Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I assume these changes are mainly intended for core mesmer and mirage. To 'fix' chrono, chrono clones probably should be virtually indestructible instead (made a previous suggestion where 'destroyed' clones freeze in place and become untargetable, but still serve as shatter fodder, reanimating themselves upon shatter). Whether inevitable shatters requires slight changes to chrono shatters, I am unsure.BECAUSE as it currently stands, a 1 clone Mind Wrack already outdamages a 3 clone Split Second w/ no slow (what is a power build even relying on a rare condi for?)The damage difference between a 1 clone Mind Wrack and 3 clone Mind Wrack is ~ 1 hit of Cry of Frustration.Should core shatters should already be that impactful even when just 1 clone is shattered? Alternatively, what would be so bad about allowing chrono to freely build up 3 clones when core just only needs/wants to shatter 1?Maybe the other core shatters should be changed so that they are equally as impactful with only just 1 clone. Then buffing clone survivability would become less necessary and ANET gets to keep their 'clones are squishy to identify the real mesmer' design (remembering npc mesmers/clone users exist too).Shouldn't the gameplay tradeoff between core/chrono/mirage be just having a clone to shatter/constantly shattering 3 clones/keeping clones up for dmg? Or does it have be imposed restrictions like loss of IP, which destroys the spec in certain gamemodes 'just cuz'?@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:I have a better idea, every time 'whatever' is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. So if the mesmer is destroyed, they only lose 25% health? :open_mouth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 @Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.No. One of the ways to counter Mesmer in PvP is to quickly kill clones. Why should that be removed? It is not like Mesmer struggles in sustainability.In addition, this will not help chrono. Chrono’s issues are so fundamentally broken that this would not do much to help and will break so many other aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 @otto.5684 said:snipsthe biggest problem chrono faces (and core mes to a lesser extent) is that clones die way to quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulGuardian.6203 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 My only real issue, that really annoys the heck out of me, is that I would like an option to replace mesmer clone-o-matic spammer with some more useful skills.I don't think mesmer should revolve entirely around clones, and also that alternatives should exist.GW1 mesmers are so much fun to play.Even if they didn't want to carry the interrupts legacy on, but at least should have kept hexes, and signets.Mesmer in gw1 is so much more than interrupts.You can use hundreds of builds without using a single interrupt.But the choice was there.Now you have no choice but to spam clones.Doesn't matter which weapon you use, you're stuck to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Adjusting the stats of clones is certainly a good thing to discuss, perhaps a traitline should adjust their stats much like Beastmastery does for pets.The invulnerability on creation would be wrong. First, it makes spot the Mesmer easier. Second, other players need the chance to clear the screen of the DPS and clutter.Can there be a trait somewhere that makes you and your clones invulnerable for X seconds under certain conditions? Sure, go for it. Make it a Chrono trait where if you hit 50% HP you and your clones are invulnerable for 2s, but they can't be shattered while invulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. why do you even post this nonsense ?because mesmers are game breaking OP. It is either that or remove stealth and lower damage by 75%. Or do you think it is balanced to take down a 18k enemy out of stealth in the fraction of a second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius!when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius!when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago. 1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immuneThe last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 @viquing.8254 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius!when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago. 1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immuneThe last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.@Stand The Wall.6987 said:ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon… In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@viquing.8254 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius!when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago. 1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immuneThe last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.@Stand The Wall.6987 said:ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon… In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.you realise that support firebrand can aoe cleave 1shot mesmer clones if he lands a crit right?most if not all power classes can 1shot them with mouse 1 with a crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 For PvE fine. For competitive modes? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedievalThings.5417 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 If they made them invulnerable, it would also mean they would have to add in that they can't be shattered while invulnerable either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@viquing.8254 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius!when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago. 1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immuneThe last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.