The end of Scourge dominance is near

[EremiteAngel.9765]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91449/potential-future-balance-changes-wvw#latest

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at WvW.

The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

In particular we’re looking at:

• Scourge

We’ve identified scourge as the major pain point in WvW right now, and more specifically Sand Savant’s big shade affecting 10 targets. This has pushed scourge far above other options in terms of damage, while also adding to its strong corrupts and solid barrier application. There are other aspects of scourge that we’re looking into for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that reducing their target cap back down to 5 is a significant change and we want to see how the meta adjusts before making any additional changes to shades. We do still have concerns about their corrupt potential, so we’re also making a slight adjustment to Devouring Darkness.

• Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
• Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team

The Grinch of Christmas past has come early for Scourge. I hope the devouring darkness change is split and affects Scourge only...not Core and Reaper...

But anyhow, share your thoughts in the WvW thread to earn us some cookies. We need some buffs to balance the nerf.

[noiwk.2760]

to be honest.. this is just the "end of Scourge" wvw is the only game mode where Scourge still worth something after the last nerf. now this will kill him completely and make him trash on WvW aswell.. they better just delete the class and make a new one later on..

[Anchoku.8142]

LoLSo many people called this one!

[noiwk.2760]

i need to start writting a good bye song to the Scourge class.. a class that once existed untill slowly every patch deleted from another game mode .. i think this one will be the final.. so time to write my poem for our beloved opss.. deleted Scourge

[Serenity.6304]

„It had a good life. Short, but good.“I said goodbye to it and moved on to core nec. I play it in pvp, sometimes in duo with a real good player, and enjoy it so much <3

[misterman.1530]

I think I've about had it with this game. Come this nerf, I'll probably just salvage what I can, sell the rest, clean out the bank and give whatever I can to the few remaining people I know. Was done for 5 months and reluctantly came back. Came back to Deadeyes and Soulbeasts and constantly invulnerable Warriors - yet Scourges are the problem.

Wow. Just wow.

[noiwk.2760]

@misterman.1530 said:I think I've about had it with this game. Come this nerf, I'll probably just salvage what I can, sell the rest, clean out the bank and give whatever I can to the few remaining people I know. Was done for 5 months and reluctantly came back. Came back to Deadeyes and Soulbeasts and constantly invulnerable Warriors - yet Scourges are the problem.

Wow. Just wow.

im really sad with what going on.. last patch was already too much for Scourge and honestly.. i quit my Scourge on PVE and made ele cause i felt its unplayable..

i started to only use Scourge on WvW but now they gonna remove him from WvW aswell..

i say stay with us and fight for Scourge i think we need to make our voice.. ill try send a tricket tho i do not think they will listen.. the thing is .. the pvp and wvw teams seems good and working with community but the pve balance team does not seem to care even 1 bit..

[Kagusaki.3176]

@misterman.1530 said:I think I've about had it with this game. Come this nerf, I'll probably just salvage what I can, sell the rest, clean out the bank and give whatever I can to the few remaining people I know. Was done for 5 months and reluctantly came back. Came back to Deadeyes and Soulbeasts and constantly invulnerable Warriors - yet Scourges are the problem.

Wow. Just wow.

I put down over 5k hours on necro in WvW and they just keep nerfing without compensating what they nerfed. If they removed the target cap, they should have at least added some type of support like more heals or more condi removal which I think scourge really needs since they said it's a support class. I'm done with scourge until Anet learns how to balance everything properly

[noiwk.2760]

@Kagusaki.3176 said:

@misterman.1530 said:I think I've about had it with this game. Come this nerf, I'll probably just salvage what I can, sell the rest, clean out the bank and give whatever I can to the few remaining people I know. Was done for 5 months and reluctantly came back. Came back to Deadeyes and Soulbeasts and constantly invulnerable Warriors - yet Scourges are the problem.

Wow. Just wow.

I put down over 5k hours on necro in WvW and they just keep nerfing without compensating what they nerfed. If they removed the target cap, they should have at least added some type of support like more heals or more condi removal which I think scourge really needs since they said it's a support class. I'm done with scourge until Anet learns how to balance everything properly

id love to see more supprtive stuff in PVE aswell or revert the changes from last patch in pve.. Scourge pve is trash right now its good for nothing if they nerf it on wvw

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91449/potential-future-balance-changes-wvw#latest

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at WvW.

