Take a look at pets please.

[Eurantien.4632]

PSA, @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" is right. With sic em, remorseless, maul, and a target with no toughness, the tiger can do this much. Fortunately the tiger is super squishy so it's really killable - like if you LoS and just kill the pet thats a viable strat.

In addition, to get this damage, the ranger must trait into Marksmanship a pure dps line, Beasmastery... more or less a dps line, and slot a dps utility ONLY useful for this burst. This is a burst that is the addition of having fury on the pet (which can be given from pet swapping to the pet), maul, F2 and Sic 'em. So, F4, 2, F2, Utility. The tell is quite significant, ranger in GS, ranger might use hilt bash first, ranger is using maul, there is a tiger crouching ready to jump at you (this is a large animation), you've been revealed, and the ranger shouts "SIC EM". This burst has been around for awhile and has not been used widely? Why? Read this paragraph again. Why else? you miss this burst the pet is useless. It has no utility. Felines and birds are PURE DAMAGE pets. You will not see this on soulbeast. Why? these pets offer no utility when out and only birds offer utility when merged. Also, other things were just straight stronger. Now? maybe it is tiger's time to shine.

Given that. I am currently undecided on if this warrants a nerf or not, until its tested further.

Edit: for every tiger F2 that lands there are 8 that dont land.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:I have to agree that if a person is being hit with 12k+ Pounce, they deserve it.

Pounce has a coefficient of 4.168 (woah), Tiger has 1524 power baseline. Assuming pvp greatsword uses exotic weapon strength, the midpoint is 1047.5.Pack Alpha gives pet 150 (1674 in total) power and 150 ferocity while Pet's Prowess gives it 300 ferocity (woah). This ferocity totals out at 180% more damage.Assuming 0 might,

A tiger with Attack of Opportunity uses Pounce on a light armor 0 toughness target for ((1047.5

4.168

1674)/1920)

1.8

1.5 = 10278 damage.If you are over 90% health, your pet deal 10% more damage from Loud Whistle so the damage is 10278 * 1.1 = 11306.This isn't aligning stars, you just need to be running beastmastery and do maul + pounce (excluding maul damage).

Assuming it hits light armor target with 500 toughness: 8154 damage (8970 while ranger is over 90% health).

I didn't take any might or other damage modifiers in account.

Pet coefficients should be lowered by like 50% AT LEAST, considering most of the pet attacks are like Chilling Slash (2.75 per attack x 2) or Tail Swipe (3.75).

I wasn't saying that it was impossible to land the numbers. I was saying that I was unable to replicate it during play because it isn't practical to do.

I could wind up a huge Condi Engi Inc Ammo burst on a golem that looks super OP, but is it practical in a real match? I could dish out huge damage on a golem with a Staff Ele, but is it practical to use in a real match? I could post screen shots of a 12k Tiger Pounce, but how often do I ever get hit by a 12k Tiger Pounce or an 11k or a 10k or even a 9k? More realistically you're looking at 8k as a high Tiger Pounce, 6k-7k if the person aligns the gimmick right, and 3ks & 4ks rolling out of the average Joe's Tiger Pounce.

Suggest w/e you want man. I just want to make sure people are making suggestions while considering the realities behind something such as the screen shot of a 12k Tiger Pounce. People shouldn't be giving input on such a subject if they are thinking: "Oh man Tigers deal 12k F2s every use" because this is not the case at all.

Tbh I grow tired of Ranger threads posting "When the stars align" kind of screen shots to advocate nerfing in the wrong places. Maybe what needs to be happening is attention thrown at those marks modifiers, and not every other thing in the Ranger's repertoire.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Yeah pets are doing PvE damage. I'm seeing some very degenerate low-skill monkey builds where the ranger just builds full defense/evades while the pet does the work for them. One of the many things that will need a look.

[ZhouX.8742]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:If you're gonna boast big damage numbers you need to state exactly how it happened.

If I go full glass (beastmaster, marksmanship) to buff my pets damage. Throw on 15 stacks of vuln, buff my tiger or my bird F2 for +115% damage. I'm still not hitting these numbers.

If I cant hit these numbers in the mists, how am I supposed to hit them in game?

If someone isn't dodging 25 might stacked, 25 vuln, sic em, attack of opportunity, remorseless tiger F2. They deserve this much damage.

Yeah, when I saw this thread, I immediately went to replicate the numbers on Tiger, and I actually wasn't able to do it, even with a gimmick build designed to do so, that would completely suck in an actual match.

