Where is staff used now days? If it is at all

[Zexanima.7851]

As someone who's been learning ele and weaver specifically I've been almost exclusively running S/D for sPvP/Fractals. I would like to learn to use staff just because I do like the idea of the weapon but I don't really see any builds out there anywhere for it under any content. Every ele I face in PvP that uses one I absolutely crush. My questions are...

• Are they any good builds for any content that use staff?
• Would it be better under core than weaver maybe?

[Infusion.7149]

Used in WvW for ranged damage on weaver with twist of fate and mist form. Just be aware it is typically run with marauder gear and with heavy amounts of support from firebrand / scrapper / scourge (barrier).

[Lexi.1398]

For PvE (raid/fractal), a while ago staff had two of it's skills massively nerfed - you can still use it for a condition damage build, but it's not optimal and is also harder to use.

Staff Heal Tempest is a thing in raids, and it's usefulness is highly debated compared to dagger/warhorn heal tempest. Both builds have different pros and cons to them, but dagger/warhorn is IMO more useful even if the might isn't required due to presence of druid, fury is still nice and the boon extension is quite valuable for lower skill groups (where you use heal tempest, high skill groups don't need heal tempest at all.)

Staff Weaver is still better with weaver than core simply because weaver is better than taking another traitline.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

WvW staff elementalist (usually weaver, sometimes tempest) is still the top damage dealer in zerg fights.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Staff healer for WvW is one of the best raw healers.

Staff is the best heal weapon, much much better than /WH by miles. Don’t be tricked by the flashy effect descriptions on one handed weapons...it’s usually the more simple things that are more powerful.

Go minstrels if your in need of the training wheels, then ditch that for full Magi’s. You’ll want to eventually go for Full BIS healing (80% healing mods with 1800 healing power)

For Spvp? There’s almost no viable staff ele build other than support staff, which is basically more like a Rez-bot pealing type build. It can be played very nicely, but it’s a mere shadow of its WvW counterpart.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Just keep in mind for damage, Tempest is better in melee (D/D or D/W) because overloads are melee, with Overload Fire having an especially poor range. Similarly, Weaver is very good with staff without that limitation, as "weaving" replaces overloads.

On the other hand Tempest often use staves for support due to the powerful heals, cleanses, and even AoE revival. This allows them to both support at range with staff and at melee with Overload Water/Earth, Shouts and Auras, covering a large group easily. This also has a side effect: a Tempest built with a staff is very hard to kill because they have alot of range and a ton of CC at their disposal, which makes them probably the least vulnerable support class in the game; its common for Tempests to never die in a battle until they're the only players left.

They're also very good at using combo fields even at max range, increasing their support capabilities even further. But I'll be honest, if there's anything that's hard to fully master in this game, its a staff support Tempest. At least in the comparison to playing something like Firebrand and barfing boons and heals on your group while having a ton of armor and defense by default (and yes, still high range support staff..).

Just play how you want. Everything is viable if you take the time to master it.

[Fueki.4753]

Elementalist, despite being the one profession with the lowest health and lowest armour, has been shoe-horned into melee.With Tempest Overloads and Weaver's sword, I can't see why anyone would use staff on Elementalist.It deals less damage than sword or daggers and takes longer to deal it.

Other than someone dedicated to being a Water Healer, using only the 2 healing skills on staff and Water-Overload, I can't see why anyone would use it.I can't fathom anyone playing like that though.

[anonymous.7812]

@Fueki.4753 said:Elementalist, despite being the one profession with the lowest health and lowest armour, has been shoe-horned into melee.With Tempest Overloads and Weaver's sword, I can't see why anyone would use staff on Elementalist.It deals less damage than sword or daggers and takes longer to deal it.

Other than someone dedicated to being a Water Healer, using only the 2 healing skills on staff and Water-Overload, I can't see why anyone would use it.I can't fathom anyone playing like that though.

1,3,5 in water heal. Tempest brings a lot of clears, heals and CC. Best immob spammer out there. Definitely good in large group play. Fathom people not playing pve.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@anonymous.7812 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Elementalist, despite being the one profession with the lowest health and lowest armour, has been shoe-horned into melee.With Tempest Overloads and Weaver's sword, I can't see why anyone would use staff on Elementalist.It deals less damage than sword or daggers and takes longer to deal it.

Other than someone dedicated to being a Water Healer, using

only

the 2 healing skills on staff and Water-Overload, I can't see why anyone would use it.I can't fathom anyone playing like that though.

1,3,5 in water heal. Tempest brings a lot of clears, heals and CC. Best immob spammer out there. Definitely good in large group play. Fathom people not playing pve.

