Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

[kiranslee.4829]

Why would we get dismount skill or break bar ? Is this one more case of going after vocal community of qqers ? Im sorry butlong time ago we had same deal with mobs in Orr, qq mobs kill me - nerf.Mounts do have problem , but for sure its not on side of inability to dismount.Quite honestly , every second spent on that is wasted second that could go into work on classes balance or even new elites.2c

[Lishtenbird.2814]

@"martin.3692" said:have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ?

Have you considered that it might not be financially viable to maintain a game mode for a fringe hardcore PvP community in a primarily casual PvE game, and furthermore, to also cater to a fringier "roaming" community? WvWers don't really bring money to GW2 outside of server transfers, and with Alliances, even that will likely be gone; all they do is eat out server resources daily, and then boast how they don't care about fashion, story, PvE and so on, and then their game mode is gradually dying in its own stasis field while the rest of the game evolves. Mount skins are at least some sort of profit from that section of players, and the more players are interested in these skins, the better - and to get them interested in a mount that's useless in PvE, they should find WvW enjoyable instead of frustrating, whether hardcore mode supporters like that or not. And that's also likely why WvW mounts were developed and released before Alliances.

[Auri.1365]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

As we have seen over the last weeks, the mounts cause little to no problem with larger groups and zerging. Even smallscale, once you go over 5 peeps you can easily force a dismount by focus fire and thus the enemy has to engage or loose people. Most zergs now choose to fully dismount before battle, as do guild groups.

A trap is pointless. No one will use it. Why? Because it cost supplies. No one will spend supplies to dismount people that will dismount anyway. This is as redundant as putting a reveal trap inside a ballooned tower.

The dismounting is only an issue in very small scale and random 1v1 encounters.

So Anet... save yourself time. Dont make a stupid trap no one will use 2 days after the novelty wears off.

I completely agree. I don't see much use in a dismount trap. Not only in zergs, but also when there is just a small group of enemy players attacking a tower or a camp the defenders (at least me and those who aren't afraid of a pixle death) usually directly jump in with or without mount and so all are dismounted and fighting, no need for a trap. I haven't seen any situation in which a dismount trap would be useful.

[Glider.5792]

The dismount trap shouldn't just dismount a single time, it should make a 2000-5000 radius nomount zone for next 1-2 minutes. Or to make it more simple, everyone cought in that radius when the trap goes off gets the "Cannot mount" debuff for next 1-2 minutes. This should apply to both enemies and allies.

Or.. just make 2 different traps:

• First dismounts only enemies and applies 30sec of "Cannot mount", smaller radius (around 1000)
• Second dismounts everyone and applies 1-2min of "Cannot mount" to all players, big radius (2000-5000) to promote a fight without the use of mounts

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:Thx BenP,

Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

If it's going to be a projectile attack, you need to fix projectiles. A lot of the time when I use either dancing dagger or throw axe at a mount, the projectile will stoot up really high rather than at the mounted user.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Lishtenbird.2814 said:

@"martin.3692" said:have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ?

Have you considered that it might not be financially viable to maintain a game mode for a fringe hardcore PvP community in a primarily casual PvE game, and furthermore, to also cater to a fringier "roaming" community? WvWers don't really bring money to GW2 outside of server transfers, and with Alliances, even that will likely be gone; all they do is eat out server resources daily, and then boast how they don't care about fashion, story, PvE and so on, and then their game mode is gradually dying in its own stasis field while the rest of the game evolves. Mount skins are at least some sort of profit from that section of players, and the more players are interested in these skins, the better - and to get them interested in a mount that's useless in PvE, they should find WvW enjoyable instead of frustrating, whether hardcore mode supporters like that or not. And that's also likely why WvW mounts were developed and released before Alliances.

Alliances and mounts are apples and oranges so far as development is concerned. One is a complete rework of the current system; the other is built off the rig of an existing mount. Pretty easy to figure out which is easier to implement.

And Anet should not cater to players who refuse to learn the mode they play, or they'll lose more players than they gain by making the gameplay so simplistic.

You won't need a mount to stay on tag if you learn how to push with the tag and survive. Nor do you need a mount to join a tag if you're not comfortable traversing the map alone since commanders waypoint and map hop often.

[Silver.2076]

Basically I don't like the attitude that the smallest renewal is washed out immediately just because it prevents old behaviour - people become more open for new things!

To the entmount skill - sounds interesting, I would consider a short range of 300-600 appropriate, so that escape in occupied areas is still possible.

breakbar - I still don't know what this would be necessary for - the necessary damage to bring a player from the pet is my opinion completely sufficient. but as long as the breakbar can't be tilted by 1-2 players, yes, by me.

much more important to me are the bugfix things - that can't come fast enough!

[Jursha.2368]

Making mounts cc'able would honestly be a very welcomed change in wvw, considering how currently it's possible to dodge all the initial spike from enemy groups without any tactical efforts and just one push them with full cd's.Also, could you change the leap on spacebar to a separate (dodge key) keybind instead? Some people would like to have a possibility to jump around while running mounted.

