WvW is amazing now

[CrimsonRise.7650]

@Excursion.9752 said:Fights have been decent. My only complaint is that trying to take a Tier 3 that is being contested feels a bit overwhelming at times. You get a steady stream of bags for a while until they chip you down enough to wipe your group. So the TTK while good in open field situations is fun but a bit annoying in a contested ring. Also the siege damage needs to be toned down vs players along with the dragon banners.

Agreed and also the amount of skill lag in open field or inside objectives, still is not good enough.

[Styles.7469]

@Ragi.7291 said:@Threather.9354completely agree with you that this patch is really good.We can finally have real fights and where the fights are not decided in 10s on who bombs fastest correctly.The skill of the player is really rewarded especially in roaming, to make 1V5 before it was impossible your build carries you, now the skill of the player makes really a huge difference.One of the big thing that I noticed it is the CC, they pass finally!!! with nerf of the stab.And of course nerf of mount which is a very good thing,it would be necessary now to remove damages on skill 1 of mount.

After all isn't perfect, full of traits, skills, weapons are useless anymore and they will have to be reworked very quickly.Some classes don't have any explosiveness anymore.Other classes such as FB is still a big problem in WvW and PvP.And stealth in WvW + sign of the assassin and stealth attack that always one shot, are still a problem.Let's hope there are patches very soon.

@"Cal Cohen.2358"Bravo and good luck for the rest.

I'm honestly trifled by this sentiment in its entirety because it wholly reads to me that you (and players like you) are someone who plays hoping button-mashing will win, because you do not or have not taken the time to figure out how to play in a manner that is efficient or progressive versus players or groups that are striving to perform similarly or better. This is is why I do believe to an extent that exclusivity is healthy for the environment of WvW, because in its most unfortunate fashion there are too many like you infecting WvW with this, "It's too hard make it easier so I can kill them but they can't kill me." mentality.

You and your kind finally got your wish. Pressing 1 is basically the most effective way to play, at 1500+ units, after a few minutes of emote-spamming standoffs while both groups hope the enemy walks into range of their siege. =/

Your idea of "real fights" is so terribly skewed from the reality of how basic, general engagements happen (pre and post patch). You talk about "real fights" where they aren't decided on who bombs...correctly? What are you on about? Firstly, the entire point of coming up with a masterful composition and developing a modicum of skill, individually or as a group, is so you can produce the efficient output of damage, and beat the enemy, in the shortest amount of time. That is a verifiable fact on what drives success in these actual real fights. Clearly you have little-to-no idea on how hard some players and guilds work to develop these strategies and compositions, as indicated by your general premise. The mechanics of the game, after this horrid patch dropped, strictly forbids this from happening in as short amount of time as before, and the skills of the player mean less than they have in ages, but that has not changed the fact that instead of ten seconds, it now takes 25...but you're still trying to achieve the same effect. The extra 15 seconds is waiting to see who will walk into engagement range first.

The skill of a player is even less rewarded now, and I'm not sure what or where your information comes from because, as a previously exclusive solo roamer, I've not been able to play nearly as successfully (I'm honestly a decent enough player), on any of the classes I cared to make myself good with. In small to mid-sized groups, you have to further rely on big bombs happening immediately and downing MORE players straight away. In Large groups (20+) it really comes down to who stuns first and which necro/rev/guard drops the most chilled/torment/burn. Again...this is not different than it was before, and I dare say factually it's a snoozefest most of the time.

You fall under that classification of players in my previous post on this thread that think this patch is great, because you don't know any better. You're comfortable with some very strange things, and it even further reinforces my notion that you are not an avid WvWer, because you made no mention of what it's like to be on the receiving end. To be honest, I think you're just parroting an idea someone else came up with.

