Chances of Druid pets getting a rework like Chrono did?

[Lazze.9870]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

You say "for example", but raiding is the ONLY thing it's "meta" in at all. And that's not because druid is good, but because core ranger got spirits and spotter, druid only adds some heals and might to it (which other classes can do). If you're gonna talk about how good druid is for raiding, you should know why that is - but you clearly don't.

If warrior ever got a heal spec, it would take the druid's role in a second. It's only missing the heals, and a soulbeast or any other ranger spec can grab the missing frost spirit.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff.

Heh, the trade off is having to run the trait line at all. No one would use it if it didn't come with the merge mechanic, and the merge mechanic itself doesn't need any SB traits to be good unlike other elite specs which often enhance the new mechanic in some way or another.

-20 % stat reduction is neither a good trade off, or with any good intention. There is

an intention

there, but a

good intention

would be to put in some effort to it. They didn't.

Oh yeah, Soulbeasts traitline is absolutely fucking awful for traits, it needs some serious reworking to not just be a disappointment lol. And the Druid tradeoff is just lazy, and boring.

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

I disagree, not having the pet during BM is a compromise.Warrior lose 2 adrenaline bars but get Full Counter, Mirage loses the dodge but gets Cloak of Mirage, SoulBeast that loses one of his 2 pets is not a compromise is a nerf, none of the other professions really lose anything with their espec, indeed it becomes something different.

Sorry I do not see the compromise for guardians, they get 15 new skills and can all be used at choice, without restrictions.

Obviously they’re gaining something in exchange of the tradeoff, that’s the point of s trade off. Soulbeast losing a pet would be a nerf from its current state because it currently has no tradeoff. It just gains the merge mechanic, it loses nothing. Losing your pet when you merge is not a trade off from Soulbeast it’s a tradeoff of the mechanic they gain.

It’d be like saying Druid didn’t need a tradeoff because they can’t use their weapon skills in CA or need to build up enough resource to use it.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

The idea of tradeoff is to counter the add up of mechanics not adding an arbitrary weakness to an otherwise balanced spec, look at heralds ; all necro and ele elites.Berseker and Scrapper received trade off because they could use both their main mechanic and the elite one at the same time ( berseker was able to use normal burst + zerk burst before the changes and scrapper had still access to all F+ skills ).

Ranger effectively lose access to pet mechanics while in beastmode, a tradeoff idea would be valid if the ranger could go mergeform and still use the pet, given how top rangers use core variant ( and personally I use it also ) , it's safe to say that your statement is blatantly wrong , soulbeast is situational and not a must have like holo or mirage.

Druid received tradeoff because while using astral form he could still use his pets....if you still insist on your idea of tradeoff for soulbeast then I would expect to see a tradeoff for every single elite traitline in game ...including the herald traitline that the devs stated not requiring a tradeoff

[Durzlla.6295]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

The idea of tradeoff is to counter the add up of mechanics not adding an arbitrary weakness to an otherwise balanced spec, look at heralds ; all necro and ele elites.Berseker and Scrapper received trade off because they could use both their main mechanic and the elite one at the same time ( berseker was able to use normal burst + zerk burst before the changes and scrapper had still access to all F+ skills ).

Ranger effectively lose access to pet mechanics while in beastmode, a tradeoff idea would be valid if the ranger could go mergeform and still use the pet, given how top rangers use core variant ( and personally I use it also ) , it's safe to say that your statement is blatantly wrong , soulbeast is situational and not a must have like holo or mirage.

Druid received tradeoff because while using astral form he could still use his pets....if you still insist on your idea of tradeoff for soulbeast then I would expect to see a tradeoff for every single elite traitline in game ...including the herald traitline that the devs stated not requiring a tradeoff

Every elite spec SHOULD have a trade off, and the devs think so too which is why they’ve said that and have been adding them into specs that don’t have them.

All necro elites have a trade off of their shroud completely changing, scourge for example has a pitifully low amount of survivability compared to either of the other specs because it has an absolute LACK of a shroud in exchange for powerful offense and support via shades. And ele has a trade off with weaver, it has a drawback of having a CD on every attunement when you swap (normal ele and tempest can power swap through all their attunements if they want), and also requires two swaps to get a full attunement.

And Soulbeast May lose access to their class mechanic in beast mode in a traditional sense, but they still gain all the benefits their pet would be giving them, both the skills and the buffs. It would be like saying the original berserker had a trade off because they couldn’t use their normal burst skills while they were in their primal rage, which as we can all see was not determined to be an actual trade off.

