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Nerf Scrapper, Holosmith and Soulbeast/boonbeast already...


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@DragonSlayer.1087 said:If you’re gonna make a tradeoff, nerf the Soul Beast and the Scrapper. These specs have no actualy trade offs, just point blanks imba buffs.scrapper is on the chopping block and a few others too@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:In the case of elite specializations like druid, herald, chronomancer, berserker, or scrapper, this type of trade-off isn't possible because the specialization adds a completely new ability. With this update, we're targeting a few elite specializations to receive trade-offs, and we expect to continue doing this in future updates.

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Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

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@DragonSlayer.1087 said:If you’re gonna make a tradeoff, nerf the Soul Beast and the Scrapper. These specs have no actualy trade offs, just point blanks imba buffs.

Scrapper trade off is no damage. High dps specs and stuns can demolish scrapper in seconds. Sic em ranger can kill scrapper on basically every other skill, warrior, reaper stun and dps, one shot Chrono, rev etc etc. It also has very low mobility. What about super speed? You only getting it if you pop your gyro. N it's 5 seconds per gyro. No scrapper is gonna pop both gyros and run to node. U will be a sitting duck. Literally every other classes movement speed or just swiftness is faster.

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@Auburner.6945 said:Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

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@TorQ.7041 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

First of, you need to clearly understand that there is a difference between good DPS and good damage. If you can't see a difference between both, then you clearly won't understand my point.

For d/p thief, I don't complain about anythig except how you can be so mobile and deal good damage with shadowsteps. It depends on class though, I am speaking from a weaver PoV, which clearly shows the lack of mobility and burst as others do, surely a one-trick full DPS herald can just Sword 3 and the thief drops dead, but that's not my point.

Lastly, I see using the skill level in such arguments already shows how lacking someone can be as they didn't state my point wrong, just went on with mockery and down-grading. Don't mean to be rude, but at least be professional when making fun of someone, if the points were valid still.

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@Auburner.6945 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

First of, you need to clearly understand that there is a difference between good DPS and good damage. If you can't see a difference between both, then you clearly won't understand my point.

For d/p thief, I don't complain about anythig except how you can be so mobile and deal good damage with shadowsteps. It depends on class though, I am speaking from a weaver PoV, which clearly shows the lack of mobility and burst as others do, surely a one-trick full DPS herald can just Sword 3 and the thief drops dead, but that's not my point.

Lastly, I see using the skill level in such arguments already shows how lacking someone can be as they didn't state my point wrong, just went on with mockery and down-grading. Don't mean to be rude, but at least be professional when making fun of someone, if the points were valid still.

If you are getting hit by a scrapper in the first place u shldnt... It's basic mechanics.... Even then Scrapper dmg doesn't go past even 2k. Skill 2 is the biggest dmg in conjunction with skill 5 with causes brutal bolts might hit a light armor class for 3k. Even then it's a giant circle with a circle bubble. If u can't dodge a slow animation that has a giant ring and a giant circular bubble... I don't know what to say..if u r hurt by a scrapper... My point was. So what if it does dmg... It's basically nothing. U want it to do zero? It's basically so low u have to stand still on him to die. If that's not a learn to play issue I don't know what is.

Thief dmg?The damage is not good. Back stab does 6k... The only time a backstab is good is if you take assassin sig which then removes a slot for stun break. it's not just herald. Every class does far more dmg than a 1 hit gimmick. Sic em ranger on zerk amulet has the same hp as a Marauder thief. But does 35k bursts. 6k auto attacks. It's auto attack is basically stronger than backstab

Ok it seems you are instantly offended. There's no point in this discussion lol. Since u think 500-2k dmg by a scrapper is strong. N u r complaining about it. When literally it doesn't do any damage. The only time u would really consider that to be high is if you are full glass. Then that's your own fault.

Go on meta battle. Go look at builds. Understand neither of the builds you are complaining about is meta. Go on twitch Watch higher level games. See that no 1 is having your problems at that lvl.

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@TorQ.7041 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

First of, you need to clearly understand that there is a difference between good DPS and good damage. If you can't see a difference between both, then you clearly won't understand my point.

For d/p thief, I don't complain about anythig except how you can be so mobile and deal good damage with shadowsteps. It depends on class though, I am speaking from a weaver PoV, which clearly shows the lack of mobility and burst as others do, surely a one-trick full DPS herald can just Sword 3 and the thief drops dead, but that's not my point.

