Time for an in house DPS/Heal meter.

[Cyndercat.7615]

If anet can create a dps meter thats as good as arc, with equal or better features, and no excessive monetization, Id love to see it in game. Due to their past record with build templates I dont trust anet to make that happen, so Id rather they dont make one.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive.

I think gear inspect would be an excellent QoL feature

Only with permission of the inspectee.

That could be overridden by using up a special, gemshop-bought token. Wonderful idea.

...but more seriously - no. Just no.

At this point i simply do not believe they would not mess that up the same way they messed up templates.

[Black Storm.6974]

I think a DPS meter built in game would really help many people to improve. There are many people that don’t really know how they are performing, also people that have a wrong perception about that.

Even if personal DPS would be hidden to others unless they give permission, people could see other people DPS compared to self DPS. They could be willing to improve, they could be curious to understand how they could perform so well.Probably, now most people are simply unaware of their performances (DPS wise).

The community could really improve, and finding good groups could become easier.

Most people will never use ArcDPS, many people won’t even believe they are doing low DPS when someone tell that to them. ArcDPS is a useful software, but it can’t bring the community improvement that a DPS meter built in game could bring.

Anyway, I hope ArenaNet will also let people use ArcDPS, if that is what they want.

[sasya neko.1985]

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

[Lumikki.1725]

@Black Storm.6974 said:I think a DPS meter built in game would really help many people to improve. There are many people that don’t really know how they are performing, also people that have a wrong perception about that.

I can understand that player would wanna improve them self and wanting some way to measure they perfomance.

The community could really improve, and finding good groups could become easier.

This isn't neccassary good thing, because it requires players to play this game certain ways. There is difference between wanting to improve your own character, than starting to require that others do same. Gameplay (powerplaying) where you maximize your own characters efficiency is choise what some players like to do, but not all players likes that. If some content starts to require certain playing styles, it basicly discriminate players who doesn't like same kind of gameplay. This has negative affect to community. Not all players are powerplayers, some play this game just for casual fun, some roleplay an so on...

Having fun can be arrived so many different ways by different people. What's fun for one, doesn't mean it's fun for someone else.

[Kondor.2904]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@"Lyttle.9426" said:This is not a matter of "need" but of want. If you dont want to use it, then dont. Me however, I "need" it because it tells me of my output or lack of, at a glance.

I already have that.You can, too.Why do you need Anet to sell you an inferior option?

I play on mac and i can't use arcdps. I would be really glad to see even a handicapped version of a personal dps meter, since it's quite frustrating to not know when you're underperforming and when you are not.

[Dreams.3128]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

It wouldn't be for people like YOU because people only use DPS meters in places like raids, strikes and fractals where how DPS means you live or die.

God, what is it that you type of people don't get? People don't want to judge YOUR dps, we want to judge our own performance because SOMEONE has to do at least 15k damage in this game. That's just how it is no matter how many people refuse to believe it.

[Taril.8619]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

You'd also have to ban chat logs. And damage numbers. And visible health bars.

'cause unless you remove any and all sources of indication of how much damage someone is doing, people will find a way to check their DPS.

Also, the very nature of MMO's is to increase your DPS. You level up, get better gear, unlock new skills all in the name of doing more damage and healing and tanking. The entirety of PvE content revolves around balancing that is done based on people doing certain amounts of damage, with end-game encounters often having "Enrage Timers" that force a minimum level of DPS to be done by a party or it will auto-wipe.

Since, not doing so creates a toxic environment where progression is not rewarding and the game will be plagued with bots doing full defensive parties full of healers and tanks and auto attacking down bosses for the best loot in the game causing a destruction of in-game economy.

All this, and completely removing all means of seeing numbers or DPS (Including things like, timing how long it takes for someone to kill a specific target - Which gets used in other games as a metric for DPS output) won't stop people discriminating against bad players, they'll just turn their sights on to a new metric to refuse players.

Given that, DPS meters in of themselves, much like many other things in life, are not inherently negative and discriminatory. It's down to how PEOPLE use it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I fully support having tools like arcdps available. I would prefer it if we had a built-in tool with better features/convenience, but I share the wariness of others who watched the epic fail that was build templates.

