Please delete unstoppable union

[sephiroth.4217]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Edge.8724 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:

@"Derm.4932" said:This adept trait literally nullifies the entire point of projectile hate against the class where you need to make use of it the most.Spammable unblockable bursts from range was too strong on deadeye, and it's too strong on soulbeast(

for the effort provided

) as well.

Where there is projectile hate, there needs to be a counter too. That's exactly what is going on. Don't be too greedy. Scrappers are still too hard to kill. Other balanced professions like warrior are doing just fine with their abilities.

Ok where is my "remove unblockable effects" skill?

Unblockable needs to be toned down as well.

Speaking subjectively here, of course, but I think it will only help the game's health to have less of these effects.

My Tempest hates it...Engage longbow ranger > use magnetic Auras > die to unblockable rapid fire.He countered my counter ?

A ranger will always be the least of the worries for an ele in general, the ranger is in fact the only counter to what currently kills tempest viability in PvP

Must be my build because Mesmers, necros or anything packing condition damage is the least of my worries...

Sic Em Rangers and SB are my kryptonite, that high unblockable burst damage and CC spam always has me on my toes lol

I find ranger builds predictable but that may be because I played one for thousand of hours, on ele if there is one class I can kill consistently ( save the few skilled ones ) is ranger followed by thief.(been duelling thieves for years , I don't play one but know their class)..everything else is an uphill battle

Yea my Ranger has about 2k hours on it but I dumped it when they overbuffed longbow by adding stealth and removed the sword auto attack lock on it used to have.Most thieves are easy to me too, static aura is like my best friend there.

It may be in the builds though, I run Fire/Air celestial most days.

Even with that said I don't see nearly as many rangers as condi mirages/chrono/scourge - scrappers and holosmith..if anything I know I will never see a stacked team of longbow rangers and that should be maybe a clear indication of what broken in this game:

https://imgur.com/a/DbLCOqK

Which is why my build is designed around those classes so definitely a build thing for me

You got me thinking about my old ranger days now... sword/axe and axe/Wh with an almighty brown bear lmao

It must be the case

Yea but it still doesn't deter my original point about unblockables going strait through magnetic aura.My counter to projectiles has a counter ?Was a good chat nonetheless

[Quadox.7834]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Edge.8724 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:

@"Derm.4932" said:This adept trait literally nullifies the entire point of projectile hate against the class where you need to make use of it the most.Spammable unblockable bursts from range was too strong on deadeye, and it's too strong on soulbeast(

for the effort provided

) as well.

Where there is projectile hate, there needs to be a counter too. That's exactly what is going on. Don't be too greedy. Scrappers are still too hard to kill. Other balanced professions like warrior are doing just fine with their abilities.

Ok where is my "remove unblockable effects" skill?

Unblockable needs to be toned down as well.

Speaking subjectively here, of course, but I think it will only help the game's health to have less of these effects.

My Tempest hates it...Engage longbow ranger > use magnetic Auras > die to unblockable rapid fire.He countered my counter ?

A ranger will always be the least of the worries for an ele in general, the ranger is in fact the only counter to what currently kills tempest viability in PvP

Must be my build because Mesmers, necros or anything packing condition damage is the least of my worries...

Sic Em Rangers and SB are my kryptonite, that high unblockable burst damage and CC spam always has me on my toes lol

I find ranger builds predictable but that may be because I played one for thousand of hours, on ele if there is one class I can kill consistently ( save the few skilled ones ) is ranger followed by thief.(been duelling thieves for years , I don't play one but know their class)..everything else is an uphill battle

Yea my Ranger has about 2k hours on it but I dumped it when they overbuffed longbow by adding stealth and removed the sword auto attack lock on it used to have.Most thieves are easy to me too, static aura is like my best friend there.

It may be in the builds though, I run Fire/Air celestial most days.

