An idea for Servers being able to vote for which Borderland to call Home: Alpine or Desert.

[Syrus.2174]

This weekend I was on my server's home Desert Borderland, 11 AM. It was completly owned by the enemy teams, and I'm very much so certain I was the only player of my team playing there and I highly doubt there were many enemies there either, since I stopped being outnumbered when I finally met another person an hour later. All while we held a T1 or even T2 Stonemist in EB.I know, the server I play on is mainly fight orientated, which is why everyone tends to focus on EB most of the time ... and people despise the Desert borderland ...

Which made me wonder, why not let the players of a server choose which borderland they want to call home? Alpine or Desert. The red Alpine borderland still exists in the files, I assume, and even if not, it shouldn't be trouble to copy-paste it over, same for the Desert borderlands of other colors.

• My idea was to give everyone of a server the ability to vote for their preferred home borderland for the next matchup.

• The vote could be set at any time to either "Alpine", "Desert" or "No preference". (Your vote could be changed at any time, and would stay the same until changed manually, even on a new matchup.)

• It would only count if you completed at least the "wood division".

• It might also be an idea to make how much your vote counts dependend on which reward chest you finished, with "Wood" giving 1 vote-point, "Bronze" 2, "Silver" 3 and so on, so as to make those who spend more time in WvW have more of a say in the matter.

• An option could also be whether the vote would be a simple majority vote, or whether the next matchup's home map would be with a weighted randomized pick, like it happens in sPvP.

• It might be interesting to have an overview over the current vote status.

I'll be honest, I'm not fond of the Desert Borderland, and I strongly dislike how red team always has this map as their home. I know some servers prefer the map more than others, but for some servers this borderland is dead almost at all times. Overall I'd wish for a rework of the borderland, making it more like a flat desert with some Crystal Desert features or such, allowing for better fights with less cramped terrain and better designed objectives. I can imagine a lot of work was put into this map, but it just isn't working out. At least give us an option to opt out of the map as a server, to be able to play on Alpine borderland as home as red team, or to play Desert borderland as home as blue or green (highly doubt anyone would chose that, but heh).

So, yay or nay?It's less likely that Anet will rework the Desert borderland, I assume.To me it doesn't sound too hard to implement a voting system to let us choose.Hopefully this hasn't come up before, but who knows...it probably has.

[steki.1478]

You can already control which matchup you get next week and which color you take.

If you're capable of winning a matchup and end up being red next week, you should be capable enough of being 2nd. It's not like you gain something else from winning.

[Nagisa.8590]

I like the Desert Border (after the rework) yes the map had a rework

The Players votet for the lineup of the maps ( 2 Alpine and 1 Desert Map) i am not shure if the colour was in the vote.

I would be sad if your idea comes because i think no Server would really vote for the Desert Map because it feals like 80% of the People hate the Map and i donr even know really why . The Design is nice and if you explore the Map you know how to run and dorn have to whine sad you need a navy for the Map.

[Teon.5168]

@"Syrus.2174" said:This weekend I was on my server's home Desert Borderland, 11 AM. It was completly owned by the enemy teams, and I'm very much so certain I was the only player of my team playing there and I highly doubt there were many enemies there either, since I stopped being outnumbered when I finally met another person an hour later. All while we held a T1 or even T2 Stonemist in EB.I know, the server I play on is mainly fight orientated, which is why everyone tends to focus on EB most of the time ... and people despise the Desert borderland ...

Which made me wonder, why not let the players of a server choose which borderland they want to call home? Alpine or Desert. The red Alpine borderland still exists in the files, I assume, and even if not, it shouldn't be trouble to copy-paste it over, same for the Desert borderlands of other colors.

• My idea was to give everyone of a server the ability to vote for their preferred home borderland for the next matchup.

• The vote could be set at any time to either "Alpine", "Desert" or "No preference". (Your vote could be changed at any time, and would stay the same until changed manually, even on a new matchup.)

• It would only count if you completed at least the "wood division".

• It might also be an idea to make how much your vote counts dependend on which reward chest you finished, with "Wood" giving 1 vote-point, "Bronze" 2, "Silver" 3 and so on, so as to make those who spend more time in WvW have more of a say in the matter.

• An option could also be whether the vote would be a simple majority vote, or whether the next matchup's home map would be with a weighted randomized pick, like it happens in sPvP.

• It might be interesting to have an overview over the current vote status.