Having said that, I can hardly blame those who complain about "elitists" (or whatever we choose to call them) after reading this thread. I mean, I get it. When the toughest 5-man instanced content the game has to offer is a handful of bosses you push through phases before they can even move, you have no choice but to create validation wherever you can. I guess talking down to other players suffices where the game fails to provide.

[Black Storm.6974]

This is the game where years ago people could be instantly kicked by the group just for playing Necromancer (no matter how they could play well, often there was not even the time to show it, and anyway “none” could see it), the game where most groups was accepting only “4 Warriors and 1 Mesmer” composition for CoF P1.This was a game where people used to blindly shout to others imagining that they had a low DPS.

DPS meters helped to fight all that, and now we have a way less toxic PvE environment, who wasn’t here before HoT can’t even imagine how the game was. Toxicity, elitism and ignorance was everywhere. Now it seems to be in a “paradise” compared to those times.

There are also underused builds that can do better DPS than “META” builds, based on the encounter and based on the groups you play with. DPS meters help to see that.

There is no reason to ban DPS meters, they helped to make the game a better place.

Also, it is not like that toxicity is now directed to people doing low DPS, it is not. People doing low DPS are the normality in Fractal t4 and rarely someone have something to argue about that.People that really want a good group just look for CMs and ask for kill proofs. Nothing wrong about looking for experienced players for Fractal 99 and 100 CM, with inexperienced players it can turn in 4 hours of frustration. Still, there are parties of “kind people” offering training for it.

[Lyttle.9426]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Who told you, you suck at the game?

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

I for one would like an in-house one for a few reasons:

1. Make it personal only so you don’t encourage rudeness of seeing others.
2. I find myself wanting to know my own so I know how I am doing, and if I can improve. Also, My other characters that I hardly play I know are not geared up right as they take extremely long to kill things. This can help me fine tune my builds and get them better too.
3. It helps other players become better too when they can actually see what they are doing. Could improve dps in pug situations.
4. For those of, there is a perfectly good third party arcdps don’t give us in house solution. I as well as others most likely do not like installing third party programs that can make the experience unstable.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

It wouldn't be for people like YOU because people only use DPS meters in places like raids, strikes and fractals where how DPS means you live or die.

God, what is it that you type of people don't get? People don't want to judge YOUR dps, we want to judge our own performance because SOMEONE has to do at least 15k damage in this game. That's just how it is no matter how many people refuse to believe it.

What a joke. Yes, they DO want to judge everyone, especially everyone else.

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Who told you, you suck at the game?

Probaply a raider, that is what they are know for. After all, if you can't do enough DPS (it doesn't matter if it would be enough to win) to make the raid end as fast as possible, not to mention skip every possible mechanic to make it easier, you get kicked.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

It wouldn't be for people like YOU because people only use DPS meters in places like raids, strikes and fractals where how DPS means you live or die.

God, what is it that you type of people don't get? People don't want to judge YOUR dps, we want to judge our own performance because SOMEONE has to do at least 15k damage in this game. That's just how it is no matter how many people refuse to believe it.

What a joke. Yes, they DO want to judge everyone, especially everyone else.

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Who told you, you suck at the game?

Probaply a raider, that is what they are know for. After all, if you can't do enough DPS (it doesn't matter if it would be enough to win) to make the raid end as fast as possible, not to mention skip every possible mechanic to make it easier, you get kicked.

I'm as nauseated by that sort of behavior as you are and I generally avoid organized group content of any kind (but especially raids!). However, I consider damage meters a critical tool for personal improvement. I don't like it, but I accept the fact that other players will use damage meters in less productive endeavors. I'm not willing to give up that tool because of them.

Thankfully, ANet's greed and ineptitude makes this no debate at all. Nobody with any sense wants ANet's damage meters after seeing their build templates!

[fatihso.7258]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:No thanks.Last time they attempted to replace a great 3rd party tool with one of their own, it turned to out to be kitten.

This tbh.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Who told you, you suck at the game?

Probaply a raider, that is what they are know for. After all, if you can't do enough DPS (it doesn't matter if it would be enough to win) to make the raid end as fast as possible, not to mention skip every possible mechanic to make it easier, you get kicked.

