Stop Complaining About Scrapper, It Isn't OP - Now With Video Proof

Stand The Wall.6987 · March 12, 2019

just remove the initial barrier from bulwark and have it so it pulses barrier to yourself and allies. scraps would be fine then.

Solori.6025 · March 12, 2019

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Twigifire.8379 As you can see from my OP statement, in no way do I think Scrapper in general is OP. But I do have to agree that Sneak Gyro in particular is kind of crazy right now for many reasons. There is way too much utility in that skill for it's low CD. It isn't even just the stealthing, it's also the pulsing smoke fields with blinding finishers. If done correctly, a team in a team fight with their Scrapper present, is too powerful in a couple situations:
One of the Scrapper's team mates goes down in a 4v4. The Scrapper lays Sneak Gyro on top of his downed team mate not only to stealth him, but to also create the blinding smoke fields. So anyone who spins to win in that smoke field spams blinding bolts all over the place, so the opponents cannot cleave the downed team mate, and they can't stop either due the guy on the ground being stealthed. Upon this, we also have Function Gyro going to work. It's too much res power.
An enemy gets downed in a 4v4. Normally when a team goes in to stomp or cleave, the opposing team will cleave trap them, making the stomp or cleave risky. But with Sneak Gyro, you can just stealth every one of your team mates for enhanced stomping, with Function Gyro, or simply spin to win in smoke fields, to blind the hell out of the opponent's cleave trap. Again, its' too much power & utility in one skill that has such a low CD.
Sneak Gyro needs to be on at least a 90s CD for what it currently offers.

Scrapper main spotted.

Vagrant.7206 · March 12, 2019

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@zoopop.5630 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.
With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.
Look let's compare conquest attributes, specifically as tied to being a side noder in this current meta:
Spellbreaker
Damage Potential: A "or a sudden S+ for the duration of rampage"
1v1 Sustain: A
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ to A+ "depending on setup"
Team Fight Potential: B "it only really brings mostly single target DPS and CCs"
Sheer Node Holding Power: B+ or A- at best "If it can't actually kill the player it is against, it doesn't hold a node quite as well as other side noders"
Boonbeast or Druid
Damage Potential: A- Boonbeast or C+ or B Druid "Depending on how well the Druid can work his retaliation"
1v1 Sustain: A+ Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid is the stronger sustain after nerf"
1v2 Sustain: A- Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid has always been better at surviving 1v2s than Soulbeast"
Mobility: B+ to A+ depending on setup for both
Team Fight Potential: B- for Boonbeast or B+ for Druid "The Druid can afford to pop team heals from time to time, and stealth stomp/revive"
Sheer Node Holding Power: A Boonbeast or S Druid "This is now, after the nerfs to Boonbeast"
Chronobunker
Damage Potential: B+ "Mainly due to its CC factor"
1v1 Sustain: Honestly it's an S in most situations, as low as a B+ in some counter situations
1v2 Sustain: A- "It's not so hot when focused and usually has to leave a node to survive"
Mobility: B+ or A- "depending on how skills usage is cycled"
Team Fight Potential: A "The AoE CCs actually bring a lot to the table with coordinated play"
Sheer Node Holding Power: It's like an A+ or maybe S- 1v1 in most situations, but when 1v2 it goes down to a B+ at best
Weaver
"I'm judging this from the very few good Weavers we have out there btw"
Damage Potential: A-
1v1 Sustain: A+
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ at best
Team Fight Potential: B+
Sheer Node Holding Power: A+ or B- when focused
Scrapper
Damage Potential: C at best "It also has no chase potential. A Scrapper will not be able to chase and kill you, if you just wisen up an leave"
1v1 Sustain: S+
1v2 Sustain: S+ regarding mitigating raw damage or A- regarding being able to avoid it "there are better kiters out there"
Mobility: B at best
Team Fight Potential: A "Not quite as important as a FB support, but it does bring other factors to a team fight, despite its low damage"
Sheer Node Holding Power: S+ in 1v1, S- when 2v1'd focused. The Scrapper, although it can survive through the use of sneak gyro, will lose a node when it must do a somewhat elongated stealth disengage/reset.
When you look at it like this, you can see that Scrapper is actually rather balanced. The thing that players are freaking out about, is that we are seeing a real "Bunker" for the first time in a long time. Other Side Noders are hard to kill sure, but they struggle when 1v2 focused and often lose the node while using their survival techniques. What makes the Scrapper a Bunker instead of a Side Noder, is that it can hold 1v2 for a much longer duration of time, before needing to stealth disengage/reset, than the other Side Noders. This is often plenty of time for his team to + him, or fall to him. THIS IS NOTHING NEW, having Bunkers or Scrappers that cannot be killed 1v1. Any of you who are freaking out about this, apparently did not play in the HoT meta. Another reason why I think people are freaking out about Scrapper, is because we just exited a high DPS meta, and sort of instantly landed into a much tankier meta. Again, a meta where a real Bunker has appeared again.
It's ok boys, relax. Let the Scrapper mains have their good meta, they've waited a very long time for it.
Pointing all of this out about "how it doesn't matter which side node classes are against each other in 1v1s, no one is going to kill anyone anyway" reminds me of what Phantaram had said in a previous thread posted:
@"Phantaram.4816" said:
most match ups that are against another side noder class/spec just turn into a stalemate. 90% of my time spent in these extremely competitive and close matches of guild wars 2 could have been with my hands not on my keyboard and mouse. Same goes for the guy I was 1v1ing on the side nodes. It meant nothing. We couldn't kill each other. This has been a problem for a long time in guild wars 2 any time the side node meta turns into a tanky mess.

His thread was titled "SIDE NODING ISN'T FUN" and he's right, it isn't right now. But the community shouldn't be pointing fingers and blaming this all on the Scrapper. Because even if they deleted Scrapper tomorrow, there will still be Tanky Rangers/Weavers/Chronobunkers/Spellbreakers. The problem is within design & balance theory intra-class wide. It is not within Scrapper as an individual class. Stop bullying Scrappers.

You can throw all the estimated stats for each build around. At the end of the day if you're

. Simple as that.

