Evading a stealth attack should reveal the attacker

[Markri.9475]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Hollow.5382 said:Title.Currently, there is no reward for properly timing a dodge/evade against a stealth attack and no risk to the attacker for missing an attack.

Being hit while in stealth should unstealth you(conditions excluded).Starting an action while in stealth should immediately unstealth you.Missing(blind/it being evaded) an attack in stealth should unstealth you.Stealth shouldn't stack duration.

Being hit; since stealth doesnt stop attack tracking, this would mean most attacks started will find the stealthed player. Things like rapidfire, necroaxe2.. Pretty sure even normal castingtime abilities will track if stealth was entered during the cast time.

@"Sismis.5390" said:When gw2 released there was no stealth all was fine..August 28, 2012 Patch release:Stealth has been added to the game.So deal with it forum crusaders done it.Everything was "added to the game" in that "patch".

[Vancho.8750]

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Stealth should be removed when

using

any ability while in stealth, whether it's a utility, an attack or something else.Additionally, stealthed people should get revealed when being damaged from

any

source, including cleaves, damaging pulses and condition ticks.

Stealth in its current iteration is way too strong, but I can't see Arenanet bothering to change it.

No

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Agree completely.

Getting tired of blocking/evading/dodging stealthed attacks while seeing "block block block" 3x and someone still isn't revealed.

Use reveals

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Hollow.5382 said:Title.Currently, there is no reward for properly timing a dodge/evade against a stealth attack and no risk to the attacker for missing an attack.

Being hit while in stealth should unstealth you(conditions excluded).Starting an action while in stealth should immediately unstealth you.Missing(blind/it being evaded) an attack in stealth should unstealth you.Stealth shouldn't stack duration.

So totally no

@"Bazsi.2734" said:It used to be that whenever people started complaining about stealth, the game was close to balanced. That's not the case right now however(explo holo etc.), so I don't understand what's happening. Did I miss a balance patch that made stealth builds good?

It's just the usual complain about stealth because they can't adept to it, like every week

Every class has a reveal, Every class makes visual things when they are in stealth and you can hear them

AAAAND if you know there are arround you, you can expect them and prepare

Here is the full table of reveal

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

as you can see they aren't that many and most skills are not that good, the good ones are tacked as a profession mechanic to specific elites.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Dunno so much about pvp, but wvw for sure. But this should go for everyone who is In stealth. The moment you evaded an attack from a stealth user then they should be revealed, or just visable at least.

[Antioche.7034]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Dunno so much about pvp, but wvw for sure. But this should go for everyone who is In stealth. The moment you evaded an attack from a stealth user then they should be revealed, or just visable at least.

WvW is another issue totally from PvP as in WvW thieves are virtually unkillable if they want to without taking "damage". In PvP they cannot contest the nodes etc so it remains quite fine.

[Shala.8352]

and we can even go further: immagine having already casted a skill that can be interrupted by stealth in the middle of the animation. Ye that's what happens to a single skill in the game, unrelentig assault. Seriously, why it gets interrupted by stealth leaving me in the middle of the aoe spam team fight like an idiot? Does Ranger rapid fire gets interrupted when a thief/engi stealth? Does Warrior Whirlwind Attack gets interrupted by stealth? Why revenant is still so buggy????

[Zaraki.5784]

@Caine.8204 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Sounds like rewarding random dodging to me.

i know when to dodge against a stealthed opponent and they just do it again 2 seconds later. im really rewarded for my good gameplay! good thing i delayed his 9k backstab for two seconds, now i survived!

just kidding he spammed me with auto and killed me

And it also makes sense realistically speaking: to make an attack, a stealthed character goes out of stealth, either if the attack connects or misses.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shala.8352 said:and we can even go further: immagine having already casted a skill that can be interrupted by stealth in the middle of the animation. Ye that's what happens to a single skill in the game, unrelentig assault. Seriously, why it gets interrupted by stealth leaving me in the middle of the aoe spam team fight like an idiot? Does Ranger rapid fire gets interrupted when a thief/engi stealth? Does Warrior Whirlwind Attack gets interrupted by stealth? Why revenant is still so buggy????

stealth is one of the only counterplay to unrelenting, almost everything in the game trades negatively against it.you have to double dodge, or have long ass block or else you lose 1/4 to 1/2 HP to a fucking evade skill.Im all for making stealth not counter it anymore if it loses its might gen and its damage gets bombed by 30%+ so that its damage is closer to what other skills of its type can do.