[Virdo.1540]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

You say "for example", but raiding is the ONLY thing it's "meta" in at all. And that's not because druid is good, but because core ranger got spirits and spotter, druid only adds some heals and might to it (which other classes can do). If you're gonna talk about how good druid is for raiding, you should know why that is - but you clearly don't.

If warrior ever got a heal spec, it would take the druid's role in a second. It's only missing the heals, and a soulbeast or any other ranger spec can grab the missing frost spirit.

not really .... frac meta too and pretty good in roaming

and warrior got healing now, but its a bad choice to make the bannerslave a healer since it deals tons of damage to the buffs it gives

[Arheundel.6451]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

The idea of tradeoff is to counter the add up of mechanics not adding an arbitrary weakness to an otherwise balanced spec, look at heralds ; all necro and ele elites.Berseker and Scrapper received trade off because they could use both their main mechanic and the elite one at the same time ( berseker was able to use normal burst + zerk burst before the changes and scrapper had still access to all F+ skills ).

Ranger effectively lose access to pet mechanics while in beastmode, a tradeoff idea would be valid if the ranger could go mergeform and still use the pet, given how top rangers use core variant ( and personally I use it also ) , it's safe to say that your statement is blatantly wrong , soulbeast is situational and not a must have like holo or mirage.

Druid received tradeoff because while using astral form he could still use his pets....if you still insist on your idea of tradeoff for soulbeast then I would expect to see a tradeoff for every single elite traitline in game ...including the herald traitline that the devs stated not requiring a tradeoff

Every elite spec SHOULD have a trade off, and the devs think so too which is why they’ve said that and have been adding them into specs that don’t have them.

All necro elites have a trade off of their shroud completely changing, scourge for example has a pitifully low amount of survivability compared to either of the other specs because it has an absolute LACK of a shroud in exchange for powerful offense and support via shades. And ele has a trade off with weaver, it has a drawback of having a CD on every attunement when you swap (normal ele and tempest can power swap through all their attunements if they want), and also requires two swaps to get a full attunement.

And Soulbeast May lose access to their class mechanic in beast mode in a traditional sense, but they still gain all the benefits their pet would be giving them, both the skills and the buffs. It would be like saying the original berserker had a trade off because they couldn’t use their normal burst skills while they were in their primal rage, which as we can all see was not determined to be an actual trade off.

Your post is full of contradictions.

The devs stated that herald was in no need for tradeoffs so no...the devs think otherwise, going to ele, weaver has reduced CD on access to attunement but get double CD when trying to full attune, basically weavers can swap attunements faster than core eles so your comment is really wrong.

Necro, reaper and scourges still got access to base necro skills and traits if I am not wrong...and they change the way necro is played exactly as soulbeast, about scourges...not only they can receive heals while in shroud mode compared to reapers and core necro but also get access to powerful barrier application, whether they're good in 1v1...it's not really the issue here and totally skill dependant.

Already explained why soulbeast is balanced so no need to repeat myself , let's go straight to your "suggestion" ; you should try to explain us what will happen to all "on swap pet" traits and why soulbeast mode should have a CD at all, on top of that the whole traitline should be reworked, let's no forget about all merged skills that now will have to make up for the loss of 2nd pet.

They won't just remove our 2nd pet...it wouldn't even be a ranger anymore, the devs will never do that...so pointless to even ask

P.S also explain what we're supposed to do with a single pet when not merged, you're removing a core mechanic and completely gut dps/sustain..everyting...what exactly other classes give up while not using elite mechanic?

[Durzlla.6295]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

The idea of tradeoff is to counter the add up of mechanics not adding an arbitrary weakness to an otherwise balanced spec, look at heralds ; all necro and ele elites.Berseker and Scrapper received trade off because they could use both their main mechanic and the elite one at the same time ( berseker was able to use normal burst + zerk burst before the changes and scrapper had still access to all F+ skills ).

Ranger effectively lose access to pet mechanics while in beastmode, a tradeoff idea would be valid if the ranger could go mergeform and still use the pet, given how top rangers use core variant ( and personally I use it also ) , it's safe to say that your statement is blatantly wrong , soulbeast is situational and not a must have like holo or mirage.