[martin.3692]

@Lishtenbird.2814 said:

@"martin.3692" said:have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ?

Have you considered that it might not be financially viable to maintain a game mode for a fringe hardcore PvP community in a primarily casual PvE game, and furthermore, to also cater to a fringier "roaming" community? WvWers don't really bring money to GW2 outside of server transfers, and with Alliances, even that will likely be gone; all they do is eat out server resources daily, and then boast how they don't care about fashion, story, PvE and so on, and then their game mode is gradually dying in its own stasis field while the rest of the game evolves. Mount skins are at least some sort of profit from that section of players, and the more players are interested in these skins, the better - and to get them interested in a mount that's useless in PvE, they should find WvW enjoyable instead of frustrating, whether hardcore mode supporters like that or not. And that's also likely why WvW mounts were developed and released before Alliances.

First of all I never said I want the mount to be completely removed, I'm saying there are aspects about it that should be changed.

There's no such thing as a "roaming" community within wvw it is just an integral part of the game mode as a whole and the problem with the current state of the mount is that it just disrupts gameplay in general.

Warclaw skins are worthless especially when everyone are using the option "basic model" for all characters to reduce performance hit. I can't imagine them yeilding much profit

WvW is definitely not dying and surely there are ways to make profit of wvw without introducing disruptive content. The expansions themselves individually cost as if you are buying the game 3 separate times, everybody who owns a mount owns POF which is more profit for the developers then the mount skins could ever accumulate.

"The game outside is evolving" in general what are you ever trying to say ? That wvw players are a burden ? That the best thing you can do is pve and buy lots of skins and care about fashion ? Most people don't care about skins not just the wvw community

What are you even doing in this section of the forum if you despise the game mode so much.This is no different then any other type of broken content that have ever been added - obviously it's going to be controversial and require rebalancing.

[alain.1659]

What about lag and delay problems? Freezes and disconnects? These are more crucial issues for wvw than dismount traps or other thingies.

[Ahratan.1098]

I don’t like the sound of the dismount trap or skill. The mount finally gave us a way to avoid pesky, cancer-spec gankers (perma stealthers and one shotters), and this change would undo it. Ofc gankers will just lay traps all over an area and wait for victims to troll - probably great fun for them, but super tedious for others.

One bug that actually needs fixing is stealth not being instantly removed when mounting.

[Ahratan.1098]

Rather than a adding new dismount trap or skill, perhaps add dismounting to existing siege weapons. For example shield generator could create a no-mount zone circle for ~8secs which dismounts ppl, and ballista could get a 5th shot for dismounting (could also stun golems) (the projectile could be a rope with two weights at the ends, used to entangle legs).

[Zaraki.5784]

@Queen Anastasia.7103 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:Trap is fine but the dismount skill is a bad idea imho.

You haven't even bothered to give an opinion? I wish people would give constructive feedback on why they think dismount skill is a bad idea.

Players are doing either the following regarding mounts which is why there needs to be an opportunity to dismount players, especially if you're on a mount:

• running past each other entirely since who ever dismounts first is at an advantage
• heavily favors ranged classes since if you engage on a melee class your enemy who is most likely still mounted will either troll you with mount evades or just run away laughing
• hanging around like vultures not engaging in fights (literally being useless) because they want to
  fancy finish
  someone letting others do all the work for them prior

Hands down we need an appropriate way to dismount a player on a mount and as long as it dismounts both then combat can proceed as normal. I hope you understand this view point and reconsider why you think dismount skill is a 'bad idea'.

Well my only reason is because with warclaw I was finally able to run away from ganking class when they engaged me.

[martin.3692]

@Ahratan.1098 said:I don’t like the sound of the dismount trap or skill. The mount finally gave us a way to avoid pesky, cancer-spec gankers (perma stealthers and one shotters), and this change would undo it. Ofc gankers will just lay traps all over an area and wait for victims to troll - probably great fun for them, but super tedious for others.

One bug that actually needs fixing is stealth not being instantly removed when mounting.

That is part of the game mode wvw is not pvp

[Kiza.5630]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

• Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If there's gonna be a dismount skill it should dismount the attacker as well and have some way for the attacked to still avoid. By timing the dodge (which exhausts endurance) or another form of counter. Leaving the attacker dismounted.

Yeah I know "roaming". If I go there on a support spec and am ganked by a thief while trying to run I suck at playing. If I switch to mirage, fight back and hunt them down I suck because I chose a broken build ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Endeavour.4206]

I hope you also fix THE BUG THAT KICKS EVERYONE IN THE MAP FROM THE GAME AND PARTIALLY RESETS THE MAPI'm not going to say what it is in the forum, because I'd rather not see people abusing it and get disconnected from the game every 2 minutes.

