Dont discriminate us twice!

[Raknar.4735]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:It would also be nice if humans had some extra features for customization like the other races have.

Charr have horns and fur patterns.Asura have skin markings and ears.Sylvari have skin patterns.Norn have tattoos and beards.

Humans don't seem to have anything unique to them aside from beards.

I guess the most face and hair styles doesnt count?

Not my point. Having a face and a hairstyle isn't unique to humans.

Ah. Well, to be fair what -would- they have? us humans dont have much stuff thats unique in a world such as this.

I don't know. Since hair ornaments are bound to specific hairstyles, they are out of the question. Maybe something like face make-up? Amulets?

Edit: They could make those extras related to The Six, since the religious aspect seems to be unique to humans.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

I'm really hoping we do get Asian faces/hair for humans, though. We're severely lacking them at the moment.

[Kruhljak.2705]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:I'm really hoping we do get Asian faces/hair for humans, though. We're severely lacking them at the moment.

With a bit of care, you can make a fairly decent Asian-ish face using some of the Elonian face templates as a base.

[ErickDntn.1847]

I think the reason that there are more varieties in human customization is that the devs already have rather concrete and specific frames of reference as to what is missing in the customization options since human cultural existence in Tyria is based on different cultures irl. And since all of human-players are, well, human, sense of character ownership comes naturally in a way that we want to create characters based on the stuff we see irl, or even ourselves, that can harmoniously exist with the in-game lore. Thus, devs are more likely to develop these new customization assets to prepare Cantha-themed expac because it's easier to pinpoint what sort of facial features or hairstyles etc that are missing that is unique to Canthan.

And I think its a good idea if Anet do another one of those community contest again but this time for non-human customization options just to see what exactly what capture the community's heart and avoid second-guessings.

[Fueki.4753]

I just wish Norn and humans could share all their hair styles.I really love that long braid with the parted bangs, but I don't like playing norn and towering over most characters.

I'd also like some advanced hair accessory options, like removing the ugly ear ornaments from that Asuran ponytail.

[anninke.7469]

Maybe they could at least gender-unlock all sylvari hairstyles. I need the mohawk for my plant lady.

[sorudo.9054]

it's funny to see ppl complain about customization while charr just got a bunch of horns while humans have not a single extra customization.charr - hornssylvari - ears and underglowasura - earsnorn - tattoohuman - ?

[Dante.1763]

@sorudo.9054 said:it's funny to see ppl complain about customization while charr just got a bunch of horns while humans have not a single extra customization.charr - hornssylvari - ears and underglowasura - earsnorn - tattoohuman - ?

TBH, the only thing that upsets me about Charr customization are the large amount of faces(at least 6. 2 female, four male that ive seen.) that arent available that are available on NPCS. Same goes with the Horns(unless you bug the game, but even then there are some.), Fur patterns(cant be obtained period), and fur colours(give me my slightly pink and slightly blue charr.).

For the rest of the races with the exception of i think the Sylvari, the vast majority of the faces, hairstyles etc -are- available. Do humans not have anything special, yes. But they do have the most options.

Norns tattoos are hardly even visible so they could complain too.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Dante.1763 said:Norns tattoos are hardly even visible so they could complain too.If you cant see the tattoos, then you are doing Norn right! Real Norn fight in their skivvies!

[Rukia.4802]

Lol since when does character customization need a lore reason to exist? :#

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Rukia.4802 said:Lol since when does character customization need a lore reason to exist? :#

Same reason that customization doesn't include antlers for Norn and bug antenna for Asura.

[crepuscular.9047]

Humans are Scourages of Worlds, we conquer and leave none behind, hence the 6 had left us to search for a new world for us to feast on next

[Substance E.4852]

@"Frostfang.5109" said:All races probably look different across the tyrians world., and not only humans.

Have you ever actually sat down and clicked through the faces for Charr?

There's such a broad range of physiology that you could argue that several faces were different sub species all together when combined with fur pattern/color and horn variety

I mean, hell what would a "Canthan Charr" even look like? A tiger or something? Pretty sure you can already make one of those.

[Frostfang.5109]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Frostfang.5109 said:All races probably look different across the tyrians world., and not only humans.

Have you ever actually sat down and clicked through the faces for Charr?

yes.... by far too many times!!!! I have almost only played charr since release!