I helped in a bunch of trainings and too low dps caused a lot of wipes. its not like it doesnt matter. This was extremely frustrating because nobody failed mechanics after some tries but failed dps checks on gorse for hours. everything could have been solved with 30min golem training before the raid.I also had to kick some players because it was just impossible to do raids with two full soldier 2k dps reapers when the rest of the dps cant carry them.Gear inspect and a better api that includes combat data would be awesome but it just wont happen. Remember that dev resources are limited and i would rather have them on content, ui improvements or even engine improvements than something that already exists in a 3rd party application. Apple users can still install a linux distribution or maybe even buy pc parts for half the price to also get a performance boost.The toxic casuals are also very vocal about everything raiders or dungeon players like even when they are not playing that content anyways. Gear inspect, while pretty common in all other games, is for some reason an arch enemy to this crowd. Even raid rewards are still too high for some of these even when all current open world farms make more than 2times the g/h of a speedrun guild clearing all raids in 3h. Imagine their nerdrage with something like an anet dps meter coming.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Who told you, you suck at the game?

Probaply a raider, that is what they are know for. After all, if you can't do enough DPS (it doesn't matter if it would be enough to win) to make the raid end as fast as possible, not to mention skip every possible mechanic to make it easier, you get kicked.

I helped in a bunch of trainings and too low dps caused a lot of wipes. its not like it doesnt matter. This was extremely frustrating because nobody failed mechanics after some tries but failed dps checks on gorse for hours. everything could have been solved with 30min golem training before the raid.I also had to kick some players because it was just impossible to do raids with two full soldier 2k dps reapers when the rest of the dps cant carry them.Gear inspect and a better api that includes combat data would be awesome but it just wont happen. Remember that dev resources are limited and i would rather have them on content, ui improvements or even engine improvements than something that already exists in a 3rd party application. Apple users can still install a linux distribution or maybe even buy pc parts for half the price to also get a performance boost.The toxic casuals are also very vocal about everything raiders or dungeon players like even when they are not playing that content anyways. Gear inspect, while pretty common in all other games, is for some reason an arch enemy to this crowd. Even raid rewards are still too high for some of these even when all current open world farms make more than 2times the g/h of a speedrun guild clearing all raids in 3h. Imagine their nerdrage with something like an anet dps meter coming.

Ahh, toxic casuals indeed. Soon we will get someone calling others elitist and the like. Every time, without exception. Heh.

[misterman.1530]

@Lyttle.9426 said:Im tired of using 3rd party dps meters to track my own progress. They tend to be unstable.

Shhhh. Don't. Anet will add one in and it will cost Gems or require some sort of in-game grind to unlock. So...shhhhh.

[Nephalem.8921]

@misterman.1530 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:Im tired of using 3rd party dps meters to track my own progress. They tend to be unstable.

Shhhh. Don't. Anet will add one in and it will cost Gems or require some sort of in-game grind to unlock. So...shhhhh.

And break every update aswell. Arc templates got fixed faster after a patch than their build templates. And they do break every major release.

[Walhalla.5473]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Actuaklly a DPS meter does the opposite. I created an environment where its easier for people to go into groups and prove themselves. Class discrimination was also diminished hard by arc dps.

Let me take you back to a time where we had no legal means of seeing each others dps. Back in HoT times where in raids we had the infamous mirror comps, with 6 supporters and 4 dpslers. Those dps roles? Reserved for eles. The community had the perception that an Ele would always outdps just everything. Other classes in most groups were only taken if no ele would show up for a while and if the group would not meet the dps requirement, the non ele would always be kicked. Example, No updraft Gorseval. Group has 3 Eles and one Dragonhunter but fails to do enough damage to do no updraft Gorseval. Who gets kicked? The Dragonhunter. Because it was "common knowledge" that the ele would always do enough damage and so it was the Dragonhunter who was the weakest link for not building an Ele. Doesn't matter if the DH actually did the most damage or not, he would still getting kicked because everyone thinks that he was the weakest link in the group and if the one who actually did no damage is still in the group then nothing was solved and the group would still wipe on that boss.Now same scenario but with an actual dps meter. Group fails and leader looks at the damage the group did and finds out, 2 Eles and the DH were doing enough but one of the eles was just doing as much as the chrono tank. The leader now knows where the problem is and can act based on actual information instead of perception and class discrimination. Also the new place would be free to any dps class. Even a reaper could show up and pull its own weight ( reapers had the reputation of doing shit damage, and without an actual dps meter it would have no chance of getting into the group )

Today, most raid groups ojnly kick you for bad dps if your damage is actually bad ( like under 10k without doing mechanics or even worse doing as much as the dedicated healers ). Doing just enough is actually that. Enough to actually stay in the raid group.