I'll just add that even in PvE, staff Tempest is meta in raids and T4 fractals when no other healer is present.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Fueki.4753 said:Elementalist, despite being the one profession with the lowest health and lowest armour, has been shoe-horned into melee.With Tempest Overloads and Weaver's sword, I can't see why anyone would use staff on Elementalist.It deals less damage than sword or daggers and takes longer to deal it.

Other than someone dedicated to being a Water Healer, using only the 2 healing skills on staff and Water-Overload, I can't see why anyone would use it.I can't fathom anyone playing like that though.

I actually find playing Staff tempest pretty fun everything outside of Fire attunement is pretty good and even on Fire attunement you get Burning retreat if you need to get out of a tough spot, I do agree though, if we do get another elite spec I'd like a Long range weapon, for me it's got to be Longbow

[reikken.4961]

staff is essentially support only. it works usably well on support builds.It's also good for wide area (stationary) power dps. and I do mean dps. like for things that take 10+ seconds to kill. For single target or just smaller AoE, or for faster damage, the other weapons are better.

It's just way too slow to excel at doing damage most of the time.

Lava Font needs to do a tick of damage as soon as it's placed. That would help quite a bit.And Eruption and Ice Spike need either the cast time deleted or the delay reduced. Lightning Surge needs the cast reduced a bit as well.

[RedShark.9548]

@reikken.4961 said:staff is essentially support only. it works usably well on support builds.It's also good for wide area (stationary) power dps. and I do mean dps. like for things that take 10+ seconds to kill. For single target or just smaller AoE, or for faster damage, the other weapons are better.

It's just way too slow to excel at doing damage most of the time.

Lava Font needs to do a tick of damage as soon as it's placed. That would help quite a bit.And Eruption and Ice Spike need either the cast time deleted or the delay reduced. Lightning Surge needs the cast reduced a bit as well.

Uhhh, no.In a wvw zerg a well played staff weaver is the topdog of dmg. Better than heralds and necros.

[reikken.4961]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@reikken.4961 said:staff is essentially support only. it works usably well on support builds.It's also good for wide area (stationary) power dps. and I do mean dps. like for things that take 10+ seconds to kill. For single target or just smaller AoE, or for faster damage, the other weapons are better.

It's just way too slow to excel at doing damage most of the time.

Lava Font needs to do a tick of damage as soon as it's placed. That would help quite a bit.And Eruption and Ice Spike need either the cast time deleted or the delay reduced. Lightning Surge needs the cast reduced a bit as well.

Uhhh, no.In a wvw zerg a well played staff weaver is the topdog of dmg. Better than heralds and necros.I don't see how that goes against anything I said. WvW zerg is very wide area.

[RedShark.9548]

@reikken.4961 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@reikken.4961 said:staff is essentially support only. it works usably well on support builds.It's also good for wide area (stationary) power dps. and I do mean dps. like for things that take 10+ seconds to kill. For single target or just smaller AoE, or for faster damage, the other weapons are better.

It's just way too slow to excel at doing damage most of the time.

Lava Font needs to do a tick of damage as soon as it's placed. That would help quite a bit.And Eruption and Ice Spike need either the cast time deleted or the delay reduced. Lightning Surge needs the cast reduced a bit as well.

Uhhh, no.In a wvw zerg a well played staff weaver is the topdog of dmg. Better than heralds and necros.I don't see how that goes against anything I said. WvW zerg is very wide area.

Sorry my fault, i got hung up on the "staff is essentially support only."

[Stand The Wall.6987]

you can use power staff in pvp but don't expect to climb past p1.

[Liberis.9573]

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:you can use power staff in pvp but don't expect to climb past p1.

1500 is already the top ~10% of players. If glass staff is good enough for that, it's pretty good

Core glass staff is amazing in spvp: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/12149/core-glass-cannon-staff-ele-for-spvp-october-2017

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@RedShark.9548 said:In a wvw zerg a well played staff weaver is the topdog of dmg. Better than heralds and necros.

there is one ele player on my server who usually does more damage than the the next 3 non-weaver players combind. That guy is a MONSTER.

@Infusion.7149 said:Used in WvW for ranged damage on weaver with twist of fate and mist form. Just be aware it is typically run with marauder gear and with heavy amounts of support from firebrand / scrapper / scourge (barrier).

support? what support? Most coms put us in our own party with 0 support. If we are lucky we get a tempest - which has to stay with the tag, so you are on your own again. You need to learn to flank and not stand in red circles. Which makes all the complaining of the scourges even more hilarious. They get their fbs and revs to protect and boost them and they still cry about their cruel fate . . .

[anonymous.7812]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@RedShark.9548 said:In a wvw zerg a well played staff weaver is the topdog of dmg. Better than heralds and necros.

there is one ele player on my server who usually does more damage than the the next 3 non-weaver players combind. That guy is a MONSTER.