Even then, yes absolute tons of aspects of Scrapper in it's current for are overtuned and other aspects are extremely unfair to fight against. Stealth Gyro in it's current tuning is 1,000%

completely indefensible

.

All Gyros need longer activation wind ups with the possibility for fast reacting players to interrupt them especially the Medic Gyro and the Stealth Gyro
.
All gyros need cooldowns increased, some of them extremely dramatically given their current power level. Medic Gyro with it's current tuning should be bumped up to 25s, Purge Gyro should be bumped up to 35-40 seconds to be comparable with other similar skills like Well of Power. Bulwark Gyro with it's current tuning seriously deserves a 75s cooldown and
Sneak Gyro at it's current Tuning deserves a 240 second cooldown that's how out of line it is with other group stealth skills like Mass Invisibility (Mass Invisibility is 2 Second activation, 5 seconds of group stealth, 90 second cooldown) now that it doesn't have a tell
. In it's current for it is a better, less skilled, more spammable way to "portal lock" people like with pre-nerf mesmer Portal while also having amazing ability to both peel for and revive allies in team fights.
All gyros need bigger and more obvious animation tells as the sprites are too small to see in the heat of combat as well as active effects on the players status bars similar to Soulbeast and Warrior stances, or the Troll Unguent and False Oasis healing skills so we can clearly understand what effects are active and respond in kind.
Bulwark should not pulse out barrier to the degree it does while the scrapper is alone 1vXing.
Sneak Gyro's field needs to be visible and it's stealth duration needs to be brought in line with other similar skills like Mass Invisibility. If the field is visible it justifies a higher duration of stealth but with no field it is completely and unjustifiably out of line.
Hammer 2-4 should have their damage nerfed and rolled into the auto attack chain. Right now in a PvP match hammers 2 and 3 are going to be DPS increases (4 isn't a boost but isn't that much of a loss) as well as providing excellent defense leading to hammer's weapon kit being skilllessly spammed on cooldown rather than reacting appropriately to or correctly predicting incoming threats. Scrapper is far too easy of a spec for how survivable it is and how much sustain it has due to the spammyness of hammer and it's gyros.
Adaptive Armor shouldn't reduce incoming condition damage. Traits like this and Second Skin defeat the purpose of condition damage as a unique damage archetype that bypasses defenses but can be negated through cleanse.
For years both Alchemy on it's own and especially Alchemy+Inventions combo have been over powered, providing too much effortless sustain and defense against both physical and condition attacks allowing Holosmith, a spec designed to be such a high risk high reward glass cannon it's in danger of blowing itself up, be far far too self sufficient and with far too much ability to resustain for having top tier damage on top of it as well as allowing Prot Holo to side node too effectively given the mission statement of the Holosmith as a specialization. Combined with Scrapper it makes a build that competently played literally cannot die 1v1, and will only die 1v2 to extremely high power pressure and CC. Alchemy+Inventions combo is at least 50% of the reason Scrapper is so over the top. Holosmith's sustain and self sufficiency should be akin to Glint+Shiro and scourge where it really needs the support to shine and Scrapper's defensive capabilities should be about where Prot-Holo currently is, maybe a bit higher with a bit more kill potential on the Hammer Auto attack chain but without the free top tier damage of Photon Forge. It's time to seriously nerf Alchemy and Inventions.

Also the idea that scrapper was completely dead is factually untrue when friends of mine like Cuilan have been chilling in the top 30 playing exclusively Scrapper all season long before the Gyro rework. Scrappers seeing low usage was

never

about

Scrapper's

performance in and of itself. Scrapper's problem was that between Holosmith's free top tier damage from Photon Forge, Heal Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game, as well as Alchemy and the Alchemy+Inventions combo giving Holosmith gave Holosmith all the resustain and self sufficiency it ever needed while still having top tier damage. SS Tier Damage+A Tier Resustain is going to be more attractive than C Tier Damage and SS Tier resustain, and by a huge amount because a majority of people in every game gravitate more towards damage over tanking unless it's completely insane like post rework Scrapper.

Holosmith has always been too efficient in too many areas of ranked and Alchemy and Alchemy+Inventions (And Healing Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game) combo are the reason why. It's great on the side nodes because it's ability to resustain so heavily makes it completely self sufficient. It's great in the team fights because of it's AoE CC and high pressure. It's also good in team fights regardless if your team has support unlike Scourge because of this self sufficiency. It's great rotating into fights and +1ing. Prot Holo is as defensively orientated as we should want Scrapper to be just through Inventions+Alchemy Combo while still having immense pressure in Photon Forge. It's too good in too many areas at once and it should be forced to be more specialized in damage similar to Shiro+Glint Rev and Scourge where it needs that support to really shine. If that was the desireability of Scrapper for both team support as well as side noding would have skyrocketed.

yikes on the amount of nerfs you are looking to see lmfaooooooo. Just make them unplayable again by all means lmfao nerf on hammer 2-4 :astonished:

Scrapper was never unplayable. The main thing that held it back was Holosmith having complete self sufficiency due to Heal Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game since Core GW2, Elixirs Traitline and the Elixir+Invention combo making them far too sustainy than a glass cannon spec ever should have been. If Holosmith was in a place similar to Glint+Shiro revs as a truly high risk high reward spec that really benefits from having a dedicated support to get the most out of it Scrappers would have been considerably more prevalent.

You do realize that unless you make the two classes identical, there will by definition need to be differences in how they perform?

Engineer is one of the slowest classes in the game, next to necro and guardian. Without the right build (focused on stealth), it simply cannot disengage from fights. So, by necessity, unless you want to require all engineers constantly use stealth to escape, they need to have more sustain than a rev would, because they generally cannot escape most engagements.

@"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:Just an observation.
Today, i tested scrapper on 6 differents accounts (Na, EU), some low tier, some higher (the higher one plat2) 20 games.
I can say that scrapper is shining in low tier, every and i say EVERY game, i have at least the 4 better stats (also better damage XD i play a non meta build)
https://imgur.com/a/vPST9Ms
But in higher tier, i just ....disapear, in higher tier ppl know how to focus and who focus 1st, every time i've been the last one been focused and my mates dies too fast to rez them.... i come-back to my protection holo :)
Take your conclusions.