EDITunrelenting deals 5% less damage then tier 3 eviscerate from warrior. NEAT skill right there.but when you factor in might it gives on hit the damage is probably about the same

[Bazsi.2734]

@Shala.8352 said:and we can even go further: immagine having already casted a skill that can be interrupted by stealth in the middle of the animation. Ye that's what happens to a single skill in the game, unrelentig assault. Seriously, why it gets interrupted by stealth leaving me in the middle of the aoe spam team fight like an idiot? Does Ranger rapid fire gets interrupted when a thief/engi stealth? Does Warrior Whirlwind Attack gets interrupted by stealth? Why revenant is still so buggy????

It's a skill that repeatedly retargets. Going stealth means the target is gone. Nothing buggy about it. It is also a mobility skill that does damage while evading so... though!

[Master Ketsu.4569]

People who think they would have trouble landing abilities from stealth if missing them caused the revealed debuff are just lol.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:People who think they would have trouble landing abilities from stealth if missing them caused the revealed debuff are just lol.

Play deadeye for a while... and reveal yourself every time you miss a stealth attack(use a weaponskill that does basicly no damage, or cast DJ into nothingness, you have multiple options). Then post an unedited video about how useful you were, just to prove us all wrong.

[Shala.8352]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shala.8352 said:and we can even go further: immagine having already casted a skill that can be interrupted by stealth in the middle of the animation. Ye that's what happens to a single skill in the game, unrelentig assault. Seriously, why it gets interrupted by stealth leaving me in the middle of the aoe spam team fight like an idiot? Does Ranger rapid fire gets interrupted when a thief/engi stealth? Does Warrior Whirlwind Attack gets interrupted by stealth? Why revenant is still so buggy????

stealth is one of the only counterplay to unrelenting, almost everything in the game trades negatively against it.you have to double dodge, or have long kitten block or else you lose 1/4 to 1/2 HP to a kitten evade skill.Im all for making stealth not counter it anymore if it loses its might gen and its damage gets bombed by 30%+ so that its damage is closer to what other skills of its type can do.

EDITunrelenting deals 5% less damage then tier 3 eviscerate from warrior. NEAT skill right there.but when you factor in might it gives on hit the damage is probably about the same

one dodge is enough to avoid unrelenting assault dmg, you will recieve dmg equal to 1 autoattack. Tier 3 eviscerate is one hit, means the same dmg comes in one single moment, differently from unrelenting assault, wich is multiple hits and at least 2-3 you will dodge once the attack is started (unless you are totaly sleeping). But aniway, you are saying that unrelenting assault should not do the same damage of eviscerate: why? Adrenaline is build easily like energy, and eviscerate has 6 seconds CD, UA 15s CD, potentialy you can throw it twice unrelenting assault. It also builds up might exactly like unrelenting assault, plus been a combo finisher. Also you can control your eviscerate target, unrelenting assault will hit random people (or pets clones and minions, or even obstacles sometimes!!!) in team fights, without you beeing able to control it.i don't get this mith where only warrior has to have the highest dmg coefficients and other classes are not allowed. Where is written that warrior has to hit harder than revenant?

