Nerf Thief

[NotFound.7813]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

[NotFound.7813]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

REDESIGN THIEF PROFESSION!!!!!

That won't stop people from complaining, Burnfall.Even if stealth got reworked and thief got cooldowns, the archetype itself will cause people to feel cheated and robbed as long as this game exists. Thieves will adapt and continue to be annoying and toxic as long as their class is at least borderline viable. Removal of their viability, further, is not an option.I'd love to have a game where people considered any match against me on thief fair if they also lost that match, but that's a pipe dream.All that matters is that there's an avenue to counterplay. A redesign is too much work for no result. As long as every class has an option to build in such a way that they can stall or beat a thief, that's all that we need.

U cant 1v1 a thief?

[AliamRationem.5172]

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying fly.

[NotFound.7813]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying

Thats because thief is not mean to 1v1 , thief loses every 1v1 matchup cuz it is a roamer mean to decap and outnumber fights rupting big cds like health . U wont see any decent thief taking any 1v1

Ofc it feels weird to 1v1 thieves at wvw , sd at least has a brief time where thief cant do nothing at the end of sword 2 or sword 3 animation , but dagger pistol is a anninyg af fight . But thats a purely wvw thing .

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying

Thats because thief is not mean to 1v1 , thief loses every 1v1 matchup cuz it is a roamer mean to decap and outnumber fights rupting big cds like health . U wont see any decent thief taking any 1v1

Ofc it feels weird to 1v1 thieves at wvw , sd at least has a brief time where thief cant do nothing at the end of sword 2 or sword 3 animation , but dagger pistol is a anninyg af fight . But thats a purely wvw thing .

ThIeF hAs No WiNnInG 1V1

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying

Thats because thief is not mean to 1v1 , thief loses every 1v1 matchup cuz it is a roamer mean to decap and outnumber fights rupting big cds like health . U wont see any decent thief taking any 1v1

Ofc it feels weird to 1v1 thieves at wvw , sd at least has a brief time where thief cant do nothing at the end of sword 2 or sword 3 animation , but dagger pistol is a anninyg af fight . But thats a purely wvw thing .

ThIeF hAs No WiNnInG 1V1

Short of maybe an unviable build, it really doesnt. Damage is non-existent, and it still doesnt survive nearly as well as anyone else.

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying

Thats because thief is not mean to 1v1 , thief loses every 1v1 matchup cuz it is a roamer mean to decap and outnumber fights rupting big cds like health . U wont see any decent thief taking any 1v1

Ofc it feels weird to 1v1 thieves at wvw , sd at least has a brief time where thief cant do nothing at the end of sword 2 or sword 3 animation , but dagger pistol is a anninyg af fight . But thats a purely wvw thing .

ThIeF hAs No WiNnInG 1V1

Thief has no winnig 1v1 against sidenoders that are the actual duelers , mesmer is not a dueler/sidenoder (used to be) mesmer is a roamer wich can take some better 1v1(than thief) vs sidenoders and can create better +1while getting countered by thief ,is stupid af at the same lv as justifying thief can 1v1 cuz it can 1v1 support tempest. dunno if u do this kinda posts cuz misundertanding for what a role in pvp is or u do it cuz ur a trol

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wevh.2903 oh no, so you are telling me that the fastest class in the game cant deal with builds specifically designed to bunker on a node?what a tragedy.you said thief has NO WINNING 1v1 which is a straight up lie.

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@wevh.2903 oh no, so you are telling me that the fastest class in the game cant deal with builds specifically designed to bunker on a node?what a tragedy.you said thief has NO WINNING 1v1 which is a straight up lie.

When u say something CANT take a 1v1 means it cant take 1v1 vs sidenoders or duelers wich are supposed to 1v1 in some scenenarios , it is a obvious thing something that something tjat is not mean to 1v1 dont 1v1 otherwise thats a bad rotation = lose xd , so winning 1v1 againt something that doenst 1v1 like sup tempest is obviosly ignered when ur talking about 1v1ing . Not all duelers are bunker sidenoders , holo is a roamer/dueler so it can take 1v1 .