Yeah, in higher tier I see maybe 1 or two scrappers at most in a match, assuming I see any. Simply put, their damage potential is low, and they offer little besides tankiness. A prot holo can tank just as well as they can and do more damage and support.

@Solori.6025 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
@Mathias.9657 said:
@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@Mathias.9657 @Trevor Boyer.6524I was being sarcastic

You don't say???? lmao

Seeing as both you and Trevor have an history of complaining about mes, I dunno.

Mesmer main spotted.

Can we start using "Scrapper main" for everyone that defends scrapper so every wall of text they write is automatically invalidated like it was for mes?

On the engineer subforums... there were about 4 or 5 people who called themselves scrapper mains prior to this patch. I never considered myself one. So yeah, good luck with... being ironic I guess?

bbop.9706 · March 12, 2019

Sneak gyro is the only thing that feels broken about scrapper to me.

Up the cooldown and scrapper is fine.

Rusty.9348 · March 12, 2019

The more I read this the more want Scrapper to return to his pre-patch state. Now if he is nerfed due to the whining he may become total trash.

TorQ.7041 · March 12, 2019

@Shao.7236 said:Defending this mess? How can you do that? This patch is overkill, it always take at least 2 people to kill 1 scrapper because they are such damage sponges you might as well give up the point while there is constantly Acid Bomb and Thunderclap to pressure anything that goes by it. They don't even have to kite or LoS anymore, they have no weakness or exploits, it's impossible to win a duel against them without wasting 10 minutes into the game even if you were to constantly outplay their decisions.
There's too much cheese, it's awful.

What are you playing? The counter to scrap is warrior or reaper. A scrapper has little stun break and 7 sec duration of stab. With bulls charge, sheild bash then rampage. U can delete a scrapper. U only need to connect maybe twice.

If a reaper catch's you as a scrapper. U can die in 1 second flat due to the massive dps.

Understand that that a scrapper can only heal through combo. If it's stunned it can't combo and it's over. With out combos it can't take hits like a warrior.

I learnt the hard way when side noding as scrapper, died twice. Then I basically avoided the guy n went the other node where a boon beast n mesmer wasted their time on me then complain scrapper op. I am going to guess you are one of those guys. Paying a build it counters then repestingly smash into it and not doing any dmg.

If you are playing a build that doesn't counter scrapper... U r not going to kill a scrapper. It's like a thief trying to 1v1 a boonbeast. Just dont.

Out rotate it. It has zero swiftness. As a scrapper I Kno I can't take a point from some one because zero dmg. U see a scrapper coming n u r a boonbeast? Sit on it. U see a scrapper already on node and own it? Go to the other node and outnumber ;/.

Solori.6025 · March 12, 2019

@Vagrant.7206 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@zoopop.5630 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.
With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.
Look let's compare conquest attributes, specifically as tied to being a side noder in this current meta:
Spellbreaker
Damage Potential: A "or a sudden S+ for the duration of rampage"
1v1 Sustain: A
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ to A+ "depending on setup"
Team Fight Potential: B "it only really brings mostly single target DPS and CCs"
Sheer Node Holding Power: B+ or A- at best "If it can't actually kill the player it is against, it doesn't hold a node quite as well as other side noders"
Boonbeast or Druid
Damage Potential: A- Boonbeast or C+ or B Druid "Depending on how well the Druid can work his retaliation"
1v1 Sustain: A+ Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid is the stronger sustain after nerf"
1v2 Sustain: A- Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid has always been better at surviving 1v2s than Soulbeast"
Mobility: B+ to A+ depending on setup for both
Team Fight Potential: B- for Boonbeast or B+ for Druid "The Druid can afford to pop team heals from time to time, and stealth stomp/revive"
Sheer Node Holding Power: A Boonbeast or S Druid "This is now, after the nerfs to Boonbeast"
Chronobunker
Damage Potential: B+ "Mainly due to its CC factor"
1v1 Sustain: Honestly it's an S in most situations, as low as a B+ in some counter situations
1v2 Sustain: A- "It's not so hot when focused and usually has to leave a node to survive"
Mobility: B+ or A- "depending on how skills usage is cycled"
Team Fight Potential: A "The AoE CCs actually bring a lot to the table with coordinated play"
Sheer Node Holding Power: It's like an A+ or maybe S- 1v1 in most situations, but when 1v2 it goes down to a B+ at best
Weaver
"I'm judging this from the very few good Weavers we have out there btw"
Damage Potential: A-
1v1 Sustain: A+
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ at best
Team Fight Potential: B+
Sheer Node Holding Power: A+ or B- when focused
Scrapper
Damage Potential: C at best "It also has no chase potential. A Scrapper will not be able to chase and kill you, if you just wisen up an leave"
1v1 Sustain: S+
1v2 Sustain: S+ regarding mitigating raw damage or A- regarding being able to avoid it "there are better kiters out there"
Mobility: B at best
Team Fight Potential: A "Not quite as important as a FB support, but it does bring other factors to a team fight, despite its low damage"
Sheer Node Holding Power: S+ in 1v1, S- when 2v1'd focused. The Scrapper, although it can survive through the use of sneak gyro, will lose a node when it must do a somewhat elongated stealth disengage/reset.
When you look at it like this, you can see that Scrapper is actually rather balanced. The thing that players are freaking out about, is that we are seeing a real "Bunker" for the first time in a long time. Other Side Noders are hard to kill sure, but they struggle when 1v2 focused and often lose the node while using their survival techniques. What makes the Scrapper a Bunker instead of a Side Noder, is that it can hold 1v2 for a much longer duration of time, before needing to stealth disengage/reset, than the other Side Noders. This is often plenty of time for his team to + him, or fall to him. THIS IS NOTHING NEW, having Bunkers or Scrappers that cannot be killed 1v1. Any of you who are freaking out about this, apparently did not play in the HoT meta. Another reason why I think people are freaking out about Scrapper, is because we just exited a high DPS meta, and sort of instantly landed into a much tankier meta. Again, a meta where a real Bunker has appeared again.
It's ok boys, relax. Let the Scrapper mains have their good meta, they've waited a very long time for it.
Pointing all of this out about "how it doesn't matter which side node classes are against each other in 1v1s, no one is going to kill anyone anyway" reminds me of what Phantaram had said in a previous thread posted:
@"Phantaram.4816" said:
most match ups that are against another side noder class/spec just turn into a stalemate. 90% of my time spent in these extremely competitive and close matches of guild wars 2 could have been with my hands not on my keyboard and mouse. Same goes for the guy I was 1v1ing on the side nodes. It meant nothing. We couldn't kill each other. This has been a problem for a long time in guild wars 2 any time the side node meta turns into a tanky mess.