So I don't know if someone is trolling for nerf propaganda or what, maybe these screenshots were taken pre-patch a long time ago or while a couple of people were standing there buffing the Ranger pet or something, but I have to agree that if a person is being hit with 12k+ Pounce, they deserve it.

because its called inflated numbers, people do this shit all the time with all classes to justify getting stomped

ranger is actually just alright, it's not over performing and it's not under performing

major offenders at the moment are: LF generation on necro it's busted, condi rev (wait until it's popular) and FB sustain

everything else is somewhat in a decent spot and might need shaves or even buffs, but MAJOR offenders are those 3 and need some quick fixes since dmg has gone down across the board

[Tayga.3192]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:because it isn't practical to do.It's 2 into f2

realistically you're looking at 8k as a high Tiger Pounce, 6k-7k if the person aligns the gimmick right, and 3ks & 4ks rolling out of the average Joe's Tiger Pounce.**If they reduce coefficients by 50% you will still see 4k as "high tiger bounce" xD

"When the stars align" kind of screen shotsIt's... Maul into Pounce. I don't see how it is aligning stars.

Maybe what needs to be happening is attention thrown at those marks modifiers, and not every other thing in the Ranger's repertoire.So you want beastmastery minors to be nerfed?

Also,

maybe these screenshots were taken pre-patch a long time ago or while a couple of people were standing there buffing the Ranger pet or somethingYou shouldn't call people liars especially when evidence supports their claims.

[Teratus.2859]

@Skotlex.7580 said:Generally speaking, there have been complains in these forums for years about how useless pets are, not really because of their raw damage, but because of how easy it is to kite them and get their AI stuck when using terrain to your advantage.

I say, ANet probably is gathering numbers, and will be able to tell if pets are that over performing.

Giving high damage to compensate for poor AI is probably not the optimal solution, but it's probably the easiest way to go? >_>

That's a fair point.

Many Pets do become pretty useless against human players if said player knows how to exploit it's poor AI.Not to mention knowing the animations to watch for.

At least they're useful in PvE, aggro tanking alone makes a massive difference in combat.

[Shagie.7612]

dumpster pet damage, nobody wants to get their ankles chewed off by AI in a pvp game. it doesn't matter very much if it's killable or anything, if it chases people around, hurts, and can randomly skill you with a CC, nobody's gonna be happy.allow the ranger to select when the pet uses its special skills, particularly the CC and current active skills.adjust the damage coming out of the ranger in exchange for pets doing very little damage.

wow learned this with bm hunters like 13 years ago (though they've repeated the mistake a billion times ever since lol)if pets are going to be a thing, they function best as a tool through which the controller executes skills, not some dumb set-and-forget face eating monster.it's the same reason why they just do basic attacks in gw1 unless commanded to do more.

[anduriell.6280]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:If you're gonna boast big damage numbers you need to state exactly how it happened.

If I go full glass (beastmaster, marksmanship) to buff my pets damage. Throw on 15 stacks of vuln, buff my tiger or my bird F2 for +115% damage. I'm still not hitting these numbers.

If I cant hit these numbers in the mists, how am I supposed to hit them in game?

If someone isn't dodging 25 might stacked, 25 vuln, sic em, attack of opportunity, remorseless tiger F2. They deserve this much damage.

Yeah, when I saw this thread, I immediately went to replicate the numbers on Tiger, and I actually wasn't able to do it, even with a gimmick build designed to do so, that would completely suck in an actual match.

So I don't know if someone is trolling for nerf propaganda or what, maybe these screenshots were taken pre-patch a long time ago or while a couple of people were standing there buffing the Ranger pet or something, but I have to agree that if a person is being hit with 12k+ Pounce, they deserve it.

This skill is busted and you can easily replicate the damage in Core ranger:MS-BMMaul + Sic'em + Furious Pounce = 12K

Really pets need to have checked the F2 damage. Before it wasn't an issue because we had skills like AoE Slicer in Arc (Arc Divider) which did 27K so it wasn't out of place.

Other professions also had their damage busted like 5K fireball autos from eles.

[Tayga.3192]

@Madisonlee.9641 said:Wah wah I took 12k damage wah wah wahBring back condi mirage, if it's skilled to press 2 into f2, it's also skilled to press dodge into 1.