Druid received tradeoff because while using astral form he could still use his pets....if you still insist on your idea of tradeoff for soulbeast then I would expect to see a tradeoff for every single elite traitline in game ...including the herald traitline that the devs stated not requiring a tradeoff

Every elite spec SHOULD have a trade off, and the devs think so too which is why they’ve said that and have been adding them into specs that don’t have them.

All necro elites have a trade off of their shroud completely changing, scourge for example has a pitifully low amount of survivability compared to either of the other specs because it has an absolute LACK of a shroud in exchange for powerful offense and support via shades. And ele has a trade off with weaver, it has a drawback of having a CD on every attunement when you swap (normal ele and tempest can power swap through all their attunements if they want), and also requires two swaps to get a full attunement.

And Soulbeast May lose access to their class mechanic in beast mode in a traditional sense, but they still gain all the benefits their pet would be giving them, both the skills and the buffs. It would be like saying the original berserker had a trade off because they couldn’t use their normal burst skills while they were in their primal rage, which as we can all see was not determined to be an actual trade off.

Your post is full of contradictions.

The devs stated that

herald was in no need for tradeoffs

so no...the devs think otherwise, going to

ele

, weaver has reduced CD on access to attunement but get double CD when trying to full attune, basically weavers can swap attunements faster than core eles so your comment is really wrong.

Necro, reaper and scourges still got access to base necro skills and traits if I am not wrong...and they change the way necro is played exactly as soulbeast, about scourges...

not only they can receive heals while in shroud mode compared to reapers and core necro but also get access to powerful barrier application

, whether they're good in 1v1...it's not really the issue here and totally skill dependant.

Already explained why soulbeast is balanced so no need to repeat myself , let's go straight to your "suggestion" ; you should try to explain us what will happen to all "on swap pet" traits and why soulbeast mode should have a CD at all, on top of that the whole traitline should be reworked, let's no forget about all merged skills that now will have to make up for the loss of 2nd pet.

They won't just remove our 2nd pet

...it wouldn't even be a ranger anymore, the devs will never do that...so pointless to even ask

P.S also explain what we're supposed to do with a single pet when not merged, you're removing a core mechanic and completely gut dps/sustain..everyting...what exactly other classes give up while not using elite mechanic?

Well herald does have a trade off now, since they no longer gain access to the F2 ability core revenant has now. Since core revenant came out with elite specs and wasn’t designed around core revenant really being a thing.

Also do you not understand what a trade off is? It’s not some direct nerf, they give something up in exchange for something else. Weaver gives up being able to power swap, and a very slow full attunement in exchange for a shorter CD on all of its attunements and the whole weaving mechanic.

Soulbeast has no trade off currently, it’s traitline sucks sure, and obviously they’d need to rework it, but they need to do that regardless, since no one in their right mind would take the Soulbeast traitline over any other one if they didn’t gain merge skills.

And how would removing a second pet make it “not ranger” it’s not meant to be identical to core ranger, it’s meant to be different. In exchange for the second pet you get access to merging. Your singular pet will do exactly what you use it for now when you’re a SB for the 10s Cd Soulbeast already has between merging. And if they remove the second pet they just make pet swap traits trigger on entering/exiting beast mode.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

The idea of tradeoff is to counter the add up of mechanics not adding an arbitrary weakness to an otherwise balanced spec, look at heralds ; all necro and ele elites.Berseker and Scrapper received trade off because they could use both their main mechanic and the elite one at the same time ( berseker was able to use normal burst + zerk burst before the changes and scrapper had still access to all F+ skills ).

Ranger effectively lose access to pet mechanics while in beastmode, a tradeoff idea would be valid if the ranger could go mergeform and still use the pet, given how top rangers use core variant ( and personally I use it also ) , it's safe to say that your statement is blatantly wrong , soulbeast is situational and not a must have like holo or mirage.

Druid received tradeoff because while using astral form he could still use his pets....if you still insist on your idea of tradeoff for soulbeast then I would expect to see a tradeoff for every single elite traitline in game ...including the herald traitline that the devs stated not requiring a tradeoff

Every elite spec SHOULD have a trade off, and the devs think so too which is why they’ve said that and have been adding them into specs that don’t have them.

All necro elites have a trade off of their shroud completely changing, scourge for example has a pitifully low amount of survivability compared to either of the other specs because it has an absolute LACK of a shroud in exchange for powerful offense and support via shades. And ele has a trade off with weaver, it has a drawback of having a CD on every attunement when you swap (normal ele and tempest can power swap through all their attunements if they want), and also requires two swaps to get a full attunement.