His thread was titled "SIDE NODING ISN'T FUN" and he's right, it isn't right now. But the community shouldn't be pointing fingers and blaming this all on the Scrapper. Because even if they deleted Scrapper tomorrow, there will still be Tanky Rangers/Weavers/Chronobunkers/Spellbreakers. The problem is within design & balance theory intra-class wide. It is not within Scrapper as an individual class. Stop bullying Scrappers.

You can throw all the estimated stats for each build around. At the end of the day if you're

. Simple as that.

Even then, yes absolute tons of aspects of Scrapper in it's current for are overtuned and other aspects are extremely unfair to fight against. Stealth Gyro in it's current tuning is 1,000%

completely indefensible

.

All Gyros need longer activation wind ups with the possibility for fast reacting players to interrupt them especially the Medic Gyro and the Stealth Gyro
.
All gyros need cooldowns increased, some of them extremely dramatically given their current power level. Medic Gyro with it's current tuning should be bumped up to 25s, Purge Gyro should be bumped up to 35-40 seconds to be comparable with other similar skills like Well of Power. Bulwark Gyro with it's current tuning seriously deserves a 75s cooldown and
Sneak Gyro at it's current Tuning deserves a 240 second cooldown that's how out of line it is with other group stealth skills like Mass Invisibility (Mass Invisibility is 2 Second activation, 5 seconds of group stealth, 90 second cooldown) now that it doesn't have a tell
. In it's current for it is a better, less skilled, more spammable way to "portal lock" people like with pre-nerf mesmer Portal while also having amazing ability to both peel for and revive allies in team fights.
All gyros need bigger and more obvious animation tells as the sprites are too small to see in the heat of combat as well as active effects on the players status bars similar to Soulbeast and Warrior stances, or the Troll Unguent and False Oasis healing skills so we can clearly understand what effects are active and respond in kind.
Bulwark should not pulse out barrier to the degree it does while the scrapper is alone 1vXing.
Sneak Gyro's field needs to be visible and it's stealth duration needs to be brought in line with other similar skills like Mass Invisibility. If the field is visible it justifies a higher duration of stealth but with no field it is completely and unjustifiably out of line.
Hammer 2-4 should have their damage nerfed and rolled into the auto attack chain. Right now in a PvP match hammers 2 and 3 are going to be DPS increases (4 isn't a boost but isn't that much of a loss) as well as providing excellent defense leading to hammer's weapon kit being skilllessly spammed on cooldown rather than reacting appropriately to or correctly predicting incoming threats. Scrapper is far too easy of a spec for how survivable it is and how much sustain it has due to the spammyness of hammer and it's gyros.
Adaptive Armor shouldn't reduce incoming condition damage. Traits like this and Second Skin defeat the purpose of condition damage as a unique damage archetype that bypasses defenses but can be negated through cleanse.
For years both Alchemy on it's own and especially Alchemy+Inventions combo have been over powered, providing too much effortless sustain and defense against both physical and condition attacks allowing Holosmith, a spec designed to be such a high risk high reward glass cannon it's in danger of blowing itself up, be far far too self sufficient and with far too much ability to resustain for having top tier damage on top of it as well as allowing Prot Holo to side node too effectively given the mission statement of the Holosmith as a specialization. Combined with Scrapper it makes a build that competently played literally cannot die 1v1, and will only die 1v2 to extremely high power pressure and CC. Alchemy+Inventions combo is at least 50% of the reason Scrapper is so over the top. Holosmith's sustain and self sufficiency should be akin to Glint+Shiro and scourge where it really needs the support to shine and Scrapper's defensive capabilities should be about where Prot-Holo currently is, maybe a bit higher with a bit more kill potential on the Hammer Auto attack chain but without the free top tier damage of Photon Forge. It's time to seriously nerf Alchemy and Inventions.

Also the idea that scrapper was completely dead is factually untrue when friends of mine like Cuilan have been chilling in the top 30 playing exclusively Scrapper all season long before the Gyro rework. Scrappers seeing low usage was

never

about

Scrapper's

performance in and of itself. Scrapper's problem was that between Holosmith's free top tier damage from Photon Forge, Heal Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game, as well as Alchemy and the Alchemy+Inventions combo giving Holosmith gave Holosmith all the resustain and self sufficiency it ever needed while still having top tier damage. SS Tier Damage+A Tier Resustain is going to be more attractive than C Tier Damage and SS Tier resustain, and by a huge amount because a majority of people in every game gravitate more towards damage over tanking unless it's completely insane like post rework Scrapper.

Holosmith has always been too efficient in too many areas of ranked and Alchemy and Alchemy+Inventions (And Healing Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game) combo are the reason why. It's great on the side nodes because it's ability to resustain so heavily makes it completely self sufficient. It's great in the team fights because of it's AoE CC and high pressure. It's also good in team fights regardless if your team has support unlike Scourge because of this self sufficiency. It's great rotating into fights and +1ing. Prot Holo is as defensively orientated as we should want Scrapper to be just through Inventions+Alchemy Combo while still having immense pressure in Photon Forge. It's too good in too many areas at once and it should be forced to be more specialized in damage similar to Shiro+Glint Rev and Scourge where it needs that support to really shine. If that was the desireability of Scrapper for both team support as well as side noding would have skyrocketed.

yikes on the amount of nerfs you are looking to see lmfaooooooo. Just make them unplayable again by all means lmfao nerf on hammer 2-4 :astonished:

Scrapper was never unplayable. The main thing that held it back was Holosmith having complete self sufficiency due to Heal Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game since Core GW2, Elixirs Traitline and the Elixir+Invention combo making them far too sustainy than a glass cannon spec ever should have been. If Holosmith was in a place similar to Glint+Shiro revs as a truly high risk high reward spec that really benefits from having a dedicated support to get the most out of it Scrappers would have been considerably more prevalent.