Even with that said I don't see nearly as many rangers as condi mirages/chrono/scourge - scrappers and holosmith..if anything I know I will never see a stacked team of longbow rangers and that should be maybe a clear indication of what broken in this game:

https://imgur.com/a/DbLCOqK

Which is why my build is designed around those classes so definitely a build thing for me

You got me thinking about my old ranger days now... sword/axe and axe/Wh with an almighty brown bear lmao

It must be the case

Yea but it still doesn't deter my original point about unblockables going strait through magnetic aura.My counter to projectiles has a counter ?Was a good chat nonetheless

That's why I suggested adding a new skills that removes unblockable effects. I mean, we already got "remove reveal".

[Euthymias.7984]

The popularity of Earth Runes in tandem with the current Projectile defenses would surely be "fun" to deal with should it be removed./s

[Master Ketsu.4569]

I was wondering how long it would take for people to notice this trait is busted and way out of line when compared to similar traits. Was something I saw when PoF was released and thought to myself "If Soulbeast ever gets buffed to be not-trash people are going to be complaining about UU because dat sheit be broke yo."

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Counters to counters is a bad design. This game fails from the ground in that regard, ANet tried to make a clever mind play battle system and instead created a mess of bandaids.If you're going to create a remove unblockable effect to counter unblockables you'll later add a immune to remove unblockable effect, it's what ANet always does in gw2.

Reduce drastically the amount of reflects/blocks and delete unblockables would be the best approach.

[Quadox.7834]

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Counters to counters is a bad design. This game fails from the ground in that regard, ANet tried to make a clever mind play battle system and instead created a mess of bandaids.If you're going to create a remove unblockable effect to counter unblockables you'll later add a immune to remove unblockable effect, it's what ANet always does in gw2.

Reduce drastically the amount of reflects/blocks and delete unblockables would be the best approach.

Yeah I wasn't being serious, just making fun of the way this game is "balanced" via powercreep.

[incisorr.9502]

1st of all

unstoppable union is a hard counter to me and i don't play sb

2nd

this is the problem with this game, every time a class gets something good you have a bunch of ppl crying for rework. Wtf? Unstoppable union is just fine, the problem is sickem and not unstoppable union by itself. At most i can see it getting increased cd , nerfing its duration is literally butchering the skill. People in this forum dont even try to be rational and reasonabledont like something? DELETE THE MECHANIC XD

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I think the combination of range,dps thru modifiers and union providing unblockable attacks are the problem.unblickable skill in melee being in a pvp game itself can be question but an unblockable that can take more than 50% of it health in press of button with short cool down on rapid fire at 1500 or more is obsurd. skills given to ranger with the range it have should have been balanced better. Rapid fire for example should a had longer cd,damage low on all hits and last hit carries the most dps allowing more counterplay.stealth shouldn't have been added etc. Too many of rangers skills synergize together to take them into the OP range,synergize are great but need balanced around. Sic em needs to be reduced to 25% considering RI was to high for guard lol. Regardless unblockable at 1500 + range is kinda silly regardless of dps.

[Derm.4932]

@"Euthymias.7984" said:The popularity of Earth Runes in tandem with the current Projectile defenses would surely be "fun" to deal with should it be removed./s

The reflect part of earth runes is getting removed tho...

[Quadox.7834]

@incisorr.9502 said:1st of all

unstoppable union is a hard counter to me and i don't play sb

2nd

this is the problem with this game, every time a class gets something good you have a bunch of ppl crying for rework. kitten? Unstoppable union is just fine, the problem is sickem and not unstoppable union by itself. At most i can see it getting increased cd , nerfing its duration is literally butchering the skill. People in this forum dont even try to be rational and reasonabledont like something? DELETE THE MECHANIC XD

Wrong.

[FyzE.3472]

No "jUsT DoDge 4hEaD" comments yet? Wow!

[Eurantien.4632]

Is the problem unstoppable union, or the fact you can use unstoppable union AND sic em?

Because ranger does need some sort of unblockable.

[melandru.3876]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Is the problem unstoppable union, or the fact you can use unstoppable union AND sic em?