[ugrakarma.9416]

they could play "adventures" card, like in Elon Riverlands: random adventurers sneked and landed in Cantha.

[Amy of Darkness.5248]

"Lore" is such an insincere, terrible excuse and it's a ludicrous reason to leave out the other 4 playables again in favor of humans who have overwhelmingly been coddled by the developers since forever. What is the "lore" reason that we got 3 faces each for Festival of Four Winds? Or Wintersday? Or after the fact when Season 2 came out? The festivals weren't even major expansions, and everyone got 3 faces-- in the makeover kit, which you have to purchase. The last 3 faces non-humans ever got was in a patch 5 years ago! Again, only for purchase.

Yea, sure-- Path of Fire, the human focused story with human gods in human-land, gave only humans new faces and hair--but for FREE, in the character creator at default. But when they also give one single new Charr female face and new horns, Charr players didn't get that for free, now, did they? A whole new tribe of Charr introduced but only 1 face and some horns/hair, but you gotta pay for it. Did Sylvari get new, free faces and hair like humans did for POF, in the Heart of Thorns because it was Lore Appropriate™ time for them to get an update? No, not a one? So "the lore!" excuse is completely bogus. You just want humans to be the only ones who get nice things, and you're getting an entire new expansion focusing on an area where humans are the super-special only race there because they threw everyone else out. Directly catered to, and YET you still have to be a dog in the manger about other races you won't play even hypothetically getting nice things! I'm so tired of this!

Nobody is asking to stop servicing the humans, or even take options away from them. We just want more options for the others and don't want to be left even further behind AGAIN. Human female has at DEFAULT, 27 faces and human male has 20 and I guess the rest of us can eat dirt because other than Norn female (13) and Sylvari female (10) we get 9 except for asura male with only 8, and almost all of those faces are direct exports of the geriatric professor NPCs and feels like they didn't care enough about people wanting to play this race to bother making appropriate character designs to match the personal story of a young college STUDENT and not a retiree going back for further education, subsequently hauling his brittle bones out on adventures. It's like LOTR Bilbo ditching his memoirs, snatching the ring from Frodo and taking off for Mount Doom by himself.

As for the "humans get nothing special" point, that is fair to say, and even though I will never roll a human, I'd still vouch for an extra option for something like makeup, piercings and tattoos where the others have racial customization. Humans not having extra options though is no excuse for denying more faces/hair for the other races.

All we are asking is IF Cantha is bringing new faces for humans to fit the setting, then it is only fair to give us all more options too, it doesn't matter if there are no Asura, Charr, Sylvari or Norn in Cantha-- there should just be more variation in our own racial homelands to begin with, I don't even have a Charr yet but it appalls me to know they've been sitting on several NPC faces they could let the players have by now.

(post edit-- I had the wrong number and have corrected it)

[Donari.5237]

Bear in mind that the reason we got all those new faces for humans with PoF was that they had developed them anyway for the npcs and decided to take it one little step further by adding it to character creation. So really they were sharing completed work with the players rather than "discriminating" against non-Human characters. I took it as a niceness on their part.

That said I do strongly wish that they could/would do a similar update for all the races. Not just to have new options, to have better ones in terms of graphics. The Elonan faces are just better sculpted, higher rez -- compare a bald Elonan head to a bald Norn and see how much smoother it is.

[mikansei.5742]

@Amy of Darkness.5248 said:But when they also give one single new Charr female face and new horns, Charr players didn't get that for free, now, did they?

...Yeah, actually, they did.

[Dante.1763]

@"Donari.5237" said:Bear in mind that the reason we got all those new faces for humans with PoF was that they had developed them anyway for the npcs and decided to take it one little step further by adding it to character creation. So really they were sharing completed work with the players rather than "discriminating" against non-Human characters. I took it as a niceness on their part.

That said I do strongly wish that they could/would do a similar update for all the races. Not just to have new options, to have better ones in terms of graphics. The Elonan faces are just better sculpted, higher rez -- compare a bald Elonan head to a bald Norn and see how much smoother it is.

Why didnt they do that for Charr then? the NPCs in game even the normal ones have access to options Charr players dont get. Just allow all the NPC stuff to be used, so many more options almost instantly(im sure its harder than that.)

