Elementalist : Class rework maybe?

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.-Tempest cannot share : stability or resistance or alacrity or share reduced dmg stance.....I don't see how it's the best support when there are scrapper-firebrand and even Herald doing their part in a different way

Then why is it played and is the go to spec for certain team comps? The way you make it sound it should never be picked over any not the other options you presented.

[Jekkt.6045]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.-Tempest cannot share : stability or resistance or alacrity or share reduced dmg stance.....I don't see how it's the best support when there are scrapper-firebrand and even Herald doing their part in a different way

Then why is it played and is the go to spec for certain team comps? The way you make it sound it should never be picked over any not the other options you presented.

sustained condi removal, some healing, protection, cc, battleres, probably more damage than firebrand?, mobility.

firebrand has more hard healing, or at least it used to be that way. tome skills are much stronger than overloads but have a much longer cooldown too. tempest is better at rotating from teamfight to teamfight compared to firebrand. it's well possible supports will switch back to firebrand with the unnerf of scourge shroud.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil

None of which saw sucess at the highest level of play. If you look at worlds, thief had 2 guardian had 1 in it across 6 teams, and warrior had 0. While the pro league had no thieves in season 1, 2 in season 2, no guardians in either, and 2 warriors in 2. They were not good. Warrior probably had the best performance over the entirety of HoT, but generally the 3 were in the same spot mesmer and warrior are right now.

-Tempest cannot share : stability or resistance or alacrity or share reduced dmg stance.....I don't see how it's the best support when there are scrapper-firebrand and even Herald doing their part in a different way

Actually frost aura reduces damage. And Shock and Magnet Aura both prove quite a bit of defense. It cant share resistance, but it can cleanse condis from allies repeatedly, which has the same effect most of the time. As for alacrity, no one but chrono can share that, and chrono has not been a playable support since .... Im not actually sure it ever was. Tempest is the best support because it provides the best benefits with the least drawbacks.

-They nerfed core ele and not tempest? I don't see how a core ele with focus could be such a threat to anybody up to this point, if you want to nerf the support spec..nerf the actual support spec?

Im fairly certain tempest uses obsidian flesh. Youre right that it is collateral damage though. I admit, Im not too hapy with it. But Obsidian flesh was always kind of an absurd skill.

[Jekkt.6045]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil

None of which saw sucess at the highest level of play. If you look at worlds, thief had 2 guardian had 1 in it across 6 teams, and warrior had 0. While the pro league had no thieves in season 1, 2 in season 2, no guardians in either, and 2 warriors in 2. They were not good. Warrior probably had the best performance over the entirety of HoT, but generally the 3 were in the same spot mesmer and warrior are right now.

you're wrong on that. condi berserker was very strong at the beginning of HoT and so was dragon hunter. in fact, they were so strong they got nerfed multiple times (dh), can't remember how much berserker was nerfed but that one fell out of meta for a different reason, condi rev. condi rev absolutely obliterated everything until it was nerfed. scrapper was extremely strong aswell, completely replacing every engi build because it was incredibly tanky, hitting 6k+ with marauder. tempest fell out of meta when teams started running double chrono, because why run tempest if you can run double chrono, have portal and nothing ever dies? and why would you run a thief if you can't kill anything anyway.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil

None of which saw sucess at the highest level of play. If you look at worlds, thief had 2 guardian had 1 in it across 6 teams, and warrior had 0. While the pro league had no thieves in season 1, 2 in season 2, no guardians in either, and 2 warriors in 2. They were not good. Warrior probably had the best performance over the entirety of HoT, but generally the 3 were in the same spot mesmer and warrior are right now.

you're wrong on that. condi berserker was very strong at the beginning of HoT and so was dragon hunter. in fact, they were so strong they got nerfed multiple times (dh), can't remember how much berserker was nerfed but that one fell out of meta for a different reason, condi rev. condi rev absolutely obliterated everything until it was nerfed. scrapper was extremely strong aswell, completely replacing every engi build because it was incredibly tanky, hitting 6k+ with marauder. tempest fell out of meta when teams started running double chrono, because why run tempest if you can run double chrono, have portal and nothing ever dies? and why would you run a thief if you can't kill anything anyway.

We had the pro league pretty much immediately after HoT. Dragon hunter at first was an uncommon, but used pick, while condi berserker was not used at all. Then dragonhunter was nerfed and fell off nearly entirely. Dragonhunter was nerfed because it was a "noob stomper". Not a good build, but one newer players had great trouble with. They however werent good.

Tempest never fell off. The last tournament was the world championship, and it saw tempests in every single team. As for ladder, it wasnt Tempest that fell off, it was chrono, after some particularly harsh nerfs. Youre right on the thief though, it wasnt played because +1ing didnt do much.