[sasya neko.1985]

@Walhalla.5473 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Actuaklly a DPS meter does the opposite. I created an environment where its easier for people to go into groups and prove themselves. Class discrimination was also diminished hard by arc dps.

Let me take you back to a time where we had no legal means of seeing each others dps. Back in HoT times where in raids we had the infamous mirror comps, with 6 supporters and 4 dpslers. Those dps roles? Reserved for eles. The community had the perception that an Ele would always outdps just everything. Other classes in most groups were only taken if no ele would show up for a while and if the group would not meet the dps requirement, the non ele would always be kicked. Example, No updraft Gorseval. Group has 3 Eles and one Dragonhunter but fails to do enough damage to do no updraft Gorseval. Who gets kicked? The Dragonhunter. Because it was "common knowledge" that the ele would always do enough damage and so it was the Dragonhunter who was the weakest link for not building an Ele. Doesn't matter if the DH actually did the most damage or not, he would still getting kicked because everyone thinks that he was the weakest link in the group and if the one who actually did no damage is still in the group then nothing was solved and the group would still wipe on that boss.Now same scenario but with an actual dps meter. Group fails and leader looks at the damage the group did and finds out, 2 Eles and the DH were doing enough but one of the eles was just doing as much as the chrono tank. The leader now knows where the problem is and can act based on actual information instead of perception and class discrimination. Also the new place would be free to any dps class. Even a reaper could show up and pull its own weight ( reapers had the reputation of doing kitten damage, and without an actual dps meter it would have no chance of getting into the group )

Today, most raid groups ojnly kick you for bad dps if your damage is actually bad ( like under 10k without doing mechanics or even worse doing as much as the dedicated healers ). Doing just enough is actually that. Enough to actually stay in the raid group.

anything that prevents me from actually playing is a bad idea, if DPS is the only thing ppl care about then Anet needs to do something about that like actually making the game challenging without focusing on DPS.also, as long as this kind of discrimination happens i will always hate raids, it's nothing but toxicity and doesn't add anything to the game.

but please, convince me otherwise, have a group that doesn't care about DPs as long as it's fun but don't come to me crying when that very thing is impossible because of arcDPS.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Walhalla.5473 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Actuaklly a DPS meter does the opposite. I created an environment where its easier for people to go into groups and prove themselves. Class discrimination was also diminished hard by arc dps.

Let me take you back to a time where we had no legal means of seeing each others dps. Back in HoT times where in raids we had the infamous mirror comps, with 6 supporters and 4 dpslers. Those dps roles? Reserved for eles. The community had the perception that an Ele would always outdps just everything. Other classes in most groups were only taken if no ele would show up for a while and if the group would not meet the dps requirement, the non ele would always be kicked. Example, No updraft Gorseval. Group has 3 Eles and one Dragonhunter but fails to do enough damage to do no updraft Gorseval. Who gets kicked? The Dragonhunter. Because it was "common knowledge" that the ele would always do enough damage and so it was the Dragonhunter who was the weakest link for not building an Ele. Doesn't matter if the DH actually did the most damage or not, he would still getting kicked because everyone thinks that he was the weakest link in the group and if the one who actually did no damage is still in the group then nothing was solved and the group would still wipe on that boss.Now same scenario but with an actual dps meter. Group fails and leader looks at the damage the group did and finds out, 2 Eles and the DH were doing enough but one of the eles was just doing as much as the chrono tank. The leader now knows where the problem is and can act based on actual information instead of perception and class discrimination. Also the new place would be free to any dps class. Even a reaper could show up and pull its own weight ( reapers had the reputation of doing kitten damage, and without an actual dps meter it would have no chance of getting into the group )

Today, most raid groups ojnly kick you for bad dps if your damage is actually bad ( like under 10k without doing mechanics or even worse doing as much as the dedicated healers ). Doing just enough is actually that. Enough to actually stay in the raid group.

anything that prevents me from actually playing is a bad idea, if DPS is the only thing ppl care about then Anet needs to do something about that like actually making the game challenging without focusing on DPS.also, as long as this kind of discrimination happens i will always hate raids, it's nothing but toxicity and doesn't add anything to the game.

but please, convince me otherwise, have a group that doesn't care about DPs as long as it's fun but don't come to me crying when that very thing is impossible because of arcDPS.

