Kralkatorrik size

[Narcemus.1348]

I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:Thought it was never said in-game, and I think that's an important distinction. ANet's made it clear in the past that they'll try to respect anything in the product, but they aren't opposed to overturning developer statements when they get in the way of the story they want to tell... even if it'd be fairly simple to work around, like saying Primordus just changed shape.

I'm not entirely sure it wasn't. I'd bet there was an odd throwaway line confirming the statue to be an Elder Dragon.

But their claim was that "we never said it was Primordus" not "well we only said it was Primordus in interviews so doesn't count".

But by that argument, we/they can say their comment in Guild Chat is meaningless. It's not in-game after all!

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:This wouldn't be unprecedented. Remember when Drakkar was supposed to be Jormg, but then they turned it into a champion of Jormag, but then went on to say that Svanir was the first champion of Jormag?

Unlike Primordus, Drakkar actually never was said to be Jormag, and the distinction between the two was made fairly early (in 2011 iirc). Beyond the description of a concept art which showed Jormag in a lake, which was the origin of the idea behind Drakkar within Drakkar Lake, there wasn't even proper hints to it.

Though there are still in-game NPCs saying Jormag rose beneath Drakkar Lake, despite him rising to the far north of it.

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

[CharterforGw.3149]

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Jeeze, I thought they'd be a bit closer together. That size for Primordus definitely doesn't make any sense after all. Not unless he was a freakin bobblehead dragon. All of Kryta should have collapsed into a sinkhole when Primordus moved to the Ring of Fire.

Maybe Primordius is like a drake where the head is as big around as the body, while Kalk is more of a traditional dragon shape.

He was no such shape in GW1. I suspect he grew rather quickly as he sucked up the unbound magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth. We don't know what size he was before he moved south and although it seems a rather large growth in a very short period of time, the fact that he grew to this immense size close by to the Ring Of Fire would seem to be the most logical explanation as to why a being of that size didn't cause what Konig has suggested should have happened.

During the

Guild Chat

following Flashpoint (about 33:28), they kind of suggest that the devs have decided what we see in EotN wasn't Primordus after all, just a champion. It's something they brush past without much fanfare, but it's enough to say that we can't use the GW1 statue as a basis anymore.

If the statue is like Drakkar then we now know that Primordius only woke up because a Great Destroyer woke it up after the first one failed to do the job. Seems as if Kralkatorrik is the only Elder Dragon that didn't get assistance to wake up at any point.

Kralkatorrik woke up from all the noise that the other dragons were making, no wonder he seemed so pissed off at the end of PoF

[Mickey Frogeater.1470]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

Never hurts to have a backup disguised as a Statue that creates Magic for Primordius. It also never hurts for the Great Destroyer to turn a Magic Statue of Glint(the guy interviewed never said what that thing was after all) into a new Champion upon death(Champions can serve as conduits to create new Champions should the Elder Dragon find it necessary as seen with Drakkar and the Nornbear). As seen with Scarlet Briar the Dragon Champions do use even uncorrupted tools to ensure their master's awakening including ones that work even when they themselves are dead.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

Never hurts to have a backup disguised as a Statue that creates Magic for Primordius. It also never hurts for the Great Destroyer to turn a Magic Statue of Glint(the guy interviewed never said what that thing was after all) into a new Champion upon death(Champions can serve as conduits to create new Champions should the Elder Dragon find it necessary as seen with Drakkar and the Nornbear). As seen with Scarlet Briar the Dragon Champions do use even uncorrupted tools to ensure their master's awakening including ones that work even when they themselves are dead.

That statue was 100% a living being, as we see it open its eyes at the end of Heart of Thorns. And some interviews did call the statue Primordus (not always by name). Besides which the statue did exactly what Elder Dragons were stated to do - practically bleed magic while asleep - and multiple interviews said the CTC was built next to an Elder Dragon, just like Arah was built atop of one.

Scarlet Briar - and all sylvari really - are unconventional dragon minions so using them as an example is more than not an inaccurate comparison.

