HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.

[battledrone.8315]

@ASP.8093 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:it is VERY hard to find a pof defender. it is either core or hot lovers. and pof failed to please both groups. at least hot is consistant , pof is a weirdmishmash of content and ideas. you have a few super casual hearts hidden behind some harder parts. where they dont really help much anyway.

Psshh. I'll gladly defend POF.

• The story is more than just the usual "inspire the Pact a bunch" box-checking, credible antagonists that actually talk to you a good bit.
• Elona and the Crystal Desert are very different from what they were in
  Nightfall
  but it still respects the source material. I really like the Seeker camp at Augury Rock (Ascension Juice!), Vabbi's Joko-fied culture, navigating the Desolation.
• The maps feel big, and also "lived in." They're solo-friendly but not trivial, and the "harder" areas tend to be sign-posted well (like Forged camps).
• Reduced density of hearts compared to Core is actually the game respecting your time, imo.
• The Masteries are easy to pick up quickly (much more so than HoT's), and only a few are required to navigate the maps effectively.
• The Griffon was a very cool surprise for completing PoF, and the scavenger hunt for it is manageable and fun (I wish the gold price was lower, but whatever).
• Everyone who complains about the enemies' leash range is a coward.

and it looks like youre the only one....while pof is much better than hot IMO, it is still hard to find anyone, who is willing to defend it.it is more playable, but certainly not a place i want to hang out. the hearts are mostly useless there. surrounded by tons of harder enemies.they might as well not had made them in the first place

[Laila Lightness.8742]

honestly why are you still arguing with him you cant change his mind for he already decided you are absolutly wrong and he is absolutly right( not saying its true but thats how i percive this you are basicly arguing with a wall) battledrone you didnt really like the game over all its pretty sure you spent 2 h and rage quited for you dont want difficulty you want a time sink to relax to and there is alot of such mmos on mobile wich are good like lineage 2 mobile wich has an auto play function to assist

[maddoctor.2738]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:honestly why are you still arguing with him you cant change his mind for he already decided you are absolutly wrong and he is absolutly right( not saying its true but thats how i percive this you are basicly arguing with a wall) battledrone you didnt really like the game over all its pretty sure you spent 2 h and rage quited for you dont want difficulty you want a time sink to relax to and there is alot of such mmos on mobile wich are good like lineage 2 mobile wich has an auto play function to assist

This is true, which is why I'd rather correct their mistakes on places where we have official data. It's one thing to have an opinion over something, no matter how wrong and unjustified it is, but claiming numbers out of thin air when we have official ones is completely different.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:honestly why are you still arguing with him you cant change his mind for he already decided you are absolutly wrong and he is absolutly right( not saying its true but thats how i percive this you are basicly arguing with a wall) battledrone you didnt really like the game over all its pretty sure you spent 2 h and rage quited for you dont want difficulty you want a time sink to relax to and there is alot of such mmos on mobile wich are good like lineage 2 mobile wich has an auto play function to assist

This is true, which is why I'd rather correct their mistakes on places where we have official data. It's one thing to have an opinion over something, no matter how wrong and unjustified it is, but claiming numbers out of thin air when we have official ones is completely different.

the thing is he dont care he will keep on no matter how much proof you put it for he will always justify

[Sobx.1758]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

What login rewards? Also what exactly are you arguing here? All you're proving is that there are multiple ways to get the same thing, which defeats the complaint about the difficulty level (or the amount of grind and whatever you were trying to complain about here) walling you off from content. If you're not interested in playing the game, improving yourself as a player and progressing through zones that aren't the equivalent of a literal starting zone, then you can still earn most of the things you """need""" through... yeah, logging in and doing the absolute basics. So what exactly is your complaint?You don't automatically DESERVE to complete every bit of content and achievement if all you want is pressing one button like you're in a starting zone. If that's what you expect from the game, then switch to some literal auto-play mobile pseudo-mmorpg.

And you still didn't tell me which buld

that you know how to use

you were forced to abandon by the dificulty level of the content. Are you just throwing out empty claims like this constantly and when questioned about details you abandon it entirely, because what you've said is just false?

if i didnt know how to use my build, i prolly wouldnt had gotten that far.it was a pistol/dagger build with many survival skills.

"far"? As in going through the main story is somehow "getting far with a build" and means "you know how to use it"? :DAnd btw just listing weapons isn't "a build".

YOU claimed, that we have to "earn" things. something, that is blatantly wrong in this game

How is "earning things" in mmorpg being suddenly "wrong" or even anything out of ordinary? What exactly are you talking about here? How exactly is this a valid complaint in a game?

login rewards give access to some of the best gear. afk farmers. the multi loot exploit. plenty of ways to get loot without much effort. NOT earned.but many of the story bosses still dont drop anything after a hard fight, some of them even just gets the opportunity to run away to next line of defense.lots of effort, but no rewards. if you want a true work/reward system, the rewards have to match the effort.