The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

In particular we’re looking at:

• Scourge

We’ve identified scourge as the major pain point in WvW right now, and more specifically Sand Savant’s big shade affecting 10 targets. This has pushed scourge far above other options in terms of damage, while also adding to its strong corrupts and solid barrier application. There are other aspects of scourge that we’re looking into for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that reducing their target cap back down to 5 is a significant change and we want to see how the meta adjusts before making any additional changes to shades. We do still have concerns about their corrupt potential, so we’re also making a slight adjustment to Devouring Darkness.

• Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
• Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team

The Grinch of Christmas past has come early for Scourge. I hope the devouring darkness change is split and affects Scourge only...not Core and Reaper...

But anyhow, share your thoughts in the WvW thread to earn us some cookies. We need some buffs to balance the nerf.

why buffs? your class is easy to play, deals lots of damage, has good heals, insanely high hp and fat barrier on top of it.

In fact, I think, considering hp and barrier, it is time to nerf scourge damage A LOT.

[mazut.4296]

Yeah I rarely complain, but the latest changes are terrible... In pve my healing scourge potential is halved and as dps I no longer spawn shades. Now I have to be in melee all the time to use F skills... just meh.

[anduriell.6280]

Nah, it will only make more scourges will be requested. The damage, corruptions, cleanses and barriers will be there so there is nothing which can compete with that.

They could limit the targets to 3 and still will be the only one requested.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well, people will just take demonic lore over sand savant for 10 to 15 targets hit and more damage. The following patch ANet will nerf base shades back to 3 targets WvW only and WvW players will still find scourge to oppressive.

I find impressive that they still don't understand that sand savant isn't the issue, sand shade's area denial is the issue.

[anduriell.6280]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well, people will just take demonic lore over sand savant for 10 to 15 targets hit and more damage. The following patch ANet will nerf base shades back to 3 targets WvW only and WvW players will still find scourge to oppressive.

I find impressive that they still don't understand that sand savant isn't the issue, sand shade's area denial is the issue.Reducing the area wouldn't help either: Its the same as reducing the targets, they make it smaller you bring more scourges.

Let's say: Remove or nerf heavily the direct and condition damage shades do. Let it be as offensive support with the barrier and corruptions (and damage traits).That would push the scourge out from the dps slot. And make space for eles or Chronos.

[Syrus.2174]

As much as I appreciate any nerf to scourge, as it has good damage, lots of life, barriers to throw around and corrupts boons ... I feel like that last one makes me wonder one thing: if they nerf scourge to a properly balanced level, how will zergs and those attacking zergs deal with the insane amount of boon spam that is meta nowadays?If you don't have the ludicrous amount of boon removal/corrupt that a scourge throws up all over the battlefield, what alternatives are there?

Overall I think, if there was a "trait-path" choice for Scourges - and mind you, while I have a Scourge, I rarely played it, so excuse me, if I lack knowledge in the specific way it works - for either to go full damage, and then deal acceptable damage to be considered a damage dealer or to go full boon removal/corrupt, which would significantly reduce the damage output, putting them in a proper support role.The amount of barriers given should also depend on whether you pick traits for damage or support.

While Scourge damage doesn't spike as high as other classes, I feel like the allroundness of them, combined with the high area denial is problematic.

[Blocki.4931]

I feel like Scourge just shouldn't be able to do both. Differentiate their ability to support or deal damage, never have both.

[Axl.8924]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91449/potential-future-balance-changes-wvw#latest

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at WvW.

The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

In particular we’re looking at:

• Scourge

We’ve identified scourge as the major pain point in WvW right now, and more specifically Sand Savant’s big shade affecting 10 targets. This has pushed scourge far above other options in terms of damage, while also adding to its strong corrupts and solid barrier application. There are other aspects of scourge that we’re looking into for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that reducing their target cap back down to 5 is a significant change and we want to see how the meta adjusts before making any additional changes to shades. We do still have concerns about their corrupt potential, so we’re also making a slight adjustment to Devouring Darkness.

• Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
• Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team

The Grinch of Christmas past has come early for Scourge. I hope the devouring darkness change is split and affects Scourge only...not Core and Reaper...

But anyhow, share your thoughts in the WvW thread to earn us some cookies. We need some buffs to balance the nerf.

why buffs? your class is easy to play, deals lots of damage, has good heals, insanely high hp and fat barrier on top of it.

In fact, I think, considering hp and barrier, it is time to nerf scourge damage A LOT.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91449/potential-future-balance-changes-wvw#latest

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at WvW.