But this is not the the topic we are talking about: regardless the balancing where i just showed you are wrong, why your eviscerate is still hitting the stealth thief while animation has started (you can hit him even if you throw it whitout targeting, this skill doesnt need opponent to be visible), and unrelenting assault gets interrupted after beeing channeled on a after channeling stealthed opponent, leaving you a sitting duck and ported to opponent location without hitting? At least make the first attack hit... This game mechanic is wrong in every aspect.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Shala.8352 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shala.8352 said:and we can even go further: immagine having already casted a skill that can be interrupted by stealth in the middle of the animation. Ye that's what happens to a single skill in the game, unrelentig assault. Seriously, why it gets interrupted by stealth leaving me in the middle of the aoe spam team fight like an idiot? Does Ranger rapid fire gets interrupted when a thief/engi stealth? Does Warrior Whirlwind Attack gets interrupted by stealth? Why revenant is still so buggy????

stealth is one of the only counterplay to unrelenting, almost everything in the game trades negatively against it.you have to double dodge, or have long kitten block or else you lose 1/4 to 1/2 HP to a kitten evade skill.Im all for making stealth not counter it anymore if it loses its might gen and its damage gets bombed by 30%+ so that its damage is closer to what other skills of its type can do.

EDITunrelenting deals 5% less damage then tier 3 eviscerate from warrior. NEAT skill right there.but when you factor in might it gives on hit the damage is probably about the same

one dodge is enough to avoid unrelenting assault dmg, you will recieve dmg equal to 1 autoattack. Tier 3 eviscerate is one hit, means the same dmg comes in one single moment, differently from unrelenting assault, wich is multiple hits and at least 2-3 you will dodge once the attack is started (unless you are totaly sleeping). But aniway, you are saying that unrelenting assault should not do the same damage of eviscerate: why? Adrenaline is build easily like energy, and eviscerate has 6 seconds CD, UA 15s CD, potentialy you can throw it twice unrelenting assault. It also builds up might exactly like unrelenting assault, plus been a combo finisher. Also you can control your eviscerate target, unrelenting assault will hit random people (or pets clones and minions, or even obstacles sometimes!!!) in team fights, without you beeing able to control it.i don't get this mith where only warrior has to have the highest dmg coefficients and other classes are not allowed. Where is written that warrior has to hit harder than revenant?

But this is not the the topic we are talking about: regardless the balancing where i just showed you are wrong, why your eviscerate is still hitting the stealth thief while animation has started (you can hit him even if you throw it whitout targeting, this skill doesnt need opponent to be visible), and unrelenting assault gets interrupted after beeing channeled on a after channeling stealthed opponent, leaving you a sitting duck and ported to opponent location without hitting? At least make the first attack hit... This game mechanic is wrong in every aspect.

Ummm so ur saying one dodge mitigates a lot of assaults damage but eviscerate is one skill, doesn't that mean if u dodge eviscerate u mitigate all its damage? So ur still better off with assault no?. Ones a ranged skill that has little tell and eviscerate is melee and well...u kinda know at least 90% of the time when to dodge eviscerate as warrior is pretty predictable lol. Not saying ones better than the other, was just sayin.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shala.8352You didnt prove anything wrong.Unrelenting assault is overpowered as fuck and having stealth somewhat counter it is required for it to be held in line.There is VERY little ways to deal with this skill.1 stealth2 shocking aura type of skills ( holo 5 and shocking aura )3 Long channel blocks/invulns ( which trade negatively against the skill due to MUCH longer cooldowns )Normal dodge lasts 0,75s, unrelenting lasts 1,25s and hits 5 times. So I am assuming it hits at 0,25s intervals ( from first hand exp it seems about right )So it should not be possible to dodge 4 hits from assault with a normal dodge, only 3. Meaning that you still eat 40% of the skills damage even after expanding a dodge for it.And the reason unrelenting works how it works is since it RETARGETS after every strike. you CANT TARGET STEALTHED PEOPLE.This is why stealth doesnt even work some of the time, unrelenting in case of mesmer will hit clones for example. Or other people that are close, or pet if you are ranger.Im sorry that your 15s CD uber ability that is as strong as 2 skills combined can sometimes be countered in very niche scenarios.Its one of those abilities that good player always makes huge value of but bad players find ways to fuck it up and think its fine due to that.You should know when people can stealth against it. Mesmer switched out of torch? now he cant stealth for ~9s ( depends on the build ofc ) so legit he cant do shit.Holo doesnt have stealth and just entered forge? nows the time to use it, only thing he can do to avoid the skill is double dodge or elixir S.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:People who think they would have trouble landing abilities from stealth if missing them caused the revealed debuff are just lol.