[Narcemus.1348]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

Never hurts to have a backup disguised as a Statue that creates Magic for Primordius. It also never hurts for the Great Destroyer to turn a Magic Statue of Glint(the guy interviewed never said what that thing was after all) into a new Champion upon death(Champions can serve as conduits to create new Champions should the Elder Dragon find it necessary as seen with Drakkar and the Nornbear). As seen with Scarlet Briar the Dragon Champions do use even uncorrupted tools to ensure their master's awakening including ones that work even when they themselves are dead.

That statue was 100% a living being, as we see it open its eyes at the end of

Heart of Thorns

. And some interviews did call the statue Primordus (not always by name). Besides which the statue did exactly what Elder Dragons were stated to do - practically bleed magic while asleep - and multiple interviews said the CTC was built next to an Elder Dragon, just like Arah was built atop of one.

Scarlet Briar - and all sylvari really - are unconventional dragon minions so using them as an example is more than not an inaccurate comparison.

*Eye of the North

[Fenom.9457]

@Narcemus.1348 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

Never hurts to have a backup disguised as a Statue that creates Magic for Primordius. It also never hurts for the Great Destroyer to turn a Magic Statue of Glint(the guy interviewed never said what that thing was after all) into a new Champion upon death(Champions can serve as conduits to create new Champions should the Elder Dragon find it necessary as seen with Drakkar and the Nornbear). As seen with Scarlet Briar the Dragon Champions do use even uncorrupted tools to ensure their master's awakening including ones that work even when they themselves are dead.

That statue was 100% a living being, as we see it open its eyes at the end of

Heart of Thorns

. And some interviews did call the statue Primordus (not always by name). Besides which the statue did exactly what Elder Dragons were stated to do - practically bleed magic while asleep - and multiple interviews said the CTC was built next to an Elder Dragon, just like Arah was built atop of one.

Scarlet Briar - and all sylvari really - are unconventional dragon minions so using them as an example is more than not an inaccurate comparison.

*Eye of the North

I for one totally remember seeing primordus asleep across the world hundreds of years after he woke up. Don't you?

[Mickey Frogeater.1470]

@Fenom.9457 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

Never hurts to have a backup disguised as a Statue that creates Magic for Primordius. It also never hurts for the Great Destroyer to turn a Magic Statue of Glint(the guy interviewed never said what that thing was after all) into a new Champion upon death(Champions can serve as conduits to create new Champions should the Elder Dragon find it necessary as seen with Drakkar and the Nornbear). As seen with Scarlet Briar the Dragon Champions do use even uncorrupted tools to ensure their master's awakening including ones that work even when they themselves are dead.

That statue was 100% a living being, as we see it open its eyes at the end of

Heart of Thorns

. And some interviews did call the statue Primordus (not always by name). Besides which the statue did exactly what Elder Dragons were stated to do - practically bleed magic while asleep - and multiple interviews said the CTC was built next to an Elder Dragon, just like Arah was built atop of one.

Scarlet Briar - and all sylvari really - are unconventional dragon minions so using them as an example is more than not an inaccurate comparison.

*Eye of the North

I for one totally remember seeing primordus asleep across the world hundreds of years after he woke up. Don't you?

Which would mean that Primordius was close either to the statue which woke after the Great Destroyer died or the Central Transfer Chamber itself one would think as ArenaNet already stated that the Asura built the Central Transfer Chamber right next to him.

[Crinn.7864]

Maybe the Central Transfer Chamber is actually inside of Primordius's nostril.

[Fenom.9457]

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I just find it a strange idea that the great destroyer was in the chamber with a second sleeping dragon champion? It just seems weird.

Especially since the Great Destroyer's role was to "prepare the way for Primordus" and wake it up.

Never hurts to have a backup disguised as a Statue that creates Magic for Primordius. It also never hurts for the Great Destroyer to turn a Magic Statue of Glint(the guy interviewed never said what that thing was after all) into a new Champion upon death(Champions can serve as conduits to create new Champions should the Elder Dragon find it necessary as seen with Drakkar and the Nornbear). As seen with Scarlet Briar the Dragon Champions do use even uncorrupted tools to ensure their master's awakening including ones that work even when they themselves are dead.

