cRev has a low skill floor.

[mistsim.2748]

spam cc's, rotate through defensive abilities, make a large impact. i learned the rotations in a few hours, and I was winning games in Plat 2 (which I worked hard for on my condi Soulbeast build, lel).

This build does a good amount of aoe damage passively. It's utterly brainless.

I can stunlock people and guarantee kills with 3 hard CC's.

I think there is some massive misunderstanding that only "good players" play this build. It actually has an exceptionally low skill floor. It also has a high ceiling, so good players can be gods on cRevs. they are rewarded because there are a number of important rotations that need to be multitasked.

not shaving this monster will make 3's dumb. annoying oversight, but I guess expected from ANet.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"mistsim.2748" said:spam cc's, rotate through defensive abilities, make a large impact. i learned the rotations in a few hours, and I was winning games in Plat 2 (which I worked hard for on my condi Soulbeast build, lel).

This build does a good amount of aoe damage passively. It's utterly brainless.

I can stunlock people and guarantee kills with 3 hard CC's.

I think there is some massive misunderstanding that only "good players" play this build. It actually has an exceptionally low skill floor. It also has a high ceiling, so good players can be gods on cRevs. they are rewarded because there are a number of important rotations that need to be multitasked.

not shaving this monster will make 3's dumb. annoying oversight, but I guess expected from ANet.

This may be true but almost all classes these days have a low skill floor, u could say gw2 pvp itself has a low skill floor as it's been so dumbed down and filled with carry builds mechanics, crev is hardly the only one.

[Kuma.1503]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"mistsim.2748" said:spam cc's, rotate through defensive abilities, make a large impact. i learned the rotations in a few hours, and I was winning games in Plat 2 (which I worked hard for on my condi Soulbeast build, lel).

This build does a good amount of aoe damage passively. It's utterly brainless.

I can stunlock people and guarantee kills with 3 hard CC's.

I think there is some massive misunderstanding that only "good players" play this build. It actually has an exceptionally low skill floor. It also has a high ceiling, so good players can be gods on cRevs. they are rewarded because there are a number of important rotations that need to be multitasked.

not shaving this monster will make 3's dumb. annoying oversight, but I guess expected from ANet.

This may be true but almost all classes these days have a low skill floor, u could say gw2 pvp itself has a low skill floor as it's been so dumbed down and filled with carry builds mechanics, crev is hardly the only one.

This. Very few classes in this game have a high skill floor, but nearly all of them have a sizable skill cap.

It's not hard to pick up 90% of classes and play them at your current elo in about a day.

[mistsim.2748]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"mistsim.2748" said:spam cc's, rotate through defensive abilities, make a large impact. i learned the rotations in a few hours, and I was winning games in Plat 2 (which I worked hard for on my condi Soulbeast build, lel).

This build does a good amount of aoe damage passively. It's utterly brainless.

I can stunlock people and guarantee kills with 3 hard CC's.

I think there is some massive misunderstanding that only "good players" play this build. It actually has an exceptionally low skill floor. It also has a high ceiling, so good players can be gods on cRevs. they are rewarded because there are a number of important rotations that need to be multitasked.

not shaving this monster will make 3's dumb. annoying oversight, but I guess expected from ANet.

This may be true but almost all classes these days have a low skill floor, u could say gw2 pvp itself has a low skill floor as it's been so dumbed down and filled with carry builds mechanics, crev is hardly the only one.

Ah, yes. This IS true, but many of these additional specs with a low skill floor don't perform NEARLY as well as the cRev. With the cRev, it's too easy to have a high impact.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

I actually can't get my head around Revenant. There are so few buttons I need to press, I feel like I'm missing something so I overcompensate. It just doesn't "flow" for me.

Having been primarily a Mesmer player since launch, which may explain why (running Sc/P Staff successfully for just about forever, you're always actively mitigating damage and/or actively casting).

[DeceiverX.8361]

Just as a heads up, "Skill Floor" means its performance when played at the worst (lowest) level. Skill ceiling is the efficacy something has when played as best as possible.

You mean it has a high skill floor; it performs highly even when played at its lowest level.

[mistsim.2748]

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Just as a heads up, "Skill Floor" means its performance when played at the worst (lowest) level. Skill ceiling is the efficacy something has when played as best as possible.