Play deadeye for a while... and reveal yourself every time you miss a stealth attack(use a weaponskill that does basicly no damage, or cast DJ into nothingness, you have multiple options). Then post an unedited video about how useful you were, just to prove us all wrong.

Bruh, I have. I used to main thief before rev came out. Landing abilities from stealth from this game is massively easy. Just don't be a predictable monkey by always waiting the full 3s duration of your stealth and you will land abilities no problem. This is the key difference between people who can play stealth centric builds in higher tier games and those who can't.

The only people who want the system to remain as is are the people who don't understand why the lack of counterplay in the mechanic is currently bad for the game.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:People who think they would have trouble landing abilities from stealth if missing them caused the revealed debuff are just lol.

Play deadeye for a while... and reveal yourself every time you miss a stealth attack(use a weaponskill that does basicly no damage, or cast DJ into nothingness, you have multiple options). Then post an unedited video about how useful you were, just to prove us all wrong.

Bruh, I have. I used to main thief before rev came out. Landing abilities from stealth from this game is massively easy. Just don't be a predictable monkey by always waiting the full 3s duration of your stealth and you will land abilities no problem. This is the key difference between people who can play stealth centric builds in higher tier games and those who can't.

"I mained thief before rev came out"... that was roughly 5 years ago. Ranked/unranked wasn't even a thing back then. Being a king of hotjoin in vanilla is completely irrelevant when it comes to how to balance the game now.Oneshots from stealth arent possible anymore, self-reveal in PvP was increased from 3 seconds to 4, and stealth attacks go on a 1 second cooldown if they miss. Also deadeye exists, a whole elitespec designed around landing stealth attacks. So yeah... your 5 years old experience doesn't matter. Me asking for a deadeye video was just trying to make a point that you can't possibly be useful against decently skilled(for me PvP starts at around 1600, everything below that is just newbies testing what their skills do) players with that change.This change would mostly punish the only elite spec that actually needs stealth attacks to land(deadeye), as literally noone else has stealth attacks. The suggestion is to make stealth attacks reveal, so I guess stealthing the party before the first midfight would mean the thief, the master of stealth eats reveal on the first attack(hit or miss doesn't matter), but the others can pound away into blindess, hitting aegis, into enemy evades, and they get to keep their stealth. Make it make sense?

The only people who want the system to remain as is are the people who don't understand why the lack of counterplay in the mechanic is currently bad for the game.

Oh. You are one of those people... make sure to scroll past this list REAL FAST, do not read what these skills are and in no circumstance click on any of the links if you want to keep beliveing in what you just said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackleshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spear_of_Justicehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Light%27s_Judgmenthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detection_Pulsehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On - this basicly counts as twohttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gaze_of_Darknesshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sight_beyond_Sighthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22On_My_Mark!%22https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether

What's next? Moonlanding was faked? G5 causes Covid-19? Stealth not having counters is just objectively false, and anyone who says this I cannot take seriously anymore. Learn the very basics of this game at least before you try to balance it.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Bazsi.2734" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detection_Pulse

Can't speak for the other skills. But detection pulse is basically useless for the simple fact that it is the toolbelt skill of utility goggles.And utility goggles is probably one of (if not the) worst skills in the game.