You do realize that unless you make the two classes identical, there will by definition need to be differences in how they perform?

Engineer is one of the slowest classes in the game, next to necro and guardian. Without the right build (focused on stealth), it simply cannot disengage from fights. So, by necessity, unless you want to require all engineers constantly use stealth to escape, they need to have more sustain than a rev would, because they generally cannot escape most engagements.

@"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:Just an observation.
Today, i tested scrapper on 6 differents accounts (Na, EU), some low tier, some higher (the higher one plat2) 20 games.
I can say that scrapper is shining in low tier, every and i say
EVERY
game, i have at least the 4 better stats (also better damage XD i play a non meta build)
https://imgur.com/a/vPST9Ms
But in higher tier, i just ....disapear, in higher tier ppl know how to focus and who focus 1st, every time i've been the last one been focused and my mates dies too fast to rez them.... i come-back to my protection holo :)
Take your conclusions.

Yeah, in higher tier I see maybe 1 or two scrappers at most in a match, assuming I see any. Simply put, their damage potential is low, and they offer little besides tankiness. A prot holo can tank just as well as they can and do more damage and support.

@Solori.6025 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
@Mathias.9657 said:
@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@Mathias.9657 @Trevor Boyer.6524I was being sarcastic

You don't say???? lmao

Seeing as both you and Trevor have an history of complaining about mes, I dunno.

Mesmer main spotted.

Can we start using "Scrapper main" for everyone that defends scrapper so every wall of text they write is automatically invalidated like it was for mes?

On the engineer subforums... there were about 4 or 5 people who called themselves scrapper mains prior to this patch. I never considered myself one. So yeah, good luck with... being ironic I guess?

You know not everything is directed towards you correct?

TorQ.7041 · March 12, 2019

@bbop.9706 said:Sneak gyro is the only thing that feels broken about scrapper to me.
Up the cooldown and scrapper is fine.

Agreed. They nerfed deadeye stealth but then gae scrapper mass invis for extended lengths and a combo smoke field to add more stealth :/. At least the old gyro you can hit it.

apharma.3741 · March 12, 2019

@"Rusty.9348" said:The more I read this the more want Scrapper to return to his pre-patch state. Now if he is nerfed due to the whining he may become total trash.

Welcome to every time mesmer is considered good regardless of build.

The real problem imo is that scrapper wasn't even bad, it was just overshadowed by all the bloated power creep and the thing that annoys me more than anything is we're seeing buffs to "under performing" classes/specs instead of nerfs to what's overshadowing it.

mortrialus.3062 · March 12, 2019

@Vagrant.7206 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@zoopop.5630 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.
With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.
Look let's compare conquest attributes, specifically as tied to being a side noder in this current meta:
Spellbreaker
Damage Potential: A "or a sudden S+ for the duration of rampage"
1v1 Sustain: A
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ to A+ "depending on setup"
Team Fight Potential: B "it only really brings mostly single target DPS and CCs"
Sheer Node Holding Power: B+ or A- at best "If it can't actually kill the player it is against, it doesn't hold a node quite as well as other side noders"
Boonbeast or Druid
Damage Potential: A- Boonbeast or C+ or B Druid "Depending on how well the Druid can work his retaliation"
1v1 Sustain: A+ Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid is the stronger sustain after nerf"
1v2 Sustain: A- Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid has always been better at surviving 1v2s than Soulbeast"
Mobility: B+ to A+ depending on setup for both
Team Fight Potential: B- for Boonbeast or B+ for Druid "The Druid can afford to pop team heals from time to time, and stealth stomp/revive"
Sheer Node Holding Power: A Boonbeast or S Druid "This is now, after the nerfs to Boonbeast"
Chronobunker
Damage Potential: B+ "Mainly due to its CC factor"
1v1 Sustain: Honestly it's an S in most situations, as low as a B+ in some counter situations
1v2 Sustain: A- "It's not so hot when focused and usually has to leave a node to survive"
Mobility: B+ or A- "depending on how skills usage is cycled"
Team Fight Potential: A "The AoE CCs actually bring a lot to the table with coordinated play"
Sheer Node Holding Power: It's like an A+ or maybe S- 1v1 in most situations, but when 1v2 it goes down to a B+ at best
Weaver
"I'm judging this from the very few good Weavers we have out there btw"
Damage Potential: A-
1v1 Sustain: A+
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ at best
Team Fight Potential: B+
Sheer Node Holding Power: A+ or B- when focused
Scrapper
Damage Potential: C at best "It also has no chase potential. A Scrapper will not be able to chase and kill you, if you just wisen up an leave"
1v1 Sustain: S+
1v2 Sustain: S+ regarding mitigating raw damage or A- regarding being able to avoid it "there are better kiters out there"
Mobility: B at best
Team Fight Potential: A "Not quite as important as a FB support, but it does bring other factors to a team fight, despite its low damage"
Sheer Node Holding Power: S+ in 1v1, S- when 2v1'd focused. The Scrapper, although it can survive through the use of sneak gyro, will lose a node when it must do a somewhat elongated stealth disengage/reset.
When you look at it like this, you can see that Scrapper is actually rather balanced. The thing that players are freaking out about, is that we are seeing a real "Bunker" for the first time in a long time. Other Side Noders are hard to kill sure, but they struggle when 1v2 focused and often lose the node while using their survival techniques. What makes the Scrapper a Bunker instead of a Side Noder, is that it can hold 1v2 for a much longer duration of time, before needing to stealth disengage/reset, than the other Side Noders. This is often plenty of time for his team to + him, or fall to him. THIS IS NOTHING NEW, having Bunkers or Scrappers that cannot be killed 1v1. Any of you who are freaking out about this, apparently did not play in the HoT meta. Another reason why I think people are freaking out about Scrapper, is because we just exited a high DPS meta, and sort of instantly landed into a much tankier meta. Again, a meta where a real Bunker has appeared again.
It's ok boys, relax. Let the Scrapper mains have their good meta, they've waited a very long time for it.
Pointing all of this out about "how it doesn't matter which side node classes are against each other in 1v1s, no one is going to kill anyone anyway" reminds me of what Phantaram had said in a previous thread posted:
@"Phantaram.4816" said:
most match ups that are against another side noder class/spec just turn into a stalemate. 90% of my time spent in these extremely competitive and close matches of guild wars 2 could have been with my hands not on my keyboard and mouse. Same goes for the guy I was 1v1ing on the side nodes. It meant nothing. We couldn't kill each other. This has been a problem for a long time in guild wars 2 any time the side node meta turns into a tanky mess.

