Firebrand still braindead, can I have my confusion back?

[Shao.7236]

Yeah you read it right, we still dealing with this mistake of game design. Outright delete it from PvP until it's figured out, people are abusing the ease of that profession like a game exploit for free wins, it's NOT fun to fight, there's nothing good about it, takes half an hour to go through all the utilities and there's yet another reset after to go through each player that plays it.

Jesus, force them to use their tome skills, make pages universal in between tomes on a shared cooldown, just anything but so much freedom to do all those EZ shenanigans that carry the player. It's been going for 3 years now, it's enough, it's not hard to figure out.

There's nothing that keeps a good one in check now, there's little counter to none. It's awfully TOXIC to play against, even more in duos.

Edit: FOR CONTEXT "Confusion has been removed from various revenant skills as they didn't really have any meaningful ways to take advantage of it." No, that kept faceroll builds like Firebrand spam in check since they aren't power crept enough already.

[Halikus.1406]

Anet deleting firebrand would be a dream come true.

[mrauls.6519]

Firebrand is off the hook. Anet what are you doing???

[Genesis.5169]

You guys wont stop till everything but your class is unplayable..

[ollbirtan.2915]

All the mirage mains and their tears....

[Shao.7236]

@Genesis.5169 said:You guys wont stop till everything but your class is unplayable..It's an objective fact that Firebrand is overtuned and without a tradeoff since the start. People been abusing it since. My class would EAT firebrands before this patch, I don't need to be told any assumptions from you.

@ollbirtan.2915 said:All the mirage mains and their tears....I'm a condition revenant, not mirage. Thanks.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Ummm... where was that Firebrand nerf?

[otto.5684]

Unrelated to FB, condi rev is stronger now and it relatively counters FB.

As for FB, no surprise here. FB is most susceptible to power burst damage. Guess what was removed from spvp? It is a condi/bunker meta. This is FB domain.

[Shao.7236]

@otto.5684 said:Unrelated to FB, condi rev is stronger now and it relatively counters FB.

As for FB, no surprise here. FB is most susceptible to power burst damage. Guess what was removed from spvp? It is a condi/bunker meta. This is FB domain.

No, condi rev is weaker and anyone that is paired with a FB Symbol braindead spam is being carried by the dev mistakes.

[Catchyfx.5768]

If we look at the stats Guard is most played class, next to Warrior and Ranger, so maybe thats the reason they had nice things? Not suprised. FB will always be top class. If Everyone will play CoreEngi, they make it OP aswell.

FB is the only problem WvW ever had. Not Scourge. Time to move to another game :disappointed:

Rev main here

[Sanity Obscure.6054]

Duo FBs are a lulfest.

Good luck getting close enough to take 'em down.

[felix.2386]

FB core mechanics is overtuned, not the stats tbhhow is three tunes with 15 skills that include offense, support, defense thats all aoe based ever a good idea?they need to start making the skills FB self based for a change

[Thorstienn.1642]

@"lighter.2708" said:FB core mechanics is overtuned, not the stats tbhhow is three tunes with 15 skills that include offense, support, defense thats all aoe based ever a good idea?they need to start making the skills FB self based for a change

I think you nailed the real problem on the head: not the part about 15 skills of offense etc, I mean, Ele says hi! But it's all AoE!

[ZDragon.3046]

Firebrand is still insanely strong to be honest i think most people agree on this...Those tomes really do need a shared cooldown OR something im so tired of fighting them and them popping 3 tomes back to back then getting the free reset with renewed focus and doing it again while also having good hybrid dps like what?

[ZDragon.3046]

@otto.5684 said:Unrelated to FB, condi rev is stronger now and it relatively counters FB.

As for FB, no surprise here. FB is most susceptible to power burst damage. Guess what was removed from spvp? It is a condi/bunker meta. This is FB domain.

I dont think this is factual there has not been enough time yet to deduce that condi rev is stronger than it was and no one can accurately say that because lets be honest condi rev was a rarity before the patch. There were not enough condi rev players (unless you mained it) to really say if its stronger or weaker. But without a doubt there are enough FB users that people without a doubt can say it still pretty over tuned.

Core guardian is one of the strongest and most balanced professions in the game only when firebrand is ontop is it busted to heck. Even before the nerfs to power damage firebrand was a problem that needed to be addressed people even said it was not nerfed enough in the patch preview notes lets not act like its a problem as of this patch. Truth is it probably needs a bit more restriction on its tomes and mantras in pvp.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Maybe remove weapons as a tradeoff ?

[otto.5684]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@otto.5684 said:Unrelated to FB, condi rev is stronger now and it relatively counters FB.