Also ur statement is equal of saying thief can teamfight cuz the class can take a 3v3 vs two mesmers and one ranger XDDD extremely ridiculous

Not a teagedy is called pvp balanced

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@wevh.2903 oh no, so you are telling me that the fastest class in the game cant deal with builds specifically designed to bunker on a node?what a tragedy.you said thief has NO WINNING 1v1 which is a straight up lie.

When u say something CANT take a 1v1 means it cant take 1v1 vs sidenoders or duelers wich are supposed to 1v1 in some scenenarios , it is a obvious thing something that something tjat is not mean to 1v1 dont 1v1 otherwise thats a bad rotation = lose xd , so winning 1v1 againt something that doenst 1v1 like sup tempest is obviosly ignered when ur talking about 1v1ing . Not all duelers are bunker sidenoders , holo is a roamer/dueler so it can take 1v1 .

Also ur statement is equal of saying thief can teamfight cuz the class can take a 3v3 vs two mesmers and one ranger XDDD extremely ridiculous

Not a teagedy is called pvp balanced

ah, you are one of those thiefs that think its bad in teamfights. Everything you said makes so much more sense now :D

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@wevh.2903 oh no, so you are telling me that the fastest class in the game cant deal with builds specifically designed to bunker on a node?what a tragedy.you said thief has NO WINNING 1v1 which is a straight up lie.

When u say something CANT take a 1v1 means it cant take 1v1 vs sidenoders or duelers wich are supposed to 1v1 in some scenenarios , it is a obvious thing something that something tjat is not mean to 1v1 dont 1v1 otherwise thats a bad rotation = lose xd , so winning 1v1 againt something that doenst 1v1 like sup tempest is obviosly ignered when ur talking about 1v1ing . Not all duelers are bunker sidenoders , holo is a roamer/dueler so it can take 1v1 .

Also ur statement is equal of saying thief can teamfight cuz the class can take a 3v3 vs two mesmers and one ranger XDDD extremely ridiculous

Not a teagedy is called pvp balanced

ah, you are one of those thiefs that think its bad in teamfights. Everything you said makes so much more sense now :D

Yes thief so good at team fight 3v3 seasson was full of thieves at top tier

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wevh.2903 yes, 3v3 in conquest and 3v3 maps are the same.After all both sides are forced to fight to their last breath in an enclosed space, they are not allowed to escape, or rotate.

[Oakendale.2849]

One day in the distance future people will realize nerfs benefit no one and in time cause player loss.

Whenever something is viable and or strong this community wants to tear is apart and they wonder why balance is so horrid in this game.

Certain classes have been and always will be strong in certain game modes and other classes strong in other game modes.

When we finally realize not all classes and specs are viable for conquest then maybe we can start getting closer to actual balance instead of the continued nerf cycles to break classes which then indirectly makes other classes op.

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@wevh.2903 yes, 3v3 in conquest and 3v3 maps are the same.After all both sides are forced to fight to their last breath in an enclosed space, they are not allowed to escape, or rotate.

If u take a 3v3 with a thief u lose in conquest in 3v3 and in all scenarios , other thing is thief rorates to make the fight 3v4 trying to spike someone without cd rupting a big cd like health , wich is a prety interesting role .

Plz mesmer main try to learn how pvp works firt :)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Peeks head in threadI heard the sound of goalposts moving. Are we still doing... motions to thread All of this?

Just in case, if you're going to @ me:

• Thief has the edge on mesmer in conquest. I think mesmer needs -some- buffs, but not to anything close to the extent that gave them their overwhelming presence before their more current gutting.
• Thief is -NOT- good for Deathmatch and is one of the weakest classes for 3v3 or 2v2. You will see very little thief play in the mini seasons.
• Thief should not be INNATELY good at 1v1 (because then it would be broken) but should be allowed to spec for 1v1 at the expense of some/most of its mobility. The more mobility it has, the less presence it should have in a fight (This is why DE should not be allowed to 1v1)

@wevh.2903 said:U cant 1v1 a thief?