I'll be honest, I'm not fond of the Desert Borderland, and I strongly dislike how red team always has this map as their home. I know some servers prefer the map more than others, but for some servers this borderland is dead almost at all times. Overall I'd wish for a rework of the borderland, making it more like a flat desert with some Crystal Desert features or such, allowing for better fights with less cramped terrain and better designed objectives. I can imagine a lot of work was put into this map, but it just isn't working out. At least give us an option to opt out of the map as a server, to be able to play on Alpine borderland as home as red team, or to play Desert borderland as home as blue or green (highly doubt anyone would chose that, but heh).

So, yay or nay?It's less likely that Anet will rework the Desert borderland, I assume.To me it doesn't sound too hard to implement a voting system to let us choose.Hopefully this hasn't come up before, but who knows...it probably has.

Ugh, what a mess that would be. I don't think your idea would fly at all. All of us old timers remember what a complete mess it was here on the forums when we were voting on the land configurations when Desert was first made. No thanks, don't need that voting garbage, again....in game or out.

And count me as one of those players that really enjoys Desert borderlands.....spreads the zergs out and is a very fun map when you take the time to get to know it, imo.

And yea, when you're in some wvw pairings where the server populations aren't very good, desert can be quite abandoned.....but then again, so are the Alpine lands. Just the nature of the beast with low pop servers.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so the bigger server always gets alpine. naaaaahhhh.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Let’s talk logistics..

Who on the server can vote?

Does Anet send an email to every member of the server? And do you want that?

If it’s limited to ‘wvw’ players, how do you actually define that? One trip into WvW in the past week? Past 4 weeks?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:If it’s limited to ‘wvw’ players, how do you actually define that? One trip into WvW in the past week? Past 4 weeks?In the past, ANet's looked at the breakdown of voting and it has always turned out that the decision would change based on the definition of "WvW player."

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However, the membership of each world changes with each linkage, partly due to standings and matchups, partly due to attrition/interest levels varying across worlds. So "who votes" remains difficult to determine.

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Even if none of that were true, just setting up the voting, vetting the voting, and coding the choice into the game... that's all work that would take energy away from Alliances, without addressing any of the fundamental issues of the mode.

[Strider Pj.2193]

It was mostly rhetorical. To get a vote on WvW is always going to be poorly received. By one party or another.

There is no way to limit the vote in a way the would effectively capture what people want.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

If it was majority vote for a server pop, DBL would never be in rotation. The few DBL lovers that were on the forums always praised it, and said people actually LOVED it despite all the people hating on the forums, they said they didn't represent the player population.

They then moved DBL into a rotation with Alpine and DBL was a waste land for people. The only time you saw people there was when all other maps had queues, or the server had flipped everything else and went there to zerg everything down. It was yet another example of PvE design being forced on a PvP base, people hated it and even after reworking to remove lots of those elements, people still remember and have a distaste for the map. It also does NOT spread out a zerg, if anything it makes zergs even bigger. With very few if any roamers or havoc groups.

[hunkamania.7561]

The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.

[Garrus.7403]

@hunkamania.7561 said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.

I still dont get it why they are not removing the desert map. Matchup are even less fair than they are already. Must be some kind of defiance because they made the map but most ppl dont like it.

[Dawdler.8521]

@hunkamania.7561 said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.Except it can also be a massive advantage if whoever has hbl face servers that dislike DBL. Seen plenty of servers win on PPT purely because all T3 on DBL thats not being reset.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Garrus.7403 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.

I still dont get it why they are not removing the desert map. Matchup are even less fair than they are already. Must be some kind of defiance because they made the map but most ppl dont like it.

We voted on the map's removal. WvW participants voted against removing it.

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If ANet wasn't working on Alliances already, then I'd agree that it's worth revisiting the question (I think we'd still see fewer votes to remove than people expect). And it would probably be worth re-asking the community on the frequency of re-links. (And again, I think people would be surprised at how little change there would be.) The main reason to ask is to help everyone better understand the community's preference, rather than assuming that we know — we each see such a narrow part of the community that it's difficult to have any perspective on how vast the population is and how varied the opinions.

[hunkamania.7561]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.Except it can also be a

massive

advantage if whoever has hbl face servers that dislike DBL. Seen plenty of servers win on PPT purely because all T3 on DBL thats not being reset.

If you look at the history the RED team takes a high % of 3rd place finishes and usually the red team is the weaker server so I think they should have the green team with the desert map and see how that shifts the balance of power in terms of numbers.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Garrus.7403 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.

I still dont get it why they are not removing the desert map. Matchup are even less fair than they are already. Must be some kind of defiance because they made the map but most ppl dont like it.

We voted on the map's removal. WvW participants voted against removing it.