That statue was 100% a living being, as we see it open its eyes at the end of

Heart of Thorns

. And some interviews did call the statue Primordus (not always by name). Besides which the statue did exactly what Elder Dragons were stated to do - practically bleed magic while asleep - and multiple interviews said the CTC was built next to an Elder Dragon, just like Arah was built atop of one.

Scarlet Briar - and all sylvari really - are unconventional dragon minions so using them as an example is more than not an inaccurate comparison.

*Eye of the North

I for one totally remember seeing primordus asleep across the world hundreds of years after he woke up. Don't you?

Which would mean that Primordius was close either to the statue which woke after the Great Destroyer died or the Central Transfer Chamber itself one would think as ArenaNet already stated that the Asura built the Central Transfer Chamber right next to him.

But for real, I think he was nearby, deeper still or in the rock near the caves or something. We know he didn't wake up immediately so the fact that thing's eyes opened kinda proves its not him, doesn't it?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Fenom.9457 said:But for real, I think he was nearby, deeper still or in the rock near the caves or something. We know he didn't wake up immediately so the fact that thing's eyes opened kinda proves its not him, doesn't it?

The Ogden's Benediction cinematic isn't taking place immediately after Eye of the North. It's a time skip, showing various things in the near future. Livia finding the Scepter of Orr being key about this, as she didn't even have it a year later during War in Kryta content.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Vyko.6953 said:here you are, all dragons! and one icing on the cake - that tiny stain above Primordus is Vlast.

Ahh yes, the good old power scaling issues caused by having to make each new threat bigger and badder then the last in order to try to justify why its a challenge to kill compared to the last one.

Though, trying to take Mordremoth's size is a bit complicated by the fact he is his corruption, so his body is basically all of his vies which stretch all across central Tyria.I feel like Mordremoth's real body, as much as he could be considered to have one, was the tree at the end of Dragon's Stand that the Mouth of Mordremoth is implicitly attached to.

[Fenom.9457]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:But for real, I think he was nearby, deeper still or in the rock near the caves or something. We know he didn't wake up immediately so the fact that thing's eyes opened kinda proves its not him, doesn't it?

The Ogden's Benediction cinematic isn't taking place immediately after Eye of the North. It's a time skip, showing various things in the near future. Livia finding the Scepter of Orr being key about this, as she didn't even have it a year later during War in Kryta content.

good point, but it still doesn't have to be the actual dragon does it?__

[Cobrakon.3108]

Someone Should do one of those "to scale" videos showing different starships but instead showing the diffferent Dragon sizes... and maybe a few starships as well XD.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

that hasbeen done, the mouth of primordus is HUGE.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

They're up on the wiki here and here (both made by Vyko, the one who started this thread), and there's also this image that compares dragons to other things (made by that_shaman).

[Lucius.2140]

Primordus can literally swallow Kralk, nice to know and as said before "that size is world ending". Probably could also swallow the Domain of the Wind or any mayor city, gogo Rata Sum.

[xoz.2481]

Most likely not the case but what if GW1 Primordus was actually Gw2 Primordus's tongue, xenomorph style.

[Yannir.4132]

@xoz.2481 said:Most likely not the case but what if GW1 Primordus was actually Gw2 Primordus's tongue, xenomorph style.

Fun idea but nah, he's just grown since then. Primordus has been awake and gorging on magic for 150 years now.

[Hesacon.8735]

Modremoth is the entire jungle. The boss at the end of Dragon's Stand is just the Mouth of Mordremoth.

[derd.6413]

am i the only one that saw the pic and imediatly thought: >! nom

[derd.6413]

am i the only one that saw the pic and imediatly thought:

! nom

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Hesacon.8735" said:Modremoth is the entire jungle. The boss at the end of Dragon's Stand is just the Mouth of Mordremoth.

Except you're incorrect, devs confirmed the situation.

Mordremoth's "main body" is the Mouth of Mordremoth, the vines are effectively "extra bodies", but that's the extent of Mordremoth. The jungle itself isn't Mordremoth, just the corrupted vines beneath the jungle.