I play thief. I don't think this will have the effect you want.

[KrHome.1920]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

• Thief should not be INNATELY good at 1v1 (because then it would be broken) but should be allowed to spec for 1v1 at the expense of some/most of its mobility. The more mobility it has, the less presence it should have in a fight (This is why DE should not be allowed to 1v1)And this is possible. You can run a DA, CS, X or even CS, Tr, X build with offensive utility skills except shadowstep and dagger storm. So you have one 100% escape skill (shadowstep + SB5) and one invuln skill then and deal a ton of damage and are a threat in 1v1. The tradeoff is that you can only run away every 50 seconds.

For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

• Thief should not be INNATELY good at 1v1 (because then it would be broken) but should be allowed to spec for 1v1 at the expense of some/most of its mobility. The more mobility it has, the less presence it should have in a fight (This is why DE should not be allowed to 1v1)And this is possible. You can run a DA, CS, X or even CS, Tr, X build with offensive utility skills except shadowstep and dagger storm. So you have one 100% escape skill (shadowstep + SB5) and one invuln skill then and deal a ton of damage and are a threat in 1v1. The tradeoff is that you can only run away every 50 seconds.

For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

U build ur full power teef sans the mobility and try and 1v1 most classes and show us a vid of how that works out for u. I regularly play cs power builds and the burst u do is still matching and sometimes lower than ur opponent while their class is designed for far more in fight sustain be it how their defensive skills work or their innate higher hp. U will lose most 1v1's unless u way out play ur opponent, even then sometimes it won't be enough.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"KrHome.1920" said:For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

I think it's less this and more "If a thief does this and is hit by almost any skill half of its HP bar will magically disappear." Having limited escapes is fine, but all the damage in the world means very little if someone can sneeze on you and knock you over. Building to give up some of that omegadamage for sustain often results in wet noodling, however. Neither extreme is enjoyable. Another look needs to be taken at what duelist should look like for thief, if devs actually want that option on the table.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

I think it's less this and more "If a thief does this and is hit by almost any skill half of its HP bar will magically disappear." Having limited escapes is fine, but all the damage in the world means very little if someone can sneeze on you and knock you over. Building to give up some of that omegadamage for sustain often results in wet noodling, however. Neither extreme is enjoyable. Another look needs to be taken at what duelist should look like for thief, if devs actually want that option on the table.

This^ on top of thiefs Lower hp it's not designed like other classes to be able to use their defensive weapon skills and utilities to stay in a fight for long periods, add that other classes burst as hard as teef and can't stay in the fight longer due to their design to add more damage and the thief is at a huge disadvantage.When u start hearing some of the top thieves saying their having trouble even doing enough damage when +1'ing for their teamates what hope would they have in a 1v1 lol.

[KrHome.1920]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

I think it's less this and more "If a thief does this and is hit by almost any skill half of its HP bar will magically disappear." Having limited escapes is fine, but all the damage in the world means very little if someone can sneeze on you and knock you over. Building to give up some of that omegadamage for sustain often results in wet noodling, however. Neither extreme is enjoyable. Another look needs to be taken at what duelist should look like for thief, if devs actually want that option on the table.

This^ on top of thiefs Lower hp it's not designed like other classes to be able to use their defensive weapon skills and utilities to stay in a fight for long periods, add that other classes burst as hard as teef and can't stay in the fight longer due to their design to add more damage and the thief is at a huge disadvantage.When u start hearing some of the top thieves saying their having trouble even doing enough damage when +1'ing for their teamates what hope would they have in a 1v1 lol.Every single thief weapon has

• an evasion skill or
• a leap or
• a teleport or
• a self-stealth or
• even several of the named at once

You can get away with offensive traits and offensive utility skills.

I think you are confusing

• "can stand in aoe for some time" (difficult for thief) with
• "fight presence" (not so difficult, just no meta build uses the tools the class definitely has).

