Increase healing speed on downed allies

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:There is a simple answer to all this.

Remove Downstate.

This ^ 0 hp means 0 hp. Or at least remove teamates ability to revive others in pvp modes. Necro revive assist could be changed to increase downed players self revive rate by 15% if in range. Teammates can still try and protect their aly while their self razing if they want.Pve keep it who cares.

I mean sure, but we can't ignore the fact that there are several abilities that exist in this game for no other purpose than their interaction with downed state.

As an example, what do we do with Function Gyro if they remove downed state? Ask them to redesign it for WvW / PvP? I still can't copy/paste a discord address from the chat box, but I'm to believe ANET has the resources for this?

Also, how much compensation should players receive for all the finishers they can no longer use? Should that be in gold, gems, or should ANET cut a cheque and mail it directly to the player?

This isn't a discussion about whether or not downed state should be in the game - it IS in the game, and the amount of work it would take to surgically remove it from WvW/PvP just seems silly. So debating the merits of its existence is just a waste of time and energy.

Talking about reducing the heal rate, etc etc etc, all good to do. But people need to abandon the notion that downed state will be perma removed in competitive play: while it is of course possible, it would be highly unlikely, to the point where I would say there exists just as much a chance for ANET to remove downed state from competitive play as there is of them removing stealth. It's just not going to happen.

My advice is simply this: if downed state offends someone so strongly, they should just play a different game. I tell the same thing to people wishing GW2 had aggro tables in PvE, with true Tanks and Healers. This isn't the right game for them.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol oh no someone wants to nerf my carry mechanic, pls go play a different game if u don't like it lol. Soon u will be to considering games population:).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:There is a simple answer to all this.

Remove Downstate.

This ^ 0 hp means 0 hp. Or at least remove teamates ability to revive others in pvp modes. Necro revive assist could be changed to increase downed players self revive rate by 15% if in range. Teammates can still try and protect their aly while their self razing if they want.Pve keep it who cares.

I mean sure, but we can't ignore the fact that there are several abilities that exist in this game for no other purpose than their interaction with downed state.

As an example, what do we do with Function Gyro if they remove downed state? Ask them to redesign it for WvW / PvP? I still can't copy/paste a discord address from the chat box, but I'm to believe ANET has the resources for this?

Also, how much compensation should players receive for all the finishers they can no longer use? Should that be in gold, gems, or should ANET cut a cheque and mail it directly to the player?

This isn't a discussion about whether or not downed state should be in the game - it IS in the game, and the amount of work it would take to surgically remove it from WvW/PvP just seems silly. So debating the merits of its existence is just a waste of time and energy.

Talking about reducing the heal rate, etc etc etc, all good to do. But people need to abandon the notion that downed state will be perma removed in competitive play: while it is of course possible, it would be highly unlikely, to the point where I would say there exists just as much a chance for ANET to remove downed state from competitive play as there is of them removing stealth. It's just not going to happen.

My advice is simply this: if downed state offends someone so strongly, they should just play a different game. I tell the same thing to people wishing GW2 had aggro tables in PvE, with true Tanks and Healers. This isn't the right game for them.

If u actually read my post ull see I said to change all revive skills and traits to allow players to increase their aly's self rez speed which would still be useful but not at carry lv like al lot of downstate machanics are these days.I'm sry I proposed a small nerf to ur carry wars 2 mechanic lmao

[anduriell.6280]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Also, how much compensation should players receive for all the finishers they can no longer use? Should that be in gold, gems, or should ANET cut a cheque and mail it directly to the player?Anet is not obliged to give you any compensations for the finishers.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:This isn't a discussion about whether or not downed state should be in the game - it IS in the game, and the amount of work it would take to surgically remove it from WvW/PvP just seems silly. So debating the merits of its existence is just a waste of time and energy.There is not additional work to be done because it is already implemented. No-downed state events have been in place already.

Downed state in WvW is the worst thing this game mode has to offer. It is one of the reasons why this gamemode bleeds players and it should be balanced. It is one of the main reasons why kids tend to blob and it is the main reason why well organized squads ca not beat a disorganized blob.

Removing the downstate entirely is a little bit harsh, But to remove the revive action while on combat would be an step in a good direction and maybe even enough to make full guilds to come back to the game mode.

Rally can stay as it needs some action against the enemy team.Also it could throw some light into the reviving skills which rigth now are completely useless in wvw because "F to ress" is free.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:There is a simple answer to all this.