His thread was titled "SIDE NODING ISN'T FUN" and he's right, it isn't right now. But the community shouldn't be pointing fingers and blaming this all on the Scrapper. Because even if they deleted Scrapper tomorrow, there will still be Tanky Rangers/Weavers/Chronobunkers/Spellbreakers. The problem is within design & balance theory intra-class wide. It is not within Scrapper as an individual class. Stop bullying Scrappers.

You can throw all the estimated stats for each build around. At the end of the day if you're

. Simple as that.

Even then, yes absolute tons of aspects of Scrapper in it's current for are overtuned and other aspects are extremely unfair to fight against. Stealth Gyro in it's current tuning is 1,000%

completely indefensible

.

All Gyros need longer activation wind ups with the possibility for fast reacting players to interrupt them especially the Medic Gyro and the Stealth Gyro
.
All gyros need cooldowns increased, some of them extremely dramatically given their current power level. Medic Gyro with it's current tuning should be bumped up to 25s, Purge Gyro should be bumped up to 35-40 seconds to be comparable with other similar skills like Well of Power. Bulwark Gyro with it's current tuning seriously deserves a 75s cooldown and
Sneak Gyro at it's current Tuning deserves a 240 second cooldown that's how out of line it is with other group stealth skills like Mass Invisibility (Mass Invisibility is 2 Second activation, 5 seconds of group stealth, 90 second cooldown) now that it doesn't have a tell
. In it's current for it is a better, less skilled, more spammable way to "portal lock" people like with pre-nerf mesmer Portal while also having amazing ability to both peel for and revive allies in team fights.
All gyros need bigger and more obvious animation tells as the sprites are too small to see in the heat of combat as well as active effects on the players status bars similar to Soulbeast and Warrior stances, or the Troll Unguent and False Oasis healing skills so we can clearly understand what effects are active and respond in kind.
Bulwark should not pulse out barrier to the degree it does while the scrapper is alone 1vXing.
Sneak Gyro's field needs to be visible and it's stealth duration needs to be brought in line with other similar skills like Mass Invisibility. If the field is visible it justifies a higher duration of stealth but with no field it is completely and unjustifiably out of line.
Hammer 2-4 should have their damage nerfed and rolled into the auto attack chain. Right now in a PvP match hammers 2 and 3 are going to be DPS increases (4 isn't a boost but isn't that much of a loss) as well as providing excellent defense leading to hammer's weapon kit being skilllessly spammed on cooldown rather than reacting appropriately to or correctly predicting incoming threats. Scrapper is far too easy of a spec for how survivable it is and how much sustain it has due to the spammyness of hammer and it's gyros.
Adaptive Armor shouldn't reduce incoming condition damage. Traits like this and Second Skin defeat the purpose of condition damage as a unique damage archetype that bypasses defenses but can be negated through cleanse.
For years both Alchemy on it's own and especially Alchemy+Inventions combo have been over powered, providing too much effortless sustain and defense against both physical and condition attacks allowing Holosmith, a spec designed to be such a high risk high reward glass cannon it's in danger of blowing itself up, be far far too self sufficient and with far too much ability to resustain for having top tier damage on top of it as well as allowing Prot Holo to side node too effectively given the mission statement of the Holosmith as a specialization. Combined with Scrapper it makes a build that competently played literally cannot die 1v1, and will only die 1v2 to extremely high power pressure and CC. Alchemy+Inventions combo is at least 50% of the reason Scrapper is so over the top. Holosmith's sustain and self sufficiency should be akin to Glint+Shiro and scourge where it really needs the support to shine and Scrapper's defensive capabilities should be about where Prot-Holo currently is, maybe a bit higher with a bit more kill potential on the Hammer Auto attack chain but without the free top tier damage of Photon Forge. It's time to seriously nerf Alchemy and Inventions.

Also the idea that scrapper was completely dead is factually untrue when friends of mine like Cuilan have been chilling in the top 30 playing exclusively Scrapper all season long before the Gyro rework. Scrappers seeing low usage was

never

about

Scrapper's

performance in and of itself. Scrapper's problem was that between Holosmith's free top tier damage from Photon Forge, Heal Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game, as well as Alchemy and the Alchemy+Inventions combo giving Holosmith gave Holosmith all the resustain and self sufficiency it ever needed while still having top tier damage. SS Tier Damage+A Tier Resustain is going to be more attractive than C Tier Damage and SS Tier resustain, and by a huge amount because a majority of people in every game gravitate more towards damage over tanking unless it's completely insane like post rework Scrapper.