You mean it has a high skill floor; it performs highly even when played at its lowest level.

easy to learn and be very effective.hard to master, but then it's insanely effective.

So however that is said.

[Quadox.7834]

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Just as a heads up, "Skill Floor" means its performance when played at the worst (lowest) level. Skill ceiling is the efficacy something has when played as best as possible.

You mean it has a high skill floor; it performs highly even when played at its lowest level.

no it means req> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

Just as a heads up, "Skill Floor" means its performance when played at the worst (lowest) level. Skill ceiling is the efficacy something has when played as best as possible.

You mean it has a high skill floor; it performs highly even when played at its lowest level.

nah skillfoor is the required skill to play it effectively. doesn't require much skill or knowledge to be reasonably effective -> low skill floor

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Every viable condi build has a low skill floor.

Condi skills are designed with too many instant casts, too many free passive procs, and too many AoEs. They are objectively easy to play.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Just as a heads up, "Skill Floor" means its performance when played at the worst (lowest) level. Skill ceiling is the efficacy something has when played as best as possible.

You mean it has a high skill floor; it performs highly even when played at its lowest level.

easy to learn and be very effective.hard to master, but then it's insanely effective.

So however that is said.

High skill floor, high skill ceiling.

Thief for example tends to be low skill floor, high skill ceiling (debatable right now with the balance shakeup though). Low performance at beginning, High performance when mastered.

Usually when something is high in skill floor and skill ceiling it means it's overtuned because it's never appropriately-powerful at various levels of skill.

[Abelisk.5148]

The way my paw paw taught me terminology low skill floor = easy to play, which means it's easy to be effective. You're trying to reach the floor, and if it's low, there's less effort required to get to it.

I was dueling a condi Herald as power Mirage and they blew so many cooldowns and still managed to wittle me down to near-death. Keep in mind I did my best to dodge every attack, this person used all their skills at the wrong time but the sheer size of AoEs and CCs, multiple sustain tools makes this an easy build to play. This was before switching to Elusive Mind so hopefully that makes it a lot easier.

[mistsim.2748]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Every viable condi build has a low skill floor.

Condi skills are designed with too many instant casts, too many free passive procs, and too many AoEs. They are objectively easy to play.

yeah, but Malyx does a whole bunch of other things that makes it way too strong. the i-frames, the blocks, the boon rips, hard cc's. so it's fairly easy to learn and be very effective.

[Xca.9721]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Every viable condi build has a low skill floor.

Condi skills are designed with too many instant casts, too many free passive procs, and too many AoEs. They are objectively easy to play.

yeah, but Malyx does a whole bunch of other things that makes it way too strong. the i-frames, the blocks, the boon rips, hard cc's. so it's fairly easy to learn and be very effective.

mallyx has invuln frames and blocks? where?

[Renny.6571]

all condi build have low skill everything

[Kulvar.1239]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:The way my paw paw taught me terminology low skill floor = easy to play, which means it's easy to be effective. You're trying to reach the floor, and if it's low, there's less effort required to get to it.

I was dueling a condi Herald as power Mirage and they blew so many cooldowns and still managed to wittle me down to near-death. Keep in mind I did my best to dodge every attack, this person used all their skills at the wrong time but the sheer size of AoEs and CCs, multiple sustain tools makes this an easy build to play. This was before switching to Elusive Mind so hopefully that makes it a lot easier.

Skill floor = How the class is when played badlySkill ceiling = How the class is when played well

Low skill floor = The class is terrible when you don't know how to play itHigh skill floor = The class is good even if you don't know how to play itLow skill ceiling = The class is bad even when played wellHigh skill ceiling = The class is quite powerful when played well

Usually you want noobs playing high skill floor classes (Warrior BS) and skilled people playing high skill ceiling classes (Chronotank, Quickbrand).

[Widmo.3186]

I strongly disagree. In my opinion rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly :)

[phokus.8934]

OP is correct in saying cRev has a low skill floor but also has a low skill ceiling.

[Quadox.7834]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Just as a heads up, "Skill Floor" means its performance when played at the worst (lowest) level. Skill ceiling is the efficacy something has when played as best as possible.

You mean it has a high skill floor; it performs highly even when played at its lowest level.

easy to learn and be very effective.hard to master, but then it's insanely effective.