I've played thief for 3000 hours. You can build for any purpose. My personal problem with the class is that it's either weak in damage but unkillable (boring) or one-dimensional (also boring as you are basically using 4 or 5 skills during the whole fight). That's why my thief playtime dropped hard. It feels always dumb and misplaced in the general fight mechanic. Both elite specs did even make it worse.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

I think it's less this and more "If a thief does this and is hit by almost any skill half of its HP bar will magically disappear." Having limited escapes is fine, but all the damage in the world means very little if someone can sneeze on you and knock you over. Building to give up some of that omegadamage for sustain often results in wet noodling, however. Neither extreme is enjoyable. Another look needs to be taken at what duelist should look like for thief, if devs actually want that option on the table.

This^ on top of thiefs Lower hp it's not designed like other classes to be able to use their defensive weapon skills and utilities to stay in a fight for long periods, add that other classes burst as hard as teef and can't stay in the fight longer due to their design to add more damage and the thief is at a huge disadvantage.When u start hearing some of the top thieves saying their having trouble even doing enough damage when +1'ing for their teamates what hope would they have in a 1v1 lol.Every single thief weapon has

• an evasion skill or
• a leap or
• a teleport or
• a self-stealth or
• even several of the named at once

You can get away with offensive traits and offensive utility skills.

I think you are confusing

• "can stand in aoe for some time" (difficult for thief) with
• "fight presence" (not so difficult, just no meta build uses the tools the class definitely has).

I've played thief for 3000 hours. You can build for any purpose. My personal problem with the class is that it's either weak in damage but unkillable (boring) or one-dimensional (also boring as you are basically using 4 or 5 skills during the whole fight). That's why my thief playtime dropped hard. It feels always dumb and misplaced in the general fight mechanic. Both elite specs did even make it worse.

U dont get it. All those weapon skills and utilities due to thiefs design are meant to avoid damage which can only be done realistically for so long especially in a game like gw2. Why do think their +1 and not great 1v1 class? Other classes have those same damage avoidance skills and blocks attached to most weapon sets, have utilities not lending them to disengage but to stay sustained in a fight unlike thief. Seriously people are so biased I this community I swear its probably what drives a lot of players away, it's so obvious

[Bazsi.2734]

I might just start necroing threads aswell. Seems unproductive but fun!

[Shiyo.3578]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying fly.

Whenever I kill a thief I go "oh, he's dead?". I never actually secure a kill, they have to have a seizure at their keyboard to die.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Infiltrators strike REALLY needs to be nerfed. It makes s/d thief the best 1v1er in WvW and no build can do ANYTHING vs it. You feel completely helpless - it's why nearly every roamer is a thief and people who make roaming videos never have clips vs thieves.

I rarely post videos of fights against thief because it looks as bad as it feels. Basically, if a thief dies you got lucky. How else can you look at a class that can disengage at will and only gives a fraction of a second to fight back at any point in the fight?

If thief disengages u got the point equal u won the fight , thats the big differente between wvw and pvp balance

Not everything is about winning or losing. Against thief I win some and I lose some. It depends a lot on the build and there are thief builds (thankfully not many that are widely used!) that hard counter mine. That's not the issue. The issue is the combat neither looks nor feels good. The thief can't stand for a second at melee range, but can port and/or stealth endlessly. A win tends to feel like it happened by accident and, in fact, against thieves with heavy stealth they often just appear downed out of nowhere! Oops! How did that happen? I guess you zigged when you shoulda zagged, huh?

I just feel it's not the greatest design. I like the bursty stealth openers and the evades and blinds, but the endless disengages with stealth and ports are just gross. I would have preferred they beef thief up a bit and make them a little more punishable. Right now it just feels like you win the lottery on whether or not you sneeze in the right direction to kill the annoying fly.

Whenever I kill a thief I go "oh, he's dead?". I never actually secure a kill, they have to have a seizure at their keyboard to die.

Pretty much. I just randomly come across them, usually somewhere 1200+ range away when they come out of stealth after dying to a condition tick. Oh, good! I won!

[Leonidrex.5649]

for tif to die they have to overextend as fuck, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.