Nerf the mesmers for the love of pvp

[Koen.1327]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"crepuscular.9047" said:it seems like Anet have a reluctancy to nerf it HARD to the point of unplayable like what happened to other classes, it's their most unique class they ever came up with

• remove the ability of mirage to use mirage cloak, it's way too powerful compared to the conventional dodge, they already have plenty of extremely useful utilities
• cutdown the damage potential of staff, it just feels so brain dead to play

1 - MC was already nerfed hard:Vigor uptime got nerfed to the point mes is now one of the professions with the least vigor uptime on game.MC got cut down by 0.25sec which means all ambushes and most attacks aren't covered by dodge, taking out the whole mirage mechanic.There's not a single main profession mechanic that was destroyed this way. It's the equivalent of ANet saying " now that necros are used to play with shroud we decided to cut life force by half, all life force granted by skills cut by half too and we duplicated the life force degen, have fun!", "now that eles are used to elemental attunement we decided to up the elemental cd by +half. Have fun!", "now that thieves are used to the initiative system we decided to halve the initiative, have fun!", and so on.

2 - staff is a defensive weapon, apart from ambush pressure, staff damage is low.

its mostly just recent that mirages take CI and pistol, but with BD you still get easy 80%+ vigor up time - which is more like one of highest vigor uptimes.in addition i think MC isn't trashed enough yet, as long as you can still dodge while hard cc'dthe duration of MC is less relevant for your own attacks, but more for your opponent's attacks (its duration). I don't think it was ever fair that you could accidentally dodge stuff because MC was so long.

You have to spec 3 traits to have still less vigor than most of other professions with 1 or 2 traits.Sure thing take out the mc while stunned but give back the 1 sec mc and speed time, or do you want it just to become a worse dodge? Because apart from the "while stunned" it already is.The duration of mc is relevant for your own attacks, axe 2 and ambushes were all design taking long cast times in mind. 0.75sec mc was the beta version, don't know if you recall but everyone agreed it was clunky and straight-up bad, heck, mirage was voted one of the worst elite pof specs back than (worst as in trash).

now axe 2 is particularly the argument why MC shouldn't be longer - if you need to dodge an attack while in axe 2 you should time it and not just an preventive dodge. Why you make the assumption that MC should cover your entire attacks is unclear to me. Mirage was one of the worst elite regardless 0.75s or 1s in the beginning

[Carnifex.3275]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Dave.6819" said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"crepuscular.9047" said:it seems like Anet have a reluctancy to nerf it HARD to the point of unplayable like what happened to other classes, it's their most unique class they ever came up with

• remove the ability of mirage to use mirage cloak, it's way too powerful compared to the conventional dodge, they already have plenty of extremely useful utilities
• cutdown the damage potential of staff, it just feels so brain dead to play

1 - MC was already nerfed hard:Vigor uptime got nerfed to the point mes is now one of the professions with the least vigor uptime on game.MC got cut down by 0.25sec which means all ambushes and most attacks aren't covered by dodge, taking out the whole mirage mechanic.There's not a single main profession mechanic that was destroyed this way. It's the equivalent of ANet saying " now that necros are used to play with shroud we decided to cut life force by half, all life force granted by skills cut by half too and we duplicated the life force degen, have fun!", "now that eles are used to elemental attunement we decided to up the elemental cd by +half. Have fun!", "now that thieves are used to the initiative system we decided to halve the initiative, have fun!", and so on.

2 - staff is a defensive weapon, apart from ambush pressure, staff damage is low.

its mostly just recent that mirages take CI and pistol, but with BD you still get easy 80%+ vigor up time - which is more like one of highest vigor uptimes.in addition i think MC isn't trashed enough yet, as long as you can still dodge while hard cc'dthe duration of MC is less relevant for your own attacks, but more for your opponent's attacks (its duration). I don't think it was ever fair that you could accidentally dodge stuff because MC was so long.

yar~ agree, how is that a 'got nerfed hard?' all it it was bring it more in-line with regular dodge's duration

the least Anet should do is remove able to MC out of a hard CC

and Infinite Horizon is rediculously strong, there is absolute no reason why any mirage would pick any other 2 traits

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

It's just that one mixture. Like seriously, otherwise Mesmer is fine right now.

