can we also cut powercreep on AoEs?

[Lighter.5631]

tanks CMC, much heart

[anduriell.6280]

All the condition skills are Aoe, you hit a button and you don't need even to face the enemy. Totally big brain in there.The best are the ones which apply a bunch of conditions on you when you hit them. That is the most high function brain design i have seen in a very long time.

[Tayga.3192]

Take a look at Mesmer Feedback.Then look at guard symbols.

[Buran.3796]

@Tayga.3192 said:Take a look at Mesmer Feedback.Then look at guard symbols.

Compared to a mesmer Guard has low mobility and weak HP. The FB healings were serverly nerfed at the beguining of March; as result of that Firebrand must chose to either go mender to have sustain (greatly reducing their damage), sage for hybrid damage but halving the sustain, or to use carrion going full glass cannon with no heals. Is a very stat intensive class. Core Guardian is easier to play but teir support is much more limited.

Also, large AoE presure made by half of the classes seems fair due the other half seens to rely in stealth and burst->disengage. You reap what you sow.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Buran.3796" said:snip

What are you even talking about? I was just asking to compare https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feedback with guard symbols lol.

[Buran.3796]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:snip

What are you even talking about? I was just asking to compare

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feedback

with guard symbols lol.

I saw the wiki entry before my post, what should be compared? Feedback seems more related to Wall of Reflection or Sanctuary, both are consecrations, both are utilities, most of the symbols used by Guardians are weapon based skills...

[Tayga.3192]

@Buran.3796 said:I saw the wiki entry before my post, what should be compared? Feedback seems more related to Wall of Reflection or Sanctuary, both are consecrations, both are utilities, most of the symbols used by Guardians are weapon based skills...

Let's compare wall of reflection with feedback.

Wall of reflection is better in any way shape or form. Feedback lacks cd reduction trait. WoR basically has higher uptime.

WoR is a light field (aoe cleanses btw) while feedback is an ethereal field (1 confusion per projectile finisher :)).

[Buran.3796]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Buran.3796 said:I saw the wiki entry before my post, what should be compared? Feedback seems more related to Wall of Reflection or Sanctuary, both are consecrations, both are utilities, most of the symbols used by Guardians are weapon based skills...

Let's compare wall of reflection with feedback.

Wall of reflection is better in any way shape or form. Feedback lacks cd reduction trait. WoR basically has higher uptime.

WoR is a light field (aoe cleanses btw) while feedback is an ethereal field (1 confusion per projectile finisher :)).

I agree entirely, that's a fair comparison. I wouldn't have any problem at ANet buffing Feedback, specially at WvW, because outside some instanced content is at WvW where Wall of Reflection had more presence.

[Tayga.3192]

@Buran.3796 said:I agree entirely, that's a fair comparison. I wouldn't have any problem at ANet buffing Feedback, specially at WvW, because outside some instanced content is at WvW where Wall of Reflection had more presence.

I think they should add glamour trait back.

[Math.5123]

@Tayga.3192 said:Take a look at Mesmer Feedback.Then look at guard symbols.

Why would you compare guardians main source of weapon skill damage to a mesmer utility?

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Buran.3796 said:I saw the wiki entry before my post, what should be compared? Feedback seems more related to Wall of Reflection or Sanctuary, both are consecrations, both are utilities, most of the symbols used by Guardians are weapon based skills...

Let's compare wall of reflection with feedback.

Wall of reflection is better in any way shape or form. Feedback lacks cd reduction trait. WoR basically has higher uptime.

WoR is a light field (aoe cleanses btw) while feedback is an ethereal field (1 confusion per projectile finisher :)).

This is a better comparison. But you also forgot to mention feedback revive tick, the much bigger aoe and the fact that feedback is accessable via traits while the former isn't. Wall of reflection only sees play in wvw, so complaining about it doesn't really help your argument

[Tayga.3192]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:This is a better comparison. But you also forgot to mention feedback revive tick, the much bigger aoe and the fact that feedback is accessable via traits while the former isn't. Wall of reflection only sees play in wvw, so complaining about it doesn't really help your argument

I'd MUCH rather Medic's Feedback to not be as strong and passive as it is right now, I agree you on that. They should replace that trait with a proper glamour trait.

I think both WoR and Feedback are bad, WoR being the better one. They are too limited and boring.