So what exactly you're arguing here? That you don't need to do something but you want to, except you don't want to understand the mechanics and how to actually play the game instead of pressing one key in core?Story/OW content isn't hard, I don't understand what point you're trying to make right now. Didn't you complain about the game forcing you to farm to gear up to complete easy tasks (it doesn't btw and you don't need top gear to easly complete it)? Meanwhile now you say you get top gear for just logging in? I'm a bit confused here. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

What login rewards? Also what exactly are you arguing here? All you're proving is that there are multiple ways to get the same thing, which defeats the complaint about the difficulty level (or the amount of grind and whatever you were trying to complain about here) walling you off from content. If you're not interested in playing the game, improving yourself as a player and progressing through zones that aren't the equivalent of a literal starting zone, then you can still earn most of the things you """need""" through... yeah, logging in and doing the absolute basics. So what exactly is your complaint?You don't automatically DESERVE to complete every bit of content and achievement if all you want is pressing one button like you're in a starting zone. If that's what you expect from the game, then switch to some literal auto-play mobile pseudo-mmorpg.

And you still didn't tell me which buld

that you know how to use

you were forced to abandon by the dificulty level of the content. Are you just throwing out empty claims like this constantly and when questioned about details you abandon it entirely, because what you've said is just false?

if i didnt know how to use my build, i prolly wouldnt had gotten that far.it was a pistol/dagger build with many survival skills.

"far"? As in going through the main story is somehow "getting far with a build" and means "you know how to use it"? :DAnd btw just listing weapons isn't "a build".

YOU claimed, that we have to "earn" things. something, that is blatantly wrong in this game

How is "earning things" in mmorpg being suddenly "wrong" or even anything out of ordinary? What exactly are you talking about here? How exactly is this a valid complaint in a game?

login rewards give access to some of the best gear. afk farmers. the multi loot exploit. plenty of ways to get loot without much effort. NOT earned.but many of the story bosses still dont drop anything after a hard fight, some of them even just gets the opportunity to run away to next line of defense.lots of effort, but no rewards. if you want a true work/reward system, the rewards have to match the effort.

So what exactly you're arguing here? That you don't need to do something but you want to, except you don't want to understand the mechanics and how to actually play the game instead of pressing one key in core?Story/OW content isn't hard, I don't understand what point you're trying to make right now. Didn't you complain about the game forcing you to farm to gear up to complete easy tasks (it doesn't btw and you don't need top gear to easly complete it)? Meanwhile now you say you get top gear for just logging in? I'm a bit confused here. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

I think he refer to exotic box once a month with random 75-80 exotic item

[Sobx.1758]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

What login rewards? Also what exactly are you arguing here? All you're proving is that there are multiple ways to get the same thing, which defeats the complaint about the difficulty level (or the amount of grind and whatever you were trying to complain about here) walling you off from content. If you're not interested in playing the game, improving yourself as a player and progressing through zones that aren't the equivalent of a literal starting zone, then you can still earn most of the things you """need""" through... yeah, logging in and doing the absolute basics. So what exactly is your complaint?You don't automatically DESERVE to complete every bit of content and achievement if all you want is pressing one button like you're in a starting zone. If that's what you expect from the game, then switch to some literal auto-play mobile pseudo-mmorpg.

And you still didn't tell me which buld

that you know how to use

you were forced to abandon by the dificulty level of the content. Are you just throwing out empty claims like this constantly and when questioned about details you abandon it entirely, because what you've said is just false?

if i didnt know how to use my build, i prolly wouldnt had gotten that far.it was a pistol/dagger build with many survival skills.

"far"? As in going through the main story is somehow "getting far with a build" and means "you know how to use it"? :DAnd btw just listing weapons isn't "a build".

YOU claimed, that we have to "earn" things. something, that is blatantly wrong in this game

How is "earning things" in mmorpg being suddenly "wrong" or even anything out of ordinary? What exactly are you talking about here? How exactly is this a valid complaint in a game?

login rewards give access to some of the best gear. afk farmers. the multi loot exploit. plenty of ways to get loot without much effort. NOT earned.but many of the story bosses still dont drop anything after a hard fight, some of them even just gets the opportunity to run away to next line of defense.lots of effort, but no rewards. if you want a true work/reward system, the rewards have to match the effort.