Because ranger does need some sort of unblockable.

don't they have enough sources allready (if taken?)

horn 5 (if merged) 4 secondsclarrion bond (if taken marksmanship) very nasty when swapping to smokescale and having unblockable takedown + smoke assaultunstoppable union (if taken soulbeast)signet of the hunt (rarely of ever taken, still 6 seconds unblockable)

but no, lets have one if not the strongest and most broken minor trait out there that is not only a stunbreak, but also unblockable for 4 seconds on a 10 second cooldown

why not give rev legend swap stunbreak + 4 seconds unblockable? that would be fun

[Eurantien.4632]

Signet of the hunt is a utility that you can't really afford to take.

Call of the Wild is a 30s cd and you have to be merged which isn't ideal as sword and axe mainhand aren't gonna do much anyway.

Clarion bond is if you take marksmanship which almost nobody runs and it's only for your pet.

None of the ranger skills are unblockable except traps, which aren't viable.

Ranger really has no active answer to blocks without it. And for rev, rev already has good ways of dealing with blocks with its traits and utilities.

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

@Derm.4932 said:

@"Euthymias.7984" said:The popularity of Earth Runes in tandem with the current Projectile defenses would surely be "fun" to deal with should it be removed./s

The reflect part of earth runes is getting removed tho...

whats the % right now?

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Signet of the hunt is a utility that you can't really afford to take.

Call of the Wild is a 30s cd and you have to be merged which isn't ideal as sword and axe mainhand aren't gonna do much anyway.

Clarion bond is if you take marksmanship which almost nobody runs and it's only for your pet.

None of the ranger skills are unblockable except traps, which aren't viable.

Ranger really has no active answer to blocks without it. And for rev, rev already has good ways of dealing with blocks with its traits and utilities.

tbf a rifle de only has a 1 hit "unblockable in the form of an elite now and imo soulbeast hits just as hard with that opening burst and can do it more often should de get its unblockable deaths judgement back?

[Quadox.7834]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Is the problem unstoppable union, or the fact you can use unstoppable union AND sic em?

Because ranger does need some sort of unblockable.

I would say that the problem is unstoppable union on its own.

[Eurantien.4632]

@melandru.3876 said:the low cooldown aswell is pretty lame

4 secs unblockable on 10 seconds cooldown, that's nearly a 50% upkeepwho even comes up with such designs

When you merge you have a second where you can't unmerge, after unmerging, you have 10s where you can't merge. That is 11s.

4/11 = 0.36. That's a 36% uptime if used everytime off cool down. That's a lot of time people have to block things or projectile hate still. I'm not opposed to reducing the number of hits or the time a little. But being the only dps spec that can have its damage be 100% nullified by a team with projectile hate is insane, and ranger has to have some reliable active answers for that.

[melandru.3876]

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Signet of the hunt is a utility that you can't really afford to take.

Call of the Wild is a 30s cd and you have to be merged which isn't ideal as sword and axe mainhand aren't gonna do much anyway.

Clarion bond is if you take marksmanship which almost nobody runs and it's only for your pet.

None of the ranger skills are unblockable except traps, which aren't viable.

Ranger really has no active answer to blocks without it. And for rev, rev already has good ways of dealing with blocks with its traits and utilities.

even sic'm is unblokcable tho, even if the tooltip doesn't say itinbefore "sic'em does no dmg so it can't be blokced"false, certain skills with zero damage/harm are also unblokcable

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockablehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Envoy_of_Exuberance or might want to explain how a heal is unblokcablewhat about entangle, also unblockable and yes it's used in some ws builds i've fought

[Eurantien.4632]

These skills aren't unblockable in the same way. Sic em is unblockable in that the application of it can't be blocked. You don't get unblockable hits from it.

Entangle is unblockable meaning if someone is in the roots and blocks they remain entangled. However, the initial application can be blocked, that means entangle cannot be used to counter a block.

Envoy is maybe a tooltip error.