And Soulbeast May lose access to their class mechanic in beast mode in a traditional sense, but they still gain all the benefits their pet would be giving them, both the skills and the buffs. It would be like saying the original berserker had a trade off because they couldn’t use their normal burst skills while they were in their primal rage, which as we can all see was not determined to be an actual trade off.

Your post is full of contradictions.

The devs stated that

herald was in no need for tradeoffs

so no...the devs think otherwise, going to

ele

, weaver has reduced CD on access to attunement but get double CD when trying to full attune, basically weavers can swap attunements faster than core eles so your comment is really wrong.

Necro, reaper and scourges still got access to base necro skills and traits if I am not wrong...and they change the way necro is played exactly as soulbeast, about scourges...

not only they can receive heals while in shroud mode compared to reapers and core necro but also get access to powerful barrier application

, whether they're good in 1v1...it's not really the issue here and totally skill dependant.

Already explained why soulbeast is balanced so no need to repeat myself , let's go straight to your "suggestion" ; you should try to explain us what will happen to all "on swap pet" traits and why soulbeast mode should have a CD at all, on top of that the whole traitline should be reworked, let's no forget about all merged skills that now will have to make up for the loss of 2nd pet.

They won't just remove our 2nd pet

...it wouldn't even be a ranger anymore, the devs will never do that...so pointless to even ask

P.S also explain what we're supposed to do with a single pet when not merged, you're removing a core mechanic and completely gut dps/sustain..everyting...what exactly other classes give up while not using elite mechanic?

Well herald does have a trade off now, since they no longer gain access to the F2 ability core revenant has now. Since core revenant came out with elite specs and wasn’t designed around core revenant really being a thing.

Also do you not understand what a trade off is? It’s not some direct nerf, they give something up in exchange for something else. Weaver gives up being able to power swap, and a very slow full attunement in exchange for a shorter CD on all of its attunements and the whole weaving mechanic.

Soulbeast has no trade off currently, it’s traitline sucks sure, and obviously they’d need to rework it, but they need to do that regardless, since no one in their right mind would take the Soulbeast traitline over any other one if they didn’t gain merge skills.

And how would removing a second pet make it “not ranger” it’s not meant to be identical to core ranger, it’s meant to be different. In exchange for the second pet you get access to merging. Your singular pet will do exactly what you use it for now when you’re a SB for the 10s Cd Soulbeast already has between merging. And if they remove the second pet they just make pet swap traits trigger on entering/exiting beast mode.

Let's just say that your idea would be more acceptable if the soulbeast traitline would be worth something without the merges....which is not currently as you correclty say, given the state of the ranger, more and more people are playing core ranger over everything already. In pvp where soulbeast has been nerfed to hell, top players use core rangers...soulbeast is merely an option in some situations...maybe you're looking at soulbeast from a pve/wvw point of view where the nerfs don't apply...in pvp is barely work with one pet while giving up better traits and sustain of core ranger which currently offer better sustain options of a soulbeast in similar role..sure there is boonbeast I guess but not nearly as strong as it is in pve/wvw

[Swagger.1459]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:I think the pet is Druid's problem.

It is. It was one of the reasons that allowed druid to be just as duel oriented as support oriented. And after countless nerfs to druid itself, they did the last smack on it and just cut off 20 % of the pets' stats. Well, last smack before they went havoc on Ancestral Grace too.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Rico.6873" said:New pets?Astral pet versions of your pet if you transform?Chrono was giving their own unique shatters so there is still a chance of druid getting something special!

What would you change with druid pets?

Would you let druid pets have a more active healing role?Shielding role for the tank or the ally with the lowest health?

The Druid itself needs the work, not pets.

Except they do, along with the rest of the druid. Penalizing you with - 20 % pet stats for using druid is a so kitten lazy. Incorperating them into the druid would be a lot better.

I don't even care if they remove the pet and basically make it 2/2 elite specs that have the possibility to ditch the core mechanic, it's better than being a mediocre support spec with an even worse pet.

Pets are a different issue than Druid. Working on pets doesn’t fix up Druid, it fixes pets.

And there aren’t “Druid” pets, they are pets accessible to Ranger, Druid and Soulbeast builds.