As for FB, no surprise here. FB is most susceptible to power burst damage. Guess what was removed from spvp? It is a condi/bunker meta. This is FB domain.

I dont think this is factual there has not been enough time yet to deduce that condi rev is stronger than it was and no one can accurately say that because lets be honest condi rev was a rarity before the patch. There were not enough condi rev players (unless you mained it) to really say if its stronger or weaker. But without a doubt there are enough FB users that people without a doubt can say it still pretty over tuned.

Core guardian is one of the strongest and most balanced professions in the game only when firebrand is ontop is it busted to heck. Even before the nerfs to power damage firebrand was a problem that needed to be addressed people even said it was not nerfed enough in the patch preview notes lets not act like its a problem as of this patch. Truth is it probably needs a bit more restriction on its tomes and mantras in pvp.

It is true, it is a bit too early to conclude. However, from my experience from playing 8-9 sPvP games I and others best performed using bunker/condi builds. FBs, condi rev and core necro stood out, with FB being the most busted. The overall nerf to sustain was lower than decrease in power builds. The funny thing, condi rev gained sustain due to a new trait that heals you for a bit over 200 while you have resistance, every sec. Resistance also gives 20% power damage reduction, and it has decent access to protection. And I did a couple of 1v2 and 1v1, you can sit there on the point for a while. It lost on damage, this patch, but everyone did, and relatively it is a minor nerf.

[ZDragon.3046]

@otto.5684 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@otto.5684 said:Unrelated to FB, condi rev is stronger now and it relatively counters FB.

As for FB, no surprise here. FB is most susceptible to power burst damage. Guess what was removed from spvp? It is a condi/bunker meta. This is FB domain.

I dont think this is factual there has not been enough time yet to deduce that condi rev is stronger than it was and no one can accurately say that because lets be honest condi rev was a rarity before the patch. There were not enough condi rev players (unless you mained it) to really say if its stronger or weaker. But without a doubt there are enough FB users that people without a doubt can say it still pretty over tuned.

Core guardian is one of the strongest and most balanced professions in the game only when firebrand is ontop is it busted to heck. Even before the nerfs to power damage firebrand was a problem that needed to be addressed people even said it was not nerfed enough in the patch preview notes lets not act like its a problem as of this patch. Truth is it probably needs a bit more restriction on its tomes and mantras in pvp.

It is true, it is a bit too early to conclude. However, from my experience from playing 8-9 sPvP games I and others best performed using bunker/condi builds. FBs, condi rev and core necro stood out, with FB being the most busted. The overall nerf to sustain was lower than decrease in power builds. The funny thing, condi rev gained sustain due to a new trait that heals you for a bit over 200 while you have resistance, every sec. Resistance also gives 20% power damage reduction, and it has decent access to protection. And I did a couple of 1v2 and 1v1, you can sit there on the point for a while. It lost on damage, this patch, but everyone did, and relatively it is a minor nerf.

To be honest bunker builds right now are busted no matter what profession you play them on. I even saw a few druids and rangers using the rune that applies barrier for a percentage of healing and they were like REALLY REALLY DURABLE. I think some and i say this very lightly SOME! power damage can afford to come back but we should 100% get out of the everything needs to one shot to kill meta that the game was before. I HATED THAT with a passion.

Rev getting damage reduction from resistance was already a thing though people didnt use it cause once again condi mallyx rev was a rarity. This trait was not new by any means. I mean you can consider it new if you want because people are playing mallyx rev now. But to be honest its good that people are having to invest in sustain vs before where rev didnt have to because it more or less had it for free in its full damage builds.

Necro performs better in a low damage meta in general on all accounts because its design is built around soaking hits and not avoiding them. Even if you run a glass build on necro you will perform better in this meta than the previous one where damage soaking means losing all your shroud before you can get your skills off or get in range of your target or just losing all your hp because 2 base dodges no vigor, blocks, evades etc. Expect necros to be stronger in general its not the necro that got buffed really its that everyone else got brought down closer to it level (it was already underperforming in the previous meta and mostly depended on boon corrupts to win ((which is cheesy if you ask me)) Now that everyone else no longer does leathal levels of damage while keeping their sustain it just works better in general its design shines brighter.

That said i think anet made the game slightly more bunker than intended and hope to see them make some adjustments soon. I would personally love traits that act as bunker killers but have near zero or completely zero benefit when fighting against other semi glass or glass foes which anet has really yet to play on.