So what exactly you're arguing here? That you don't need to do something but you want to, except you don't want to understand the mechanics and how to actually play the game instead of pressing one key in core?Story/OW content isn't hard, I don't understand what point you're trying to make right now. Didn't you complain about the game forcing you to farm to gear up to complete easy tasks (it doesn't btw and you don't need top gear to easly complete it)? Meanwhile now you say you get top gear for just logging in? I'm a bit confused here. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

I think he refer to exotic box once a month with random 75-80 exotic item

He can literally complete 3 daily achievements for a week and buy level 80 exotics for that 14 gold without really playing a game. Then he somehow complains he needs to grind for gold to re-gear specifically for OW/story content. Which not only is simply false in itself, because he doesn't need to re-gear for that content, but also... it doesn't really require any "grinding".So I'd like to hear what his actual complaint here is and what point he's currently trying to make, because I think at the moment he's not even sure anymore.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

What login rewards? Also what exactly are you arguing here? All you're proving is that there are multiple ways to get the same thing, which defeats the complaint about the difficulty level (or the amount of grind and whatever you were trying to complain about here) walling you off from content. If you're not interested in playing the game, improving yourself as a player and progressing through zones that aren't the equivalent of a literal starting zone, then you can still earn most of the things you """need""" through... yeah, logging in and doing the absolute basics. So what exactly is your complaint?You don't automatically DESERVE to complete every bit of content and achievement if all you want is pressing one button like you're in a starting zone. If that's what you expect from the game, then switch to some literal auto-play mobile pseudo-mmorpg.

And you still didn't tell me which buld

that you know how to use

you were forced to abandon by the dificulty level of the content. Are you just throwing out empty claims like this constantly and when questioned about details you abandon it entirely, because what you've said is just false?

if i didnt know how to use my build, i prolly wouldnt had gotten that far.it was a pistol/dagger build with many survival skills.

"far"? As in going through the main story is somehow "getting far with a build" and means "you know how to use it"? :DAnd btw just listing weapons isn't "a build".

YOU claimed, that we have to "earn" things. something, that is blatantly wrong in this game

How is "earning things" in mmorpg being suddenly "wrong" or even anything out of ordinary? What exactly are you talking about here? How exactly is this a valid complaint in a game?

login rewards give access to some of the best gear. afk farmers. the multi loot exploit. plenty of ways to get loot without much effort. NOT earned.but many of the story bosses still dont drop anything after a hard fight, some of them even just gets the opportunity to run away to next line of defense.lots of effort, but no rewards. if you want a true work/reward system, the rewards have to match the effort.

So what exactly you're arguing here? That you don't need to do something but you want to, except you don't want to understand the mechanics and how to actually play the game instead of pressing one key in core?Story/OW content isn't hard, I don't understand what point you're trying to make right now. Didn't you complain about the game forcing you to farm to gear up to complete easy tasks (it doesn't btw and you don't need top gear to easly complete it)? Meanwhile now you say you get top gear for just logging in? I'm a bit confused here. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

I think he refer to exotic box once a month with random 75-80 exotic item

He can literally complete 3 daily achievements for a week and buy level 80 exotics for that 14 gold without really playing a game. Then he somehow complains he needs to grind for gold to re-gear specifically for OW/story content. Which not only is simply false in itself, because he doesn't need to re-gear for that content, but also... it doesn't really require any "grinding".So I'd like to hear what his actual complaint here is and what point he's currently trying to make, because I think at the moment he's not even sure anymore.

The thing he also stated he refuse to use trade post for it feeds the farmer if i remember right

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

What login rewards? Also what exactly are you arguing here? All you're proving is that there are multiple ways to get the same thing, which defeats the complaint about the difficulty level (or the amount of grind and whatever you were trying to complain about here) walling you off from content. If you're not interested in playing the game, improving yourself as a player and progressing through zones that aren't the equivalent of a literal starting zone, then you can still earn most of the things you """need""" through... yeah, logging in and doing the absolute basics. So what exactly is your complaint?You don't automatically DESERVE to complete every bit of content and achievement if all you want is pressing one button like you're in a starting zone. If that's what you expect from the game, then switch to some literal auto-play mobile pseudo-mmorpg.

And you still didn't tell me which buld

that you know how to use

you were forced to abandon by the dificulty level of the content. Are you just throwing out empty claims like this constantly and when questioned about details you abandon it entirely, because what you've said is just false?

if i didnt know how to use my build, i prolly wouldnt had gotten that far.it was a pistol/dagger build with many survival skills.

"far"? As in going through the main story is somehow "getting far with a build" and means "you know how to use it"? :DAnd btw just listing weapons isn't "a build".

YOU claimed, that we have to "earn" things. something, that is blatantly wrong in this game

How is "earning things" in mmorpg being suddenly "wrong" or even anything out of ordinary? What exactly are you talking about here? How exactly is this a valid complaint in a game?

login rewards give access to some of the best gear. afk farmers. the multi loot exploit. plenty of ways to get loot without much effort. NOT earned.but many of the story bosses still dont drop anything after a hard fight, some of them even just gets the opportunity to run away to next line of defense.lots of effort, but no rewards. if you want a true work/reward system, the rewards have to match the effort.