Eh? I never said "druid pets", and if I was to say "druid pets", it would obviously refer to the ranger's pet while playing as a druid. Duh.

When - 20 % pet stats is what you get from using druid, then pets are a part of the equation. That's the point, and why they in my opinion might aswell remove it from the elite spec and give druid F skills similar to a merged soulbeast. If ranger is gonna have a support spec, I don't wanna double dip into two half emtpy glasses (worse pet, average support relatively to other classes). I also already pointed out that the rest of the spec needs changes. One doesn't exclude the other.

Read.

Pets and specs are 2 different things. Fixing pets won’t magically make Druid better, nor the other way around. Those are 2 different areas that both need work

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9788/when-are-major-pet-issues-getting-fixed

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39412/eye-on-druid-ideas-yay

[Substance E.4852]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

Okay but you're still wrong

Being moderately okay at 1 (possibly dead) mode does not = strong in any sense of the word

[Brynioch.1873]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

You say "for example", but raiding is the ONLY thing it's "meta" in at all. And that's not because druid is good, but because core ranger got spirits and spotter, druid only adds some heals and might to it (which other classes can do). If you're gonna talk about how good druid is for raiding, you should know why that is - but you clearly don't.

If warrior ever got a heal spec, it would take the druid's role in a second. It's only missing the heals, and a soulbeast or any other ranger spec can grab the missing frost spirit.

not really .... frac meta too and pretty good in roaming

and warrior got healing now, but its a bad choice to make the bannerslave a healer since it deals tons of damage to the buffs it gives

Did you play any fractal in the last half year? Druid is out of the meta. Firebrigade replaced druid/chrono. Soulbeast takes frost spirit.No druid is not pretty good in roaming. The only thing it can actually do is annoy people and bore them to death. It is miles behind core ranger and soulbeast.

The only reason druids still exists in raids is because the group damage is really low. Increase it and druid dies. The healing is awful. The spec is just a might and spirit bot right now.

@kharmin.7683 said:I play OPvE and druid CA is basically worthless for me. I wish that any changes would address this play style at some point.

/me shrugs

They should ditch the current grand masters and add a customisation like the dodge traits for daredevil. Offensive support, defensive support, some kind of damage thingy for solo play.

[Virdo.1540]

well druid is one of the classes in WvW/PvP that can do mediocre damage while tanking up to 3-berserker geared players at once

[Durzlla.6295]

@Virdo.1540 said:well druid is one of the classes in WvW/PvP that can do mediocre damage while tanking up to 3-berserker geared players at once

I mean it can tank 3 berserker classes for longer than a lot of builds but even then it can’t do it for very long now that they can’t just reset the fight and come back.

And even then you’re not going to kill any of them, just distract them and be a nuisance eating up their time.

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

You say "for example", but raiding is the ONLY thing it's "meta" in at all. And that's not because druid is good, but because core ranger got spirits and spotter, druid only adds some heals and might to it (which other classes can do). If you're gonna talk about how good druid is for raiding, you should know why that is - but you clearly don't.

If warrior ever got a heal spec, it would take the druid's role in a second. It's only missing the heals, and a soulbeast or any other ranger spec can grab the missing frost spirit.

not really .... frac meta too and pretty good in roaming

and warrior got healing now, but its a bad choice to make the bannerslave a healer since it deals tons of damage to the buffs it gives

Did you play any fractal in the last half year? Druid is out of the meta. Firebrigade replaced druid/chrono. Soulbeast takes frost spirit.No druid is not pretty good in roaming. The only thing it can actually do is annoy people and bore them to death. It is miles behind core ranger and soulbeast.

The only reason druids still exists in raids is because the group damage is really low. Increase it and druid dies. The healing is awful. The spec is just a might and spirit bot right now.

@kharmin.7683 said:I play OPvE and druid CA is basically worthless for me. I wish that any changes would address this play style at some point.

/me shrugs

They should ditch the current grand masters and add a customisation like the dodge traits for daredevil. Offensive support, defensive support, some kind of damage thingy for solo play.

I mean Druid May be out of the “meta” for fractals but no one is going to refuse a Druid in their fractal group as the healer. It does it’s job and provides some nice damage boosts. Granted it still needs some form of buff/rework.

[Virdo.1540]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:well druid is one of the classes in WvW/PvP that can do mediocre damage while tanking up to 3-berserker geared players at once

I mean it can tank 3 berserker classes for longer than a lot of builds but even then it can’t do it for very long now that they can’t just reset the fight and come back.