People need to be careful how much they complain about this one, or nerfs gonna get tossed in wrong places.

I don't even know if nerfing is the right term to use. Like Soulbeast, I feel there needs to be alterations with Mantra functions, not so much nerfs.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

It's just that one mixture. Like seriously, otherwise Mesmer is fine right now.

People need to be careful how much they complain about this one, or nerfs gonna get tossed in wrong places.

I don't even know if nerfing is the right term to use. Like Soulbeast, I feel there needs to be alterations with Mantra functions, not so much nerfs.

I agree. Pain and Distraction mantras are too spammable. Most games now you're up against 2x mantra mesmers, whether they're power or condi. I don't think mantras need to be put in the ground, but adding a bit more counter play and making them a bit less spammable is most of what we need. Which is why I think making them projectiles is brilliant. It makes them more inherently counterable, being able to see and react to them more appropriately. And another layer of counterplay with projectile mitigation.

Right now there's no real counter play to the offensive mantras aside from Line of Sight. It's not up to you to counter the mantra so much as up to the mesmer to whiff them.

Chaotic Interruption itself can probably go down to 1s immobilization duration baseline and still be top tier.

[praqtos.9035]

@mortrialus.3062

Right now there's no real counter play to the offensive mantras aside from Line of Sight. It's not up to you to counter the mantra so much as up to the mesmer to whiff them.There are tons more and Bravan listed them in another thread and there I responded.

[praqtos.9035]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

It's just that one mixture. Like seriously, otherwise Mesmer is fine right now.People need to be careful how much they complain about this one, or nerfs gonna get tossed in wrong places.I don't even know if nerfing is the right term to use. Like Soulbeast, I feel there needs to be alterations with Mantra functions, not so much nerfs.And you said completely opposite thing in another thread - calling for nerfs on mantra that is not the issue. Why you contradicting yourself?Do you remember how you and your knowledgable community called nerfs on mirage that never solved the real issue (dodge in cc)? With the amount of nerfs happened if they actually fix the issue with entire mirage elite spec, without reverting its nerfs like vigor/duration dodge/sw2/axe, its going to be renegade two.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:it seems like Anet have a reluctancy to nerf it HARD to the point of unplayable like what happened to other classes, it's their most unique class they ever came up with

• remove the ability of mirage to use mirage cloak, it's way too powerful compared to the conventional dodge, they already have plenty of extremely useful utilities
• cutdown the damage potential of staff, it just feels so brain dead to play

1 - MC was already nerfed hard:Vigor uptime got nerfed to the point mes is now one of the professions with the least vigor uptime on game.MC got cut down by 0.25sec which means all ambushes and most attacks aren't covered by dodge, taking out the whole mirage mechanic.There's not a single main profession mechanic that was destroyed this way. It's the equivalent of ANet saying " now that necros are used to play with shroud we decided to cut life force by half, all life force granted by skills cut by half too and we duplicated the life force degen, have fun!", "now that eles are used to elemental attunement we decided to up the elemental cd by +half. Have fun!", "now that thieves are used to the initiative system we decided to halve the initiative, have fun!", and so on.

2 - staff is a defensive weapon, apart from ambush pressure, staff damage is low.

its mostly just recent that mirages take CI and pistol, but with BD you still get easy 80%+ vigor up time - which is more like one of highest vigor uptimes.in addition i think MC isn't trashed enough yet, as long as you can still dodge while hard cc'dthe duration of MC is less relevant for your own attacks, but more for your opponent's attacks (its duration). I don't think it was ever fair that you could accidentally dodge stuff because MC was so long.

yar~ agree, how is that a 'got nerfed hard?' all it it was bring it more in-line with regular dodge's duration

the least Anet should do is remove able to MC out of a hard CC

and Infinite Horizon is rediculously strong, there is absolute no reason why any mirage would pick any other 2 traits

I'll answer to both at the same time.When you've 1 1/2 ambush cast time and 3/4sec in axe's case (2 ammo) who are clearly done in a way they demand being covered by dodge and dodge time is 0.75, it means you'll be doing 1sec animation in ambushes outside the dodge and you need to waste 2 dodges to cover the axe animation.And all this contradicts the entire mirage design (attack while dodging). This mechanic no longer exists.I already gave example of what would be similar nerfs to other professions main mechanics.