It's not impossible because of arcdps. It's impossible because this game already lacks defined roles. We have DPS and then we have DPS-lite which we call support, but which basically exists only because it produces higher group DPS than filling those roles with more DPS. What would you replace that with? Nothing? So what do these roles do exactly? Just run around performing...other mechanics? Is this a battle or a puzzle we're talking about here?

[Walhalla.5473]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Walhalla.5473 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Actuaklly a DPS meter does the opposite. I created an environment where its easier for people to go into groups and prove themselves. Class discrimination was also diminished hard by arc dps.

Let me take you back to a time where we had no legal means of seeing each others dps. Back in HoT times where in raids we had the infamous mirror comps, with 6 supporters and 4 dpslers. Those dps roles? Reserved for eles. The community had the perception that an Ele would always outdps just everything. Other classes in most groups were only taken if no ele would show up for a while and if the group would not meet the dps requirement, the non ele would always be kicked. Example, No updraft Gorseval. Group has 3 Eles and one Dragonhunter but fails to do enough damage to do no updraft Gorseval. Who gets kicked? The Dragonhunter. Because it was "common knowledge" that the ele would always do enough damage and so it was the Dragonhunter who was the weakest link for not building an Ele. Doesn't matter if the DH actually did the most damage or not, he would still getting kicked because everyone thinks that he was the weakest link in the group and if the one who actually did no damage is still in the group then nothing was solved and the group would still wipe on that boss.Now same scenario but with an actual dps meter. Group fails and leader looks at the damage the group did and finds out, 2 Eles and the DH were doing enough but one of the eles was just doing as much as the chrono tank. The leader now knows where the problem is and can act based on actual information instead of perception and class discrimination. Also the new place would be free to any dps class. Even a reaper could show up and pull its own weight ( reapers had the reputation of doing kitten damage, and without an actual dps meter it would have no chance of getting into the group )

Today, most raid groups ojnly kick you for bad dps if your damage is actually bad ( like under 10k without doing mechanics or even worse doing as much as the dedicated healers ). Doing just enough is actually that. Enough to actually stay in the raid group.

anything that prevents me from actually playing is a bad idea, if DPS is the only thing ppl care about then Anet needs to do something about that like actually making the game challenging without focusing on DPS.also, as long as this kind of discrimination happens i will always hate raids, it's nothing but toxicity and doesn't add anything to the game.

but please, convince me otherwise, have a group that doesn't care about DPs as long as it's fun but don't come to me crying when that very thing is impossible because of arcDPS.

Had enough raids with classes and builds that would be impossible without arcDPS, because that program breaks perception and gives you actual information. Again arcDPS reduced class discrimination a lot, you don't need to convince others that your build is good, they can see if you know what you are doing in that raid. Heck you could go into a raid with an off meta build, do your stuff and nobody cares if its meta or not ( assuming you don't do 1k dps when going for a dps position, or fail to heal anyone as a healer ), which was NOT the case in vanilla and early HoT where we didn't have a tool like this. Back then you were kicked for having the audacity to play something like ranger or necromancer ( I also gave you an example from HoT times, where those things still happened and only stopped after arc got introduced ). Now you go in say hi, your role and ( if demanded ) ping your li or kp

Also getting kicked for not doing what the team expects you from doing is not discrimination. Getting kicked for using a class thats perceived as trash without zhaving a chance to prove yourself... THATS discrimination.

Also, what should be impossible due to arc?