[Jekkt.6045]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil

None of which saw sucess at the highest level of play. If you look at worlds, thief had 2 guardian had 1 in it across 6 teams, and warrior had 0. While the pro league had no thieves in season 1, 2 in season 2, no guardians in either, and 2 warriors in 2. They were not good. Warrior probably had the best performance over the entirety of HoT, but generally the 3 were in the same spot mesmer and warrior are right now.

you're wrong on that. condi berserker was very strong at the beginning of HoT and so was dragon hunter. in fact, they were so strong they got nerfed multiple times (dh), can't remember how much berserker was nerfed but that one fell out of meta for a different reason, condi rev. condi rev absolutely obliterated everything until it was nerfed. scrapper was extremely strong aswell, completely replacing every engi build because it was incredibly tanky, hitting 6k+ with marauder. tempest fell out of meta when teams started running double chrono, because why run tempest if you can run double chrono, have portal and nothing ever dies? and why would you run a thief if you can't kill anything anyway.

We had the pro league pretty much immediately after HoT. Dragon hunter at first was an uncommon, but used pick, while condi berserker was not used at all. Then dragonhunter was nerfed and fell off nearly entirely. Dragonhunter was nerfed because it was a "noob stomper". Not a good build, but one newer players had great trouble with. They however werent good.

Tempest never fell off. The last tournament was the world championship, and it saw tempests in every single team. As for ladder, it wasnt Tempest that fell off, it was chrono, after some particularly harsh nerfs. Youre right on the thief though, it wasnt played because +1ing didnt do much.

dragon hunter was the strongest guardian build at that time. and yes, it was a noob stomper and got nerfed because of it (unjustified nerf tho). berserker was definitely played by prominent warrior players. it's possible it never made it into pro league tho, i don't really remember anymore so you might be correct about that. tempest only saw play because you were not allowed to run two of the same class. before they implemented that rule teams pretty much ran double chrono double condi rev and druid. also, i don't remember anymore when that rule was implemented, so it's possible pro league never saw double chrono double rev comps. i do know however that those comps were played in scrims. tempest was not bad by any means. it was extremely strong with minstrel amulet which was removed later on, but there was chrono.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil

None of which saw sucess at the highest level of play. If you look at worlds, thief had 2 guardian had 1 in it across 6 teams, and warrior had 0. While the pro league had no thieves in season 1, 2 in season 2, no guardians in either, and 2 warriors in 2. They were not good. Warrior probably had the best performance over the entirety of HoT, but generally the 3 were in the same spot mesmer and warrior are right now.

you're wrong on that. condi berserker was very strong at the beginning of HoT and so was dragon hunter. in fact, they were so strong they got nerfed multiple times (dh), can't remember how much berserker was nerfed but that one fell out of meta for a different reason, condi rev. condi rev absolutely obliterated everything until it was nerfed. scrapper was extremely strong aswell, completely replacing every engi build because it was incredibly tanky, hitting 6k+ with marauder. tempest fell out of meta when teams started running double chrono, because why run tempest if you can run double chrono, have portal and nothing ever dies? and why would you run a thief if you can't kill anything anyway.

We had the pro league pretty much immediately after HoT. Dragon hunter at first was an uncommon, but used pick, while condi berserker was not used at all. Then dragonhunter was nerfed and fell off nearly entirely. Dragonhunter was nerfed because it was a "noob stomper". Not a good build, but one newer players had great trouble with. They however werent good.

Tempest never fell off. The last tournament was the world championship, and it saw tempests in every single team. As for ladder, it wasnt Tempest that fell off, it was chrono, after some particularly harsh nerfs. Youre right on the thief though, it wasnt played because +1ing didnt do much.

dragon hunter was the strongest guardian build at that time. and yes, it was a noob stomper and got nerfed because of it (unjustified nerf tho). berserker was definitely played by prominent warrior players. it's possible it never made it into pro league tho, i don't really remember anymore so you might be correct about that. tempest only saw play because you were not allowed to run two of the same class. before they implemented that rule teams pretty much ran double chrono double condi rev and druid. also, i don't remember anymore when that rule was implemented, so it's possible pro league never saw double chrono double rev comps. i do know however that those comps were played in scrims. tempest was not bad by any means. it was extremely strong with minstrel amulet which was removed later on, but there was chrono.

It was the best guardian build. Guardian as a whole just wasnt very good. Warrior also just wasnt very good. And no, Tempest saw play because it was ridiculous. hell, in the first pro league, you did not see as much Chrono as Tempest.

[Axl.8924]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Not True, It took until Festival of the Four winds back in season 1 for Ele to become viable in Core days, Season 4 of PvP Ele wasn't viable, and 2 years after PoF for weaver to become somewhat viable.