And again if ANet removed the while stunned mc, mc would be nothing but a worst dodge, you only cover the same distance as a dodge forward, not sideways not backwards.

No reason to use the other two because they are trash, EM is the only trait in the game that was smiter's booned, in other words, the only trait on game that if you pick it up you'll be crippling yourself.The other one is useless since the game released.IH is strong yeah, that's what all grandmasters are supposed to be, plus only IH condi (except scepter) ambushes and sword interrupt are something to talk about, all other ambushes are meh at best.

[praqtos.9035]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:it seems like Anet have a reluctancy to nerf it HARD to the point of unplayable like what happened to other classes, it's their most unique class they ever came up with

• remove the ability of mirage to use mirage cloak, it's way too powerful compared to the conventional dodge, they already have plenty of extremely useful utilities
• cutdown the damage potential of staff, it just feels so brain dead to play

1 - MC was already nerfed hard:Vigor uptime got nerfed to the point mes is now one of the professions with the least vigor uptime on game.MC got cut down by 0.25sec which means all ambushes and most attacks aren't covered by dodge, taking out the whole mirage mechanic.There's not a single main profession mechanic that was destroyed this way. It's the equivalent of ANet saying " now that necros are used to play with shroud we decided to cut life force by half, all life force granted by skills cut by half too and we duplicated the life force degen, have fun!", "now that eles are used to elemental attunement we decided to up the elemental cd by +half. Have fun!", "now that thieves are used to the initiative system we decided to halve the initiative, have fun!", and so on.

2 - staff is a defensive weapon, apart from ambush pressure, staff damage is low.

its mostly just recent that mirages take CI and pistol, but with BD you still get easy 80%+ vigor up time - which is more like one of highest vigor uptimes.in addition i think MC isn't trashed enough yet, as long as you can still dodge while hard cc'dthe duration of MC is less relevant for your own attacks, but more for your opponent's attacks (its duration). I don't think it was ever fair that you could accidentally dodge stuff because MC was so long.

yar~ agree, how is that a 'got nerfed hard?' all it it was bring it more in-line with regular dodge's duration

the least Anet should do is remove able to MC out of a hard CC

and Infinite Horizon is rediculously strong, there is absolute no reason why any mirage would pick any other 2 traits

I'll answer to both at the same time.When you've 1 1/2 ambush cast time and 3/4sec in axe's case (2 ammo) who are clearly done in a way they demand being covered by dodge and dodge time is 0.75, it means you'll be doing 1sec animation in ambushes outside the dodge and you need to waste 2 dodges to cover the axe animation.And all this contradicts the entire mirage design (attack while dodging). This mechanic no longer exists.I already gave example of what would be similar nerfs to other professions main mechanics.

And again if ANet removed the while stunned mc, mc would be nothing but a worst dodge, you only cover the same distance as a dodge forward, not sideways not backwards.

No reason to use the other two because they are trash, EM is the only trait in the game that was smiter's booned, in other words, the only trait on game that if you pick it up you'll be crippling yourself.The other one is useless since the game released.IH is strong yeah, that's what all grandmasters are supposed to be, plus only IH condi (except scepter) ambushes and sword interrupt are something to talk about, all other ambushes are meh at best.Also to bring down "mirage" evasion instead of nerfing 1s to 0.75s if this was their initial intention they nerfed entire core mesmer just to nerf dodge duration later without reverting this rofl-tier nerfs that cripple entire class, not just mirage.The same goes for "we nerf mirage burst", nerf interrupt trait... leave all condi burst damage there... then nerf axe raw power damage... then tell us mirage should be fine in long combat engagement with nerfing its active defenses ...