[jaif.3518]

The skill of a player is even less rewarded now, and I'm not sure what or where your information comes from because, as a previously exclusive solo roamer, I've not been able to play nearly as successfully (I'm honestly a decent enough player), on any of the classes I cared to make myself good with. In small to mid-sized groups, you have to further rely on big bombs happening immediately and downing MORE players straight away. In Large groups (20+) it really comes down to who stuns first and which necro/rev/guard drops the most chilled/torment/burn. Again...this is not different than it was before, and I dare say factually it's a snoozefest most of the time.

You fall under that classification of players in my previous post on this thread that think this patch is great, because you don't know any better. You're comfortable with some very strange things, and it even further reinforces my notion that you are not an avid WvWer, because you made no mention of what it's like to be on the receiving end. To be honest, I think you're just parroting an idea someone else came up with.

Look up the word condescending. Reflect.

At a group level, the old meta rewarded piano skills far more than reactions and positioning. You formed your machine (x part scourge, y part firebrand, etc), practiced hitting buttons in sync, and then moved around the battlefield as a nearly invincible ship of death. Yes, sometimes clouding could take the ship down, but it wasn't a very fun way to play.

Now you have to choose when many of your top-tier skills are used based on the situation around you. Skirmishers have more of a chance to prey upon mistakes at the edge, and use of terrain and positioning matter more.

Count me among the players who like "strange things" like counterplay, build variety, and positioning.

Random tangent - has anybody noticed pull-skills surging? I've seen several groups of 2-4 players pulling odd targets from the edges of the zerg.

-Jeff

[Strider Pj.2193]

@jaif.3518 said:

The skill of a player is even less rewarded now, and I'm not sure what or where your information comes from because, as a previously exclusive solo roamer, I've not been able to play nearly as successfully (I'm honestly a decent enough player), on any of the classes I cared to make myself good with. In small to mid-sized groups, you have to further rely on big bombs happening immediately and downing MORE players straight away. In Large groups (20+) it really comes down to who stuns first and which necro/rev/guard drops the most chilled/torment/burn. Again...this is not different than it was before, and I dare say factually it's a snoozefest most of the time.

You fall under that classification of players in my previous post on this thread that think this patch is great, because you don't know any better. You're comfortable with some very strange things, and it even further reinforces my notion that you are not an avid WvWer, because you made no mention of what it's like to be on the receiving end. To be honest, I think you're just parroting an idea someone else came up with.

Random tangent - has anybody noticed pull-skills surging? I've seen several groups of 2-4 players pulling odd targets from the edges of the zerg.

-Jeff

There is a lot of ping-ponging, which many have speculated is because of the significant reduction in Stability. I think people have adjusted for this by bringing a lot more pulls.

[Stormscar.5489]

Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

Secondly, people saying the meta is exclusively condi and that there's nothing you can do about it are wrong. Even before the patch, good groups were starting to run 1 scrapper per party as much as possible, and now it has even more value. Support warriors or tempests are also quite decent (though scrapper is still stronger than tempests and preferred). While power revs are out of the meta, reapers or power scourges still perform quite well. Weavers can still bring some damage. Also, as heralds are being run less, it is harder to maintain fury and high stacks of might. Especially because revs are playing condi builds, they corrupt a lot now and are added on top of the boon stripping classes that were played. This is partly why people notice more cc/lack of stab.

Also, to say that fights are and feel the same is delusional. Before, getting the first bomb often decided fights, now you have a lot more time to recover, and proper movement must be maintained longer and influences a lot more the outcome of fights. There is way less pirateshipping with hammer heralds not being played too much.

[XenesisII.1540]

Played two days since the update, wvw is amazing.

[Styles.7469]

@"jaif.3518" said:

The skill of a player is even less rewarded now, and I'm not sure what or where your information comes from because, as a previously exclusive solo roamer, I've not been able to play nearly as successfully (I'm honestly a decent enough player), on any of the classes I cared to make myself good with. In small to mid-sized groups, you have to further rely on big bombs happening immediately and downing MORE players straight away. In Large groups (20+) it really comes down to who stuns first and which necro/rev/guard drops the most chilled/torment/burn. Again...this is not different than it was before, and I dare say factually it's a snoozefest most of the time.