Holosmith has always been too efficient in too many areas of ranked and Alchemy and Alchemy+Inventions (And Healing Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game) combo are the reason why. It's great on the side nodes because it's ability to resustain so heavily makes it completely self sufficient. It's great in the team fights because of it's AoE CC and high pressure. It's also good in team fights regardless if your team has support unlike Scourge because of this self sufficiency. It's great rotating into fights and +1ing. Prot Holo is as defensively orientated as we should want Scrapper to be just through Inventions+Alchemy Combo while still having immense pressure in Photon Forge. It's too good in too many areas at once and it should be forced to be more specialized in damage similar to Shiro+Glint Rev and Scourge where it needs that support to really shine. If that was the desireability of Scrapper for both team support as well as side noding would have skyrocketed.

yikes on the amount of nerfs you are looking to see lmfaooooooo. Just make them unplayable again by all means lmfao nerf on hammer 2-4 :astonished:

Scrapper was never unplayable. The main thing that held it back was Holosmith having complete self sufficiency due to Heal Turret being the most overloaded heal in the game since Core GW2, Elixirs Traitline and the Elixir+Invention combo making them far too sustainy than a glass cannon spec ever should have been. If Holosmith was in a place similar to Glint+Shiro revs as a truly high risk high reward spec that really benefits from having a dedicated support to get the most out of it Scrappers would have been considerably more prevalent.

You do realize that unless you make the two classes identical, there will by definition need to be differences in how they perform?

Exactly. Which is why Holosmith should never have been allowed to have the sustain and self sufficiency it's had for the past few years. If there were clearer asymmetries between Holosmith and Scrapper in terms of their survivability and self sufficiency Scrapper would have been mostly fine in ranked.

Having more clearly defined roles is far better and healthier. Holosmith should never have been allowed to have the sustain it had through Alchemy, Alchemy Inventions and the most overloaded heal skill in the game. Rifle Holosmith should have been similar to Shiro+Glint Herald in terms of how much it relies on support to get the most out of it. Scrapper should be about where Prot Holo previously was not super charged to Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan level defenses.

Literally everyone knows Holosmith was great in almost all roles in conquest; Side Noder, Roamer, Team Fighter. And unlike other builds like Spellbreaker who are only really great as side noding, or thief who are only really great at roaming, or scourge who are only really great at team fights and only with dedicated supports, holosmith was great at all of them. Because not only did it possess SS tier damage it's fast and it is 100% self sufficient unlike a scourge.

Engineer is one of the slowest classes in the game, next to necro and guardian. Without the right build (focused on stealth), it simply cannot disengage from fights. So, by necessity, unless you want to require all engineers constantly use stealth to escape, they need to have more sustain than a rev would, because they generally cannot escape most engagements.

Yeah, poor core Engineer only has access to:

An 800 Range leap on an 18 second cooldown on the most widely used weapon, 2x 600 leap on 20 second cooldowns that can be traited into 2x1200 leaps on 16 second cooldowns (25% better than Mirage with Blink and Illusionary Ambush at that point, I might add)", another 550 range leap, better more spammable stealth from a utility than Mesmer's Elite Stealth Skill, Smoke Fields to leap and stealth through, several of them actually, Super Speed, More Super Speed, A 2 second block on a traited 13 second cooldown (Higher block uptime than warrior with Shield Block I might add), More CC than any other class by such a huge margin I can't even list them all, True Invulnerability, A more spammable moa than Mesmer with next to no tell unlike the real moa skill, a More spammable Rampage than Warriors, Immobilization, I can keep going.

Rocket Boots with the Gadgetier Trait alone puts you at considerably better mobility than a Mirage with Blink and Illusionary Ambush even with a theoretical target for Illusionary Ambush being up 100% of the time. They'd need sword to even hope to compete with that out of combat and with Sword ambush has a effective 10s cooldown so with Rifle+Rocket Boots, Gadgetier alone you're outpacing a sword mirage with double mobility utilities. And that's not even counting Holosmith which has a 600 range leap that grants swiftness on a 2 second cooldown another CC and the constant threat of being counter pressured and killed extremely quickly from SS tier burst. And yeah people absolutely run that don't act like "Oh that's a fringe thing no one good ever runs."

Zenix.6198 · March 12, 2019

Personally I DONT mind scrapper.It just is another bunker. It kind of reminds me of Druid in HoT tbh.

Sure it can hold a capped node forever...but it doesn't really kill players, making them terrible at decapping, if the enemy team has any map awareness.It is nothing new tbh. Literally every other 1v1 spec can stalemate them.

People have become so alienated by the super burst meta we had for the past ~18 months that they dont know how to play around those type of builds.Sure....it is hard to kill, even with +1s and Im not saying that it doesnt need nerfs in some departments (like bulwark gyro), but it isnt as busted as people make it out to be.As said ....personally I am reminded of HoT druids and eventually people will also get used to play around them.