@Infusion.7149 said:Used in WvW for ranged damage on weaver with twist of fate and mist form. Just be aware it is typically run with marauder gear and with heavy amounts of support from firebrand / scrapper / scourge (barrier).

support? what support? Most coms put us in our own party with 0 support. If we are lucky we get a tempest - which has to stay with the tag, so you are on your own again. You need to learn to flank and not stand in red circles. Which makes all the complaining of the scourges even more hilarious. They get their fbs and revs to protect and boost them and they still cry about their cruel fate . . .

Find another com, or join a guild that will support you. Weavers can stay with the tag quite a bit however, if you're properly supported. Point blank Weaver AoE can really hurt in a melee ball comp, too.

Typically you don't see more than 1-2 damage eles per 25 though.

[solemn.9608]

wvw

.obligatory warning about mature language in music

[Infusion.7149]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:>there is one ele player on my server who usually does more damage than the the next 3 non-weaver players combind. That guy is a MONSTER.

@"Infusion.7149" said:Used in WvW for ranged damage on weaver with twist of fate and mist form. Just be aware it is typically run with marauder gear and with heavy amounts of support from firebrand / scrapper / scourge (barrier).

support? what support? Most coms put us in our own party with 0 support. If we are lucky we get a tempest - which has to stay with the tag, so you are on your own again. You need to learn to flank and not stand in red circles. Which makes all the complaining of the scourges even more hilarious. They get their fbs and revs to protect and boost them and they still cry about their cruel fate . . .

Elementalist is not nearly as strong in the hands of inexperienced players as it was before which is why they aren't as popular, see lava font (does less than auto attacks if targets are moving) and meteor shower nerfs ("meteor sprinkle" jokes). Before, meteor shower didn't scale damage down based on the number of times it hit. When you see large meteor shower numbers it's usually a glassy weaver ele (Elemental Polyphony applies +120 Power in fire attunement) with 10-25 might from Pyromancer's Puissance (so up to +750 Power) as well as Power Overwhelming for additional +150 power with 10+ might stacks. Bolt to the Heart in the air traitline grants an additional 20% damage versus targets less than 50% health and using air traitline also allows for additional ferocity from Ferocious Winds. The 20% vs <50% HP trait is similar to power necros' Close to Death in Spite or revenant's Swift Termination. Even if you do get a meteor shower off , if you don't have proper support the retaliation will hurt since it hits up to 24 times (200ish retal adds up).

Weavers fell out of favor relative to scourges simply because it takes much less effort to hit people with scourges until last patch. Weavers still have to be mindful of warriors running tactics for the huge damage bonus against barriers (because weaver barriers are small unlike scourges'). If you wanted big power damage, phase smash or Drop the Hammer have much lower cast times ; if you have staff daredevils then Vault does far more provided the daredevils can actually get in melee range.

When you have the support of guardians (protection, stability, aegis) and heralds (fury, might,swiftness), elementalist is able to do more against targets without protection (which only counters power damage). Swiftness procs the Swift Revenge trait on weaver for additional 10% damage. In addition if you want to you can switch air traitline to arcane to get Bountiful Power (2% damage per boon on you) instead of 20% damage versus targets less than 50% HP.

Necromancers will continue to remain relevant due to ranged AoE boon conversions from well of corruption, unholy feast (600 range PBAOE on axe 3), feast of corruption/devouring darkness , reapers have access to "Nothing Can Save You!" (600 range PBAOE), scourges can use Sand Flare (PBAOE 240 radius), Nefarious Favor when traited with Path of Corruption, Ghastly Breach (PBAOE 300 radius) and Serpent Siphon. There's also Spinal Shivers (focus 5) commonly used on power reaper even though corrupt boon is less common as well as Trail of Anguish , Sand Swell, and Dessicate for scourges. The class alternative is spellbreaker, which is favored when the enemy team has multiple scrappers for condition conversion. Mesmers would be considered more often if null field was stronger, Phantasmal Disenchanter (is not consistent enough especially in squad play due to enemy AoE/cleave) , plus the Greatsword 3 (Mind Stab) since shatters that could proc Shattered Concentration in Domination traitline are reliant on clones.

[Abelisk.5148]

It is a shame that Staff is such a niche weapon in PvP. I really hope the new PvP balance team is able to make meaningful PvP-only changes to it as a weapon kit. For example, one advantage Staff could have as a support is being entirely ranged. This is an advantage over Firebrand due to being ranged and away from the team fight.

For Weaver I recommend the Typhoon dual skill being an evade, similar to Twist of Fate, and most skills having their cast times significantly reduced. Most projectile skills on Staff are now homing towards the target similar to Scepter's skills. A few skills such as AoE skills are completely overhauled to be more PvP friendly such as some of the dual skills. Earth 4 could also become Ring of Earth instead, which creates a ring that knocks back enemies without stability, and is not able to be evaded through.