You fall under that classification of players in my previous post on this thread that think this patch is great, because you don't know any better. You're comfortable with some very strange things, and it even further reinforces my notion that you are not an avid WvWer, because you made no mention of what it's like to be on the receiving end. To be honest, I think you're just parroting an idea someone else came up with.

Look up the word condescending. Reflect.

At a group level, the old meta rewarded piano skills far more than reactions and positioning. You formed your machine (x part scourge, y part firebrand, etc), practiced hitting buttons in sync, and then moved around the battlefield as a nearly invincible ship of death. Yes, sometimes clouding could take the ship down, but it wasn't a very fun way to play.

Now you have to choose when many of your top-tier skills are used based on the situation around you. Skirmishers have more of a chance to prey upon mistakes at the edge, and use of terrain and positioning matter more.

Count me among the players who like "strange things" like counterplay, build variety, and positioning.

Random tangent - has anybody noticed pull-skills surging? I've seen several groups of 2-4 players pulling odd targets from the edges of the zerg.

-Jeff

Sorry, not sorry, to inform you but my level of condescension doesn't invalidate anything I said and isn't part of the issue. So really there's nothing to reflect just because you don't like the way I address things. =/

At a group level the old meta rewarded bad players and bad groups, and poor playing style, I agree, but only in very large numbers were groups like that significant or successful, and usually only against other bad players and groups. It also wasn't punishing to good groups and players, so I agree with that too. This is the third time I've said that now. In this "just the tip" meta thing we've got now because of the limited variety of effective builds, it is far more punishing to good groups and players to engage when outmanned because their skill is completely overshadowed by game mechanics which do not allow them to function based -on that skill- they developed nearly as much. Yes, they can still achieve some success, but now all of their practice, rotations, synchronizations, etc. etc. matter a lot less. That is, at least, until some things are inevitably re-buffed. At least pre-patch the rewards, though not very substantial outside of dynamic engagements and victories, weren't just a means to not be punished for developing a playstyle that progressed the way we play, based on how we play and not some boring, stale mechanical change.

What you're saying exists now as the new meta has always existed...the way to fight effectively has not changed, but we're more hampered by game mechanics because kids wanted it to be easier to play without worrying about their ego getting smashed because they don't like to lose.

More to the fact, you have to choose when to use these so called top tier skills? What? That's what good groups and player do/did already. Shifting to the now, we are more limited in our scope of acceptable, synergistic builds and compositions. I'm sure you meant well with what you said, but offhandedly agreeing with me in your own words without realizing it just helps me prove my point. How many balance patches have we been told something along the lines of , "We're changing the way this skill works to give it more viability."? This patch, yeah, killed a lot of those improved functionalities (like hot damn...the cooldowns w.t.eff actually with some of them) You have to appreciate when you tell me we have more build variety and counter-playable B.S. when the opposite holds a greater truth (now at least). More people are playing easier, low-tier, low skill-ceiling builds that vary (if at all) ever-so marginally that it's hard for me to believe this is a serious belief people share and don't appreciate the irony. Like...seriously there are more burn guards, reapers, and condi revs than I've ever seen, and I've been through three tiers of WvW since the patch dropped.

Skirmishers and roamers have always had the opportunity to "prey upon the mistakes" and blah blah blah, and terrain advantages also always mattered. That hasn't changed either and people keep picking at points like that as if it isn't stating the obvious. Engaging more aggressively because there isn't as harsh a consequence isn't being aggressive, it's because there aren't as great of consequences for actually making mistakes.

Pre-patch: Go in, try to capitalize on a mistake the enemy group made, boom, the enemy group pays for it.Post-patch: The same, but the enemy group passively doesn't have to worry about dying for making that mistake because there isn't a looming threat because of the mistake they made, and out the window goes the opportunity to learn from it.

It's going to promote laziness in the long run. Effectually bad groups and players can get away with more (hmm...so can the group they're trying to "pick off") without worrying about consequences. Congratulations, again, everyone is getting a safer place to play.