So however that is said.

High skill floor, high skill ceiling.

Thief for example tends to be low skill floor, high skill ceiling (debatable right now with the balance shakeup though). Low performance at beginning, High performance when mastered.

Usually when something is high in skill floor and skill ceiling it means it's overtuned because it's never appropriately-powerful at various levels of skill.

as i tried to say before, that's not what skill floor means

[mistsim.2748]

@Xca.9721 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Every viable condi build has a low skill floor.

Condi skills are designed with too many instant casts, too many free passive procs, and too many AoEs. They are objectively easy to play.

yeah, but Malyx does a whole bunch of other things that makes it way too strong. the i-frames, the blocks, the boon rips, hard cc's. so it's fairly easy to learn and be very effective.

mallyx has invuln frames and blocks? where?

on sword/shield, aka the meta Malyx/Glint build.

[mistsim.2748]

@Widmo.3186 said:I strongly disagree. In my opinion rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly :)

lmfao. nice.

[Shao.7236]

If you think that it's strong right now, you should go WvW with it and see what it used to be.

Get all the dummies(TOP PROS KEK) saying that it was the most underpowered condi build in the game when I was the only one playing it with Boa when the game was bloated until the blanked nerf was applied and now they are all playing it now even after nerfs ALSO including the people complaining now, I'm so glad I stopped CARING for it because Anet kept nerfing the wrong aspects of it rofl.

I just can't wait until they kill the entire legend before they actually nerf F2. It's already unfavorable on core now anyway since damage and transfer have been nerfed by 50%. Ironically Power Herald being the utter garbage it is will still be relevant because 95% of the playerbase fails to grasp the concept of this class altogether even at the lowest performance it's even been.

[Xca.9721]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Xca.9721 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Every viable condi build has a low skill floor.

Condi skills are designed with too many instant casts, too many free passive procs, and too many AoEs. They are objectively easy to play.

yeah, but Malyx does a whole bunch of other things that makes it way too strong. the i-frames, the blocks, the boon rips, hard cc's. so it's fairly easy to learn and be very effective.

mallyx has invuln frames and blocks? where?

on sword/shield, aka the meta Malyx/Glint build.

you could run the same with shiro instead of mallyx and have the same amount of blocks/evades from weaopons (no invuln frames, dont know where u get that from)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Power shiro- high skill floor/high skill ceiling.Crev/renegade- low skill floor/low skill cieling.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:The way my paw paw taught me terminology low skill floor = easy to play, which means it's easy to be effective. You're trying to reach the floor, and if it's low, there's less effort required to get to it.

I was dueling a condi Herald as power Mirage and they blew so many cooldowns and still managed to wittle me down to near-death. Keep in mind I did my best to dodge every attack, this person used all their skills at the wrong time but the sheer size of AoEs and CCs, multiple sustain tools makes this an easy build to play. This was before switching to Elusive Mind so hopefully that makes it a lot easier.

Skill floor = How the class is when played badlySkill ceiling = How the class is when played well

Low skill floor = The class is terrible when you don't know how to play itHigh skill floor = The class is good even if you don't know how to play itLow skill ceiling = The class is bad even when played wellHigh skill ceiling = The class is quite powerful when played well

Usually you want noobs playing high skill floor classes (Warrior BS) and skilled people playing high skill ceiling classes (Chronotank, Quickbrand).

No.

A low skill floor means the entry to be effective is LOW, meaning an inexperienced player can be effective on it. A high ceiling means it requires lots of skill to play at it's limits. Where you are getting the opposite from I have no idea, maybe you should google "low skill floor meaning".

Here, let me do it for you:

"This brings us to skill floors. A skill floor is the counterpart to a skill ceiling. A skill ceiling is the level of play that’s possible with training and mastery. A skill floor is a way of describing how difficult it is to begin the process of mastery. For example, playing Widowmaker in Overwatch isn’t easy if you don’t have a background in other FPS titles. In order to even be relevant with her, you need to have exceptional aim and positioning. The skill floor for Widowmaker, in other words, is very high — if you want to be somewhat competent, you need to have mastered a variety of game mechanics."