[Heartpains.7312]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

I agree. Pain and Distraction mantras are too spammable. Most games now you're up against 2x mantra mesmers, whether they're power or condi. I don't think mantras need to be put in the ground, but adding a bit more counter play and making them a bit less spammable is most of what we need. Which is why I think making them projectiles is brilliant. It makes them more inherently counterable, being able to see and react to them more appropriately. And another layer of counterplay with projectile mitigation.

Right now there's no real counter play to the offensive mantras aside from Line of Sight. It's not up to you to counter the mantra so much as up to the mesmer to whiff them.

Chaotic Interruption itself can probably go down to 1s immobilization duration baseline and still be top tier.

It is usually mesmers who starts killing the mesmer, keep suggesting more nerfs to mesmers, after a while you will start to realize that they will only nerf, and they won't even care about any buffs suggestions, go on, it is cool, we should be used to that by now.

Not only that, but you keep on killing core more.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

It's just that one mixture. Like seriously, otherwise Mesmer is fine right now.People need to be careful how much they complain about this one, or nerfs gonna get tossed in wrong places.I don't even know if nerfing is the right term to use. Like Soulbeast, I feel there needs to be alterations with Mantra functions, not so much nerfs.And you said completely opposite thing in another thread - calling for nerfs on mantra that is not the issue. Why you contradicting yourself?Do you remember how you and your knowledgable community called nerfs on mirage that never solved the real issue (dodge in cc)? With the amount of nerfs happened if they actually fix the issue with entire mirage elite spec, without reverting its nerfs like vigor/duration dodge/sw2/axe, its going to be renegade two.

All I said in the other thread was that mantras need to be addressed due to how they have scaled with the power creep. I also said that maybe mantras need to be projectiles.

Some of you guys in this forum... All you do is attack other users with attempts to discredit statements or the user themselves, as if we were in a court trial and Arenanet were the judge, watching our discussion, and basing the choices of their balancing acts solely on who's ideas posted get slammed less lol. I notice that using the strawman tactic is particularly popular in this forum. If I were to say "My grandma's car is red" then I had some guy show up in the thread and respond to me with "Why are you saying that red cars are driven by senior citizens are you saying it is an old person color?" It's ridiculous really ^^ There are like 1/4th of the users in this pvp sub forum that you can't actually have any constructive discussion with. You ought to try responding with facts & points, and not with logical fallacies.

Let me explain this to some of you, because I honestly am unsure if you realize what you're doing or not, or maybe you'r so afraid of my written responses that you feel you have to do this because you have no actual substantial statements to make to my discussion:

1. Strawman Fallacy. Description: Substituting a person's actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument. Logical Form: Person 1 makes claim Y. Person 2 restates person 1's claim (in a distorted way).
2. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's actual real argument.

Either way, I highly doubt Arenanet takes much of what we say seriously beyond their own agenda, so we can all calm down now.

[bravan.3876]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

It's just that one mixture. Like seriously, otherwise Mesmer is fine right now.People need to be careful how much they complain about this one, or nerfs gonna get tossed in wrong places.I don't even know if nerfing is the right term to use. Like Soulbeast, I feel there needs to be alterations with Mantra functions, not so much nerfs.And you said completely opposite thing in another thread - calling for nerfs on mantra that is not the issue. Why you contradicting yourself?Do you remember how you and your knowledgable community called nerfs on mirage that never solved the real issue (dodge in cc)? With the amount of nerfs happened if they actually fix the issue with entire mirage elite spec, without reverting its nerfs like vigor/duration dodge/sw2/axe, its going to be renegade two.

All I said in the other thread was that mantras need to be addressed due to how they have scaled with the power creep. I also said that maybe mantras need to be projectiles.