And even then you’re not going to kill any of them, just distract them and be a nuisance eating up their time.

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

You say "for example", but raiding is the ONLY thing it's "meta" in at all. And that's not because druid is good, but because core ranger got spirits and spotter, druid only adds some heals and might to it (which other classes can do). If you're gonna talk about how good druid is for raiding, you should know why that is - but you clearly don't.

If warrior ever got a heal spec, it would take the druid's role in a second. It's only missing the heals, and a soulbeast or any other ranger spec can grab the missing frost spirit.

not really .... frac meta too and pretty good in roaming

and warrior got healing now, but its a bad choice to make the bannerslave a healer since it deals tons of damage to the buffs it gives

Did you play any fractal in the last half year? Druid is out of the meta. Firebrigade replaced druid/chrono. Soulbeast takes frost spirit.No druid is not pretty good in roaming. The only thing it can actually do is annoy people and bore them to death. It is miles behind core ranger and soulbeast.

The only reason druids still exists in raids is because the group damage is really low. Increase it and druid dies. The healing is awful. The spec is just a might and spirit bot right now.

@kharmin.7683 said:I play OPvE and druid CA is basically worthless for me. I wish that any changes would address this play style at some point.

/me shrugs

They should ditch the current grand masters and add a customisation like the dodge traits for daredevil. Offensive support, defensive support, some kind of damage thingy for solo play.

I mean Druid May be out of the “meta” for fractals but no one is going to refuse a Druid in their fractal group as the healer. It does it’s job and provides some nice damage boosts. Granted it still needs some form of buff/rework.

not really. Harrier deals enough damage even if they have +1800 toughness +they cant get away

[Kolisch.4691]

Anet only balances druid by watching roaming vids of tanky druids with a lot of sustain and chicken runaway skills fighting outnumbered against clueless pve zergers.

[Lazze.9870]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Druid is already strong enough, no need to rework except for nerfs

What is is with the ranger forum and attracting troll posters these days?

just saying lol (for example raid meta)

You say "for example", but raiding is the ONLY thing it's "meta" in at all. And that's not because druid is good, but because core ranger got spirits and spotter, druid only adds some heals and might to it (which other classes can do). If you're gonna talk about how good druid is for raiding, you should know why that is - but you clearly don't.

If warrior ever got a heal spec, it would take the druid's role in a second. It's only missing the heals, and a soulbeast or any other ranger spec can grab the missing frost spirit.

not really .... frac meta too and pretty good in roaming

and warrior got healing now, but its a bad choice to make the bannerslave a healer since it deals tons of damage to the buffs it gives

You didn't counter any of my arguments.

Druid is good in fractals. That doesn't make it "meta". Besides, being meta in raids automatically makes you good in other PvE modes. That doesn't make druid itself a good or well designed elite spec. It's still carried by core ranger for PvE support.

It's completelely out of the equation for PvP/WvW. You say roaming, and yes, druid can "perform" in smallscale groups, but you might aswell pick a scrapper for that role and go soulbeast yourself (boonbeast is an option if you still want some support in your build). And that scrapper can still join large scale zergs, while druid is just flat out ineffective for that same role.

Regardless, it's not just about how weak or strong it is, all the changes and (mostly) nerfs Anet has given druid has put it in a place where it would be better off with a rework. It's not fun to play.

I literally said "if warrior got a heal spec". I'm not refering to what warrior has in terms of healing right now, I'm refering to warrior getting an elite spec similar to druid, and how it would perform the same role druid does now, and likely would do it better. Why? Because it would be carried by core warrior support skills, which just happens to be stronger than core ranger support skills. But, if you don't understand what makes druid good in PvE, you wouldn't understand why I bring up warrior to make a comparison neither.

[Revolution.5409]

Yes on my druid I can 1vs10 without problems, jokes aside .. druid without a reworking of the lines will never be useful .. Anet, however, is too busy to give new builds to warrior who rework druid.

[Jarl.8607]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Plenty of classes get a new mechanic with their elite spec without losing their core mechanic.

Anet has already changed this on many professions, only engi has not yet been modified if I'm not mistaken

Im all for the idea to make elite specs have a tradeoff for being an elite spec. If a 20% stat reduction of pets is a good one is very debatable, but at least the intention is good. I dont know that much about other classes, but I wonder what the tradeoffs for soulbeast, firebrand, spellbreaker, mirage, etc. are. Pets are very instrumental for druid and a 20% stat nerf is pretty significant, but druid got nothing in return.