So what exactly you're arguing here? That you don't need to do something but you want to, except you don't want to understand the mechanics and how to actually play the game instead of pressing one key in core?Story/OW content isn't hard, I don't understand what point you're trying to make right now. Didn't you complain about the game forcing you to farm to gear up to complete easy tasks (it doesn't btw and you don't need top gear to easly complete it)? Meanwhile now you say you get top gear for just logging in? I'm a bit confused here. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

I think he refer to exotic box once a month with random 75-80 exotic item

He can literally complete 3 daily achievements for a week and buy level 80 exotics for that 14 gold without really playing a game. Then he somehow complains he needs to grind for gold to re-gear specifically for OW/story content. Which not only is simply false in itself, because he doesn't need to re-gear for that content, but also... it doesn't really require any "grinding".So I'd like to hear what his actual complaint here is and what point he's currently trying to make, because I think at the moment he's not even sure anymore.

The thing he also stated he refuse to use trade post for it feeds the farmer if i remember right

There sure are a lot of conditions required to enjoy a game! It has to be faceroll. You can't buy anything. You can't grind. You can't require anyone to actually play the game. It's almost as if this hypothetical perfect game isn't actually a game at all!

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@Tren.5120 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then.

And around and around we go.

why would i log into the game , if there is no more content for me? and if i did, i certainly wouldnt waste more time on thief and ele.and regearing into what spec?

There's plenty more content for you if you actually change your mindset and improve at the game. You know, games have things called mechanics. Sometimes either through a shift in balance or introduction of new content, old strategies fail to work while new ones start to. This whole game is about being versatile with your build. This is why you can swap your traits and skills freely out of combat. One build not doing it for you? Perhaps this other one will! It's up to you, the player, to figure out strategies and overcome the challenges the game puts forth.

You're really overselling it, Lol.

If you can't see what I mean with what I'm saying there, then I sincerely doubt your ability to play GW2 well.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then.

And around and around we go.

why would i log into the game , if there is no more content for me? and if i did, i certainly wouldnt waste more time on thief and ele.and regearing into what spec?

There's plenty more content for you if you actually change your mindset and improve at the game. You know, games have things called mechanics. Sometimes either through a shift in balance or introduction of new content, old strategies fail to work while new ones start to. This whole game is about being versatile with your build. This is why you can swap your traits and skills freely out of combat. One build not doing it for you? Perhaps this other one will! It's up to you, the player, to figure out strategies and overcome the challenges the game puts forth.

nope, when i see the word "challenging" i am already on my way out. raiding in wow taught me not to waste time on content, that i dont enjoy.i still have a handful of toons parked at the start of orr. they will never get further, because the fun time is over

Alright, so, you got through the majority of open world content and then hit a brick wall with something that's still within core tyria, and you have the gall to blame the game and not your ability. Everything in this game is substantially easier than raiding in WoW. The only gear checks in this game are "Do you have gear that's 80th level that's also of a good rarity?" But what it seems like is you want to turn your brain off and go afk because that seems to be the only way you'd actually end up dead in anywhere in core tyria that isn't a group event.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then.

And around and around we go.

why would i log into the game , if there is no more content for me? and if i did, i certainly wouldnt waste more time on thief and ele.and regearing into what spec?

There's plenty more content for you if you actually change your mindset and improve at the game. You know, games have things called mechanics. Sometimes either through a shift in balance or introduction of new content, old strategies fail to work while new ones start to. This whole game is about being versatile with your build. This is why you can swap your traits and skills freely out of combat. One build not doing it for you? Perhaps this other one will! It's up to you, the player, to figure out strategies and overcome the challenges the game puts forth.

nope, when i see the word "challenging" i am already on my way out. raiding in wow taught me not to waste time on content, that i dont enjoy.i still have a handful of toons parked at the start of orr. they will never get further, because the fun time is over

Alright, so, you got through the majority of open world content and then hit a brick wall with something that's

still

within core tyria, and you have the gall to blame the game and not your ability. Everything in this game is substantially easier than raiding in WoW. The only gear checks in this game are "Do you have gear that's 80th level that's also of a good rarity?" But what it seems like is you want to turn your brain off and go afk because that seems to be the

only

way you'd actually end up dead in anywhere in core tyria that isn't a group event.

GW2 is very casual-friendly and very friendly toward inexperienced/unskilled players as well. But obviously you can't cater to absolutely everyone. Some people are going to fall well outside the average range of player ability. The issue is when such players demand the entire game cater only to their particular tastes to the point they've convinced themselves that they are representative of the player base in general and that caving to these demands would actually result in some sort of renaissance for an aging game.

[maddoctor.2738]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:CoX never had 200k concurrent.Ever.Not even during the peak of it's popularity (the 6 months following CoV)When CoX was online you could very easily see just how many people were playing at any given point via a site that showed just how many people were on each server. The server numbers were easily generated as each zone gave it's population (including players in associated instances)CoX rarely peaked over 70k.The night they shut down they had less than 15k. I was there.