[Castigator.3470]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Hesacon.8735" said:Modremoth

is

the entire jungle. The boss at the end of Dragon's Stand is just the Mouth of Mordremoth.

Except you're incorrect

, devs confirmed the situation.

Mordremoth's "main body" is the Mouth of Mordremoth, the vines are effectively "extra bodies", but that's the extent of Mordremoth. The jungle itself isn't Mordremoth, just the corrupted vines beneath the jungle.

Which is already large enough, as these things spread over to Fort Salma, and even past the Shiverpeaks into the Iron Marches. Mordremoth may not have the bulk of Primordus or Kralkatorrik, but Mordy is the elder dragon, whose body managed to stretch under significant amounts of central Tyria.Meanwhile Kralkatorrik has a more classical head, but how much of his body is a storm and how much of it is solid? To me it seems that the body of an elder dragon is actually mutable. This would explain how Primordus in GW1 looked like a fairly standard stone dragon, while in GW2 with all the extra magic, he grew his body to match the amount of available magic. Should the ambient magic recede, he'd have to resort to consuming his minions and eventually shedding parts of his overgrown body, until a compromise between bulk and sustainability is reached. After that, the elder dragons go to sleep, until the next fight/feast period begins.

The boost in magic would also explain how Kralkatorrik was able to cover the entire screen as a stormfront in Storm Tracking. (A most appropriately named mission.)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Castigator.3470 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Hesacon.8735" said:Modremoth

is

the entire jungle. The boss at the end of Dragon's Stand is just the Mouth of Mordremoth.

Except you're incorrect

, devs confirmed the situation.

Mordremoth's "main body" is the Mouth of Mordremoth, the vines are effectively "extra bodies", but that's the extent of Mordremoth. The jungle itself isn't Mordremoth, just the corrupted vines beneath the jungle.

Which is already large enough, as these things spread over to Fort Salma, and even past the Shiverpeaks into the Iron Marches. Mordremoth may not have the bulk of Primordus or Kralkatorrik, but Mordy is the elder dragon, whose body managed to stretch under significant amounts of central Tyria.Meanwhile Kralkatorrik has a more classical head, but how much of his body is a storm and how much of it is solid? To me it seems that the body of an elder dragon is actually mutable. This would explain how Primordus in GW1 looked like a fairly standard stone dragon, while in GW2 with all the extra magic, he grew his body to match the amount of available magic. Should the ambient magic recede, he'd have to resort to consuming his minions and eventually shedding parts of his overgrown body, until a compromise between bulk and sustainability is reached. After that, the elder dragons go to sleep, until the next fight/feast period begins.

The boost in magic would also explain how Kralkatorrik was able to cover the entire screen as a stormfront in Storm Tracking. (A most appropriately named mission.)

I don't disagree with your point of Mordremoth. I was just clarifying that Mordremoth isn't "the entire jungle" or the implication that the Mouth of Mordremoth isn't Mordremoth. Though it's less of one body and more of many bodies for Mordy.

As for Kralkatorrik's body, the ending cinematic of Path of Fire shows a silhouette of Kralk's body, which includes a very Shatterer-looking body overall (shattered wings, etc.). We see the clear outline of a classical European body. We even see his back in GW1, though that looked a lot more fleshy (which matches Edge of Destiny's description of him). That said, in Edge of Destiny as well as the final instance of Ep4, Kralkatorrik turns his body into a giant sandstorm (and I do mean giant, jeez), so his body is malleable to some degree.

And I'll disagree with semantics over Primordus looking "standard" to not looking standard. His GW2 appearance was a complete stereotypical lava dragon appearance to me, while in GW1 he had tendrils coming out of his shoulders.

I do hope that they go with the whole "Elder Dragons grow in size and become more elemental as they gain more magic". It would alleviate the way-too-drastic changes in appearance for Primordus and Kralkatorrik between the games, and help explain how Primordus didn't cause the entire continent to collapse as he moved underneath, if he was smaller when moving.