recharge time of each ability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assaulthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault_(soulbeast)

One has a CD while one has a CD and an Energy Cost.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Cooldown and relativity to other skills. Revenant has half the cooldown, and a decent autoattack. Ranger (until recently) had some of the worst autoattacks in the game.

I do agree cast time should be reduced on Revenant so that it could be more reliably used as a dodge. Maybe 0.5s or even 0.25s. However, I do not think the current state is unbalanced either.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Cooldown and relativity to other skills. Revenant has half the cooldown, and a decent autoattack. Ranger (until recently) had some of the worst autoattacks in the game.

I do agree cast time should be reduced on Revenant so that it could be more reliably used as a dodge. Maybe 0.5s or even 0.25s. However, I do not think the current state is unbalanced either.

It’s not half the cast time it’s close but not, and you conveniently forgot to mention Revs UA is tied to Energy cost on top of the CD that directly impacts utilizing other skills on the whole bar.

[DonArkanio.6419]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Cooldown and relativity to other skills. Revenant has half the cooldown, and a decent autoattack. Ranger (until recently) had some of the worst autoattacks in the game.

I do agree cast time should be reduced on Revenant so that it could be more reliably used as a dodge. Maybe 0.5s or even 0.25s. However, I do not think the current state is unbalanced either.

I'd rather add the cast time for Rangers. Removing or reducing cast time on Revenant is just a powercreep. Both of these skills are very strong but Ranger's version of it is clearly stronger. That's why i would bring it down to the Revenant's UA.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Also, while I didn't do the math, try to consider the damage multipliers accessible by rangers compared to revenant.

[Clownmug.8357]

This is a child's play dev bias matchup. Try thinking about the mechanics of Momentary Pacification vs. Ancient Seeds without throwing up.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Also, while I idn't do the math, try to consider the damage multipliers accessible by rangers compared to revenant.

Soulbeast has higher damage multipliers/Modifiers, just by Sic Em alone.

Looking at PvP traits and skills only:Rev multipliers are conditional, ie based upon number of boons or number of upkeep so I used the realistic average for them.

Rev: 1.09x1.03x1.13x1.15x1.07x1.05=1.6391(1.15 is Burst of Strength)

Soulbeast: 1.07x1.1x1.1x1.1x1.4=1.9938(the 1.4 is Sic Em.)

These don’t take into account Vuln outside the 7% extra damage rev gets for damaging an enemy with Vuln, or other stat increasers ie Might or the Ranger trait that gives free 150 power or 300 Ferocity.

[Kain Francois.4328]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Also, while I idn't do the math, try to consider the damage multipliers accessible by rangers compared to revenant.

Soulbeast has higher damage multipliers/Modifiers, just by Sic Em alone.

Looking at PvP traits and skills only:Rev multipliers are conditional, ie based upon number of boons or number of upkeep so I used the realistic average for them.

Rev: 1.09x1.03x1.13x1.15x1.07x1.05=1.6391(1.15 is Burst of Strength)

Soulbeast: 1.07x1.1x1.1x1.1x1.4=1.9938(the 1.4 is Sic Em.)

These don’t take into account Vuln outside the 7% extra damage rev gets for damaging an enemy with Vuln, or other stat increasers ie Might or the Ranger trait that gives free 150 power or 300 Ferocity.

Sic EM' has a long cooldown and is temporary. It doesn't count.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Also, while I idn't do the math, try to consider the damage multipliers accessible by rangers compared to revenant.

Soulbeast has higher damage multipliers/Modifiers, just by Sic Em alone.

Looking at PvP traits and skills only:Rev multipliers are conditional, ie based upon number of boons or number of upkeep so I used the realistic average for them.

Rev: 1.09x1.03x1.13x1.15x1.07x1.05=1.6391(1.15 is Burst of Strength)

Soulbeast: 1.07x1.1x1.1x1.1x1.4=1.9938(the 1.4 is Sic Em.)

These don’t take into account Vuln outside the 7% extra damage rev gets for damaging an enemy with Vuln, or other stat increasers ie Might or the Ranger trait that gives free 150 power or 300 Ferocity.

Sic EM' has a long cooldown and is temporary. It doesn't count.

It’s not all that long since the builds that use it have 20% CD duration on it whichcblowers the 35sec CD down to 28sec, and it does count since it’s a damage multiplier that Soulbeasts use, trying to arbitrarily state a damage multiplier doesn’t count because it’s temporary doesn’t work, using that logic you can remove over half of the Revenant damage multipliers since they are all temporary, they either need a a skill with a CD to hit, a boon, a condition or critting with a certain weapon to even be active.

[otto.5684]

For me that SA is an instant cast with 750 range seems like an oversight. That does not mean UA needs a buff. I was hoping though that UA maintains damage on target versus jumping into multiple targets.