[Fueki.4753]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Donari.5237" said:Bear in mind that the reason we got all those new faces for humans with PoF was that they had developed them anyway for the npcs and decided to take it one little step further by adding it to character creation. So really they were sharing completed work with the players rather than "discriminating" against non-Human characters. I took it as a niceness on their part.

That said I do strongly wish that they could/would do a similar update for all the races. Not just to have new options, to have

better

ones in terms of graphics. The Elonan faces are just better sculpted, higher rez -- compare a bald Elonan head to a bald Norn and see how much smoother it is.

Why didnt they do that for Charr then? the NPCs in game even the normal ones have access to options Charr players dont get. Just allow all the NPC stuff to be used, so many more options almost instantly(im sure its harder than that.)

Maybe some people complained about the prior options lacking in African representation?You don't have Charr, Sylvari and Asura in RL, so noone can complain about missing representation.Norn are modelled after how the Romans saw the "giant Germanic" nature-worshipping tribes, so African representation wouldn't make sense either.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Donari.5237" said:Bear in mind that the reason we got all those new faces for humans with PoF was that they had developed them anyway for the npcs and decided to take it one little step further by adding it to character creation. So really they were sharing completed work with the players rather than "discriminating" against non-Human characters. I took it as a niceness on their part.

That said I do strongly wish that they could/would do a similar update for all the races. Not just to have new options, to have

better

ones in terms of graphics. The Elonan faces are just better sculpted, higher rez -- compare a bald Elonan head to a bald Norn and see how much smoother it is.

Why didnt they do that for Charr then? the NPCs in game even the normal ones have access to options Charr players dont get. Just allow all the NPC stuff to be used, so many more options almost instantly(im sure its harder than that.)

Maybe some people complained about the prior options lacking in African representation?You don't have Charr, Sylvari and Asura in RL, so noone can complain about missing representation.Norn are modelled after how the Romans saw the "giant Germanic" nature-worshipping tribes, so African representation wouldn't make sense either.

Do you really think people wont want Asian representation too? I know I do if we are going to cantha even though I don't play a human. I hate nightfall and elona and my birth-place in tyria was cantha. However I am a norn player... a norn male player....

I feel like despite the fact norn get tattoos we are the ones who get the shaft, we have nothing really unique outside of that and while the tattoos are nice our faces/hairs/beards and so on are dated. Ill gladly let humans have tats as well but what I wouldn't give for a long beard or longer hair or even the choice of scars on my body, or differing tattoos. Charr got a good bunch of things dropped on them and so did humans and IM SURE humans will get a ton more in the future with cantha, but as a non-human player it miffs me that I don't get squat.

Im even sure the E-specs will be human based, which will diswayed my interest just like PoF did as I really couldn't care less about the humans or their lore anymore. (Though ill be honest I like how canthan's aren't the typical humans we are acustomed too...) So I agree we ALL should get new toys to play with or NONE of us should, so if the rest of us don't get new faces or hairs then the humans shouldn't either so any dreams of making a canthan and really getting it should be squashed. Im tired of as a norn feeling like Im getting the shaft, Hell we are in the NORN STORY this saga... yet... the norn haven't received any real attention or toys at all. In fact its been mostly about the charr, so as a norn player Im disgruntled... and I want some love from Papa A-net.

[Fueki.4753]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Donari.5237" said:Bear in mind that the reason we got all those new faces for humans with PoF was that they had developed them anyway for the npcs and decided to take it one little step further by adding it to character creation. So really they were sharing completed work with the players rather than "discriminating" against non-Human characters. I took it as a niceness on their part.

That said I do strongly wish that they could/would do a similar update for all the races. Not just to have new options, to have

better

ones in terms of graphics. The Elonan faces are just better sculpted, higher rez -- compare a bald Elonan head to a bald Norn and see how much smoother it is.

Why didnt they do that for Charr then? the NPCs in game even the normal ones have access to options Charr players dont get. Just allow all the NPC stuff to be used, so many more options almost instantly(im sure its harder than that.)

Maybe some people complained about the prior options lacking in African representation?You don't have Charr, Sylvari and Asura in RL, so noone can complain about missing representation.Norn are modelled after how the Romans saw the "giant Germanic" nature-worshipping tribes, so African representation wouldn't make sense either.