Why are you inventing false statistics?

if they have 70k online, then they have over 500k total. people need to sleep too.and i meant when the decision was made, having 15k online in the very last seconds is actually quite good

You can check the official data given to us by NCSoft from Q2 2004 to Q2 2006:Highest concurrent users / 31,085 / 26,870 / 15,741 / 21,283 / 20,911 / 22,340 / 23,730 / 23,699 / 22,274Monthly access / 169,925 / 163,053 / 124,435 / 140,481 / 162,922 / 150,068 / 194,000 / 171,951 / 171,000

The highest concurrency number for CoH was 31085 on Q2 2004 (launch quarter), CoV launch concurrency (Q4 2005) was at 23730. So the game never reached 70k concurrent players, it barely "scratched" the 30k mark. Given the rapid decline in revenue and monthly player data before the game was cancelled we can easily say that the number was never reached, not even close. In 2005 the game had on average of 6k million krw revenue per quarter, when it was cancelled in 2012 the quarterly revenue dropped to an average of 3k, which is the same amount (3k) it had when it went f2p.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then.

And around and around we go.

why would i log into the game , if there is no more content for me? and if i did, i certainly wouldnt waste more time on thief and ele.and regearing into what spec?

There's plenty more content for you if you actually change your mindset and improve at the game. You know, games have things called mechanics. Sometimes either through a shift in balance or introduction of new content, old strategies fail to work while new ones start to. This whole game is about being versatile with your build. This is why you can swap your traits and skills freely out of combat. One build not doing it for you? Perhaps this other one will! It's up to you, the player, to figure out strategies and overcome the challenges the game puts forth.

nope, when i see the word "challenging" i am already on my way out. raiding in wow taught me not to waste time on content, that i dont enjoy.i still have a handful of toons parked at the start of orr. they will never get further, because the fun time is over

Alright, so, you got through the majority of open world content and then hit a brick wall with something that's

still

within core tyria, and you have the gall to blame the game and not your ability. Everything in this game is substantially easier than raiding in WoW. The only gear checks in this game are "Do you have gear that's 80th level that's also of a good rarity?" But what it seems like is you want to turn your brain off and go afk because that seems to be the

only

way you'd actually end up dead in anywhere in core tyria that isn't a group event.

GW2 is very casual-friendly and very friendly toward inexperienced/unskilled players as well. But obviously you can't cater to absolutely everyone. Some people are going to fall well outside the average range of player ability. The issue is when such players demand the entire game cater only to their particular tastes to the point they've convinced themselves that they are representative of the player base in general and that caving to these demands would actually result in some sort of renaissance for an aging game.

I know, the general playerbase is an inverse parabola with a vast majority of players being in the middle. I just wasn't expecting to find someone who's either so lazy, so stuck in their ways, or so inept at this game that they'd fall on the left side of the graph of players.

[Tren.5120]

@Tren.5120 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then.

And around and around we go.

why would i log into the game , if there is no more content for me? and if i did, i certainly wouldnt waste more time on thief and ele.and regearing into what spec?

There's plenty more content for you if you actually change your mindset and improve at the game. You know, games have things called mechanics. Sometimes either through a shift in balance or introduction of new content, old strategies fail to work while new ones start to. This whole game is about being versatile with your build. This is why you can swap your traits and skills freely out of combat. One build not doing it for you? Perhaps this other one will! It's up to you, the player, to figure out strategies and overcome the challenges the game puts forth.

You're really overselling it, Lol.

If you can't see what I mean with what I'm saying there, then I sincerely doubt your ability to play GW2 well.

The PvE is almost non-existent, the PvP is a balance mess. What incentive is there to "play better?" To appease you and gain your validation? I'm sorry, but I didn't know you were a factor... ... Oh, that's right. You're completely non-factor. Congratulations.

My issue is not skill level. I'm more than good there, thank you. My issue is that the game gives us (me and my friends) very little reason to log in for more than 20 minutes every few days (outside of getting login rewards every day) - if even that often. The content is too duplicative/redundant, and the PvP isn't good enough. There is very little in terms of character progression in the game. It plays more like Diablo III than an MMORPG, and even that delivers more variety in gameplay.

I'm not going to waste countless hours on collectibles, map completion, etc. Leveling alts (already have enough of those). I stopped caring about that junk years ago. Have at it, if that's what you enjoy. I want an actual MMORPG gameplay experience. This isn't delivering.

And yes, you're totally overselling it. I understood what you meant, and meant exactly what I wrote.

Bye.

[Tren.5120]

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@"Tren.5120" said:Play ESO.

GW2 is a game for casuals, but Heart of Thorns was probably the worst expansion that I've experienced in an MMORPG - and I've been playing them since EQ circa 2000/2001. The only thing that approaches it is the Eureka Anemos update in FFXIV, but for different reasons.