[storm.3120]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:because it isn't practical to do.It's 2 into f2

realistically you're looking at 8k as a high Tiger Pounce, 6k-7k if the person aligns the gimmick right, and 3ks & 4ks rolling out of the average Joe's Tiger Pounce.**If they reduce coefficients by 50% you will still see 4k as "high tiger bounce" xD

"When the stars align" kind of screen shotsIt's... Maul into Pounce. I don't see how it is aligning stars.

Maybe what needs to be happening is attention thrown at those marks modifiers, and not every other thing in the Ranger's repertoire.So you want beastmastery minors to be nerfed?

Also,

maybe these screenshots were taken pre-patch a long time ago or while a couple of people were standing there buffing the Ranger pet or somethingYou shouldn't call people liars especially when evidence supports their claims.Seems like a normal defensive reaction - just accuse everyone being a liar, ez.Pets randomly slamming me for 50% health on a heavy class (and that was some weird condi evade spamming SB/sword.dagger lol) when literally every player hit like a wet noodle...

@Trevor Boyer.6524Anyone defending this stuff

is either (A

) Clutching hard to maintain class dominance,

or (B) Hasn't yet figured out the good builds

.Fit like a glove.

[Madisonlee.9641]

Re-posting the majority of my OP since it got deleted for apparently being too mean to someone....lol I don't know why I play this game honestly XD Filled with too many sensitive carebear PvEers.

For those crying about this, as others have said: pet's have ALWAYS done that much damage, you are just noticing it because of the number of rangers who run core now to fully utilize it.

So let me do you a favor and tell you how to completely nullify the people who run this build: They are CORE. They CANNOT raise their pet by merging (SlB). They run BIRDS and CATS (pets that die instantly).

Take two seconds out of your day to permanently down their pets and you have successfully nullified the build.

Wah wah I took 12k damage wah wah wah. Go play pve, my god. T_T The people who want bunker meta make me sick.

The one exception to this is Deer, because it hits just as hard but is a lot tankier for some reason. But deer's AI is so borked that he only lands things randomly, which is probably why you are seeing the switch to Cats and Birds among core players. Just make deer equally squishy, fix it's AI, and it's fine.

The only way I can see a valid complaint about this build is if someone runs a SlB variant and just repeatedly resses the tiger ( I probably shouldn't be giving them ideas lol). Then it could be an issue, but most ppl are running core.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:I know how to fight the build and regularly kitten on it.

I just call out low skill monkey nonsense for what it is. Or are you seriously trying to claim that running away while AI plays the game for you is skillful play?

You would not be calling it out if you hadn't been wrecked by one at some point.

Regardless, I AGREE with you about this build. I never said it was skillful play, I implied that it was garbage, because it IS garbage, and that is why I don't play one. I'm also implying that people who get their butts handed to them on a regular basis by this build (not just a lucky PET SURPRISE LAWL 12k, b/c any zerker class can surprise kill) need to seriously question if they should be PvPing.

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Madisonlee.9641 said:Wah wah I took 12k damage wah wah wahBring back condi mirage, if it's skilled to press 2 into f2, it's also skilled to press dodge into 1.

Sorry if my point wasn't clear: the build is a meme that can be shut down in seconds, yes it's relatively skill-less, but it's also borderline useless against competent players. So why the heck are people complaining about it? It LITERALLY takes 2 seconds to incapacitate like 50-90% of their damage.

Do I want it nerfed? Absolutely not. Memes are funny and make the game interesting. Only bad players get killed consistently by memes, which is why you don't often see them in ranked.

I swear to god all of you carebears want to bring the HoT Bunker meta back where literally no one ever died.

[Eurantien.4632]

Cant wait to see you guys running tiger in anything larger than a 1v1 and having it get completely insta nuked once it comes out. Thing can insta die in 2v2 deathmatch, wait till conquest is back.

This skill is not easy to land, requires 2 traitlines, a utility, and a weapon skill, can be kited, blinded, blocked, CC'd. It might be a problem once firebrand is nerfed but for now, despite possibly being core rangers best option, it feels unviable to me vs competent players.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Revolution.5409 said:Is Tiger the new gazelle? LOL

Some one needs to make a pvp pk vid with eye the tiger song then :p

[Revolution.5409]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Is Tiger the new gazelle? LOL

Some one needs to make a pvp pk vid with eye the tiger song then :p

would be great xD

[Aeolus.3615]

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Is Tiger the new gazelle? LOL

Some one needs to make a pvp pk vid with eye the tiger song then :p

would be great xD

That pet damage not even a full zerker class can reach xD