Do you really think people wont want Asian representation too? I know I do if we are going to cantha even though I don't play a human. I hate nightfall and elona and my birth-place in tyria was cantha. However I am a norn player... a norn male player....

I feel like despite the fact norn get tattoos we are the ones who get the shaft, we have nothing really unique outside of that and while the tattoos are nice our faces/hairs/beards and so on are dated. Ill gladly let humans have tats as well but what I wouldn't give for a long beard or longer hair or even the choice of scars on my body, or differing tattoos. Charr got a good bunch of things dropped on them and so did humans and IM SURE humans will get a ton more in the future with cantha, but as a non-human player it miffs me that I don't get squat.

Im even sure the E-specs will be human based, which will diswayed my interest just like PoF did as I really couldn't care less about the humans or their lore anymore. (Though ill be honest I like how canthan's aren't the typical humans we are acustomed too...) So I agree we ALL should get new toys to play with or NONE of us should, so if the rest of us don't get new faces or hairs then the humans shouldn't either so any dreams of making a canthan and really getting it should be squashed. Im tired of as a norn feeling like Im getting the shaft, Hell we are in the NORN STORY this saga... yet... the norn haven't received any real attention or toys at all. In fact its been mostly about the charr, so as a norn player Im disgruntled... and I want some love from Papa A-net.

I just meant that this "social justice" stuff might be the driving reason why Arenanet decided to add mostly (if not only) human creation additions.I'd love for all races to get equal attention, but I doubt it'll happen.

Also, I don't think it's actually meant to be a Norn Story, unless Arenanet brings out the full might of the Norn women (because the males, other than plot armour Braham, can't be trusted currently) in every episode from now on.Other than Braham and the Sons of Svanir, we got mostly Charr exposure.Even Kodan had more exposure than Norn.But I agree that it's a bad move to mostly exclude Norn in the Jormag story.I can't fathom why Arenanet would do that.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Donari.5237" said:Bear in mind that the reason we got all those new faces for humans with PoF was that they had developed them anyway for the npcs and decided to take it one little step further by adding it to character creation. So really they were sharing completed work with the players rather than "discriminating" against non-Human characters. I took it as a niceness on their part.

That said I do strongly wish that they could/would do a similar update for all the races. Not just to have new options, to have

better

ones in terms of graphics. The Elonan faces are just better sculpted, higher rez -- compare a bald Elonan head to a bald Norn and see how much smoother it is.

Why didnt they do that for Charr then? the NPCs in game even the normal ones have access to options Charr players dont get. Just allow all the NPC stuff to be used, so many more options almost instantly(im sure its harder than that.)

Maybe some people complained about the prior options lacking in African representation?You don't have Charr, Sylvari and Asura in RL, so noone can complain about missing representation.Norn are modelled after how the Romans saw the "giant Germanic" nature-worshipping tribes, so African representation wouldn't make sense either.

Do you really think people wont want Asian representation too? I know I do if we are going to cantha even though I don't play a human. I hate nightfall and elona and my birth-place in tyria was cantha. However I am a norn player... a norn male player....

I feel like despite the fact norn get tattoos we are the ones who get the shaft, we have nothing really unique outside of that and while the tattoos are nice our faces/hairs/beards and so on are dated. Ill gladly let humans have tats as well but what I wouldn't give for a long beard or longer hair or even the choice of scars on my body, or differing tattoos. Charr got a good bunch of things dropped on them and so did humans and IM SURE humans will get a ton more in the future with cantha, but as a non-human player it miffs me that I don't get squat.

Im even sure the E-specs will be human based, which will diswayed my interest just like PoF did as I really couldn't care less about the humans or their lore anymore. (Though ill be honest I like how canthan's aren't the typical humans we are acustomed too...) So I agree we ALL should get new toys to play with or NONE of us should, so if the rest of us don't get new faces or hairs then the humans shouldn't either so any dreams of making a canthan and really getting it should be squashed. Im tired of as a norn feeling like Im getting the shaft, Hell we are in the NORN STORY this saga... yet... the norn haven't received any real attention or toys at all. In fact its been mostly about the charr, so as a norn player Im disgruntled... and I want some love from Papa A-net.

I just meant that this "social justice" stuff might be the driving reason why Arenanet decided to add mostly (if not only) human creation additions.I'd love for all races to get equal attention, but I doubt it'll happen.