"Skill floors, to start, are the bare minimum amount of skill with that game (or sub-category within the game, see class shooters ala TF2) to participate in the game effectively. This is the status quo that the developers have modeled the game around, and if you’re not good enough to meet this floor you’re going to have a hard time. This is the developers saying “you must be this tall to ride this ride.”

"The floor tells us how easy it is to get going with the task. A low floor means it’s easy for everyone to get on board. Tic-Tac-Toe is an example of a game with a low floor. It’s easy to understand and even the youngest of kids can start playing pretty quickly. A low floor is inviting. Chess has a high floor – evidenced by how many college-educated adults I’ve met who cannot play. Chess’s floor appears so high that they just never got going. A high floor is a barrier."

Do I need to go on?

[Kulvar.1239]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:The way my paw paw taught me terminology low skill floor = easy to play, which means it's easy to be effective. You're trying to reach the floor, and if it's low, there's less effort required to get to it.

I was dueling a condi Herald as power Mirage and they blew so many cooldowns and still managed to wittle me down to near-death. Keep in mind I did my best to dodge every attack, this person used all their skills at the wrong time but the sheer size of AoEs and CCs, multiple sustain tools makes this an easy build to play. This was before switching to Elusive Mind so hopefully that makes it a lot easier.

Skill floor = How the class is when played badlySkill ceiling = How the class is when played well

Low skill floor = The class is terrible when you don't know how to play itHigh skill floor = The class is good even if you don't know how to play itLow skill ceiling = The class is bad even when played wellHigh skill ceiling = The class is quite powerful when played well

Usually you want noobs playing high skill floor classes (Warrior BS) and skilled people playing high skill ceiling classes (Chronotank, Quickbrand).

No.

A low skill floor means the entry to be effective is LOW, meaning an inexperienced player can be effective on it. A high ceiling means it requires lots of skill to play at it's limits. Where you are getting the opposite from I have no idea, maybe you should google "low skill floor meaning".

Here, let me do it for you:

"This brings us to skill floors. A skill floor is the counterpart to a skill ceiling. A skill ceiling is the level of play that’s possible with training and mastery. A skill floor is a way of describing how difficult it is to begin the process of mastery. For example, playing Widowmaker in Overwatch isn’t easy if you don’t have a background in other FPS titles. In order to even be relevant with her, you need to have exceptional aim and positioning. The skill floor for Widowmaker, in other words, is very high — if you want to be somewhat competent, you need to have mastered a variety of game mechanics."

"Skill floors, to start, are the bare minimum amount of skill with that game (or sub-category within the game, see class shooters ala TF2) to participate in the game effectively. This is the status quo that the developers have modeled the game around, and if you’re not good enough to meet this floor you’re going to have a hard time. This is the developers saying “you must be this tall to ride this ride.”

"The floor tells us how easy it is to get going with the task. A low floor means it’s easy for everyone to get on board. Tic-Tac-Toe is an example of a game with a low floor. It’s easy to understand and even the youngest of kids can start playing pretty quickly. A low floor is inviting. Chess has a high floor – evidenced by how many college-educated adults I’ve met who cannot play. Chess’s floor appears so high that they just never got going. A high floor is a barrier."

Do I need to go on?

It seems there's a misunderstanding with two way of seeing things.Low/High + Skill floor/ceilingVSLow/High skill + Floor/Ceiling

Low/High + Skill floor/ceiling treat performance as fluctuating valuesLow/High skill + Floor/Ceiling treat performance as fixed threshold

In the mindset of Low/High + Skill floor/ceilingSkill floor is how the class perform without skill.Skill ceiling is how the class perform with top skill.If it's low, it perform poorly.If it's high, it perform well.

A low skill floor is a class that performs poorly without skill.A high skill floor is a class that performs well without skill.A low skill floor is a class that performs poorly with top skill.A high skill floor is a class that performs well with top skill.

In the mindset of Low/High skill + Floor/CeilingFloor is how much skill the class requires to start performing okay.Ceiling is how much skill the class requires to reach peak performance.If it's low, you don't need skill.If it's high, you need to be top skill.

A low skill floor is a class that is noob friendly.A high skill floor is a class that is noob unfriendly.A low skill floor is a class that is noob friendly.A high skill floor is a class that is noob unfriendly.

But the introduction of threshold come at a loss as it tells you nothing about how abysmally bad the class can be at low skill, or how far it can rise with top skill.