Untraited, this is a stunbreak with 2 seconds of resistance. No matter how you look at it, that is insanely weak, if you are using that skill then you are purposely putting yourself on a huge disadvantage. No sane person would consider to take this skill.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@"Bazsi.2734" said:The suggestion is to make stealth attacks reveal, so I guess stealthing the party before the first midfight would mean the thief, the master of stealth eats reveal on the first attack(hit or miss doesn't matter),

This is not what the OP is saying at all. He said reveal on evade/block, not reveal on whiff. Massive difference.

The only people who want the system to remain as is are the people who don't understand why the lack of counterplay in the mechanic is currently bad for the game.

Oh. You are one of those people... make sure to scroll past this list REAL FAST, do not read what these skills are and in no circumstance click on any of the links if you want to keep beliveing in what you just said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackles

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spear_of_Justice

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Light%27s_Judgment

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detection_Pulse

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On

- this basicly counts as two

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gaze_of_Darkness

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sight_beyond_Sight

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22On_My_Mark!%22

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether

Except that NONE of those skills actually counter the main problem of stealth, which is that reveal-on-hit promotes brainless and uninteractive gameplay. All those skills do is cause revealed, and many of them aren't even good for that. You don't seem to understand what this thread is truly about and are just defending a badly designed mechhanic because you personally like using it and don't want to take a step back and examine it objectively.

[Antioche.7034]

@Fueki.4753 said:Stealth should be removed when using any ability while in stealth, whether it's a utility, an attack or something else.Additionally, stealthed people should get revealed when being damaged from any source, including cleaves, damaging pulses and condition ticks.

Stealth in its current iteration is way too strong, but I can't see Arenanet bothering to change it.

That would be nonsense, to be blunt. Can aswell remove stealth altogether at this point.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@"Bazsi.2734" said:The suggestion is to make stealth attacks reveal, so I guess stealthing the party before the first midfight would mean the thief, the master of stealth eats reveal on the first attack(hit or miss doesn't matter),

This is not what the OP is saying at all. He said reveal on evade/block, not reveal on whiff. Massive difference.

He only said evade, later comments just added block later because why the F not. Massive difference.

The only people who want the system to remain as is are the people who don't understand why the lack of counterplay in the mechanic is currently bad for the game.

Oh. You are one of those people... make sure to scroll past this list REAL FAST, do not read what these skills are and in no circumstance click on any of the links if you want to keep beliveing in what you just said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackles

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spear_of_Justice

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Light%27s_Judgment

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detection_Pulse

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On

- this basicly counts as two

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gaze_of_Darkness

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sight_beyond_Sight

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22On_My_Mark!%22

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether

Except that NONE of those skills actually counter the main problem of stealth, which is that reveal-on-hit promotes brainless and uninteractive gameplay. All those skills do is cause revealed, and many of them aren't even good for that.

Well the goalpost just moved. You originally said "lack of counterplay in the mechanic" referring to stealth.And yes these skills do counter the main problem with stealth. If you hit thief with a reveal and delete it's massive 11K healthpool(thats literally 2 attacks from grenade kit), it won't have the opportunity to not do damage "spamming" stealth attacks into your blocks and evades.

You don't seem to understand what this thread is truly about and are just defending a badly designed mechhanic because you personally like using it and don't want to take a step back and examine it objectively.

Oh yes I do. People don't feel like dealing with stealth, so they just whinge about it. Badly designed is subjective, for example I find GW2-s stealth the best kind out of all of the MMO-s I played in my life. Balance is sometimes off(way off, core backstab thieves prior to february patch was a prime example), but balance and design are different things.

And it's funny to hear "take a step back and examine it objectively" from someone who still has mains in 2020. I dropped that archaic WoW-like way of playing the game in 2013. If you want to improve in PvP, you have to play all 9 classes on all metabuilds, so you can learn their rotations, combos, cooldowns and counters. Even the ones you can't stand.If you do not play literally everything, your risk of having a flawed perspective is even greater. Which clearly shows in these balance threads.We do not balance by "whats bad for the game". The whole relese of PoF was bad for PvP: deadeye is a meme, soulbeast was just a P2W addon for core ranger with damage modifiers, spellbreaker may be the only exception, and the rest always devolves into brainless AoE spam. If you want to rework stealth attacks because it's "bad for the game", also rework the whole of PoF, because it sure as hell wasn't designed with PvP in mind.