Firebrand though just honestly was not addressed in this patch and they said they would keep their eyes out for outlandish things i expect them to have their eyes on it and a few things in necros kit to. Im a necro main and i totally see some nerfs in the future as expected lol i just hope they dont think they need to make necro as easy to kill as professions with evades and blocks when it does not have those things.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

they nerfed the hell out of fb tomes, so its not tomes.

[Rickster.8752]

@otto.5684 said:Unrelated to FB, condi rev is stronger now and it relatively counters FB.

As for FB, no surprise here. FB is most susceptible to power burst damage. Guess what was removed from spvp? It is a condi/bunker meta. This is FB domain.

There is still a ton of power damage. It is still very good. There is just less boon strip which means guardian in general is busted. Also stab/aegis are better now because the stuns are longer and everyone's stun breaks got nerfed. Basically guardian the biggest unintentional winner from this patch across the board.

[otto.5684]

@Rickster.8752 In all the games I played, only thief was able to do any effective power damage. And even then, was completely overshadowed by bunker builds.

@ZDragon.3046 I disagree. Pre this patch, power damage was in line, for most builds. Only DD thief needed a slight nerf. And remove might stacking beyond 5-10 stacks. The nerf to power damage was unwarranted, unnecessary and completely destroyed the sPvP pacing. TTK now is way too high, and the game overall is pandering to lowest denominator, since it is very easy to overcome mistakes, cuz sustain has been nerfed much less than power damage. With condi spam being the name of the game.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@otto.5684 said:@Rickster.8752 In all the games I played, only thief was able to do any effective power damage. And even then, was completely overshadowed by bunker builds.

@ZDragon.3046 I disagree. Pre this patch, power damage was in line, for most builds. Only DD thief needed a slight nerf. And remove might stacking beyond 5-10 stacks. The nerf to power damage was unwarranted, unnecessary and completely destroyed the sPvP pacing. TTK now is way too high, and the game overall is pandering to lowest denominator, since it is very easy to overcome mistakes, cuz sustain has been nerfed much less than power damage. With condi spam being the name of the game.

A LOT more than DD teef needed nerfing.

Spin to Win Zerk, Staff DD, Backstab DE, one shot mesmer, Power Shiro (my main), and lots more.

They clearly didn't consider condi enough and we are very bunker heavy, but them going too far in the other direction doesn't mean things didn't need nerfed.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:Maybe remove weapons as a tradeoff ?

yes - remove weapons , armor - let's just have fist fights in loincloth, ye?

[ZDragon.3046]

@otto.5684 said:@Rickster.8752 In all the games I played, only thief was able to do any effective power damage. And even then, was completely overshadowed by bunker builds.

@"ZDragon.3046" I disagree. Pre this patch, power damage was in line, for most builds. Only DD thief needed a slight nerf. And remove might stacking beyond 5-10 stacks. The nerf to power damage was unwarranted, unnecessary and completely destroyed the sPvP pacing. TTK now is way too high, and the game overall is pandering to lowest denominator, since it is very easy to overcome mistakes, cuz sustain has been nerfed much less than power damage. With condi spam being the name of the game.

We will will just not agree on this topic then.IF you think only DD needed a nerf then i consider you insane (no offense) Herald Rev was far more busted than DD was, Firebrand was far most busted than DD was, even weaver was more busted imo than DD was. Even warrior imo was more busted it had more damage and almost evaded just as much the only difference was having less mobility. The game needed some major changes not just with boons but with core standards on what should and should not be in competitive modes. How cc's should work, setting a standard damage value modifier for everyone to use etc. All this was needed. Did anet go to far with some professions.. of course i wont argue that but overall the game in general needed much more than what you are suggesting it only needed.

IF the meta revolves around TTK being less than 5s for 70% or more of meta builds then thats way too fast.The name of the game was turning into "kill quick or be killed" and not every professions design can support this equally some of them thematically could not support it at all which made a big imbalance from one profession to the next.

IF you couldnt kill quick then you needed perma stealth, perma boon, or mass evade chains with invulns. The game was beyond stale for what most meta builds were and this whole shake up was 100% needed. They can go back and add more damage to shift us slightly farther out of the bunker meta in the next few patches but forget going back to what the game was last patch. I dont want that just as much as i dont want HoT bunker.

[Kuma.1503]

My only issue with firebrand is that they're a jack of all trades master of all trades. It's true in PvE as well as PvP.

They're a meta Condi dps spec, Boon support, hybrid boon support, healer, and even tank. They're so good at what they do that they crowd out other options.

Anet should figure out an identity for the class and push them towards that identity. if they want firebrand to be a class where you can mold it to fit any role, it should have to give up something else to fill that roll. Adding the "This class can only weapon swap while out of combat" restriction will go a long way to help with that.