You DO remember how that poll was worded right?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Garrus.7403 said:

@"hunkamania.7561" said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.

I still dont get it why they are not removing the desert map. Matchup are even less fair than they are already. Must be some kind of defiance because they made the map but most ppl dont like it.

We voted on the map's removal. WvW participants voted against removing it.

You DO remember how that poll was worded right?

[Syrus.2174]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:Let’s talk logistics..

Who on the server can vote?

Does Anet send an email to every member of the server? And do you want that?

If it’s limited to ‘wvw’ players, how do you actually define that? One trip into WvW in the past week? Past 4 weeks?

As I stated, if you finish the wood divison chest, your vote counts. Which means, you need to be able to gain pips, which you can't if you just transferred to the server and you need to spend at least some time in WvW.If the second option for that system was implemented, it would count for 1 vote, while bronze would count for 2, silver for 3, and so on - that way, the more you play (or played, as higher ranks get pips faster) the more weight your vote would have.

Of course the system would have to be implemented ingame in the WvW menu.

Overall I would expect the main part of the community to be against the Desert Borderland. Which is why I suggested the weighted randomized map selection option, which would work like for sPvP, just at the end of the matchup. But then again, why enforce what a few want on the many, if the majority is against this borderland, why should we have to suffer through it for a whole week? At least give us a choice, as others stated, red team is at a serious disadvantage, if they don't have ppt-focussed people who can put up with the problems of that map.

The same way that Red team would get to chose not to have Desert BL as their home, other teams would be able to chose the other way.Improving the map and fixing its issues, making it a worthwhile and fun addition to WvW would still be preferred overall, but having a choice for which map to have as home would at least lessen the issue a bit ... at least because I assume it would "pop up less often". But also because it would only pop up if a server is actually fine with playing on it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Actually still hoping we could get the EoTM map to replace one of the alpines so we have 3 all unique ones. You are right, servers react differently to the maps. Personally grew tired of alpine years ago so its either red or EB. Will go defend home if its alpine but just to block an attack. Based on the options we had before still think this is the better compromise since the rotation wasn't going to work and everyone has options the way we have it now. Said in the past, by now I would have liked 16 maps that rotate out weekly to keep the playing field fresh but we didn't get there.

[Teon.5168]

@Garrus.7403 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:The server getting desert BL is at a disadvantage(ez map to k train). There's a reason they had every server get identical maps it's for balance.

I still dont get it why they are not removing the desert map. Matchup are even less fair than they are already. Must be some kind of defiance because they made the map but most ppl dont like it.

When wvw already has population problems, getting rid of Desert borderlands would lose even more players. I think you might be underestimating the number of players that enjoy and/or don't have an issue/problem with the map.

And, the playerbase DID vote to keep the Desert borderlands. You might not have been here for that.

I know you didn't make this point....but anyone posting an argument about the size of the Desert borderlands being too much....well, that argument became completely irrelevant when we got mounts in wvw.

[kappre.3897]

Just randomize the borderland assignments with the server rankings each reset so that 1st rank is not perpetually green, 2nd blue, and 3rd red respectively. This way, rank 1's can be red sometimes and be pushed to defend what many believe to be the most difficult borderland to protect (but probably the easiest EB territory). Plus, the game won't feel stale.

[Kaiser.9873]

They need to create a new BL; jungle or plains, and then have the easiest to defend be red, and the hardest to defend be green. This way you have three different experiences with some handicaps based on population/placement.

[LetoII.3782]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

We voted on the map's removal. WvW participants voted against removing it.

70% majorities being nearly impossible to obtain in a large group.Even changing the Constitution only requires 60%..The whole voting affair was a clown show

Partaining to the OP: not worth discussing. Anet has made it clear in the past changing maps takes a lot of work and requires shutting the game down.. It'll never happen

[Rashagar.8349]

After experiencing the last vote, I'd be unlikely to be thrilled at the concept of the playerbase voting on anything much any more. All the arguments ended up just sounding like "my preference is more important that other people's preferences" heh. I'd much rather just continue to game in a benevolent dictatorship.

[Sarrs.4831]

It sounds like a fantastic excuse for the 'losing' server to abuse the players who like Desert Borderlands and might've voted for it.

If anything, just change which team gets Desert Borderlands so that a stronger server gets the 'weaker' map. Maybe adjustments would be a good idea to open up the map, but I don't think that's really necessary; it makes sense that you should need to learn to navigate the desert. Content-wise and systems-wise, I'd prefer for them to work on any number of other things; new armor, balance, a new map, finally pushing out Alliances...