So yeah, asking for a nerf on an elite spec that does not need one is notsmart. It's like asking for spellbreaker to do even less damage or for holo to have more sustain. Just drop it.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Bazsi.2734" said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detection_Pulse

Can't speak for the other skills. But detection pulse is basically useless for the simple fact that it is the toolbelt skill of utility goggles.And utility goggles is probably one of (if not the) worst skills in the game.

Untraited, this is a stunbreak with 2 seconds of resistance. No matter how you look at it, that is insanely weak, if you are using that skill then you are purposely putting yourself on a huge disadvantage. No sane person would consider to take this skill.

Thx for the comment, irrelevant to my point though. You can always balance skills to make them weaker/stronger, my point was that stealth has a hardcounter by design, here are the list of skills applying reveal.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Stealth just needs the Superspeed treatment and not stack but override each previous application, or alternatively you can't reapply it until youve been revealed and every time you exit stealth you're auto revealed. DE can chain stealth as much as they want and even have a reveal removal tool. Most reveal skills are trash, so stop going 'But reveal exists!' when they're pretty useless. Stealth has been broken since the beginning, stop being in denial.

[Bazsi.2734]

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Stealth just needs the Superspeed treatment and not stack but override each previous application, or alternatively you can't reapply it until youve been revealed and every time you exit stealth you're auto revealed. DE can chain stealth as much as they want and even have a reveal removal tool. Most reveal skills are trash, so stop going 'But reveal exists!' when they're pretty useless. Stealth has been broken since the beginning, stop being in denial.

Agree, being in stealth for 20-30 seconds, and essentially forcing your team to 4v5 for half a minute is really too OP. Nerf 4v5, can't deal!It also goes well with the "stop being predictible" advice. Nothing makes you more unpredictable than the unability to stack stealth beyond 3 seconds. What would skills like Shadow Refuge, or mesmer traits like Prismatic Understanding even do? This game has skills/traits applying stealth durations from 1 second to 10 seconds. Which one would be the cap?Also if some reveal skills are trash, use the ones that aren't? And if all of them are trash, maybe advocate for buffs. It's a balance issue, but you guys keep trying to blur things to make it into a design issue. It's not.STeAlTh hAs bEEn FinE sInCE thE BeGInNiNg, StOp bEiNG iN dENiaL!

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Stealth just needs the Superspeed treatment and not stack but override each previous application, or alternatively you can't reapply it until youve been revealed and every time you exit stealth you're auto revealed. DE can chain stealth as much as they want and even have a reveal removal tool. Most reveal skills are trash, so stop going 'But reveal exists!' when they're pretty useless. Stealth has been broken since the beginning, stop being in denial.

Agree, being in stealth for 20-30 seconds, and essentially forcing your team to 4v5 for half a minute is really too OP. Nerf 4v5, can't deal!It also goes well with the "stop being predictible" advice. Nothing makes you more unpredictable than the unability to stack stealth beyond 3 seconds. What would skills like Shadow Refuge, or mesmer traits like Prismatic Understanding even do? This game has skills/traits applying stealth durations from 1 second to 10 seconds. Which one would be the cap?Also if some reveal skills are trash, use the ones that aren't? And if all of them are trash, maybe advocate for buffs. It's a balance issue, but you guys keep trying to blur things to make it into a design issue. It's not.STeAlTh hAs bEEn FinE sInCE thE BeGInNiNg, StOp bEiNG iN dENiaL!

What you do or happens because you camp stealth is irrelevant, it shouldn't be possible in the first place so that's one strawman out of the way.