The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

In particular we’re looking at:

• Scourge

We’ve identified scourge as the major pain point in WvW right now, and more specifically Sand Savant’s big shade affecting 10 targets. This has pushed scourge far above other options in terms of damage, while also adding to its strong corrupts and solid barrier application. There are other aspects of scourge that we’re looking into for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that reducing their target cap back down to 5 is a significant change and we want to see how the meta adjusts before making any additional changes to shades. We do still have concerns about their corrupt potential, so we’re also making a slight adjustment to Devouring Darkness.

• Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
• Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team

The Grinch of Christmas past has come early for Scourge. I hope the devouring darkness change is split and affects Scourge only...not Core and Reaper...

But anyhow, share your thoughts in the WvW thread to earn us some cookies. We need some buffs to balance the nerf.

why buffs? your class is easy to play, deals lots of damage, has good heals, insanely high hp and fat barrier on top of it.

In fact, I think, considering hp and barrier, it is time to nerf scourge damage A LOT.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91449/potential-future-balance-changes-wvw#latest

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at WvW.

The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

In particular we’re looking at:

• Scourge

We’ve identified scourge as the major pain point in WvW right now, and more specifically Sand Savant’s big shade affecting 10 targets. This has pushed scourge far above other options in terms of damage, while also adding to its strong corrupts and solid barrier application. There are other aspects of scourge that we’re looking into for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that reducing their target cap back down to 5 is a significant change and we want to see how the meta adjusts before making any additional changes to shades. We do still have concerns about their corrupt potential, so we’re also making a slight adjustment to Devouring Darkness.

• Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
• Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team

The Grinch of Christmas past has come early for Scourge. I hope the devouring darkness change is split and affects Scourge only...not Core and Reaper...

But anyhow, share your thoughts in the WvW thread to earn us some cookies. We need some buffs to balance the nerf.

why buffs? your class is easy to play, deals lots of damage, has good heals, insanely high hp and fat barrier on top of it.

In fact, I think, considering hp and barrier, it is time to nerf scourge damage A LOT.

Its a problem in zerg blobs as after the nerf its pretty weak to roaming and has to stick to people and in pve now under performs.

When something under performs it should be checked up, otherwise balance is messed up.

Also others have said this but if you get enough players boon corrupting of course its going to make your boons disappear and condis are super weak without boon corrupt as other classes have far more condi.

the problem is also ANET seems to not know how to balance necro and being a sitting duck punching bag is not fun.

[Dadnir.5038]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well, people will just take

demonic lore

over

sand savant

for 10 to 15 targets hit and more damage. The following patch ANet will nerf base shades back to 3 targets WvW only and WvW players will still find scourge to oppressive.

I find impressive that they still don't understand that

sand savant

isn't the issue, sand shade's area denial is the issue.Reducing the area wouldn't help either: Its the same as reducing the targets, they make it smaller you bring more scourges.

Let's say: Remove or nerf heavily the direct and condition damage shades do. Let it be as offensive support with the barrier and corruptions (and damage traits).That would push the scourge out from the dps slot. And make space for eles or Chronos.

Well, that's it.

The scourge's issue is both the manifest sand shade proc and desert shroud. From the very begining ANet just needed to get rid of those and the scourge would have been on the right path to be balanced. Instead of that they fancy tempering with cool down, add meaningless delay, hit hard on QoL and let themself being led astray by players that wrongly think that Sand savant is the problem.

Let me say it again, there would have been complains about scourge for the exact same reason there are complains nowaday even if sand savant had never existed. The issue isn't the big circle, the issue is and have always been the damages, procs and conditions loaded into this circle. Nobody care about deadeye being able to pour out insane amount of boon in a large area around them and their marked target, If ANet were to add damaging condition and power of damage on top of these boons, the community would riot for the exact same reason the community complains about scourge.

[Axl.8924]

Can we please have choice somehow? where we can access support or be offensive condi?

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well, people will just take

demonic lore

over

sand savant

for 10 to 15 targets hit and more damage. The following patch ANet will nerf base shades back to 3 targets WvW only and WvW players will still find scourge to oppressive.

I find impressive that they still don't understand that

sand savant

isn't the issue, sand shade's area denial is the issue.Reducing the area wouldn't help either: Its the same as reducing the targets, they make it smaller you bring more scourges.

Let's say: Remove or nerf heavily the direct and condition damage shades do. Let it be as offensive support with the barrier and corruptions (and damage traits).That would push the scourge out from the dps slot. And make space for eles or Chronos.

Well, that's it.

The scourge's issue is both the

manifest sand shade

proc and

desert shroud

. From the very begining ANet just needed to get rid of those and the scourge would have been on the right path to be balanced. Instead of that they fancy tempering with cool down, add meaningless delay, hit hard on QoL and let themself being led astray by players that wrongly think that

Sand savant

is the problem.