[sephiroth.4217]

@"Glider.5792" said:The dismount trap shouldn't just dismount a single time, it should make a 2000-5000 radius nomount zone for next 1-2 minutes. Or to make it more simple, everyone cought in that radius when the trap goes off gets the "Cannot mount" debuff for next 1-2 minutes. This should apply to both enemies and allies.

Or.. just make 2 different traps:

• First dismounts only enemies and applies 30sec of "Cannot mount", smaller radius (around 1000)
• Second dismounts everyone and applies 1-2min of "Cannot mount" to all players, big radius (2000-5000) to promote a fight without the use of mounts

That would actually be pretty cool..A trap that dismounts enemies and allies within radius, a big radius.

[martin.3692]

@Kiza.5630 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

• Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

If there's gonna be a dismount skill it should dismount the attacker as well and have some way for the attacked to still avoid. By timing the dodge (which exhausts endurance) or another form of counter. Leaving the attacker dismounted.

Yeah I know "roaming". If I go there on a support spec and am ganked by a thief while trying to run I suck at playing. If I switch to mirage, fight back and hunt them down I suck because I chose a broken build ¯_(ツ)_/¯

No you're not just move with somebody next time. Yes you can play mirage as long as you want there's no rule against it, it will just be nerfed in the future

[Kiza.5630]

@martin.3692 said:

No you're not just move with somebody next time. Yes you can play mirage as long as you want there's no rule against it, it will just be nerfed in the future

You kinda missed the joke I was trying to make. :p

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Silver.2076 said:Basically I don't like the attitude that the smallest renewal is washed out immediately just because it prevents old behaviour - people become more open for new things!

To the entmount skill - sounds interesting, I would consider a short range of 300-600 appropriate, so that escape in occupied areas is still possible.

breakbar - I still don't know what this would be necessary for - the necessary damage to bring a player from the pet is my opinion completely sufficient. but as long as the breakbar can't be tilted by 1-2 players, yes, by me.

much more important to me are the bugfix things - that can't come fast enough!

This is a pretty fantastic point.In WvW people get angry that their favourite gamemode is not receiving changes and once they receive changes to revitalize some of the game play experience, it is met with hate because it changes a small aspect about what they were used to. You wanted change and then proceeded to throw hate and insults at Anets competence because you don't like the changes because you want changes that don't change anything.

[martin.3692]

@Kiza.5630 said:

@martin.3692 said:

No you're not just move with somebody next time. Yes you can play mirage as long as you want there's no rule against it, it will just be nerfed in the future

You kinda missed the joke I was trying to make. :p

an yes sorry about that did not notice i'm just on a frenzy here hating on people who don't get the true spirit of wvw

[b k.1648]

Removing the mount is not on the table. "But what about (other unrelated issue)" is also not useful in this thread. This is why developers prefer Reddit - irrelevant replies get filtered.

Ranged dismounts sound reasonable to me provided they're not completely unavoidable. There does need to be some counterplay to something that will inevitably be used for ganking, within reason. One of my major concerns with the WvW meta lately, separate to mounts, has been the amount of stuff you just can't effectively counter because it's either unblockable or spammed so fast that timing your counters becomes meaningless.

[Gaberen.4325]

Delete this cashgrab and focus on WvW not some fucking mount and if not give it 1 hp and max 2 dodges

[Booey Bubblehead.4890]

@Malfrador.3615 said:There is a lot of server side skill lags since the Warclaw got introduced. Before, there were lags when all 3 servers fought each other with 50+. Now there is a lot of lag even with only 2 servers and less than 100 people involved in the fight.Please fix.

Yes, address the LAG issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come play on reset Ben and see for yourself.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

Short-term

• We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
• We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
• Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

Medium to Long-term

• Working on a dismount trap
• Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

Even Longer term

• We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

In my opinion (repeat, only an opinion) if we will have a skill to dismount players, then the break bar on mounts is not a vital detail anymore. A separate skill with a channeling time is too complicated - I think the best variant may be to adjust the skill 1 to dismount a player if it lands against a mount.

The dismount trap is an absolute inutile add-on to the WvW. No matter if it uses or not resources to deploy. What is the follow-up after a player (or more) trigger a trap? They are dismounted. And then? They will mount again, no tactic or strategic advantage for the owner of the trap, only the frustration for the unlucky dismounted.

To have a follow up after dismounting a player using a trap you should stay araound the trap (you and your group, of course). This is a very suitable way to promote ganking. Not roaming - you should watch the trap, so in the same place :#. Or to place a lot of traps at the spawn point of a server during a large fight and to place a 5 man team waiting for them =). ANet, please don't bring us another useless device in WvW. Moreover, with a good trolling potential.

The dismount skill may resolve the problem with the mounts contesting camps by running in circle while the attackers cannot touch the runner. May resolve ... but a better way may be to prevent the mounted players to capture and to contest objectives. Any intention from ANet regarding this detail?