[Kovu.7560]

If you're popping into and out of beastmode entirely for the unblockable facet you're not making the most of the specialization's abilities (i.e. the synergy gained by utilizing the mechanics normally restricted to your pet and the skills tied to beastmode itself). On top of that if you're spamming it on cooldown you're certainly not using it for the stun break. (Heck, you probably aren't anyway.) 36% uptime is just another example of an extreme you'll almost never see in actual play. Like 40k attacks.But hey, I use Fresh Reinforcement, so whatever floats your boats.

~ Kovu

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

Two scenarios with risk(afaik):While dueling on a sidenode, you fight some bunker build and found it frustrating and couldn't kill them... You unmerge and swap pets and wait 10sec for that 4 sec burst and they could Dodge or evade it altogether...

While sniping mid, if you plan on abusing unblockable, it's just a matter of time until someone puts a Target on your head... But on the bright side, you get to kill atleast one guy

[lightningz.1465]

Sic'em and unstoppable union needed to bop that scrapper, one of the reason why many soulbeast switch from boonbeast to sic'em sniper..hope anet doesn't nerf it to oblivion..

[Derm.4932]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@melandru.3876 said:the low cooldown aswell is pretty lame

4 secs unblockable on 10 seconds cooldown, that's nearly a 50% upkeepwho even comes up with such designs

When you merge you have a second where you can't unmerge, after unmerging, you have 10s where you can't merge. That is 11s.

4/11 = 0.36. That's a 36% uptime if used everytime off cool down. That's a lot of time people have to block things or projectile hate still. I'm not opposed to reducing the number of hits or the time a little.

But during that downtime its mostly autos which aren't worth wasting your projectile hate on. No one cares about that. The issue has always been the absolute braindead pswap merge sicem 4 2 combo which is enough to 100-0 most classes, from 1500 range, while having minimal telegraphs, and yet is one of the easiest combos you can do. A burst that strong and that easy to pull off should have counters, but so long as unstoppable union exists in the way it does, projectile hate will never be relevant in that matchup because you can make every 4 2 combo unblockable.

But being the only dps spec that can have its damage be 100% nullified by a team with projectile hate is insane, and ranger has to have some reliable active answers for that.

Remember during the early post PoF days, before Death's Judgement was unblockable, and before Deadeye got stealth on dodge, we had tons of rifle and p/p deadeyes running around ranked killing people in half a second and being super aids just by spamming 3? Projectile hate didn't stop them from doing that. Why would it nullify Sic Em Ranger?

I'm not against Ranger having unblockable, but if it's at the level that UU is at right now, there needs to be some serious investment. And simply shaving 1, even 2 seconds off isn't going to change it's dynamic, because it's still enough to cover every 4 2 combo. An alternative is to change it to next 2-3 attacks are unblockable. You would not be able to cover the entirety of the LB combo, but you can pull off some skillful interrupts/mauls/worldly impacts.

[Eurantien.4632]

I wasn't around in early PoF days. But I think thief has less issue with projectile hate because of their mobility. It is a lot easier for them to just port around it, port to someone who isn't protected, or do the damage before the reflects come up. Soulbeast has a harder time because they lack that mobility work longbow. A guardian reflect wall is quite large and really hard to get around for a ranger because a lb ranger out of position is a free kill. Since ranger is kind of confined to the back lines, I think projectile hate is easier to use vs ranger.

That being said, the combo of 4 -> 2 on longbow, especially since with soulbeast it adds 12 -> 22% dmg from minor traits and oppressive superiority, it does make everything pretty oppressive between UU , those traits, and sic em. I do like the change to number of hits on UU because it would still have counterplay for ranger to deal with blocks but then the enemy can steal deal with it by maybe using stab to not get CC'd. + you would no longer get obliterated by rapid fire.

The thing is... sic em is probably getting nerfed too. I'm wondering if sic em and UU nerfs is too much. Because despite what people say, power ranger isn't a top top tier dps due to its glaring weaknesses. Yeah, it works in solo queue. But once you go against a good duo or you're in a team setting. You can ven punished very hard. In my ideal world, easy to use burst combo on longbow with sic em and rapid fire would be nerfed, but that the ranger gets compensation somewhere else for something.