Some of you guys in this forum... All you do is attack other users with attempts to discredit statements or the user themselves, as if we were in a court trial and Arenanet were the judge, watching our discussion, and basing the choices of their balancing acts solely on who's ideas posted get slammed less lol. I notice that using the strawman tactic is particularly popular in this forum. If I were to say "My grandma's car is red" then I had some guy show up in the thread and respond to me with "Why are you saying that red cars are driven by senior citizens are you saying it is an old person color?" It's ridiculous really ^^ There are like 1/4th of the users in this pvp sub forum that you can't actually have any constructive discussion with. You ought to try responding with facts & points, and not with logical fallacies.

Let me explain this to some of you, because I honestly am unsure if you realize what you're doing or not, or maybe you'r so afraid of my written responses that you feel you have to do this because you have no actual substantial statements to make to my discussion:

1. Strawman Fallacy. Description: Substituting a person's actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument. Logical Form: Person 1 makes claim Y. Person 2 restates person 1's claim (in a distorted way).
2. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's actual real argument.

Either way, I highly doubt Arenanet takes much of what we say seriously beyond their own agenda, so we can all calm down now.

You have a weird interpretation of the definition of a strawman. Seems in your view everyone arguing with facts in a logical way is a strawman when he clearly shows that you compare apples with oranges and make objectively wrong assumtions and suggestions. Showing that you don't even understand your own post and complains, just like the Op in the other thread. You edited your last comment because you got at least parts of it in the end. You just try to devalue my logical arguments by calling them strawman tactic because you have no real good agument, you know im an right.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:People have finally gotten wise to Chaotic Interruption Condi, eh?

I T B E G I N S

It's just that one mixture. Like seriously, otherwise Mesmer is fine right now.

People need to be careful how much they complain about this one, or nerfs gonna get tossed in wrong places.

I don't even know if nerfing is the right term to use. Like Soulbeast, I feel there needs to be alterations with Mantra functions, not so much nerfs.

I agree. Pain and Distraction mantras are too spammable. Most games now you're up against 2x mantra mesmers, whether they're power or condi. I don't think mantras need to be put in the ground, but adding a bit more counter play and making them a bit less spammable is most of what we need. Which is why I think making them projectiles is brilliant. It makes them more inherently counterable, being able to see and react to them more appropriately. And another layer of counterplay with projectile mitigation.

Right now there's no real counter play to the offensive mantras aside from Line of Sight. It's not up to you to counter the mantra so much as up to the mesmer to whiff them.

Chaotic Interruption itself can probably go down to 1s immobilization duration baseline and still be top tier.

I listed 10 ways of counterplay to Mantra of Distraction when not used with Ci or Lost time. I also explained why it would kill the interrupt purpose from Mantra of Distraction completely when you make it a not instant hitting thing. Mantra of Distraction also is not perma spammable, in addition to the cds inbetween recharges and uses it also has a 2,25 second recharge leaves the mesmer very vulnerable or he has to cover it by using other cds. Changing Mantra of Distraction the way you say would dumb down your class instead making it more skillbased.For Mantra of Pain i think you are right, you can turn it into something that works exactly like Arcane Blast on Ele. Still it also needs a cd inbetween charges and maybe uses. Mantra of Pain is the only Mantra you can call spammable without any cd (aside from the 2,25 secs recharge). Mantra of Distraction without CI or Lost Time doesn't even worth to be random spammed. Every other utility you could pick instead (SoM, SoI, MoP, Decoy, IA...) would be more rewarding.