The Maps are Cancerous. They're chock full of MOBs. The Hero Points are put in some of the weirdest places. The mastery gating is ridiculous.

It's definitely more playable now, with PoFire Mounts, and that's why I quit 30 minutes after buying HoT until after PoFire was released.

I value my time, and I definitely value getting entertained by a game more than frustrated.

But I spend most of my time in ESO now. I played GW2 primarily and only when a friend of mine logged in, cause we socialize while playing games (he lives far away). But, I bought him ESO Greymoor for his BD, so we're likely going to put this one to rest.

Pray they don't make the same mistake in the next expansion. PoFire was much better than HoT - it isn't even close. The only issue I have with GW2 is that the content is too derivative, and there isn't much meat in it, in terms of progression. That's why I'm getting my friend on ESO. SO we have something that has better long term progression goodness in it.

Sounds like you want a game with gear progression so that you can outgear any obstacles you happen to come across. GW2 is not the game for you as all of the progression in expansion content is (player) skill progression. Gear cap is hit before you ever hit expansion content so overcoming the expansion challenges is completely a gitgud situation. People who haven't learned how to use active defenses and play with the mentality of "getting hit once means I failed combat" will struggle. The masteries do help you navigate more easily but largely are not useful in combat.

I'm sorry, but are people not soloing high Fractals in GW2? You sound a bit hypocritical.

I want a game that has character progression that lasts beyond 1-2 Legendaries and single set of Purple Armor - unless I want to play collector.

I want to be able to say that I have an avenue of character progression 1 year later, without having to reroll an alternate character.

The game isn't delivering when it comes to "content," so I need better character progression to justify wasting hours doing duplicative/redundant content in the game. Masteries are not "that."

I was pretty clear why I stated what I stated. I am not sure why you feel the need to rewrite my post for me. GW2 is very AARPG-like when it comes to Character Progression. In fact, I'd rate it below most ARPGs (D3, PoE, etc.). There is almost none. There is almost nothing for gear progression or XP progression. Masteries are basically it, and there would be no reason to do most of them without the "content" gating itself to force you to get them.

I'm looking for a decent RPG experience, not Fashion Wars.

Thank you.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@Tren.5120 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@Tren.5120 said:Play ESO.

GW2 is a game for casuals, but Heart of Thorns was probably the worst expansion that I've experienced in an MMORPG - and I've been playing them since EQ circa 2000/2001. The only thing that approaches it is the Eureka Anemos update in FFXIV, but for different reasons.

The Maps are Cancerous. They're chock full of MOBs. The Hero Points are put in some of the weirdest places. The mastery gating is ridiculous.

It's definitely more playable now, with PoFire Mounts, and that's why I quit 30 minutes after buying HoT until after PoFire was released.

I value my time, and I definitely value getting entertained by a game more than frustrated.

But I spend most of my time in ESO now. I played GW2 primarily and only when a friend of mine logged in, cause we socialize while playing games (he lives far away). But, I bought him ESO Greymoor for his BD, so we're likely going to put this one to rest.

Pray they don't make the same mistake in the next expansion. PoFire was much better than HoT - it isn't even close. The only issue I have with GW2 is that the content is too derivative, and there isn't much meat in it, in terms of progression. That's why I'm getting my friend on ESO. SO we have something that has better long term progression goodness in it.

Sounds like you want a game with gear progression so that you can outgear any obstacles you happen to come across. GW2 is not the game for you as all of the progression in expansion content is (player) skill progression. Gear cap is hit before you ever hit expansion content so overcoming the expansion challenges is completely a gitgud situation. People who haven't learned how to use active defenses and play with the mentality of "getting hit once means I failed combat" will struggle. The masteries do help you navigate more easily but largely are not useful in combat.

I'm sorry, but are people not soloing high Fractals in GW2? You sound a bit hypocritical.

I want a game that has character progression that lasts beyond 1-2 Legendaries and single set of Purple Armor - unless I want to play collector.

I want to be able to say that I have an avenue of character progression 1 year later, without having to reroll an alternate character.

The game isn't delivering when it comes to "content," so I need better character progression to justify wasting hours doing duplicative/redundant content in the game. Masteries are not "that."

I was pretty clear why I stated what I stated. I am not sure why you feel the need to rewrite my post for me. GW2 is very AARPG-like when it comes to Character Progression. In fact, I'd rate it below most ARPGs (D3, PoE, etc.). There is almost none. There is almost nothing for gear progression or XP progression. Masteries are basically it, and there would be no reason to do most of them without the "content" gating itself to force you to get them.

I'm looking for a decent RPG experience, not Fashion Wars.

Thank you.

GW2 wasn't ever sold as a gear treadmill or constant progression game. You're asking for something GW2 will never be.