Remove Downstate.

This ^ 0 hp means 0 hp. Or at least remove teamates ability to revive others in pvp modes. Necro revive assist could be changed to increase downed players self revive rate by 15% if in range. Teammates can still try and protect their aly while their self razing if they want.Pve keep it who cares.

I mean sure, but we can't ignore the fact that there are several abilities that exist in this game for no other purpose than their interaction with downed state.

As an example, what do we do with Function Gyro if they remove downed state? Ask them to redesign it for WvW / PvP? I still can't copy/paste a discord address from the chat box, but I'm to believe ANET has the resources for this?

Also, how much compensation should players receive for all the finishers they can no longer use? Should that be in gold, gems, or should ANET cut a cheque and mail it directly to the player?

This isn't a discussion about whether or not downed state should be in the game - it IS in the game, and the amount of work it would take to surgically remove it from WvW/PvP just seems silly. So debating the merits of its existence is just a waste of time and energy.

Talking about reducing the heal rate, etc etc etc, all good to do. But people need to abandon the notion that downed state will be perma removed in competitive play: while it is of course possible, it would be highly unlikely, to the point where I would say there exists just as much a chance for ANET to remove downed state from competitive play as there is of them removing stealth. It's just not going to happen.

My advice is simply this: if downed state offends someone so strongly, they should just play a different game. I tell the same thing to people wishing GW2 had aggro tables in PvE, with true Tanks and Healers. This isn't the right game for them.

If u actually read my post ull see I said to change all revive skills and traits to allow players to increase their aly's self rez speed which would still be useful but not at carry lv like al lot of downstate machanics are these days.I'm sry I proposed a small nerf to ur carry wars 2 mechanic lmao

And if you read my post, you would see I addressed why your position is unrealistic.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Finishers can land on the dead corpse as soon as you kill them. Done. I agree with @Psycoprophet.8107, just change the downstate traits while in WvW and PvP to aid you in other ways.

[Mauzi.5892]

New change:Downstate remains, but doing damage while downed depletes your HP even further.Let's face it, if you are downed you lost the battle and you should be dead. End of story. The ONLY reason downed even exists is because gw2 has no resurrect skills like other mmo's do, so they allow you to be in this semi-dead state to get ressed. Which is totally fine.

In a 1vs1 scenario you can try to rush your 1vs1 and hope you get him too, while you are downed.In an outnumbered scenario you force your teammate to either res or deal dmg to the opponent. Even more so, if you decide to do dmg while downed, as it gets you more and more towards your permanent death.

Only manual res possible by allies (at a slower rate that it is now)

NO more rally! <---- THIS is the game breaking factor right now. You can outskill and outplay anyone, only so they hit some random passing by getting oneshotted and rally again. This is very unsatisfying gameplay, as you might have fought better than your opponent, but still lost due to some random circumstances, which happen way too often.

Like this you still retain the option to resurrect allies, without causing frustration or being a unfair mechanic.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

@"Farout.8207" said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Why didn't you finish off that player by using your Finisher? Down state means that you will have a small window of opportunity to kill player by using your Finisher, but also that you need to avoid being downed yourself from countermeasure (downed skills). If you can't use your Finisher, then at least continue to damage them with poison or any other condition until they will be dead. You will not get the big kill (lootbag), but can then at least kill those other trying to rezz.

Another issue is that those player rezzing are easy targets as they can not use any other skills while rezzing (skills need to be activated before rezzing). Use direct damage skill to interrupt downed player (from wiki) and interrupt live player that are starting to rezz.

There are counter measure to handle these kind of cases already in game so that thing about "bad player" is more that you haven't learned to actually make use of those. Just look that the list of traits, skills, runes and sigil that you can use to prevent somebody to successfully rez on gw2 wiki.

[Kovu.7560]

Just remove rallying in competitive play. I actually feel players investing in tools that allow them to be more effective at reviving people could be viable, there are pros and cons to standing over a player and pressing 'f' in the middle of a fight while taking cleave damage. My ranger can do it with SnR sometimes (the skill is super buggy), but my necro will just die if I use them to revive downed players. And my thief? Well, if I have SR on my bar unused you can have it, but you're otherwise on your own, that toon is full glass. Honestly, downstate just delays you from getting back into the fight by not allowing you to instantly be able to respawn.