@Stand The Wall.6987 said:ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon… In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.you realise that support firebrand can aoe cleave 1shot mesmer clones if he lands a crit right?most if not all power classes can 1shot them with mouse 1 with a crit.FB is not a strong AOE power. There are many builds that are far better in power AOE cleave. Regardless, this applies to melee clones. Ranged clones are typically too scattered around to be cleaved. If clones were so easy to kill Mesmer we have gone extinct from sPvP years ago, and it is not.Chrono needs much help, but this clone invulnerability is a misguided approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 @otto.5684 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@viquing.8254 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.good idea or no?editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health. Wholeheartly agree!While you're at it make a patch also with this:Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hpEvery time you use a virtue you lose 10% hpEvery time you change legendary you lose 20% hpEvery time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hpEvery time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hpEvery point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hpEvery time you change attunement you lose 10% hpEvery time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.How awesome! You sir are a genius!when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago. 1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immuneThe last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.@Stand The Wall.6987 said:ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon… In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.you realise that support firebrand can aoe cleave 1shot mesmer clones if he lands a crit right?most if not all power classes can 1shot them with mouse 1 with a crit.FB is not a strong AOE power. There are many builds that are far better in power AOE cleave. Regardless, this applies to melee clones. Ranged clones are typically too scattered around to be cleaved. If clones were so easy to kill Mesmer we have gone extinct from sPvP years ago, and it is not.Chrono needs much help, but this clone invulnerability is a misguided approach. thats my point, SUPPORT class can 1shot clones with aoe, let alone dps.and ranged clones are only as scattered as you let them be, with proper line of sight manipulation they walk into melee on good chunk of the maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 @otto.5684 said:Chrono needs much help, but this clone invulnerability is a misguided approach. try to play chrono or any mes spec and build up 3 clones back to back, then tell me what would be a better solution? unless you're 1v1 against a class with low aoe its not that easy. besides this is not only a pvp problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanners.9428 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 It would certainly be helpful. +1At the moment clones can't even stay alive for 1 second in wvw blob fights to have enough time to cast continumn split, unless they reverse the shatter changes (see other threads) this could be an alternative. It can be a WvW split change only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber.6348 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I think Clones are fine right now. Give Chrono back Illusionary Persona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loules.8601 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 @SoulGuardian.6203 said:My only real issue, that really annoys the heck out of me, is that I would like an option to replace mesmer clone-o-matic spammer with some more useful skills.I don't think mesmer should revolve entirely around clones, and also that alternatives should exist.GW1 mesmers are so much fun to play.Even if they didn't want to carry the interrupts legacy on, but at least should have kept hexes, and signets.Mesmer in gw1 is so much more than interrupts.You can use hundreds of builds without using a single interrupt.But the choice was there.Now you have no choice but to spam clones.Doesn't matter which weapon you use, you're stuck to it.So much builds... e-surge and key-stone, maybe panic-mesm too. And that's all about real build diversity. Except the situations, when you want to create temporary or completely fun buildYes, I would probably like a build that would be similar to the Mesmer from the first part (Mesmer was my main in GW1). But I can't say that the Mesmer from the first part was better. Mesmer from GW2 is what the Mesmer, as class, should have been in the first place. A magic-illusionist, not a mixture of silence and burning energy machine. Yes, the Mesmer in GW1 was fun, but the Mesmer in GW2 is so much better, more fun, and more exciting. And the illusion mechanics are what make Mesmer my favorite incarnation of the mage characters from all the many MMOs I've played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 @Loules.8601from what I can tell you guys have difference in tastes.but in all honesty I dont see a reason for mesmer to be unable to play as both.there is alot of useless skills that could be reworked into something playable, without hurting what YOU liking in mesmer, while giving a chance to create something what@SoulGuardian.6203 wants from mesmer.I always thought that It would be a cool idea to introduce either1 exp spec that has no illusions, and ( phantasms could still appear and do their thing, and then they get resource for it )2 create GM traits that LOWER the number of illusions, and in turn provide strong bonus to something.for example-1 maximum clones, for every removed boon apply 2 stacks of confusion.-1 maximum clones, when confusion lasts its entire duration, it deals its damage before dissapearing-1 maximum clones, after interrupt apply debuf on the enemy for X sec. if that oponent uses mobility skill apply chill and deal masive damage to them.shrug, I see big potential for fun traits, but nothing will be done. one can dream tho right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackmonster.2790 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 We, we niid moar!! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly lyn.2173 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 hahahaha! because that would make mesmers VIABLE again and undo about 2 yrs of dev nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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