[Riba.3271]

@Styles.7469 said:

@"jaif.3518" said:

The skill of a player is even less rewarded now, and I'm not sure what or where your information comes from because, as a previously exclusive solo roamer, I've not been able to play nearly as successfully (I'm honestly a decent enough player), on any of the classes I cared to make myself good with. In small to mid-sized groups, you have to further rely on big bombs happening immediately and downing MORE players straight away. In Large groups (20+) it really comes down to who stuns first and which necro/rev/guard drops the most chilled/torment/burn. Again...this is not different than it was before, and I dare say factually it's a snoozefest most of the time.

You fall under that classification of players in my previous post on this thread that think this patch is great, because you don't know any better. You're comfortable with some very strange things, and it even further reinforces my notion that you are not an avid WvWer, because you made no mention of what it's like to be on the receiving end. To be honest, I think you're just parroting an idea someone else came up with.

Look up the word condescending. Reflect.

At a group level, the old meta rewarded piano skills far more than reactions and positioning. You formed your machine (x part scourge, y part firebrand, etc), practiced hitting buttons in sync, and then moved around the battlefield as a nearly invincible ship of death. Yes, sometimes clouding could take the ship down, but it wasn't a very fun way to play.

Now you have to choose when many of your top-tier skills are used based on the situation around you. Skirmishers have more of a chance to prey upon mistakes at the edge, and use of terrain and positioning matter more.

Count me among the players who like "strange things" like counterplay, build variety, and positioning.

Random tangent - has anybody noticed pull-skills surging? I've seen several groups of 2-4 players pulling odd targets from the edges of the zerg.

-Jeff

Sorry, not sorry, to inform you but my level of condescension doesn't invalidate anything I said and isn't part of the issue. So really there's nothing to reflect just because you don't like the way I address things. =/

At a group level the old meta rewarded bad players and bad groups, and poor playing style, I agree, but only in very large numbers were groups like that significant or successful, and usually only against other bad players and groups. It also wasn't punishing to good groups and players, so I agree with that too. This is the third time I've said that now. In this "just the tip" meta thing we've got now because of the limited variety of effective builds, it is far more punishing to good groups and players to engage when outmanned because their skill is completely overshadowed by game mechanics which do not allow them to function based -on that skill- they developed nearly as much. Yes, they can still achieve some success, but now all of their practice, rotations, synchronizations, etc. etc. matter a lot less. That is, at least, until some things are inevitably re-buffed. At least pre-patch the rewards, though not very substantial outside of dynamic engagements and victories, weren't just a means to not be punished for developing a playstyle that progressed the way we play, based on how we play and not some boring, stale mechanical change.

What you're saying is the new meta has always existed...

More to the fact, you have to choose when to use these so called top tier skills? What? That's what good groups and player do/did already. Shifting to the now, we are more limited in our scope of acceptable, synergistic builds and compositions. I'm sure you meant well with what you said, but offhandedly agreeing with me in your own words without realizing it just helps me prove my point. How many balance patches have we been told something along the lines of , "We're changing the way this skill works to give it more viability."? This patch, yeah, killed a lot of those improved functionalities (like hot kitten...the cooldowns w.t.eff actually with some of them) You have to appreciate when you tell me we have more build variety and counter-playable B.S. when the opposite holds a greater truth (now at least). More people are playing easier, low-tier, low skill-ceiling builds that vary (if at all) ever-so marginally that it's hard for me to believe this is a serious belief people share and don't appreciate the irony. Like...seriously there are more burn guards, reapers, and condi revs than I've ever seen, and I've been through three tiers of WvW since the patch dropped.

Skirmishers and roamers have always had the opportunity to "prey upon the mistakes" and blah blah blah, and terrain advantages also always mattered. That hasn't changed either and people keep picking at points like that as if it isn't stating the obvious. Engaging more aggressively because there isn't as harsh a consequence isn't being aggressive, it's because there aren't as great of consequences for actually making mistakes.