Let me say it again, there would have been complains about scourge for the exact same reason there are complains nowaday even if

sand savant

had never existed. The issue isn't the big circle, the issue is and have always been the damages, procs and conditions loaded into this circle. Nobody care about deadeye being able to pour out insane amount of boon in a large area around them and their marked target, If ANet were to add damaging condition and power of damage on top of these boons, the community would riot for the exact same reason the community complains about scourge.

What are the chances of ANET nerfing boon corrupts and adding condis to necro?

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Axl.8924" said:What are the chances of ANET nerfing boon corrupts and adding condis to necro?

The chance are nigh null. Simply because ANet is deadset on having boon corruption being a main mechanism of the necromancer and a part of the community is more than happy about this fact.

It should be clear to everyone that ANet have a poor understanding on how bad boon corruption is in PvE since they still keep boon corruption high in this gamemode. Do PvE care about having 3 boons corruption on scepter#3? Nope! Do ANet realise that mobs with aegis, vigor, stability or even regen are so rare that necromancer could careless about boon corruption to increase their dps? Do ANet even realise how useless "soft" conditions are against mobs with a breakbar?

Boon corrupt is a PvP/WvW tool that don't work in PvE because mobs are fondamentally different than players. They got more health but don't dodge. They scale where players don't. They got the ultimate indomitable/breakbar system while players are reliant on boons and condi cleanse. Boss mobs stand strong without the need of boon against a swarm of players. There is simply no room for boon corruption to significantly matter in PvE.

Yet despite all that, boon corruption is an important tool for PvP/WvW balance and ANet policy is to split number, not mechanisms. ANet won't nerf boon corruption to add condi, they may nerf it in WvW but they won't see the issue in PvE, in fact since it's strong in WvW they will just think that more boon corrupt in PvE will benefit the necromancer.

This is just their mindset which is fondamentally wrong and make them push desperatly this profession into the same deadend over and over.

[Anchoku.8142]

Arenanet should have boon corruptions inflict Terror on targets with Defiance, though keep the immunity to control effects. Terror should stack in intensity to at least 25. Stacks and duration should depend on the skill used, specializations, and traits.

This is a solid mechanism to return utility and dps in PvE.

[Voltekka.2375]

It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Voltekka.2375" said:It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

And it's equally sad to see that you don't understand that such change can only push players toward the "dps" trait when the reason all this nerfs happen to the scourge is the damage that is packed into the shades. People will turn themself toward demonic lore and generate more pressure out of their "little" shades just like everyone and it's grandma was playing dhuumfire despite their build being a "power" build when it was the only "dps" trait.

It's not a matter of synergy, it's a matter of being realist. Nerfing sand savant is not the solution to the issue in WvW, it just push players toward another traits which will generate as much tear and plea for nerf, "because scourge apply to much conditions and deal to much damage". It's simple, when you remove the QoL and remove the value of a "support" trait, people never fail to turn themself toward damage even if it's a minute increase.

NB.: Unless you didn't see or know, demonic lore also increase torment damage by 33% and scourge vomit torment be it with it's shades or it's skills. Also, it's a 3 seconds CD on burn per target, burn isn't applied to a single target like you seem to think.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

And it's equally sad to see that you don't understand that such change can only push players toward the "dps" trait when the reason all this nerfs happen to the scourge is the damage that is packed into the shades. People will turn themself toward

demonic lore

and generate more pressure out of their "little" shades just like everyone and it's grandma was playing dhuumfire despite their build being a "power" build when it was the only "dps" trait.

It's not a matter of synergy, it's a matter of being realist. Nerfing

sand savant

is not the solution to the issue in WvW, it just push players toward another traits which will generate as much tear and plea for nerf, "because scourge apply to much conditions and deal to much damage". It's simple, when you remove the QoL and remove the value of a "support" trait, people never fail to turn themself toward damage even if it's a minute increase.

NB.: Unless you didn't see or know,

demonic lore

also increase torment damage by 33% and scourge vomit torment be it with it's shades or it's skills. Also, it's a 3 seconds CD on burn per target, burn isn't applied to a single target like you seem to think.

From the wiki:"Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn.This trait can only inflict burning on a particular target once every three seconds.

Damage.png Damage Increase: 33%Burning.png Burning (3s): 393 Damage"

Good luck with this in a blob, where the damage will be laughable and cleansed almost instantly. This isnt a "dps" trait in power builds.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

play reaper instead