I could have sworn that a year ago or so feel players were complaining about tempest not being good in SPVP.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Not True, It took until Festival of the Four winds back in season 1 for Ele to become viable in Core days, Season 4 of PvP Ele wasn't viable, and 2 years after PoF for weaver to become somewhat viable.

I could have sworn that a year ago or so feel players were complaining about tempest not being good in SPVP.

I got bored of Tempest in PvP when PoF came out, I never play it

[hotte in space.2158]

@Axl.8924 said:I could have sworn that a year ago or so feel players were complaining about tempest not being good in SPVP.From release of PoF until february patch this year tempest wasnt playable. Too much damage around during power creep.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Anet reworking Elementalist will probably end up being much worse than it already is

[ancafr.9274]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I could have sworn that a year ago or so feel players were complaining about tempest not being good in SPVP.From release of PoF until february patch this year tempest wasnt playable. Too much damage around during power creep.

They should starting by REMOVING THE ANNOYING CHATTING ''FIRED UP, READY RO ROCK ETC ETC'' EVERY TIME WE MOUNT/DISMOUNT and when the F's are charged. Seriously i stopped playing my tempest and went to weaver because of that =/.

PS: Yes I do know we can turn off the chatting but I like hearing, so I suggest Anet TURN OFF this kind of chatting. The customization on this game is good but there are a looooooooooooooong way to go and many things to be done specially on system(options), craft and game play.

[Axl.8924]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Anet reworking Elementalist will probably end up being much worse than it already isough.Would be nice though I mean tempest is pretty vulnerable in escapes.

It kinda reminds me of when people complained about nec but forget that they got little chance of actually getting away.

Those tools were getaway tools for temples and now its on 1 min 15 sec which is just brutal.

And maybe we could have a reform of the way we do dmg since might is being taken away like more natural dmg on attacks instead of needing might stack?

Maybe changes to weapon attacks themselves like mobility moves to make them more available since ele is so squishy.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Supreme.3164 said:-They nerfed core ele and not tempest? I don't see how a core ele with focus could be such a threat to anybody up to this point, if you want to nerf the support spec..nerf the actual support spec?

This is the issue. They nerfed tempest(barely) but why touch mist form and focus 5? Was wever, dps tempest, and base ele strong enough to deserve nerfs?

Just the same devs that gutted everything about Ele in vanilla/hot due to bunker specs, as you can see its the EXACT same type of nerfs with zero though behind them. Not sure why CmC allowed this...btw CmC is an ele main(or was).

[hotte in space.2158]

What runs wrong with ele on example obsidian flesh

Originally obsidian flesh was 4sec invulnerable with 40 sec CD. It was and is the one and only skill of ele to avoid damage and had a higher value than an ordinary block.Now its got 3sec invulnerable with 60sec CD and all skills locked down. As there are no other active defensives, ele is obliged to choose mender amulett onlyand water traitline to keep its survivability. Nerfing obsidian flesh = destroying core eles/tempests build diversity. Only weaver could live without obsidian flesh butalso isnt in a good shape. Eles build diversity = zero ! ! !Obsidian flesh hasnt got high value anymore. Every ordinary block with 30sec CD is ten times more useful !

Rework proposal (non biased) :1) Delete obsidian flesh and give ele a 30 sec CD block.2) Nerf or delete soothing mist + healing ripple and give ele some active skillful heal/defense traits to help ele out of this damn boring support role.(Why should ele support classes like necro or rev, which have much higher sustain than ele itself ???)3) Increase CD for unhealthy glyph of renewal to 120 sec.4) Make shocking aura unsharable to allies.5) Give core ele some stability (elite trade off) and reduce cast times for certain skills on staff to make it finally viable again.6) Rework useless 5 minute traits.

This is of course just a rough proposal how to rework ele and to bring back its build diversity, but to go more into details doesnt make sense,because a rework will never be done anyway. Probably not even the useless 5 minute traits will ever be reworked.

[MyPuppy.8970]

At this rate the only role left for ele will be staying in base and protecting Lord.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Dude and ele's skills are so bland and lack any cool new features that other classes have had added to them. They can't strip boons, they have low access to a lot of conditions besides burning, they don't provide very good boon output, their might and fury generation is about to be gutted in the new patch, they don't provide any special boons like spotter and assassins presence. All ele can do is mediocre direct damage, direct healing, condi cleansing and burning. They are so dependent on having a support with them and yet they get no compensation for it. They also have the most conditional traits reliant on whatever attunement you are in.

[Supreme.3164]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil

None of which saw sucess at the highest level of play. If you look at worlds, thief had 2 guardian had 1 in it across 6 teams, and warrior had 0. While the pro league had no thieves in season 1, 2 in season 2, no guardians in either, and 2 warriors in 2. They were not good. Warrior probably had the best performance over the entirety of HoT, but generally the 3 were in the same spot mesmer and warrior are right now.