[Cyndercat.7615]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Walhalla.5473 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lyttle.9426 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:a big fat NO

a little skinny WHY NOT?

because all it does is bread negativity, discrimination and nothing but a bad flow in-game.if it was up to me i would ban arcDPS from the game and ban ppl from using it, DPS is absolutely useless when you suck at the game.

Actuaklly a DPS meter does the opposite. I created an environment where its easier for people to go into groups and prove themselves. Class discrimination was also diminished hard by arc dps.

Let me take you back to a time where we had no legal means of seeing each others dps. Back in HoT times where in raids we had the infamous mirror comps, with 6 supporters and 4 dpslers. Those dps roles? Reserved for eles. The community had the perception that an Ele would always outdps just everything. Other classes in most groups were only taken if no ele would show up for a while and if the group would not meet the dps requirement, the non ele would always be kicked. Example, No updraft Gorseval. Group has 3 Eles and one Dragonhunter but fails to do enough damage to do no updraft Gorseval. Who gets kicked? The Dragonhunter. Because it was "common knowledge" that the ele would always do enough damage and so it was the Dragonhunter who was the weakest link for not building an Ele. Doesn't matter if the DH actually did the most damage or not, he would still getting kicked because everyone thinks that he was the weakest link in the group and if the one who actually did no damage is still in the group then nothing was solved and the group would still wipe on that boss.Now same scenario but with an actual dps meter. Group fails and leader looks at the damage the group did and finds out, 2 Eles and the DH were doing enough but one of the eles was just doing as much as the chrono tank. The leader now knows where the problem is and can act based on actual information instead of perception and class discrimination. Also the new place would be free to any dps class. Even a reaper could show up and pull its own weight ( reapers had the reputation of doing kitten damage, and without an actual dps meter it would have no chance of getting into the group )

Today, most raid groups ojnly kick you for bad dps if your damage is actually bad ( like under 10k without doing mechanics or even worse doing as much as the dedicated healers ). Doing just enough is actually that. Enough to actually stay in the raid group.

anything that prevents me from actually playing is a bad idea, if DPS is the only thing ppl care about then Anet needs to do something about that like actually making the game challenging without focusing on DPS.also, as long as this kind of discrimination happens i will always hate raids, it's nothing but toxicity and doesn't add anything to the game.

but please, convince me otherwise, have a group that doesn't care about DPs as long as it's fun but don't come to me crying when that very thing is impossible because of arcDPS.

As long as game content requires a enemies hp to be reduced to 0 to win, DPS will be the focus. It is entirely possible to make content that needs 0 dps, like capturing points in spirit vale, however this type of content ends up being boring as it requires no use of player skills, just running back and forth for 5 minutes. The entire skill system in gw2 is designed around doing damage and therefore anything that is challenging is going to need some form of combat.

There are niche roles in raids btw that dont need any dps at all, like handkite at deimos. Tanks and healers arent expected to do dps either so if someone really hates having their dps judged they can learn those roles instead.

It is not toxicity to expect people to contribute to the group and bring builds that are appropriate for the content. I have found much, much more toxicity from open world players, especially on forums, than I have ever found in a raid group. PVP is even worse. I hate pvp but it would be toxic myself, to say it adds nothing to the game.

[Lumikki.1725]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:It's not impossible because of arcdps. It's impossible because this game already lacks defined roles. We have DPS and then we have DPS-lite which we call support, but which basically exists only because it produces higher group DPS than filling those roles with more DPS. What would you replace that with? Nothing? So what do these roles do exactly? Just run around performing...other mechanics? Is this a battle or a puzzle we're talking about here?

While you right, this games combat focus is DPS and DPS-lite as you say. How ever, reason why you need DPS measurement tools is because how hard the content is. Not all group content should have to be so challenging that it requires DPS measurement tools. As for DPS been the main thing in combat, that's only because this game lacks active defence. That is actually this games biggest failure in combat, been just DPS. Only class what has even little bit active defence, what I know, is Guardian. But as long some defensive attributes has so little meaning in this game and some stuff even totally ignores them, this games combat will be just full DPS and notting more. That's why I call this games combat "headless chiken dance" because only real defence what player really has in this game is avoiding to be hit by enemies, using movement and dodge.

How ever, not really worth of talking, because as far I have learn to understand about this game, game developers don't really fix anyting, they just fine tune some stuff.