Also, I don't think it's actually meant to be a Norn Story, unless Arenanet brings out the full might of the Norn women (because the males, other than plot armour Braham, can't be trusted currently) in every episode from now on.Other than Braham and the Sons of Svanir, we got mostly Charr exposure.Even Kodan had more exposure than Norn.But I agree that it's a bad move to mostly exclude Norn in the Jormag story.I can't fathom why Arenanet would do that.

Because they hate the norn. Always have since guild wars 2 came out, They were designed back when the game was dark fantasy and them being hardened warriors with the ability to transform into monsters was too much. Truly the norn in lore would make short work of the charr as its stated three of them easily toppled a warband maybe more; They can't be allowed to have any purpose because A-net probably wishes they'd just disappear. I agree though unless the norn women actually become something within the story, I doubt we will get anything to do with the.

This was our arc, our story and now the dang felines are stealing it. Its made me resentful and hate filled for the entire species due to them being prevalent through the whole game and being relevant in every story and arc. Meanwhile I feel like my race is unwanted, unloved and above all the sloppy seconds of the game and ill be honest the norn were one of the main reasons I joined guild wars 2 at launch. Im not the only norn player who feels like this.... a lot of us do Im just the one who vocalizes it I have at least ten friends who all play norn exclusively like I do. And they are all angry to the point where about half of them have left the game, and probably wont come back because they are upset with how the norn have been handled.

Its made me realize I don't want them to add a new race, yes tengu would be cool if it could ever happen. But that would be one more race Id have to watch be the center of attention while the norn never have been even applicable for plot relevance. I hate humans, I despise charr and I honestly kinda Loathe the sylvari and its all because they get so much plot thrown their way and I get none. Heck even the asuran are more relevant than the norn are.... and thats just poor writing and poopy game design... but what do I know.

[Amy of Darkness.5248]

@"mikansei.5742" said:...Yeah, actually, they did.

Then I stand corrected, the wiki article on it was poorly worded. As I admitted I don't have a Charr yet and can only go by information that's presumed to be correct on the official wiki. Then again, there's more than a few speculative fan theories stated as fact there. So, female Charr had only 8 faces before that? All that did was even out the face options with male.

Maybe they should have considered more broad racial features for human faces when they allowed us to adjust the skin tone instead of making a batch of creepy, neotenic, vaguely European faces with varying levels of makeup for the human females. Why did Asura have African style hair before the humans did? It's not "social justice" just to realize POC exist, y'know. I can understand why Anet wouldn't want to charge money for the option of POC features, but that's them dropping the ball from launch and forgetting them in the first place. Nightfall already existed before this game, even without the Elona expansion on the horizon they should have been considered from the start and that goes for potential Canthan faces, too. We know they existed in Tyria and they could've slowed it with the "14 year old girl, 14 year old girl but with makeup" and included those from the get-go. And then saved the thick lipstick, plucked eyebrows and smoky eyes for the extra features panel instead.

Also, the fact that Asura, Charr, Sylvari don't exist in real life is what opens them up to so much potentially interesting diversity that they're failing to capitalize on. There should be even MORE options than boring, basic humans. Even with the Norn, there should definitely be wilder Norn diversity instead of the same Brock Lesnar clones. Why not some Norn that retain animal features from their shape-shifting or the animal spirit they chose in character creation? Feathers for hair, claws, leopard eyes... often folklore about shape-shifting beings has some of those retain some of their wilder features even in "human" form.

GW2 has their own unique fantasy races, and suddenly no inspiration or idea what to do with them design-wise? As a creator myself, I find that hard to believe, almost offensive. I've seen the fan community come up with so many creative new designs and faces for these races. Even if they can't for legal reasons base anything off of those, it shows how there's potential for so much more that's being wasted by just not even trying. Real life humans are the ones whose designs are restrained by adherence to reality, when you make your entire own species it is only your own lack of imagination that hems you in.

Storywise yes I'd agree the Norn have been ill served throughout the last few major arcs, but this story started off as a Charr story and morphed into a Norn one, not the other way around. Now it's coming back to Charr again. I'm sure the Charr players feel equally used that they were about to get deeper story with the legions and suddenly it's about Jormag and we're going to Norn land and getting all this Svanir stuff. But that is the intent isn't it? The story is literally about the Charr attempting to steal the Norn's glory, for political purposes.