Lastly, I see using the skill level in such arguments already shows how lacking someone can be as they didn't state my point wrong, just went on with mockery and down-grading. Don't mean to be rude, but at least be professional when making fun of someone, if the points were valid still.

If you are getting hit by a scrapper in the first place u shldnt... It's basic mechanics.... Even then Scrapper dmg doesn't go past even 2k. Skill 2 is the biggest dmg in conjunction with skill 5 with causes brutal bolts might hit a light armor class for 3k. Even then it's a giant circle with a circle bubble. If u can't dodge a slow animation that has a giant ring and a giant circular bubble... I don't know what to say..if u r hurt by a scrapper... My point was. So what if it does dmg... It's basically nothing. U want it to do zero? It's basically so low u have to stand still on him to die. If that's not a learn to play issue I don't know what is.

Thief dmg?The damage is not good. Back stab does 6k... The only time a backstab is good is if you take assassin sig which then removes a slot for stun break. it's not just herald. Every class does far more dmg than a 1 hit gimmick. Sic em ranger on zerk amulet has the same hp as a Marauder thief. But does 35k bursts. 6k auto attacks. It's auto attack is basically stronger than backstab

Ok it seems you are instantly offended. There's no point in this discussion lol. Since u think 500-2k dmg by a scrapper is strong. N u r complaining about it. When literally it doesn't do any damage. The only time u would really consider that to be high is if you are full glass. Then that's your own fault.

Go on meta battle. Go look at builds. Understand neither of the builds you are complaining about is meta. Go on twitch Watch higher level games. See that no 1 is having your problems at that lvl.

Scrapper's good damage isn't just a big giant circle, that skill is nothing but Static Field of Staff, no on would stand in it... or get stunned by it. You know it isn't one skill, you know it has follow up, also, you know that it can counter boonbeast and LB SB, which you are talking about how dumb they are. In fact I like fighting boonbeast and LB SB on weaver, they are considered of the easiest to fight for me, unlike most complains, so should I now run into the forums and tell everyone L2P like you do, I can beat the unbeatable on the worst class in duels already (shall we have a poll on which is worst, we all know the answer already). But you don't see me using the L2P card, just like you did. You can go Marauder mix and pop up Elixir Gun (maybe Elixir U as well) with some Gyros and you're already set to sustain and win most duels, because the class is good, not because the players is top tier.

I just got hit by an 11k backstab while on a 1400 toughness weaver while chilling with my roaming group, so it's not really 6k as you say, actually you give too much to make up such play, though I am against oneshots because it's unhealthy for the game. However, I didn't mention backstab in the whole argument, I only mentioned crazy mobility with good damage, which is clearly a dueling build, not backstb one-trick. Now you using Sic'Em SB as a fortifying point, but I already spoke about how dumb it is in the very first point of my very first comment. And for every class that does far more damage, have you fought a bunker weaver before? kitten hits like noodle, you know camp NPCs hit harder, I can stay afk and they won't kill me while already running full glass (full zerk to make it clearer) staff backline.

For going on metbattle and twitch, you know, I don't make something out of streamers as many do, also builds are situational, in LoL, a single 2min farm item can change the whole pace of the game, so don't make fun of small things. I played LoL for 8 years, and I was still able to pick mistakes on no.1 player in the world... ask any LoL player, they will already tell you he's a god, even ask pros on his same league level, they were like watching low elos trying to get promoted, and he approved of them as mistakes, so the gods we try to create of streamers, is clearly wrong. Fame doesn't all of a sudden increase your skill level to over 9000. You know, a LoL streamer at the highest rank on main account, wasn't able to pass low elo on an alt, in fact they went on a 23 lose streak, but they had 20k+ viewers at that time, so this also proves how we make streamers so big. I don't mean to say they are bad, there are better, same level and maybe worse than I? Sure, 8 billion humans in the world, why should one be considered top level because of fame?

And for salt, nah, not my style, begone of it already. What's the point of whining and mocking others only for pixelated figures?

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  • 2 weeks later...

PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

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@dodgerrule.8739 said:Those classes are easy to kill. Don’t burst them down and you will be fine. Their abilities all have long cooldowns.