People will hate me for saying this, but I feel downstate isn't in a bad place at the moment. It's just the rallying component that bothers me.

~ Kovu

[Shroud.2307]

@Kovu.7560 said:Just remove rallying in competitive play. I actually feel players investing in tools that allow them to be more effective at reviving people could be viable, there are pros and cons to standing over a player and pressing 'f' in the middle of a fight while taking cleave damage. My ranger can do it with SnR sometimes (the skill is super buggy), but my necro will just die if I use them to revive downed players. And my thief? Well, if I have SR on my bar unused you can have it, but you're otherwise on your own, that toon is full glass. Honestly, downstate just delays you from getting back into the fight by not allowing you to instantly be able to respawn.

People will hate me for saying this, but I feel downstate isn't in a bad place at the moment. It's just the rallying component that bothers me.

~ Kovu

I still think downed state should exist but needs to be adjusted so it's less of a carry mechanic. I am in no way convinced that having it removed completely would create a better experience despite what people say. There are too many ways to be obnoxious with massive spike damage builds that risk very little in doing so. Removing downed state does not suddenly mean everyone who's a bad player will be punished for playing badly.

Not saying this directly to you, btw. More so the entire thread while also agreeing that it's not so bad as is. I can succeed in outnumbered fights just fine and I haven't noticed any difference in the effectiveness of reviving someone in those fights.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Mauzi.5892 said:Let's face it, if you are downed you lost the battle and you should be dead. End of story.Which is the most common misconception, since its false. If you are downed, you're not dead yet so its not the end of the story.

[Farout.8207]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Farout.8207" said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Complains thats downstate rewards bad players

-

wins the fight when getting up from downstate.

You literally described what makes GW2 combat

good

and

superior to most other MMOs

. It's the core of WvW teamplay. Did it "reward" the 3 in a 1v3? Yeah. Sure.

But it was a 1v3 and you say you would have won solo otherwise

.

Versus 3 players

. Call them bad, I call it teamplay to weigh up for their personal skill. Not everyone can be an amazing 1v10 roflstomping PvP champion. WvW rewards teamplay over everything else. And you

still

won... because teamplay. You got reinforcements. Your allies came to fight with you. And like magic you won that. Yet you still complain that it's the worst of the worst.

I didn't win the fight, I died. However, two of my allies stopped the camp from flipping. The point is I would have won solo, against these bad player, if not for down state. Maybe you're a bad player yourself, I don't know. I do know downstate is for scrubs.

[Farout.8207]

@ShadowCatz.8437 said:

@"Farout.8207" said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Why didn't you finish off that player by using your Finisher? Down state means that you will have a small window of opportunity to kill player by using your Finisher, but also that you need to avoid being downed yourself from countermeasure (downed skills). If you can't use your Finisher, then at least continue to damage them with poison or any other condition until they will be dead. You will not get the big kill (lootbag), but can then at least kill those other trying to rezz.

Another issue is that those player rezzing are easy targets as they can not use any other skills while rezzing (skills need to be activated before rezzing). Use direct damage skill to interrupt downed player (from wiki) and interrupt live player that are starting to rezz.

There are counter measure to handle these kind of cases already in game so that thing about "bad player" is more that you haven't learned to actually make use of those. Just look that the list of traits, skills, runes and sigil that you can use to prevent somebody to successfully rez on gw2 wiki.

I wasn't on the forums over the weekend but will go ahead and respond now. I've been playing this game for eight years so I fully understand the mechanics. My problem was the two rezzers could rez faster than I could stomp or cleave. Not to mention, being in the stomp animation is a dangerous place for the outnumbered fighter. If I would have had a team mate that could peel the enemy off the downed I could have gotten the stomp easily, but it was just me vs three. The point of my post was that downstate rewards the bigger group and punishes the outnumbered fighter. I'd be ok with having a downstate, prefer not to but I'd be ok, if they greatly increased the time it takes to rez the downed, or greatly reduced the time it takes to stomp. The fact that two people can rez a friend faster than it takes for the stomp animation to complete is a really bad design. If stomping was basically instantaneous I'd be ok with it but it takes so long right now and you're at an increased risk during the entire animation.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Complains thats downstate rewards bad players

-

wins the fight when getting up from downstate.

You literally described what makes GW2 combat

good

and

superior to most other MMOs

. It's the core of WvW teamplay. Did it "reward" the 3 in a 1v3? Yeah. Sure.