Shadow Refuge would become a single stack of stealth since you can't leave the AoE until it's finished anyway and any subsequent applications with lower durations are just ignored and wasted, or they all get wasted until you've left stealth.

Not all classes even have reveal skills and most of them being bad means most classes have no viable access to reveal, so saying to use the ones that aren't bad is as pointless as saying 'Just dodge'.

It's absolutely a design issue, the fact there is little to no counterplay or DE having tools to counter the counterplay is a design issue. Stealth in this game is badly designed. Period.

[Bazsi.2734]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Stealth just needs the Superspeed treatment and not stack but override each previous application, or alternatively you can't reapply it until youve been revealed and every time you exit stealth you're auto revealed. DE can chain stealth as much as they want and even have a reveal removal tool. Most reveal skills are trash, so stop going 'But reveal exists!' when they're pretty useless. Stealth has been broken since the beginning, stop being in denial.

Agree, being in stealth for 20-30 seconds, and essentially forcing your team to 4v5 for half a minute is really too OP. Nerf 4v5, can't deal!It also goes well with the "stop being predictible" advice. Nothing makes you more unpredictable than the unability to stack stealth beyond 3 seconds. What would skills like Shadow Refuge, or mesmer traits like Prismatic Understanding even do? This game has skills/traits applying stealth durations from 1 second to 10 seconds. Which one would be the cap?Also if some reveal skills are trash, use the ones that aren't? And if all of them are trash, maybe advocate for buffs. It's a balance issue, but you guys keep trying to blur things to make it into a design issue. It's not.STeAlTh hAs bEEn FinE sInCE thE BeGInNiNg, StOp bEiNG iN dENiaL!

What you do or happens because you camp stealth is irrelevant, it shouldn't be possible in the first place so that's one strawman out of the way.

Define strawman please. I don't think you know what that word means, because you did not deal with any strawman argument, you dismissed a real one. Camping stealth is a tactical error any stealth heavy build can fall into making. Why would you want to remove their ability to misplay? That would fit right into the hand-holdy dumbing down of the game, but I prefere more options and more possible ways to fail. So yeah, it definitely should be possible to stack stealth.

Shadow Refuge would become a single stack of stealth since you can't leave the AoE until it's finished anyway and any subsequent applications with lower durations are just ignored and wasted, or they all get wasted until you've left stealth.

I am amazed you actually typed that out. I expected an idea for a rework or something. But you just straight up admitted it would become a useless skill. Thats kind of an indirect admission that you do not care about actual balance. You just want things you don't like gone.

Not all classes even have reveal skills and most of them being bad means most classes have no viable access to reveal, so saying to use the ones that aren't bad is as pointless as saying 'Just dodge'.

An ideal team has 5 different builds, most likely different classes. If you(as a team) CBA to swith one support skill or reroll to dragonhunter/powerrev/powerranger, that's on you. And even so, as I said, you can advocate to buffs to reveal skills. But nah, thats dumb, my stealth stacking REEEEEE.Also 'just dodge' actually applies here. Be it a meme soulbest, shatter mesmer, deadeye... one dodge is all it takes to avoid certain death. This is literally when all you need to do is JUST DODGE.

It's absolutely a design issue, the fact there is little to no counterplay or DE having tools to counter the counterplay is a design issue. Stealth in this game is badly designed. Period.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - I'm not trying to imply anything political here, just funny how this fits. Google at your own risk. Period.

[Yasai.3549]

@Justine.6351 said:

well if you know when to dodge you should know how to kite it without having to dodge it.

Not like Thief is the most mobile Profession in the game or anything.

And kiting an invisible enemy?HA! EASY!

[Justine.6351]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

well if you know when to dodge you should know how to kite it without having to dodge it.

Not like Thief is the most mobile Profession in the game or anything.

And kiting an invisible enemy?HA! EASY!

See with your mind not with your eyes young padawan.