[praqtos.9035]

Whatever.@"bravan.3876" thanksAlso making it projectile its not ALTERATION its a savage nerf. For a reasn daredevil "distracting daggers" which is a projectile - have inbuilt power block that need a trait from the mesmer, need no praying to Anet gods to give them ammo charges, had a trait and three charges and still never worked out, why would you expect it to work on the mesmer?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@bravan.3876 said:

Those are definitely copy/pasted definitions off of GOGLE of a strawman that you posted. Seems in your view that when I keep telling you that you are talking about Immobilizations when you are clearly stating over and over about interruptions and daze, you seem to think I am misrepresenting your statements by saying you were talking about immobilizations, and I don't believe I am strawmanning you even though that is the exact definition of a strawman. Continuing talking to me is a wasted effort. I truly believe that your post was about immobilizations regardless of the text that everyone can go read, that is clearly talking about mantras and dazing. You just try to devalue my strawman arguments by pointing out the obvious but I am trying very hard right now, to keep this argument as confusing as possible so that I can win the argument because I believe it matters, that Arenanet will base their balancing efforts on my ability to discredit other users input. My input is the only input that matters.

It's not a big deal really. But it is very rude to put words into other's mouths.

[bravan.3876]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

Those are definitely copy/pasted definitions off of GOGLE of a strawman that you posted. Seems in your view that when I keep telling you that you are talking about Immobilizations when you are clearly stating over and over about interruptions and daze, you seem to think I am misrepresenting your statements by saying you were talking about immobilizations, and I don't believe I am strawmanning you even though that is the exact definition of a strawman. Continuing talking to me is a wasted effort. I truly believe that your post was about immobilizations regardless of the text that everyone can go read, that is clearly talking about mantras and dazing. You just try to devalue my strawman arguments by pointing out the obvious but I am trying very hard right now, to keep this argument as confusing as possible so that I can win the argument because I believe it matters, that Arenanet will base their balancing efforts on my ability to discredit other users input. My input is the only input that matters.

It's not a big deal really. But it is very rude to put words into other's mouths.

You don't even get the difference between definition and interpretation. Put words into others mouth is what you do by quoting me wrong several times for the sake of lying and distracting from the facts that you have no real arguments to the topic, because i am right. As said i am out here. Hf with your propaganda

@praqtos.9035 said:Whatever.@bravan.3876 thanksAlso making it projectile its not ALTERATION its a savage nerf.

Yes it is a nerf but for Mantra of Pain a deserved one. For Mantra of Distraction it is not good.Mantra of Distraction adds nothing to the power creep because it doesn't do dmg by its own. Power creeped is the latest buff to Lost Time if anything. Power creeps is to add insane might stacking into a defensive traitline (CI). Mantra of Pain is power creeped and can be turned into a not instant cast skill. That would be more balanced. But an interrupt tool having nothing than one instant daze as ability needs to be instant otherwise it is useless. All interrupt traits need to be balanced around the interrupt tools not the other way around.

[Evil.1580]

@Dave.6819 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

The fact that some players are playing this build and are one shotting 3 enemy players at once is enough to stop it. The few sec gap doesn't mean you are dead because you can just disappear and wait for another chance. The respawn time of the 3 players is longer than the cd gap by a lot and who cares about this small cd if you can eliminate more than half of the enemy team in less than a sec?And by the way, when Condi and power are nerfed, please send me your items :)

P.S My 3rd most played class and favorite is mesmer.

[Tiipi.6750]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

The fact that some players are playing this build and are one shotting 3 enemy players at once is enough to stop it. The few sec gap doesn't mean you are dead because you can just disappear and wait for another chance. The respawn time of the 3 players is longer than the cd gap by a lot and who cares about this small cd if you can eliminate more than half of the enemy team in less than a sec?And by the way, when Condi and power are nerfed, please send me your items :)

P.S My 3rd most played class and favorite is mesmer.

A lot of classes can one shot 3 or more people at once under the right circumstances.

[Evil.1580]

@everyman.4375 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

The fact that some players are playing this build and are one shotting 3 enemy players at once is enough to stop it. The few sec gap doesn't mean you are dead because you can just disappear and wait for another chance. The respawn time of the 3 players is longer than the cd gap by a lot and who cares about this small cd if you can eliminate more than half of the enemy team in less than a sec?And by the way, when Condi and power are nerfed, please send me your items :)

P.S My 3rd most played class and favorite is mesmer.

A lot of classes can one shot 3 or more people at once under the right circumstances.