[ASP.8093]

@Tren.5120 said:I'm sorry, but are people not soloing high Fractals in GW2? You sound a bit hypocritical.

Are you soloing high-end Fractals?

Oh. Hmm.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@Tren.5120 said:

@Tren.5120 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours.

In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!).

But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up.

login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards.if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples

So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then.

And around and around we go.

why would i log into the game , if there is no more content for me? and if i did, i certainly wouldnt waste more time on thief and ele.and regearing into what spec?

There's plenty more content for you if you actually change your mindset and improve at the game. You know, games have things called mechanics. Sometimes either through a shift in balance or introduction of new content, old strategies fail to work while new ones start to. This whole game is about being versatile with your build. This is why you can swap your traits and skills freely out of combat. One build not doing it for you? Perhaps this other one will! It's up to you, the player, to figure out strategies and overcome the challenges the game puts forth.

You're really overselling it, Lol.

If you can't see what I mean with what I'm saying there, then I sincerely doubt your ability to play GW2 well.

The PvE is almost non-existent, the PvP is a balance mess. What incentive is there to "play better?" To appease you and gain your validation? I'm sorry, but I didn't know you were a factor... ... Oh, that's right. You're completely non-factor. Congratulations.

My issue is not skill level. I'm more than good there, thank you. My issue is that the game gives us (me and my friends) very little reason to log in for more than 20 minutes every few days (outside of getting login rewards every day) - if even that often. The content is too duplicative/redundant, and the PvP isn't good enough. There is very little in terms of character progression in the game. It plays more like Diablo III than an MMORPG, and even that delivers more variety in gameplay.

I'm not going to waste countless hours on collectibles, map completion, etc. Leveling alts (already have enough of those). I stopped caring about that junk years ago. Have at it, if that's what you enjoy. I want an actual MMORPG gameplay experience. This isn't delivering.

And yes, you're totally overselling it. I understood what you meant, and meant exactly what I wrote.

Bye.

You don't need my validation. There are raids and their CMs with their skins, High end fractal CMs, getting gold consistently on every strike mission, making weird builds that work because you know the meta, and in general, just performing better or knowing how to buff your allies so they can play better too. If you're super casual and haven't done any of that content, there's plenty to do just by getting better with your understanding of the mechanics in this game. If you just paid for the titles or got carried then yeah, there's nothing more that'd require you to get good because you already have everything.

[Sobx.1758]

@Tren.5120 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@Tren.5120 said:Play ESO.

GW2 is a game for casuals, but Heart of Thorns was probably the worst expansion that I've experienced in an MMORPG - and I've been playing them since EQ circa 2000/2001. The only thing that approaches it is the Eureka Anemos update in FFXIV, but for different reasons.

The Maps are Cancerous. They're chock full of MOBs. The Hero Points are put in some of the weirdest places. The mastery gating is ridiculous.

It's definitely more playable now, with PoFire Mounts, and that's why I quit 30 minutes after buying HoT until after PoFire was released.

I value my time, and I definitely value getting entertained by a game more than frustrated.

But I spend most of my time in ESO now. I played GW2 primarily and only when a friend of mine logged in, cause we socialize while playing games (he lives far away). But, I bought him ESO Greymoor for his BD, so we're likely going to put this one to rest.

Pray they don't make the same mistake in the next expansion. PoFire was much better than HoT - it isn't even close. The only issue I have with GW2 is that the content is too derivative, and there isn't much meat in it, in terms of progression. That's why I'm getting my friend on ESO. SO we have something that has better long term progression goodness in it.

Sounds like you want a game with gear progression so that you can outgear any obstacles you happen to come across. GW2 is not the game for you as all of the progression in expansion content is (player) skill progression. Gear cap is hit before you ever hit expansion content so overcoming the expansion challenges is completely a gitgud situation. People who haven't learned how to use active defenses and play with the mentality of "getting hit once means I failed combat" will struggle. The masteries do help you navigate more easily but largely are not useful in combat.

I'm sorry, but are people not soloing high Fractals in GW2? You sound a bit hypocritical.

I want a game that has character progression that lasts beyond 1-2 Legendaries and single set of Purple Armor - unless I want to play collector.

I want to be able to say that I have an avenue of character progression 1 year later, without having to reroll an alternate character.

The game isn't delivering when it comes to "content," so I need better character progression to justify wasting hours doing duplicative/redundant content in the game. Masteries are not "that."

I was pretty clear why I stated what I stated. I am not sure why you feel the need to rewrite my post for me. GW2 is very AARPG-like when it comes to Character Progression. In fact, I'd rate it below most ARPGs (D3, PoE, etc.). There is almost none. There is almost nothing for gear progression or XP progression. Masteries are basically it, and there would be no reason to do most of them without the "content" gating itself to force you to get them.

I'm looking for a decent RPG experience, not Fashion Wars.