Chaith.8256 · March 12, 2019

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@zoopop.5630 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.
With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.
Look let's compare conquest attributes, specifically as tied to being a side noder in this current meta:
Spellbreaker
Damage Potential: A "or a sudden S+ for the duration of rampage"
1v1 Sustain: A
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ to A+ "depending on setup"
Team Fight Potential: B "it only really brings mostly single target DPS and CCs"
Sheer Node Holding Power: B+ or A- at best "If it can't actually kill the player it is against, it doesn't hold a node quite as well as other side noders"
Boonbeast or Druid
Damage Potential: A- Boonbeast or C+ or B Druid "Depending on how well the Druid can work his retaliation"
1v1 Sustain: A+ Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid is the stronger sustain after nerf"
1v2 Sustain: A- Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid has always been better at surviving 1v2s than Soulbeast"
Mobility: B+ to A+ depending on setup for both
Team Fight Potential: B- for Boonbeast or B+ for Druid "The Druid can afford to pop team heals from time to time, and stealth stomp/revive"
Sheer Node Holding Power: A Boonbeast or S Druid "This is now, after the nerfs to Boonbeast"
Chronobunker
Damage Potential: B+ "Mainly due to its CC factor"
1v1 Sustain: Honestly it's an S in most situations, as low as a B+ in some counter situations
1v2 Sustain: A- "It's not so hot when focused and usually has to leave a node to survive"
Mobility: B+ or A- "depending on how skills usage is cycled"
Team Fight Potential: A "The AoE CCs actually bring a lot to the table with coordinated play"
Sheer Node Holding Power: It's like an A+ or maybe S- 1v1 in most situations, but when 1v2 it goes down to a B+ at best
Weaver
"I'm judging this from the very few good Weavers we have out there btw"
Damage Potential: A-
1v1 Sustain: A+
1v2 Sustain: B-
Mobility: B+ at best
Team Fight Potential: B+
Sheer Node Holding Power: A+ or B- when focused
Scrapper
Damage Potential: C at best "It also has no chase potential. A Scrapper will not be able to chase and kill you, if you just wisen up an leave"
1v1 Sustain: S+
1v2 Sustain: S+ regarding mitigating raw damage or A- regarding being able to avoid it "there are better kiters out there"
Mobility: B at best
Team Fight Potential: A "Not quite as important as a FB support, but it does bring other factors to a team fight, despite its low damage"
Sheer Node Holding Power: S+ in 1v1, S- when 2v1'd focused. The Scrapper, although it can survive through the use of sneak gyro, will lose a node when it must do a somewhat elongated stealth disengage/reset.
When you look at it like this, you can see that Scrapper is actually rather balanced. The thing that players are freaking out about, is that we are seeing a real "Bunker" for the first time in a long time. Other Side Noders are hard to kill sure, but they struggle when 1v2 focused and often lose the node while using their survival techniques. What makes the Scrapper a Bunker instead of a Side Noder, is that it can hold 1v2 for a much longer duration of time, before needing to stealth disengage/reset, than the other Side Noders. This is often plenty of time for his team to + him, or fall to him. THIS IS NOTHING NEW, having Bunkers or Scrappers that cannot be killed 1v1. Any of you who are freaking out about this, apparently did not play in the HoT meta. Another reason why I think people are freaking out about Scrapper, is because we just exited a high DPS meta, and sort of instantly landed into a much tankier meta. Again, a meta where a real Bunker has appeared again.
It's ok boys, relax. Let the Scrapper mains have their good meta, they've waited a very long time for it.
Pointing all of this out about "how it doesn't matter which side node classes are against each other in 1v1s, no one is going to kill anyone anyway" reminds me of what Phantaram had said in a previous thread posted:
@"Phantaram.4816" said:
most match ups that are against another side noder class/spec just turn into a stalemate. 90% of my time spent in these extremely competitive and close matches of guild wars 2 could have been with my hands not on my keyboard and mouse. Same goes for the guy I was 1v1ing on the side nodes. It meant nothing. We couldn't kill each other. This has been a problem for a long time in guild wars 2 any time the side node meta turns into a tanky mess.

His thread was titled "SIDE NODING ISN'T FUN" and he's right, it isn't right now. But the community shouldn't be pointing fingers and blaming this all on the Scrapper. Because even if they deleted Scrapper tomorrow, there will still be Tanky Rangers/Weavers/Chronobunkers/Spellbreakers. The problem is within design & balance theory intra-class wide. It is not within Scrapper as an individual class. Stop bullying Scrappers.

You can throw all the estimated stats for each build around. At the end of the day if you're

. Simple as that.

Even then, yes absolute tons of aspects of Scrapper in it's current for are overtuned and other aspects are extremely unfair to fight against. Stealth Gyro in it's current tuning is 1,000%

completely indefensible

.

All Gyros need longer activation wind ups with the possibility for fast reacting players to interrupt them especially the Medic Gyro and the Stealth Gyro
.
All gyros need cooldowns increased, some of them extremely dramatically given their current power level. Medic Gyro with it's current tuning should be bumped up to 25s, Purge Gyro should be bumped up to 35-40 seconds to be comparable with other similar skills like Well of Power. Bulwark Gyro with it's current tuning seriously deserves a 75s cooldown and
Sneak Gyro at it's current Tuning deserves a 240 second cooldown that's how out of line it is with other group stealth skills like Mass Invisibility (Mass Invisibility is 2 Second activation, 5 seconds of group stealth, 90 second cooldown) now that it doesn't have a tell
. In it's current for it is a better, less skilled, more spammable way to "portal lock" people like with pre-nerf mesmer Portal while also having amazing ability to both peel for and revive allies in team fights.
All gyros need bigger and more obvious animation tells as the sprites are too small to see in the heat of combat as well as active effects on the players status bars similar to Soulbeast and Warrior stances, or the Troll Unguent and False Oasis healing skills so we can clearly understand what effects are active and respond in kind.
Bulwark should not pulse out barrier to the degree it does while the scrapper is alone 1vXing.
Sneak Gyro's field needs to be visible and it's stealth duration needs to be brought in line with other similar skills like Mass Invisibility. If the field is visible it justifies a higher duration of stealth but with no field it is completely and unjustifiably out of line.
Hammer 2-4 should have their damage nerfed and rolled into the auto attack chain. Right now in a PvP match hammers 2 and 3 are going to be DPS increases (4 isn't a boost but isn't that much of a loss) as well as providing excellent defense leading to hammer's weapon kit being skilllessly spammed on cooldown rather than reacting appropriately to or correctly predicting incoming threats. Scrapper is far too easy of a spec for how survivable it is and how much sustain it has due to the spammyness of hammer and it's gyros.
Adaptive Armor shouldn't reduce incoming condition damage. Traits like this and Second Skin defeat the purpose of condition damage as a unique damage archetype that bypasses defenses but can be negated through cleanse.
For years both Alchemy on it's own and especially Alchemy+Inventions combo have been over powered, providing too much effortless sustain and defense against both physical and condition attacks allowing Holosmith, a spec designed to be such a high risk high reward glass cannon it's in danger of blowing itself up, be far far too self sufficient and with far too much ability to resustain for having top tier damage on top of it as well as allowing Prot Holo to side node too effectively given the mission statement of the Holosmith as a specialization. Combined with Scrapper it makes a build that competently played literally cannot die 1v1, and will only die 1v2 to extremely high power pressure and CC. Alchemy+Inventions combo is at least 50% of the reason Scrapper is so over the top. Holosmith's sustain and self sufficiency should be akin to Glint+Shiro and scourge where it really needs the support to shine and Scrapper's defensive capabilities should be about where Prot-Holo currently is, maybe a bit higher with a bit more kill potential on the Hammer Auto attack chain but without the free top tier damage of Photon Forge. It's time to seriously nerf Alchemy and Inventions.