[Fueki.4753]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:It is a shame that Staff is such a niche weapon in PvP. I really hope the new PvP balance team is able to make meaningful PvP-only changes to it as a weapon kit. For example, one advantage Staff could have as a support is being entirely ranged. This is an advantage over Firebrand due to being ranged and away from the team fight.

And then your support Ele gets teleported to and safely gets murdered, because noone is around to defend her.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Infusion.7149 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:>there is one ele player on my server who usually does more damage than the the next 3 non-weaver players combind. That guy is a MONSTER.

@Infusion.7149 said:Used in WvW for ranged damage on weaver with twist of fate and mist form. Just be aware it is typically run with marauder gear and with heavy amounts of support from firebrand / scrapper / scourge (barrier).

support? what support? Most coms put us in our own party with 0 support. If we are lucky we get a tempest - which has to stay with the tag, so you are on your own again. You need to learn to flank and not stand in red circles. Which makes all the complaining of the scourges even more hilarious. They get their fbs and revs to protect and boost them and they still cry about their cruel fate . . .

Elementalist is not nearly as strong in the hands of inexperienced players as it was before which is why they aren't as popular, see lava font (does less than auto attacks if targets are moving) and meteor shower nerfs ("meteor sprinkle" jokes). Before, meteor shower didn't scale damage down based on the number of times it hit. When you see large meteor shower numbers it's usually a glassy weaver ele (Elemental Polyphony applies +120 Power in fire attunement) with 10-25 might from Pyromancer's Puissance (so up to +750 Power) as well as Power Overwhelming for additional +150 power with 10+ might stacks. Bolt to the Heart in the air traitline grants an additional 20% damage versus targets less than 50% health and using air traitline also allows for additional ferocity from Ferocious Winds. The 20% vs <50% HP trait is similar to power necros' Close to Death in Spite or revenant's Swift Termination. Even if you do get a meteor shower off , if you don't have proper support the retaliation will hurt since it hits up to 24 times (200ish retal adds up).

Weavers fell out of favor relative to scourges simply because it takes much less effort to hit people with scourges until last patch. Weavers still have to be mindful of warriors running tactics for the huge damage bonus against barriers (because weaver barriers are small unlike scourges'). If you wanted big power damage, phase smash or Drop the Hammer have much lower cast times ; if you have staff daredevils then Vault does far more provided the daredevils can actually get in melee range.

When you have the support of guardians (protection, stability, aegis) and heralds (fury, might,swiftness), elementalist is able to do more against targets without protection (which only counters power damage). Swiftness procs the Swift Revenge trait on weaver for additional 10% damage. In addition if you want to you can switch air traitline to arcane to get Bountiful Power (2% damage per boon on you) instead of 20% damage versus targets less than 50% HP.

Necromancers will continue to remain relevant due to ranged AoE boon conversions from well of corruption, unholy feast (600 range PBAOE on axe 3), feast of corruption/devouring darkness , reapers have access to "Nothing Can Save You!" (600 range PBAOE), scourges can use Sand Flare (PBAOE 240 radius), Nefarious Favor when traited with Path of Corruption, Ghastly Breach (PBAOE 300 radius) and Serpent Siphon. There's also Spinal Shivers (focus 5) commonly used on power reaper even though corrupt boon is less common as well as Trail of Anguish , Sand Swell, and Dessicate for scourges. The class alternative is spellbreaker, which is favored when the enemy team has multiple scrappers for condition conversion. Mesmers would be considered more often if null field was stronger, Phantasmal Disenchanter (is not consistent enough especially in squad play due to enemy AoE/cleave) , plus the Greatsword 3 (Mind Stab) since shatters that could proc Shattered Concentration in Domination traitline are reliant on clones.

you utterly missed my point.

Which is: necros get ALL the support and still cry a lot. While elementalists who routinely outdamage everybody else get NOTHING and are just supposed to deal with it.

[Abelisk.5148]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:It is a shame that Staff is such a niche weapon in PvP. I really hope the new PvP balance team is able to make meaningful PvP-only changes to it as a weapon kit. For example, one advantage Staff could have as a support is being entirely ranged. This is an advantage over Firebrand due to being ranged and away from the team fight.

And then your support Ele gets teleported to and safely gets murdered, because noone is around to defend her.

Just dodge lol

[Fueki.4753]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:It is a shame that Staff is such a niche weapon in PvP. I really hope the new PvP balance team is able to make meaningful PvP-only changes to it as a weapon kit. For example, one advantage Staff could have as a support is being entirely ranged. This is an advantage over Firebrand due to being ranged and away from the team fight.

And then your support Ele gets teleported to and safely gets murdered, because noone is around to defend her.

Just dodge lol

There's only so little 2 dodges and fire #4 (that's the back roll , right?) can avoid.That clearly not enough avoidance for a team to catch up and protect you from 1200 (+ your roll distance) units away.