Soulbeast currently has no tradeoff. Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars total (instead of 3), and only gets tier 1 burst skills Ie the weakest one. Firebrand gets Tomes with significantly longer CDs in exchange for low CD instant cast abilities on their F1-F3 (I’d argue that they should also lost the passives, but that’s me), and Mirage loses the mobility from a normal dodge skill in exchange for a stationary dodge that can be done at all times.

So all of the ones you listed (minus Soulbeast) have a form of tradeoff. Whether it’s strong enough to warrant what they get in exchange is debatable. But I’d argue that since core warrior and core guardian are still things those professions definitely give up something. Mirage imo probably needs to get some unique shatters like chrono, and SB needs a trade off (probably gonna be just one pet)

The idea of tradeoff is to counter the add up of mechanics not adding an arbitrary weakness to an otherwise balanced spec, look at heralds ; all necro and ele elites.Berseker and Scrapper received trade off because they could use both their main mechanic and the elite one at the same time ( berseker was able to use normal burst + zerk burst before the changes and scrapper had still access to all F+ skills ).

Ranger effectively lose access to pet mechanics while in beastmode, a tradeoff idea would be valid if the ranger could go mergeform and still use the pet, given how top rangers use core variant ( and personally I use it also ) , it's safe to say that your statement is blatantly wrong , soulbeast is situational and not a must have like holo or mirage.

Druid received tradeoff because while using astral form he could still use his pets....if you still insist on your idea of tradeoff for soulbeast then I would expect to see a tradeoff for every single elite traitline in game ...including the herald traitline that the devs stated not requiring a tradeoff

Every elite spec SHOULD have a trade off, and the devs think so too which is why they’ve said that and have been adding them into specs that don’t have them.

All necro elites have a trade off of their shroud completely changing, scourge for example has a pitifully low amount of survivability compared to either of the other specs because it has an absolute LACK of a shroud in exchange for powerful offense and support via shades. And ele has a trade off with weaver, it has a drawback of having a CD on every attunement when you swap (normal ele and tempest can power swap through all their attunements if they want), and also requires two swaps to get a full attunement.

And Soulbeast May lose access to their class mechanic in beast mode in a traditional sense, but they still gain all the benefits their pet would be giving them, both the skills and the buffs. It would be like saying the original berserker had a trade off because they couldn’t use their normal burst skills while they were in their primal rage, which as we can all see was not determined to be an actual trade off.

They won't just remove our 2nd pet

...it wouldn't even be a ranger anymore, the devs will never do that...so pointless to even ask

I would 100% trade both pets for a Druid spec line that was built well.

[Revolution.5409]

Many ranger traits work only if it is possible to exchange pets or with their f2 abilities, during BM ranger can use the abilities of pets but can not exchange them or make them use their abilities, this means that unlike other professions or druid himself , Slb actually has limits and cannot take 100% of the advantages from pets and traits at the same time as BM mode, this is a trade-off for me, the removal of pets has nothing to do with this.

But even if Anet in the future wanted to make changes to the Slb mechanic I think he should still give priority to something else, Holosmith and Firebrand before others, these are the perfect examples of non-existent trade-offs. The first gets a spam skills with a CC chain without give up nothing, probably the most unbalanced profession at the moment. The second gets 15 skills by giving up 3 and can use them all, the ranger mechanic is a joke in comparison.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Revolution.5409 said:Many ranger traits work only if it is possible to exchange pets or with their f2 abilities, during BM ranger can use the abilities of pets but can not exchange them or make them use their abilities, this means that unlike other professions or druid himself , Slb actually has limits and cannot take 100% of the advantages from pets and traits at the same time as BM mode, this is a trade-off for me, the removal of pets has nothing to do with this.

But even if Anet in the future wanted to make changes to the Slb mechanic I think he should still give priority to something else, Holosmith and Firebrand before others, these are the perfect examples of non-existent trade-offs. The first gets a spam skills with a CC chain without give up nothing, probably the most unbalanced profession at the moment. The second gets 15 skills by giving up 3 and can use them all, the ranger mechanic is a joke in comparison.