Soul beast does have a trade off of no extra pet damage when in beast mode

Yeah and the bonus of all the pet buffs if the pet is merged with them.I main ranger and I know soulbeast doesn't really have a down side.Pets are unreliable and mainly live for aggro sponging and the F2 (which are often lackluster).Replace petswap with beastmode and soulbeast has a good trade off.

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@DragonSlayer.1087 said:If you’re gonna make a tradeoff, nerf the Soul Beast and the Scrapper. These specs have no actualy trade offs, just point blanks imba buffs.

hm soulbeast actually has a fairly big tradeoff.... as long as you are merged with your pet for extra stats you completely lose your pet with all its abilites.

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Soulbeast tradeoff:Soulbeast can only use one pet, pet swap synergy traits are procced by merge/unmerge.OrSoulbeast can no longer merge if the pet is dead; so you actually have a reason to attack and kill the pet to make him lose merge synergy.Or both.

Holosmith tradeoff:Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.So you remove the spammable component of it.

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How about this: allow Soulbeast to heal their pets by 5% of damage dealt while the pet is alive. If the pet falls, you'll lose the ability to merge with it, which means that the class will keep its pet swap, but now pet swapping will be a must. If a pet has fallen, it now heals by 40% of outgoing damage, whether you're using the same pet, or swapped to the other, as the trait proc's 5% for the live and 40% for the fallen.

Let's say the pet has 20k hp. You will deal something like 3k per hit, 1200 healing per hit for a fallen pet, which is ~17 hits before the pet is back up, no matter the pet currently in use.

This is a raw example, numbers could be changed.

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@Fantasylife.7981 said:These mainly are out of control way too strong you can find multiple forum post or players on stream, ingame just complaining and asking for nerfs on these. I suggest you get a touch on these before doing any other balance changes.

Hello there :)

Please notice that I read your post and the comments above, as you can see many players disagree and with good reasons, scrapper is not over power, but playable again, it's role is still finding the right path but is going somewhere now.

I found your post a total disgrace !

Before you post an ask for a nerf , remember that this kind of attitude result on a class destruction, and scrapper was destroyed for years until march 2019 !

Here , I found a very constructive post on engineer forum , I hope it helps you to learn how to play against scrapper :)

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

Dealing with scrapper isn't actually all that hard when you know their vulnerabilities, particularly the common "tank" build you see nowadays.

  1. Low access to stability. The only guaranteed stability that scrapper has comes from defense field. Once you see that stability disappear, CC to your heart's content. Most scrapper builds only have one stunbreak, which is also on a fairly long cooldown.
  2. Spike damage is very effective when bulwark gyro is on cooldown. You can tell bulwark gyro has been used because you'll see a massive surge in barrier. Once that barrier is gone, go to town on DPS.
  3. Condi, currently, doesn't do much against scrapper. Sorry.
  4. They should be your last target. Focus on high damage targets first, and leave the scrapper for last.
  5. Scrapper isn't super mobile. You have to burn gyros to get superspeed, or burn lightning field to get swiftness. If you have two points, don't bother with attacking the scrapper on the other point. Just rotate around it so that the enemy team is always 4v5.
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@migcun.5240 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:
Soulbeast
tradeoff:Soulbeast can only use one pet, pet swap synergy traits are procced by merge/unmerge.OrSoulbeast can no longer merge if the pet is dead; so you actually have a reason to attack and kill the pet to make him lose merge synergy.Or both.

Holosmith
tradeoff:Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.So you remove the spammable component of it.

Hello there :)

Please notice that I read your post and the comments above, as you can see many players disagree and with good reasons,
scrapper
is not over power, but playable again, it's role is still finding the right path but is going somewhere now.

I found your post a total disgrace !

Before you post an ask for a nerf , remember that this kind of attitude result on a class destruction, and
scrapper
was destroyed for years until march 2019 !

Here , I found a very constructive post on engineer forum , I hope it helps you to learn how to play against
scrapper
:)

I bolded words in my post and yours.You quote my post talking of scrapper when my nerfs suggestions were only about soulbeast and holosmith

Maybe some reading problems we have here?

Don't quote if you don't even read please, thanks.

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@"whoknocks.4935" said:Holosmith tradeoff:Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.So you remove the spammable component of it.

Will you give holosmith another health bar too?

:smile:

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