Pre-patch: Go in, try to capitalize on a mistake the enemy group made, boom, the enemy group pays for it.Post-patch: The same, but the enemy group passively doesn't have to worry about dying for making that mistake because there isn't a looming threat because of the mistake they made, and out the window goes the opportunity to learn from it.

It's going to promote laziness in the long run. Effectually bad groups and players can get away with more (hmm...so can the group they're trying to "pick off") without worrying about consequences. Congratulations, again, everyone is getting a safer place to play.

There are still ways to 1-shot enemies. You just run Fiery GS eles, Scourge wells and axe 3 still deal close to prepatch damage together, add the fact that rev deals about same damage but has longer cooldowns. Spellbreaker GS F1 nerf hasn't even gone through yet. If you really want to end the fight in first engage, which doesn't sound very fun, you have to compromise your builds or composition for it. And become more organised. Have you even tried giving your spellbreakers fiery GS before engage (they can still use adrenaline skills with fiery GS)? Like yea, sometimes your 1-shot comp didn't 1-shot something, but big deal, try again. At least you can't just run 1 "stealth, superspeed" comp anymore and have enough damage to kill everything in 1-hit.

Current condirev is harder than old power rev. Reaper being able to deal more damage than scourge is just balanced considering how much support scourge has.

I'd say preferring short 30 second fights over a few minute ones is quite an interesting point of view.

[Timelord.8190]

This patch hasn't brought balance to the different classes. They need to balance risk/gain. Now you can play on a heavy armored with dire gear and deal more damage than light-armored classes. Also, Elementalist were used to bring down arrow-carts on top of the wall. Now it's not anywhere near as good as it was before. If they tone down damage they should also tone down the hp on sige and the damage sige does. Hardly any classes can take down AC's amymore. I hope anet looks into how many classes can actually deal with the AC's when it's well placed on the inner part of the wall.I hope they are focusing on balance WvW skills more, not just class-specific skills but all the other things that ruin WvW. Like the defender's advantage, keep aura and such which have made the game mode stale for so long.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

This thread has alot of merit on both sides but its also amusing because of people arguing with commanders about what is and isn't happening.

Personally I've enjoyed WvW alot lately, especially with Warclaw nerfs, I just think we need some more addressing of the server populations (like add a 2nd EBG-like map to deal with queues and delete a tier or two on NA), and reduction of full escape kits.

Currently my server is linked with a server in the T1 matchup and its still dead most of the day, and the highest queue I've seen even at primetime after reset was something like 8-9 people waiting on EBG, compared to 60-70 in 2017. Its clear for a while now that the balance patches can't solve everything and at some point they're going to have to do something about the populations.

Conditions don't seem nearly as common as people make it out to be, just your occasional Necro or Rev.

I haven't tagged up since the update, so I can't speak about how it affects squad play for me.

[Styles.7469]

@"Threather.9354" said:There are still ways to 1-shot enemies. You just run Fiery GS eles, Scourge wells and axe 3 still deal close to prepatch damage together, add the fact that rev deals about same damage but has longer cooldowns. Spellbreaker GS F1 nerf hasn't even gone through yet. If you really want to end the fight in first engage, which doesn't sound very fun, you have to compromise your builds or composition for it. And become more organised. Have you even tried giving your spellbreakers fiery GS before engage (they can still use adrenaline skills with fiery GS)? Like yea, sometimes your 1-shot comp didn't 1-shot something, but big deal, try again. At least you can't just run 1 "stealth, superspeed" comp anymore and have enough damage to kill everything in 1-hit.

Current condirev is harder than old power rev. Reaper being able to deal more damage than scourge is just balanced considering how much support scourge has.

I'd say preferring short 30 second fights over a few minute ones is quite an interesting point of view.