The only thing SLB can’t benefit from in beastmode atm is swapping pets, passive buffs to pets affect the Slb, and the traits that trigger on the pets F2 skill trigger on “beast skills” which include Worldly Impact and the rest of those abilities. So no, you’re not sacrificing anything.

[anduriell.6280]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Many ranger traits work only if it is possible to exchange pets or with their f2 abilities, during BM ranger can use the abilities of pets but can not exchange them or make them use their abilities, this means that unlike other professions or druid himself , Slb actually has limits and cannot take 100% of the advantages from pets and traits at the same time as BM mode, this is a trade-off for me, the removal of pets has nothing to do with this.

But even if Anet in the future wanted to make changes to the Slb mechanic I think he should still give priority to something else, Holosmith and Firebrand before others, these are the perfect examples of non-existent trade-offs. The first gets a spam skills with a CC chain without give up nothing, probably the most unbalanced profession at the moment. The second gets 15 skills by giving up 3 and can use them all, the ranger mechanic is a joke in comparison.

The only thing SLB can’t benefit from in beastmode atm is swapping pets, passive buffs to pets affect the Slb, and the traits that trigger on the pets F2 skill trigger on “beast skills” which include Worldly Impact and the rest of those abilities. So no, you’re not sacrificing anything.

You are sacrificing the pet attacks and pets F2s which don't need LoS and have a range of 2000. I think thats enough.

[Lalary.3561]

But they already did, Druids are just as dead as Chronos are.

On a serious note, I believe Anet needs to undo 20% nerf on pets and add new druid trait that changes CA skills to offensive ones.Give us more options for builds.

[Lazze.9870]

@Lalary.3561 said:But they already did, Druids are just as dead as Chronos are.

On a serious note, I believe Anet needs to undo 20% nerf on pets and add new druid trait that changes CA skills to offensive ones.Give us more options for builds.

Wouldn't do druid any good to give it offensive CA skills. It would just add to the pile of mediocrity. Mediocre healing, mediocre pets, and its new shiny toy; mediocre offensive skills.

At this point they should remove the pet from the spec all together and make druid a proper support spec. Something it can excell in. Pet should be traded in for new F skills that work similarly to a merged Soulbeast. That way you enable the druid to act as a proper support while eliminating the pet which helped it act both as a duellist/sidenoder and as a damage spec back when it was still meta. Entering the avatar procs pet swap traits. Glyphs gets proper PBAoE effects around the druid, like scrapper gyros/wells. The staff needs a rework to basically all of its skill except Ancestral Grace. Traits can be reworked accordingly.

Keep Grace of the Land as it is so the PvE crowd doesn't flip out.

[anduriell.6280]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Lalary.3561 said:But they already did, Druids are just as dead as Chronos are.

On a serious note, I believe Anet needs to undo 20% nerf on pets and add new druid trait that changes CA skills to offensive ones.Give us more options for builds.

Wouldn't do druid any good to give it offensive CA skills. It would just add to the pile of mediocrity. Mediocre healing, mediocre pets, and its new shiny toy; mediocre offensive skills.

At this point they should remove the pet from the spec all together and make druid a proper support spec. Something it can excell in. Pet should be traded in for new F skills that work similarly to a merged Soulbeast. That way you enable the druid to act as a proper support while eliminating the pet which helped it act both as a duellist/sidenoder and as a damage spec back when it was still meta. Entering the avatar procs pet swap traits. Glyphs gets proper PBAoE effects around the druid, like scrapper gyros/wells. The staff needs a rework to basically all of its skill except Ancestral Grace. Traits can be reworked accordingly.

Keep Grace of the Land as it is so the PvE crowd doesn't flip out.

Or to have some support oriented pets instead...

The druids could use the pets always in passive to make the best use of the F2. The pets gets that -20% in toughtness, power, precision, condition damage, ferocity and vitality but they could get an extra 25% in healing and concentration.

[Celeste.9135]

I worry that whatever adjustments or reworks are made would just leave the Druid in an even worse off position than it already is... but then I barely even touch my Druid these days so what the heck.

Having pets interface with the elite spec in a way that makes more sense than just flat nerfing their stats across the board would be nice. Changing their functionality in a way that's actually fun to play with and could maybe help Druid where its hurting in both pve and pvp.

"You infuse your pets with celestial power, enhancing their supportive capabilities while reducing their offensive prowess" instead of "Oh you neglect the poor animals cuz you just love looking at the stars too much now." if anet is very attached the lore assignment of the nerf.