Small note: I was trying to compare glamours with consecrations, not weapon symbols lol. Big brain from me.

[mortrialus.3062]

There is no power creep. Post MegaBalance we are in full on Power Decay. Damage was way higher across the board even in 2012-2015. Damage has never, ever, been lower for everyone. That is a fact.

[Lighter.5631]

if they are want to bringg power/sustain to old day levels and cut power creep.why not cut power creep on aoes, pre-hot there isn't as much aoe spam as now adays

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@mortrialus.3062 said:There is no power creep. Post MegaBalance we are in full on Power Decay. Damage was way higher across the board even in 2012-2015. Damage has never, ever, been lower for everyone. That is a fact.

Power creep isnt just related to damage. Its also caused by giving skills/traits too many effects and passives.

[Vancho.8750]

I think the lingering AoEs is the issue, the AoEs that are one time are Okish. In one situation you dodge you dont get hit all is well in the other you dodge some of the damage doesn't hit you but you are still in the AoE circle and you still get hit anyway and if it has cripple on it is gg for you. I think Lingering AoEs should be channeled like Meteor shower or Barrage so you can interrupt it.

[mistsim.2748]

No...because control point. We need different game modes where aoe's won't be as impactful. I don't know why so many players are missing this crucial point - it's the game mode that's trash. This has always been the case.

GW2 should have been balanced (separately) around two main game modes: 2v2/3v3 deathmatch, and 15v15/20v20 gvgs. It's where players always showed the most interest (different camps obviously). Control point was always such trash to me, and they could never balance around it properly.

[Lighter.5631]

@mistsim.2748 said:No...because control point. We need different game modes where aoe's won't be as impactful. I don't know why so many players are missing this crucial point - it's the game mode that's trash. This has always been the case.

GW2 should have been balanced (separately) around two main game modes: 2v2/3v3 deathmatch, and 15v15/20v20 gvgs. It's where players always showed the most interest (different camps obviously). Control point was always such trash to me, and they could never balance around it properly.

we had team death match and stronghold, I'm pretty sure it's not the game mode. definitely no interest in 20v20, let alone watching one, what a hot mess..

[mistsim.2748]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:No...because control point. We need different game modes where aoe's won't be as impactful. I don't know why so many players are missing this crucial point - it's the game mode that's trash. This has always been the case.

GW2 should have been balanced (separately) around two main game modes: 2v2/3v3 deathmatch, and 15v15/20v20 gvgs. It's where players always showed the most interest (different camps obviously). Control point was always such trash to me, and they could never balance around it properly.

we had team death match and stronghold, I'm pretty sure it's not the game mode. definitely no interest in 20v20, let alone watching one, what a hot mess..

Stronghold was a blatant mismanagement of resources and it was dead-on-arrival. They didn't even test it with a focus group.

The zerg fights have their own mechanics and roles, and a lot of players have been and are interested in it. This has its own different appeal, a meta, and a following. Best of all, it arose organically from player interest.

5v5 has been like beating a dead horse. For 8 years.

Small scale deathmatch is what this game does well and it should be the pillar for balancing everything.

[Axl.8924]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:There is no power creep. Post MegaBalance we are in full on Power Decay. Damage was way higher across the board even in 2012-2015. Damage has never, ever, been lower for everyone. That is a fact.

Power creep isnt just related to damage. Its also caused by giving skills/traits too many effects and passives.

They would need to be overhauled.

Some aoes nerfing them could possibly break them, and I'm not sure the numbers with guardians since I'm fairly new.

Aoes probably do need to be touched, because they are pretty toxic and make the game unfun.

[ArthurDent.9538]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Take a look at Mesmer Feedback.Then look at guard symbols.

Why would you compare guardians main source of

weapon skill damage

to a mesmer utility?

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Buran.3796 said:I saw the wiki entry before my post, what should be compared? Feedback seems more related to Wall of Reflection or Sanctuary, both are consecrations, both are utilities, most of the symbols used by Guardians are weapon based skills...

Let's compare wall of reflection with feedback.

Wall of reflection is better in any way shape or form. Feedback lacks cd reduction trait. WoR basically has higher uptime.

WoR is a light field (aoe cleanses btw) while feedback is an ethereal field (1 confusion per projectile finisher :)).