One-shotting isn't a priority. One-shotting is actually quite boring. =P I knew this would come up eventually and that is not my stance. I was in a guild that practically re-invented the true stealth/sustain bombing meta (before Engi's got their huge stealth elite buffs). It got very boring after a while just walking into clouds of enemies with our 10-18 man comp and watching 40+ enemies get slaughtered (although it did make for great highlight reels, lol). We definitely got more pleasure out of hard, open engagements where mistakes actually mattered, especially from other groups of equable or greater skill level.

The point is that it wasn't as boring or artificially engaging as what this patch has turned this game mode into. I understand that not everyone agrees, but you're taking more time, to do less damage, with less potential survivability, and overall lack of builds optimization options. The biggest threat and most discouraging factor are now Veteran Guards and Siege damage. It's honestly not even the players, in my opinion. It does not feel as rewarding when you don't even really have to worry about when to pop your skills and can actually just stand in the damage because the damage has been nerfed to such a great degree.

30-60 seconds of fighting is a long time, I don't know why that gets misconstrued. In 30 seconds there is enough time to rotate two, possibly three big bombs depending on your comp, position yourself, attempt to sustain and recover, etc. etc. etc. Why this mistaken conception which fights "last longer" is such a huge deal is beyond me, because looking at it from my angle that's an even more interesting point of view. The fights themselves aren't lasting that much longer WHEN GROUPS FINALLY ENGAGE, lol. And the only reason they last as long as they do is because you push a bit, then full disengage because you get scared and thin you're gonna die, rinse, repeat. I mentioned it in a previous post, it's a lot of stand-offish nonsense and more pirate y-ship than it's been for a while.

[Aeolus.3615]

The only condition that’s overperforming due it’s burst it’s fire..... instant night number off stacks.

That’s not how conditions are ment to pressure that way..

Wondering if condi balance could be better if Anet returned to the old minus pip degen system.

[Cuks.8241]

@Styles.7469 said:

Just my 2 cents. Won't go into meta or skill floor because I don't thing it will make such a big difference in the long run.

People like longer fights because it is the fun part of the game. It's not about the skill floor or meta diversity or anything. We just like fights lasting longer because that is why we play. Sure there is strategy and tactics and ppt... in the end it is about the engagement which is the really fun, adrenaline filled part of the game and everything builds up to it. If it lasts longer the game just feels more engaging.

I don't think the stare down changed in any way. It was there before and its still here. Don't see why it should change and I don't think it did. Weave in, weave out before engagement tactics are perfectly viable in many games for different reasons (baiting, attrition or just testing response) and don't see how this is now less skill full or anything.

[KrHome.1920]

Condi builds are not the problem. Firebrand is!

I can counter every single condi build in the game and I can build a direct damage blob that can counter a condi damage blob.

The problem starts where condi bunkers are paired with minstrel firebrands. At this point it gets ugly. Not heal scrappers and not heal elementalists... just firebrands! The spec is and has always been broken as a healer.

What I see recently is that every group of 5 players consists of 2 healbrands and 3 condi bunkers for the maximum cheese effect. I've never died to such a group since the damage is super low with a few cleanses. But these groups can't be killed with the same amount of players. The fight is endless. And if you are outnumbered you can just stand at 1300 range and watch them capping your stuff because when you come close they will kill you in a 3 minute attrition fight.

[jaif.3518]

Burn is too powerful. Maybe just Burn guards, not sure.Siege is a bit too powerful. Lowering sustain without lowering arrow cart damage was a problem.

But vitality suddenly matters. Condi is a threat. CCs actually work sometimes. Oh, and projectiles occasionally land on targets.

Yes, these things can be countered, but it's not as automatic as it used to be. There's more play and counterplay, sustain and endurance matter a bit.

-Jeff

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@KrHome.1920 said:Condi builds are not the problem. Firebrand is!

I can counter every single condi build in the game and I can build a direct damage blob that can counter a condi damage blob.

The problem starts where condi bunkers are paired with minstrel firebrands. At this point it gets ugly. Not heal scrappers and not heal elementalists... just firebrands! The spec is and has always been broken as a healer.