Please, let me know which classes can do that for a sec with all 3 enemies hp 100%

[Zawn.9647]

@phokus.8934 said:

@ZeroTheCat.2684 said:Mesmers aren’t any good according to these forums. So no nerf is needed.. ^^

Not as god-like as the OP and many others make them out to be. Mesmer can be NPCs and the player base will still complain.

yes. because the class is flawed not the player. lolits unfun to face confusion+torment+dazes+clone spam+invul spam+disengage - if a NPC has all of these it would still be unfun to play against

[bravan.3876]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

The fact that some players are playing this build and are one shotting 3 enemy players at once is enough to stop it. The few sec gap doesn't mean you are dead because you can just disappear and wait for another chance. The respawn time of the 3 players is longer than the cd gap by a lot and who cares about this small cd if you can eliminate more than half of the enemy team in less than a sec?And by the way, when Condi and power are nerfed, please send me your items :)

P.S My 3rd most played class and favorite is mesmer.

A lot of classes can one shot 3 or more people at once under the right circumstances.

Please, let me know which classes can do that for a sec with all 3 enemies hp 100%

With 5-6 buttons used? Holo even out of stealth with cc chain, Ranger with Maul and/ or Worldly Impact even out of stealth, full zerk staff Ele (maybe a bit slower than the mesmer oneshot) static discarge zerker Coreengi from out of stealth, Meditation Guard from out of los, Rev from out of los... and more.

[Nezekan.2671]

I like how people say Mirage is broken an Chrono is "fine".

All the while chrono has been a completely dead spec in pvp for quite some time now. On top of my mind, I can't think of a spec worse than it in pvp atm.

It makes very informative revelations on how much these people know about the game.

[Xstein.2187]

Whoever keeps saying that a mesmer killed 3 people in 1 second, I would appreciate a video if you have one. I'm not saying it for sure didn't happen, but I think the only time I have ever seen such a circumstance happening involved those said individuals completely face tanking a gravity well since mirror blade doesn't hit multiple people and you can't as easily stack a bunch of vulnerability on multiple people. If so, Gravity Well has a 1 sec activation time and the well itself lasts 3 seconds, which is about an eternity in PvP. I'm just asking because without gravity well, I don't think I have ever seen such a circumstance occur.

[bravan.3876]

@Xstein.2187 said:Whoever keeps saying that a mesmer killed 3 people in 1 second, I would appreciate a video if you have one. I'm not saying it for sure didn't happen, but I think the only time I have ever seen such a circumstance happening involved those said individuals completely face tanking a gravity well since mirror blade doesn't hit multiple people and you can't as easily stack a bunch of vulnerability on multiple people. If so, Gravity Well has a 1 sec activation time and the well itself lasts 3 seconds, which is about an eternity in PvP. I'm just asking because without gravity well, I don't think I have ever seen such a circumstance occur.

When ppl ball like npcs staying brain afk on point tunnelvision on something else, ofc a mesmer and lot of other classes can jump in and aoe oneshot. Happens in silver/ gold all the time i guess.

[Evil.1580]

@bravan.3876 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

The fact that some players are playing this build and are one shotting 3 enemy players at once is enough to stop it. The few sec gap doesn't mean you are dead because you can just disappear and wait for another chance. The respawn time of the 3 players is longer than the cd gap by a lot and who cares about this small cd if you can eliminate more than half of the enemy team in less than a sec?And by the way, when Condi and power are nerfed, please send me your items :)

P.S My 3rd most played class and favorite is mesmer.

A lot of classes can one shot 3 or more people at once under the right circumstances.

Please, let me know which classes can do that for a sec with all 3 enemies hp 100%

With 5-6 buttons used? Holo even out of stealth with cc chain, Ranger with Maul and/ or Worldly Impact even out of stealth, full zerk staff Ele (maybe a bit slower than the mesmer oneshot) static discarge zerker Coreengi from out of stealth, Meditation Guard from out of los, Rev from out of los... and more.