Thank you.

If there's so much you hate about gw2 then what are you even doing here? There's plenty of generic mmorpgs that have what you pretend to want, so go and play those instead of trying to change gw2 into what it never wanted to be.

Thank you. Or bye, whatever.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Tren.5120 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@Tren.5120 said:Play ESO.

GW2 is a game for casuals, but Heart of Thorns was probably the worst expansion that I've experienced in an MMORPG - and I've been playing them since EQ circa 2000/2001. The only thing that approaches it is the Eureka Anemos update in FFXIV, but for different reasons.

The Maps are Cancerous. They're chock full of MOBs. The Hero Points are put in some of the weirdest places. The mastery gating is ridiculous.

It's definitely more playable now, with PoFire Mounts, and that's why I quit 30 minutes after buying HoT until after PoFire was released.

I value my time, and I definitely value getting entertained by a game more than frustrated.

But I spend most of my time in ESO now. I played GW2 primarily and only when a friend of mine logged in, cause we socialize while playing games (he lives far away). But, I bought him ESO Greymoor for his BD, so we're likely going to put this one to rest.

Pray they don't make the same mistake in the next expansion. PoFire was much better than HoT - it isn't even close. The only issue I have with GW2 is that the content is too derivative, and there isn't much meat in it, in terms of progression. That's why I'm getting my friend on ESO. SO we have something that has better long term progression goodness in it.

Sounds like you want a game with gear progression so that you can outgear any obstacles you happen to come across. GW2 is not the game for you as all of the progression in expansion content is (player) skill progression. Gear cap is hit before you ever hit expansion content so overcoming the expansion challenges is completely a gitgud situation. People who haven't learned how to use active defenses and play with the mentality of "getting hit once means I failed combat" will struggle. The masteries do help you navigate more easily but largely are not useful in combat.

I'm sorry, but are people not soloing high Fractals in GW2? You sound a bit hypocritical.

I want a game that has character progression that lasts beyond 1-2 Legendaries and single set of Purple Armor - unless I want to play collector.

I want to be able to say that I have an avenue of character progression 1 year later, without having to reroll an alternate character.

The game isn't delivering when it comes to "content," so I need better character progression to justify wasting hours doing duplicative/redundant content in the game. Masteries are not "that."

I was pretty clear why I stated what I stated. I am not sure why you feel the need to rewrite my post for me. GW2 is very AARPG-like when it comes to Character Progression. In fact, I'd rate it below most ARPGs (D3, PoE, etc.). There is almost none. There is almost nothing for gear progression or XP progression. Masteries are basically it, and there would be no reason to do most of them without the "content" gating itself to force you to get them.

I'm looking for a decent RPG experience, not Fashion Wars.

Thank you.

I'm not opposed to more content, but you can keep the artificial progression. Trivializing old content with continual gear upgrades would be a terrible idea for GW2. As would forcing people to grind to achieve skills that should be baseline but aren't...cuz "progression". Grinding for take-it-or-leave-it cosmetic upgrades works just fine for me. I don't need a plastic carrot. Thank you.

[Cuks.8241]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:The thing he also stated he refuse to use trade post for it feeds the farmer if i remember right

Ahahahahahaha.Good troll.

[Razor.9872]

In my opinion, instead of advocating for a branch of content to become easier, I think you should strive to improve yourself. It can be little things, one doesn't need to spend several hours a day to grow. Are you NA or EU? If NA, could try helping you learn how to play necro better :)

[Kastagir.2146]

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine. I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content. I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.

1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

This post hit the nail on the head. And of course, he is going to be told that it's him that sucks playing even though for 80 levels of the base game he was playing fine. The expansions have not been made for those players that loved the base game. I knew 10 people that loved this game before the expansions and they all have quit and think the devs are stupid for listening to the armchair know it alls in this community who claim to speak for everyone. And when this game goes to steam it will fail hard too. They are trying to suck in new players to fall for the same thing the OP did. They refuse to balance the mobs in the expansions to match the mobs of the base game. They made the maps in the expansion annoying and hard to get around. No other MMO does this with its maps. The game needs new management to bring back the fun of the launch of the game. But the devs here are more worried about pissing off the armchair forum posters that think they know everything that players want.

[WorldofBay.8160]

@Asgaeroth.6427 said:he game has plenty of room to have crushingly difficult content available to those who need it and also not be a miserable slog for the vast majority of people who install the product. HoT surface mobs in the gathering and public event areas was not and is still not the right place for brutalizing difficulty spikes.

i am here to play a mmo, not a coop. why should all the fun parts be gated in coop modes (aka instances) when the game is said to be a mmo? that doesn't make the tiniest bit of sense.i hate instanced content and i am glad we do have some difficulty in mobs in HoT and drizzlewood (actually in core too with the bandit champs) but i would like more of it.