Can we talk about Lich Form in 2v2s?

[Ostricheggs.3742]

Ignoring the efficacy of core necros in general, Lich is just broken in 2v2s. Its duration of TWENTY seconds is just insane and its counters are slim. Most non-bunky classes can eat 6 autos max. You blow two dodges and whatever else and you're still going to have at least 10 seconds of lich up. It's a damn miracle if you're a focus target and survive it. You could make the same argument about rampage, but at half the duration you can mostly handle it.

If I can offer a suggestion I'd tone down the more powerful elites in 2v2s, if that is at all possible. Worst case, just lock them.

[Rickster.8752]

They aren't balancing for 2v2 which makes it stupid to have only 2v2 as ranked after a massive balance patch.

So they get no actual feedback on balance. Disaster development.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

As the other poster said, they are not balancing for 2v2s. The sooner everyone realizes this the better. All balance feedback should address 5v5 conquest only

[Ostricheggs.3742]

This is such an incredibly easy fix. I don't see why they can't. Don't allow lich in 2v2s. It'll make the game mode a whole lot more fun

[ellesee.8297]

games without lich or firebrands are much more fun.

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

Lich form should be shorter, like 33% from its current duration. Warriors Rampage is similar and should be also shorter - you use elite with just enough time to use all 5 spells. Spaming 1111 with elite is toxic.

[Shao.7236]

You can say they don't balance around 2v2 but that doesn't change the fact the skills are busted regardless and need attention.

So much has gone under the radar and it shows.

[Eurantien.4632]

Didn't you guys learn how to deal with lich in like 2013? It lasts kinda long... but its def got some counters

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Didn't you guys learn how to deal with lich in like 2013? It lasts kinda long... but its def got some counters

Edit: I had a rebuttal ready, but the North Korean authorities are watching, so here’s this:

Didn’t your momma teach you “if you got nothing constructive to say, you should say nothing at all”?

[Zietlogik.6208]

its definitely too powerful in the 2v2 format...but the strange thing is...its pretty much the only elite in the game right now that feels like AN ELITE SKILL, Rampage used to feel the same way, so did Prime Light Beam but now it's nerfed and kinda speaks volumes to how Elites are even designed....currently they are just another utility skill.

[Tom Trinity.1804]

I am a necro main, and I COMPLETELY AGREE that the 1 skill for lich elite skill form needs to have its damage output drastically reduced for pvp, along the same lines as the other power skills in the game (33% or more damage coefficient reduction). It is completely overpowered damage output in pvp, and now that people are realizing this, it is being vastly abused even on builds that normally would choose a different elite skill. The duration only seems to be a problem due to the now improperly scaled damage for the 1 skill in lich form.

[Faux Play.6104]

2013 called. ever hear of MOA?

[Tayga.3192]

Nerf Lich Form damage a lot and reduce the cooldown a bit so that it can be usable in conquest too.

@"Rickster.8752" said:They aren't balancing for 2v2 which makes it stupid to have only 2v2 as ranked after a massive balance patch.

So they get no actual feedback on balance. Disaster development.

We already have a downtime between two conquest seasons, now we won't have any downtime. There is literally no cons of this lol.

Also I love how everyone was like "CONQUEST BAD" and then when 2v2 came out everyone instantly started to love conquest.

[coro.3176]

@Ostricheggs.3742 said:Ignoring the efficacy of core necros in general, Lich is just broken in 2v2s. Its duration of TWENTY seconds is just insane and its counters are slim. Most non-bunky classes can eat 6 autos max. You blow two dodges and whatever else and you're still going to have at least 10 seconds of lich up. It's a kitten miracle if you're a focus target and survive it. You could make the same argument about rampage, but at half the duration you can mostly handle it.

If I can offer a suggestion I'd tone down the more powerful elites in 2v2s, if that is at all possible. Worst case, just lock them.

Lich form needs a hotfix nerf to be 10s in 2v2. It is that game-breaking. The maps are not large enough to kite 20s of lich form that auto-attacks for 5k.

[Zexanima.7851]

It strong and does need its AA coefficient nerfed. That being said you can currently deal with it with; LoS, blind, projectile hate, corrupt stab, chain CC, moa, weakness, stealth and probably a few more I'm missing. It's powerful, maybe a little too much so, but manageable.

[Tycura.1982]

Focus the necro when it pops lich it loses it's signets just like rampage but without damage redux.

[coro.3176]

@Tycura.1982 said:Focus the necro when it pops lich it loses it's signets just like rampage but without damage redux.

You will lose that trade unless you also happen to be a necro in lich form. Their damage + health beats your damage + health. The fact that the damage wasn't reduced is a big deal. You just can't stand toe to toe with 5k+ autoattacks for 20s straight.

[coro.3176]

My strategy for dealing with Lich Form has been:

• dodge the first 2 autoattacks
• swap to toolkit, block the next 2 autoattacks with Gear Shield
• try and immob the necro for a few seconds with glue shot, probably eat a 5k autoattack for my trouble. Attempt a blind with static shot to cause the next auto to miss.
• Rocket Boots x2 the fuck away. Try to get all the way to the opponents' spawn and LoS around a corner. Maybe take a 5k auto in the back while I flee.
• The necro still has about 10s left of Lich. Hope they decide it'll be too much effort to chase me down and focus my teammate instead.

So then if my teammate isn't dead from getting 2v1'd by a lich and whatever else (probably guard), run back to the fight and continue.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

If it comes to it they should just ban transformations in 2 vs 2 alltogether if they arent gonna reduce duration. However lich teams are not unbeatable but I guess it could be easy mode vs a few comps.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Zietlogik.6208 said:its definitely too powerful in the 2v2 format...but the strange thing is...its pretty much the only elite in the game right now that feels like AN ELITE SKILL, Rampage used to feel the same way, so did Prime Light Beam but now it's nerfed and kinda speaks volumes to how Elites are even designed....currently they are just another utility skill.

TBH, I'd rather have another utility slot on my engineer. Mortar kit is the only one I can use in the elite slot.

[choovanski.5462]

a whole thread of people who don't use moa or reflects. what a shame to have a small brain

wonder when the community will realise how good double moa is in 2v2? hint hint it's better than lich

[Tayga.3192]

@choovanski.5462 said:a whole thread of people who don't use moa or reflects. what a shame to have a small brain

wonder when the community will realise how good double moa is in 2v2? hint hint it's better than lich

Moa + Reflect on distort.Too bad it doesn't kill two coordinated liches.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

This season would be great if 80% of the games weren't firebrand and core necro

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:This season would be great if 80% of the games weren't firebrand and core necro

This^ even necro mains prob are getting annoyed at all the people bandwagoning to their class and are hoping the new found popularity doesn't contribute even more to the nerfing of the class lol

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:This season would be great if 80% of the games weren't firebrand and core necro

This^ even necro mains prob are getting annoyed at all the people bandwagoning to their class and are hoping the new found popularity doesn't contribute even more to the nerfing of the class lol

Basically yes. Nerf core and the issue with life force. No need for a reaper nerf.