Ele needs 4 sec cast time alone for the skill, this is absolutely hilarious for you to mention. We are talking about triple kill under a sec from out of stealth.

Let's see something faster? Soulbeast? He needs to buff himself good before that (which the mesmer doesn't need), then enter stealth and then use his 2 skills which are NOT instant cast and have 3/4 sec casting time EACH. Good luck making a 1-sec triple kill, 1vs3 out of stealth with this! Plus, buffing, stealthing and making the combo chain is alone more keys than the mesmer. More keys, more casting time, easier to counter and react.

Won't even bother to clarify the rest of your choices...

[bravan.3876]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Dave.6819 said:I'd give up condi for power.

Currently, power can 1 shot 3 people at the same time in under a sec, from stealth. Both condi and power need a nerf.

What? U high or what? Well yea theoretically it can if you trait for mantra zerker one-way tunnel build. But what i meant was a decent power build that can be a duelist and stand abit longer then 10secs in a fight. Cuz now you waste your skills and that's it. You are a toast if you missed your burst. U got like a 10-12 second cooldown gap when all your skills are on CD and you are dead. If condi and even power would get a nerf that's it i wouldnt play. Is this what our community wants? For people to stop playing their favorite classes and roll some other classes that other people main? I don't mind. I can just re-roll other class and find some OP build. That's what most of GW2 players do anyways. And then they go back to forums to cry again to "nerf that nerf that". And then we jump back to other classes. And the cycle goes on. Pathetic. You sound very biased and hypocritical. What's your goal? To nerf all classes except yours? If you would go and try out mirage power build u'd realise it ain't OP at all. Condi is somewhat okey. But power definitely not.

The fact that some players are playing this build and are one shotting 3 enemy players at once is enough to stop it. The few sec gap doesn't mean you are dead because you can just disappear and wait for another chance. The respawn time of the 3 players is longer than the cd gap by a lot and who cares about this small cd if you can eliminate more than half of the enemy team in less than a sec?And by the way, when Condi and power are nerfed, please send me your items :)

P.S My 3rd most played class and favorite is mesmer.

A lot of classes can one shot 3 or more people at once under the right circumstances.

Please, let me know which classes can do that for a sec with all 3 enemies hp 100%

With 5-6 buttons used? Holo even out of stealth with cc chain, Ranger with Maul and/ or Worldly Impact even out of stealth, full zerk staff Ele (maybe a bit slower than the mesmer oneshot) static discarge zerker Coreengi from out of stealth, Meditation Guard from out of los, Rev from out of los... and more.

Ele needs 4 sec cast time alone for the skill, this is absolutely hilarious for you to mention. We are talking about triple kill under a sec from out of stealth.

Let's see something faster? Soulbeast? He needs to buff himself good before that (which the mesmer doesn't need), then enter stealth and then use his 2 skills which are NOT instant cast and have 3/4 sec casting time EACH. Good luck making a 1-sec triple kill, 1vs3 out of stealth with this! Plus, buffing, stealthing and making the combo chain is alone more keys than the mesmer. More keys, more casting time, easier to counter and react.

Won't even bother to clarify the rest of your choices...

Lol what? Ranger can buff without any haste to get a one button kill out of stealth. Who cares about some casttime when it is out of stealth with no tell? Mesmers gs2 has a cast time + very obvious animation too and you can at least see it flying to you even when used out of stealth and a Mesmer cannot stack stealth out of los to come completely out of nowhere (without Massinvis). Any self buff preparation and cast times are fully irrelevant for oneshotting some brain afk ppl balling and tunnelvision on point. The moment you see someone attacking you, you are already dead, that is the main issue and Souldbeast can do that even better than Mesmer as long as Mesmer has no Mass invis, otherwise it is like the same. I said Staff Ele might be slower, didn't have everything of it in mind, haven't played it in years or saw it being played but Ele for sure can make builds kill aoe in around a second. Like every class can when spec for it. There are only few classes more based on single target dmg cannot oneshot 3 ppl simultaniously but that's it.