This is a better comparison. But you also forgot to mention feedback revive tick, the much bigger aoe and the fact that feedback is accessable via traits while the former isn't. Wall of reflection only sees play in wvw, so complaining about it doesn't really help your argument

You forgot the biggest one imo which is feedback is instant cast while WoR has a cast time (a small one). This let's feedback be used while cc'd or in the middle of any other cast and also means the mesmer can reflexively block incoming projectiles where as the guard has to use it their reflect preemptively.

[Tayga.3192]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:You forgot the biggest one imo which is feedback is instant cast while WoR has a cast time (a small one). This let's feedback be used while cc'd or in the middle of any other cast and also means the mesmer can reflexively block incoming projectiles where as the guard has to use it their reflect preemptively.

We can argue longer duration makes up for this since you use both of them in wvw where personal reflexes are less important. WoR is, again, a light field which is way better than ethereal fields.

I mean, we already know WoR sees way more play than Feedback does.

[Bast.7253]

Tempest is my biggest complaint on this. But I don't really see firebrands that often anymore. Tempest, at least lightning overload, is far too punishing and covers too large of an area. If you're running support, the damage from it might not be as deadly, but the interrupt spam in a team fight and inability to stand on the node can be quite annoying.

The other issue is Mallyx.

I can't really think of any other aoe right now. Holo is annoying, but they're not as threatening with the radius reduction on shockwave, at least in team fights.

I'm sure there are a number of other builds that could be quite annoying, but in terms of the current meta I'd say these are the biggest offenders.

[Lighter.5631]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Tempest is my biggest complaint on this. But I don't really see firebrands that often anymore. Tempest, at least lightning overload, is far too punishing and covers too large of an area. If you're running support, the damage from it might not be as deadly, but the interrupt spam in a team fight and inability to stand on the node can be quite annoying.

The other issue is Mallyx.

I can't really think of any other aoe right now. Holo is annoying, but they're not as threatening with the radius reduction on shockwave, at least in team fights.

I'm sure there are a number of other builds that could be quite annoying, but in terms of the current meta I'd say these are the biggest offenders.

i agree, tempest skill aoe coverage is too great and unhealthy at the same time, condition herald, ofc symbol guardian ( yes that's common)holo might be less annoying now, but mortar field spam still there and ofc necro

[Bast.7253]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Tempest is my biggest complaint on this. But I don't really see firebrands that often anymore. Tempest, at least lightning overload, is far too punishing and covers too large of an area. If you're running support, the damage from it might not be as deadly, but the interrupt spam in a team fight and inability to stand on the node can be quite annoying.

The other issue is Mallyx.

I can't really think of any other aoe right now. Holo is annoying, but they're not as threatening with the radius reduction on shockwave, at least in team fights.

I'm sure there are a number of other builds that could be quite annoying, but in terms of the current meta I'd say these are the biggest offenders.

i agree, tempest skill aoe coverage is too great and unhealthy at the same time, condition herald, ofc symbol guardian ( yes that's common)holo might be less annoying now, but mortar field spam still there and ofc necro

I forgot about mortars. It does feel like they do a bit too much damage. I know they're an "elite" skill, but I feel like it should be more about the utility than having spammable hard-hitting aoe from a long range.

[Daishi.6027]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:No...because control point. We need different game modes where aoe's won't be as impactful. I don't know why so many players are missing this crucial point - it's the game mode that's trash. This has always been the case.

GW2 should have been balanced (separately) around two main game modes: 2v2/3v3 deathmatch, and 15v15/20v20 gvgs. It's where players always showed the most interest (different camps obviously). Control point was always such trash to me, and they could never balance around it properly.

we had team death match and stronghold, I'm pretty sure it's not the game mode. definitely no interest in 20v20, let alone watching one, what a hot mess..

5v5 death match simply with the balance they already designed around conquest is hardly what anyone means when they bring up death match. That is a lazily slapped together thing so A-net creates so can say they tried it. (I’d also argue there is a significant difference between 2v2 and 3v3 vs 5v5 even with a proper balance scale.)

Stronghold was their attempt to add lanes while clearly not understanding what actually makes lanes fun, and in a lot of way it just felt like conquest with more steps. team fights in mid And at summons definitely felt similar.

Also GvG is more of a WvW thing, but it’s not like conquest pulls in much new viewership, while smaller scale fights would be much easier to distinguish what’s going on to the uninitiated.