What I see recently is that every group of 5 players consists of 2 healbrands and 3 condi bunkers for the maximum cheese effect. I've never died to such a group since the damage is super low with a few cleanses. But these groups can't be killed with the same amount of players. The fight is endless. And if you are outnumbered you can just stand at 1300 range and watch them capping your stuff because when you come close they will kill you in a 3 minute attrition fight.

In small scale roaming...ya double firebrand is a big pain sure.

But large scale you can’t take double firebrand...even if commanders wanted too, they just don’t have enough cleanse to cleanse in the condo Meta and if you go 3 support 2 dps you just can’t kill anything...so it’s firebrand/scrapper just like before.

[Malavian.4695]

I agree with most of your points about the WvW scene being more fun now. I'm only worried that the initial enthusiasm was only for the double Wxp that was running.

That said:

@"Threather.9354" said:Build diversity is also a thing now, condi/hybrid builds are arguably viable now, condis were nonexistant before. Reapers and core Necros can finally survive long enough in shroud for meta to not only be "shadebombs", stealth cheese and pirateship. I can play even shout spellbreaker and feel useful because there are actually condis to cleanse and fights last long enough for my shorter cooldowns to get some advantage over yolo stance builds. There is also stat diversity other than Berserker and Minstrel.

I don't necessarily agree with the build diversity. There were many a guild I fought that would simply bomb all condi on choke points so...not really feeling the diversity. If anything I've notice a few players I work with switching over to condi builds because their hammer Revenants got nerfed.

T3 keeps are still way too strong.

I respectfully disagree. They should be a reason to gather large zergs/blobs and challenge them. They shouldn't ever be "easy".

Also mount stomp is a stupid RNG mechanic, the worst feeling is when one enemy just happens to join the fight with his mount when you or your teammate is down and finish a player that you would get otherwise up.

Mount stomp can be a viable tactic for a good zerg though holding a portion in reserve as cavalry to run in and stomp downs. That is not a stupid mechanic it was designed for zerg battles. Try it.

The only thing I'm missing is it's easier to remove the boons or convert them to condis than the reverse. I kind of wish they'd ditch the boon conversion and condi conversion entirely and just go to removal of each instead.

[Lalary.3561]

@Styles.7469 said:

Just my 2 cents. Won't go into meta or skill floor because I don't thing it will make such a big difference in the long run.

People like longer fights because it is the fun part of the game. It's not about the skill floor or meta diversity or anything. We just like fights lasting longer because that is why we play. Sure there is strategy and tactics and ppt... in the end it is about the engagement which is the really fun, adrenaline filled part of the game and everything builds up to it. If it lasts longer the game just feels more engaging.

I don't think the stare down changed in any way. It was there before and its still here. Don't see why it should change and I don't think it did. Weave in, weave out before engagement tactics are perfectly viable in many games for different reasons (baiting, attrition or just testing response) and don't see how this is now less skill full or anything.

People like longer fights? I'm guessing you never left your squad to 1v1 a boonbeast or a marshal weaver or any other sustain heavy builds.How can a game be more engaging and adrenaline pumping when it doesn't even punish players for making every mistakes nor rewarding them for flawless plays?

[Cuks.8241]

@Lalary.3561 said:

@Styles.7469 said:

Just my 2 cents. Won't go into meta or skill floor because I don't thing it will make such a big difference in the long run.

People like longer fights because it is the fun part of the game. It's not about the skill floor or meta diversity or anything. We just like fights lasting longer because that is why we play. Sure there is strategy and tactics and ppt... in the end it is about the engagement which is the really fun, adrenaline filled part of the game and everything builds up to it. If it lasts longer the game just feels more engaging.

I don't think the stare down changed in any way. It was there before and its still here. Don't see why it should change and I don't think it did. Weave in, weave out before engagement tactics are perfectly viable in many games for different reasons (baiting, attrition or just testing response) and don't see how this is now less skill full or anything.