But it was a 1v3 and you say you would have won solo otherwise

.

Versus 3 players

. Call them bad, I call it teamplay to weigh up for their personal skill. Not everyone can be an amazing 1v10 roflstomping PvP champion. WvW rewards teamplay over everything else. And you

still

won... because teamplay. You got reinforcements. Your allies came to fight with you. And like magic you won that. Yet you still complain that it's the worst of the worst.

I didn't win the fight, I died. However, two of my allies stopped the camp from flipping. The point is I would have won solo, against these bad player, if not for down state. Maybe you're a bad player yourself, I don't know. I do know downstate is for scrubs.

"We ultimately won the fight"

-

apparently didnt win the fight

I dont know about you, but I bet if they where that bad, someone could have won it solo anyway. Maybe not you, maybe not me, but someone could have.

[Farout.8207]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Complains thats downstate rewards bad players

-

wins the fight when getting up from downstate.

You literally described what makes GW2 combat

good

and

superior to most other MMOs

. It's the core of WvW teamplay. Did it "reward" the 3 in a 1v3? Yeah. Sure.

But it was a 1v3 and you say you would have won solo otherwise

.

Versus 3 players

. Call them bad, I call it teamplay to weigh up for their personal skill. Not everyone can be an amazing 1v10 roflstomping PvP champion. WvW rewards teamplay over everything else. And you

still

won... because teamplay. You got reinforcements. Your allies came to fight with you. And like magic you won that. Yet you still complain that it's the worst of the worst.

I didn't win the fight, I died. However, two of my allies stopped the camp from flipping. The point is I would have won solo, against these bad player, if not for down state. Maybe you're a bad player yourself, I don't know. I do know downstate is for scrubs.

"We ultimately won the fight"

-

apparently didnt win the fight

I dont know about you, but I bet if they where that bad, someone could have won it solo anyway. Maybe not you, maybe not me, but someone could have.

There are definitely better players than I am, I fight them all the time. Some of those better players may have won that fight, I didn't/couldn't because of the downstate mechanic. You're starting to seem like the type that doesn't really add anything substantial to the conversation, but just likes to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Make stomp uninterruptible, fixed.

[Farout.8207]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Make stomp uninterruptible, fixed.

I'd be happy if they made the old quickness stomp baseline.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Farout.8207 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Make stomp uninterruptible, fixed.

I'd be happy if they made the old quickness stomp baseline.

No! This would heavily impact my downstate focused build.

D:

[Farout.8207]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Farout.8207 said:I'd be happy if they made the old quickness stomp baseline.

No! This would heavily impact my downstate focused build.

D:

Death's Embrace trait plus a Bowl of Fire Salsa would make for a pretty OP downstate Necro. I'm stealing your idea. If you can't beat em, join em. :)

[Dawdler.8521]

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Complains thats downstate rewards bad players

-

wins the fight when getting up from downstate.

You literally described what makes GW2 combat

good

and

superior to most other MMOs

. It's the core of WvW teamplay. Did it "reward" the 3 in a 1v3? Yeah. Sure.

But it was a 1v3 and you say you would have won solo otherwise

.

Versus 3 players

. Call them bad, I call it teamplay to weigh up for their personal skill. Not everyone can be an amazing 1v10 roflstomping PvP champion. WvW rewards teamplay over everything else. And you

still

won... because teamplay. You got reinforcements. Your allies came to fight with you. And like magic you won that. Yet you still complain that it's the worst of the worst.

I didn't win the fight, I died. However, two of my allies stopped the camp from flipping. The point is I would have won solo, against these bad player, if not for down state. Maybe you're a bad player yourself, I don't know. I do know downstate is for scrubs.

"We ultimately won the fight"

-

apparently didnt win the fight

I dont know about you, but I bet if they where that bad, someone could have won it solo anyway. Maybe not you, maybe not me, but someone could have.

There are definitely better players than I am, I fight them all the time. Some of those better players may have won that fight, I didn't/couldn't because of the downstate mechanic. You're starting to seem like the type that doesn't really add anything substantial to the conversation, but just likes to argue for the sake of arguing.There was nothing substantial here to begin with, every thread on the subject always degenerate into a few people yelling delete downstate over and over. It's been 8 years. This isnt the first time.