-Tempest cannot share : stability or resistance or alacrity or share reduced dmg stance.....I don't see how it's the best support when there are scrapper-firebrand and even Herald doing their part in a different way

Actually frost aura reduces damage. And Shock and Magnet Aura both prove quite a bit of defense. It cant share resistance, but it can cleanse condis from allies repeatedly, which has the same effect most of the time. As for alacrity, no one but chrono can share that, and chrono has not been a playable support since .... Im not actually sure it ever was. Tempest is the best support because it provides the best benefits with the least drawbacks.

-They nerfed core ele and not tempest? I don't see how a core ele with focus could be such a threat to anybody up to this point, if you want to nerf the support spec..nerf the actual support spec?

Im fairly certain tempest uses obsidian flesh. Youre right that it is collateral damage though. I admit, Im not too hapy with it. But Obsidian flesh was always kind of an absurd skill.

We're still talking about a spec that supposed to support others at melee range and there would be no support if you'd insta die the second you get focused down by the enemy, if you wish for squishy support then why make melee range overloads?

I can see where you're coming from and I agree but do try to understand my point also : the players cannot choose to remove a weapon skill in favor of another, they cannot change strategies when forced with a fixed weapon skill

If invulnerability on a weapon skill is too strong...then replace it don't slap a 60s CD on it because the players cannot choose to drop it

[Zeesh.7286]

Tbh I think tempest only became meta support this season because of the nerfs to revival traits from 5% to 1% and nerfs to stabilities which made shocking aura and tempest CCs SOMEWHAT useful. I'm pretty sure this was completely unintended on Anet's part and a blessing for Eles as it is the only suitable way to play Ele in this meta for me. The other builds are too much work and risk compared to the rewards. And yet even a full support tempest is a major pain to play and people shit on it for being OP when you really really need to be good to make a dent in team fights.

[Stallic.2397]

@Zeesh.7286 said:Tbh I think tempest only became meta support this season because of the nerfs to revival traits from 5% to 1% and nerfs to stabilities which made shocking aura and tempest CCs SOMEWHAT useful. I'm pretty sure this was completely unintended on Anet's part and a blessing for Eles as it is the only suitable way to play Ele in this meta for me. The other builds are too much work and risk compared to the rewards. And yet even a full support tempest is a major pain to play and people kitten on it for being OP when you really really need to be good to make a dent in team fights.

People whine until a specialization gets the mirage treatment. Then they feel semi bad as they stomp you with their absurd meta build.

Its sad to see so many versions of guardians, necros, thieves, consistently stay Meta. While also reading complaints about no build diversity. No kitten. A community of players who honestly just want things to stay the same.

[hotte in space.2158]

Ok they nerfed eles sustain to the ground, but well, at least they reworked some useless traits in fire trait line.Like "persisting flames" that didnt get played the last five years. Oh wait, its even more useless now lol =)

Persisting Flames: This trait no longer grants fury when using a blast finisher with a fire combo field. Instead, this trait will now grant the elementalist an additional 1% >damage for 15 seconds for each target struck with a fire field. This effect stacks up to 10 times.This means for example in a 2v2 teamfight, assumed both opponents run over the fire field, ele gets 2% damage for 15 seconds. Wow thats huge^^Ummhhh but they also reworked :Power Overwhelming: Reduced requisite might stack threshold from 10 to 8 in PvP and WvW.Sounds good ! But wait, isnt this a trait that never was picked by anybody and never wont be picked by anybody ???It grants 150 power over the threshold. Other classes have traits like this that grant higher amounts permanent.And ele wont have more than 8 might too often anymore in the future because of :Pyromancer's Puissance: In addition to granting might for each ability used while in fire attunement, this trait will now trigger Flame Expulsion when leaving fire >attunement or finishing a fire overload.Flame Expulsion: After a brief delay, the elementalist releases a fiery explosion at their location that removes up to 10 stacks of might from them. Allies are granted might >for 15 seconds based on the amount of might that was removed, while the damage of the explosion is increased by 10% per stack removed.Then they nerfed :Primordial Stance: Burning duration has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds, with the PvP and WvW versions remaining at 1.5 seconds. Bleeding duration has been >reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds globally.Lol nobody was ever interested in this utillity because of its low damage bleeding duration.Last but not least they nerfed burning on weaver sword :Searing Slash: Burning duration of this skill has been reduced from 6 seconds to 4 seconds.Thats 5 months too late dudes. Did nobody tell them that this was an issue before february patch ?I havent seen even one fire weaver the entire last season ! But probably they just wanted to make sure that weaver doesnt come up again :)

I always wanted devs to do more reworks and balance patches, but now I´ld rather see less of them in the future^^