People like longer fights? I'm guessing you never left your squad to 1v1 a boonbeast or a marshal weaver or any other sustain heavy builds.How can a game be more engaging and adrenaline pumping when it doesn't even punish players for making every mistakes nor rewarding them for flawless plays?

Half of my time in WvW I'm 1v1ing or small scale roaming. Also play both of those, well play pretty much all professions besides Rev and Thief but specifically those, yes I know well. Haven't yet tried my s/d tank marshal weaver since patch.For me fights between sustain builds are much more interesting and tactical. It is not just bait defences and execute combo, kill requirements are a bit more elaborate. And winning always comes down to punishing mistakes and doing less mistakes by yourself, always. If anything longer ttk promotes that even better because it diminishes the effect of rng which is always a factor in these kind of games.Besides it is not like ttk went up by much. People exaggerate to much.

[Ramjam.4507]

Biggest problem currently is condi burst, and it's a much bigger problem then power burst ever was, there are much less options to counter condi bursts then power bursts as an induvidual player that is, it's hard to find the right balance between squad vs squad and 1v1 / 3v3 or such, in casual squad v squad (without voice or organised groups) conditions have made the meta even more burstier now then before, while in organised Squad v Squad (guild v guild) then it's a slower pace fight, and in both cases condition is the new thing for sure, then you have roaming or running back to squad, in both of these cases conditions have become too strong / bursty with little sacrifice to induvidual toughness / vitality and so on.

I wish they would rebuild how conditions work, less of a burst and more of a build up having to stack up multiple dots before damage become high, with most conditions having longer basetime then now, lower damage per tick, and make condi cleases even more sparse, making you have to consider well when to condi cleanse, this for both induvidual players & squad play supports.

Second biggest problem right now would be revive speed, it was a problem earlier aswell but now it's even worse, they really should rework that too, make it half the base speed of now, remove how boons like quickness and other factors affect it.

I kinda miss the old patch right now, not having fun in wvw currently at all, I like the update in general, I like what they did but they forgot to tune certain other aspects, when they nerfed power damage it made fights in general longer that by it self buffed conditions since condition builds work better for longer fights, so power took a double nerf compared to conditions, conditions would already been better off then old meta if both got a similar damage nerf.

I mostly looking to roam unless guild has a group up, so 70% of the time roaming solo or group of 3, I prefered playing power build but been forced to go condition since patch, and it's a lot more boring, it still works well and fights go well but not as fun, feels more like the build is playing rather then me playing.

[Svarty.8019]

Ganking is far too prevalent, the game seems to be 99% thieves (I know it's not but it feels that way) and ubiquitous CC spammage and then death. World of Stuncraft. Bleh horrible, cya next patch.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Biggest issue is games garbage pvp wise and most players realized that and left at this point so its barren at most times. I give even the new players by end of the ur by time they say this and leave lol

[XenesisII.1540]

Excuse me sir, but thieves are fine, 99% of those 99% are playing outliner non meta builds that no one else uses, in fact they probably should be given another dodge to make up for the loss of perma stealth from zergs.

[LetoII.3782]

@Stormscar.5489 said:Man there is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread, probably coming from bad servers/guilds/roamers. First of all, nobody cares about roaming balance, wvw balance is for group fights, whether it is 15/30/50+ etc. If you want balance for small scale fights, you can go pvp.

Yeah, so much ignorance. BLOBBING IS ALL, ONLY BLOBBERS MATTER

[Aeolus.3615]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Excuse me sir, but thieves are fine, 99% of those 99% are playing outliner non meta builds that no one else uses, in fact they probably should be given another dodge to make up for the loss of perma stealth from zergs.

I’ve killed a thief with spirit weapons burn guard.. buff theeef.

Altough was true that happened, game isn’t bad but there’s a lot weird feeling things happening, like the siege combat, we can bleed iron and wood, poison, and ally strange conditions to objects...

Players vs siege vs players needs a better interaction...