[anduriell.6280]

Just remove the kitten Revive action while in combat. The game will become more healthy, you can still use your finishers, they don't need to change anything else in game, runes and traits which benefit reviving speed will benefit the reviving skills instead, and reviving skills may see some propper use.

I'd say it's a win win

[Farout.8207]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Complains thats downstate rewards bad players

-

wins the fight when getting up from downstate.

You literally described what makes GW2 combat

good

and

superior to most other MMOs

. It's the core of WvW teamplay. Did it "reward" the 3 in a 1v3? Yeah. Sure.

But it was a 1v3 and you say you would have won solo otherwise

.

Versus 3 players

. Call them bad, I call it teamplay to weigh up for their personal skill. Not everyone can be an amazing 1v10 roflstomping PvP champion. WvW rewards teamplay over everything else. And you

still

won... because teamplay. You got reinforcements. Your allies came to fight with you. And like magic you won that. Yet you still complain that it's the worst of the worst.

I didn't win the fight, I died. However, two of my allies stopped the camp from flipping. The point is I would have won solo, against these bad player, if not for down state. Maybe you're a bad player yourself, I don't know. I do know downstate is for scrubs.

"We ultimately won the fight"

-

apparently didnt win the fight

I dont know about you, but I bet if they where that bad, someone could have won it solo anyway. Maybe not you, maybe not me, but someone could have.

There are definitely better players than I am, I fight them all the time. Some of those better players may have won that fight, I didn't/couldn't because of the downstate mechanic. You're starting to seem like the type that doesn't really add anything substantial to the conversation, but just likes to argue for the sake of arguing.There was nothing substantial here to begin with, every thread on the subject always degenerate into a few people yelling delete downstate over and over. It's been 8 years. This isnt the first time.

Ok, I'm done here and I'll even let you have the last post so you can win the forum battle, but you still won't change my mind. Downstate is not a healthy component in my opinion and the idea in the original post is terrible. We absolutely do not need to speed up revive time, if anything we need to slow it down.

[Shroud.2307]

Just had a thought. What if every class had one skill that instantly finishes targets?

Reaper: Executioner's Scythe, 3 targetsSoulbeast: Worldly Impact, 3 targetsDragonhunter: Dragon's Maw, 5 targetsElementalist: Churning Earth, 3 targetsChronomancer: Time Sink, 3 targetsRevenant: Jade Winds, 2 targets

Scrapper, Warrior, Daredevil already have instant finishers.

These are just some suggestions. Please don't "but having it on X skill makes no sense!" me. I was figuring the lower the cooldown the less players it should finish and vice versa and that each should be on a high cost skill that can be prevented rather than near instantly cast. Dragon's Maw might be a poor choice because it has a very low cast time but again, just some suggestions.

[Sobx.1758]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Farout.8207 said:I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Complains thats downstate rewards bad players

-

wins the fight when getting up from downstate.

You literally described what makes GW2 combat

good

and

superior to most other MMOs

. It's the core of WvW teamplay. Did it "reward" the 3 in a 1v3? Yeah. Sure.

But it was a 1v3 and you say you would have won solo otherwise

.

Versus 3 players

. Call them bad, I call it teamplay to weigh up for their personal skill. Not everyone can be an amazing 1v10 roflstomping PvP champion. WvW rewards teamplay over everything else. And you

still

won... because teamplay. You got reinforcements. Your allies came to fight with you. And like magic you won that. Yet you still complain that it's the worst of the worst.

I didn't win the fight, I died. However, two of my allies stopped the camp from flipping. The point is I would have won solo, against these bad player, if not for down state. Maybe you're a bad player yourself, I don't know. I do know downstate is for scrubs.

"We ultimately won the fight"

-

apparently didnt win the fight

I dont know about you, but I bet if they where that bad, someone could have won it solo anyway. Maybe not you, maybe not me, but someone could have.

There are definitely better players than I am, I fight them all the time. Some of those better players may have won that fight, I didn't/couldn't because of the downstate mechanic. You're starting to seem like the type that doesn't really add anything substantial to the conversation, but just likes to argue for the sake of arguing.There was nothing substantial here to begin with, every thread on the subject always degenerate into a few people yelling delete downstate over and over. It's been 8 years. This isnt the first time.

....and on the other side people scared of losing their zerg-friendly training wheels, claiming that downstate totally doesn't support outnumbering side more, but after they understand (hopefully) they're wrong they say that's not what they wanted to discuss anyways. Always such a fun thread. :D