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October 13th 2020 balance patch - This is what we get


Trevor Boyer.6524

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@UNOwen.7132 said:Nerfing Grenade Kit is still stupid. Core Engineer is struggling as is. They were right to not touch Grenade kit (though I wish they tuned it up a bit for the sake of core Engineer). Most of these changes seem fine tbh. The thief ones do literally nothing, but hey, if it gets people to shut up about stealth for 5 seconds, its already worth it.

ah, UNOwen, the valiant and unyielding defender of the two strongest classes in the game, engi and thief

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Nerfing Grenade Kit is still stupid. Core Engineer is struggling as is. They were right to not touch Grenade kit (though I wish they tuned it up a bit for the sake of core Engineer). Most of these changes seem fine tbh. The thief ones do literally nothing, but hey, if it gets people to shut up about stealth for 5 seconds, its already worth it.

ah, UNOwen, the valiant and unyielding defender of the two strongest classes in the game, engi and thief

Im not saying Holo shouldnt be nerfed. Quite the opposite, these are good Holo nerfs. Im saying Grenade kit shouldnt be nerfed. Since yknow. Core Engineer isnt broken and relies on it? As for thief, there are no nerfs that can make thief less mandatory without making them useless, and these nerfs in particular do literally nothing but get people to shut up about a mechanic they fixate on for some godforsaken reason.

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Is the parent company publicly traded? Can I buy shares and raise pvp issues at the quarterly report conference calls? Or do I have to be an institutional shareholder to be able to ask questions? I wanna ask what's OP in pvp in front of banks, private equity firms and large shareholders. Don't ban my comment Anet. My Amex Platinum loves you.

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@Pimsley.3681 said:Is the parent company publicly traded? Can I buy shares and raise pvp issues at the quarterly report conference calls? Or do I have to be an institutional shareholder to be able to ask questions? I wanna ask what's OP in pvp in front of banks, private equity firms and large shareholders. Don't ban my comment Anet. My Amex Platinum loves you.

Yeah it's funny you mention that. Balance decisions and even balance complaints/responses such as posted in this thread from weird multi accounts no one has ever seen before are beginning to get strangely titled towards completely unfounded nonsense.

You can seriously post a link to a video displaying a complete documentary on how some said given class has almost no representation in top 100 play or AT teams and why, and you'll still have players gold 1 complain about it, and then see it get nerfed in the next patch whilst something that is clearly overperforming in top 20 player & ATs is left completely untouched.

I dunno man, things have gotten weird in 2020.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’ll just say one thing. Any build that involved symbols is instantly dead because of the change, where it was only out performing other builds as a side noder due to the fact that the damage was better, not even sustain- many builds had monster sustain and disengage compared to guard. So if the damage is the only thing over performing just tweak those symbol modifiers and the damage for the accelerated burns. Now it will just mechanically awkward and even less viable than it is now.

It's just like the people who complain about Ranger. They don't play higher ratings and they don't make it to final rounds of ATs. If they did, they'd realize Core Guard wasn't even a problem to begin with.

Just another disparity of difference between how things perform bellow the bell curve & above, and how that effects forum discussion opinion of what needs to be fixed.

^ Everything always comes right back around to that.

its not really the same because symbols was a braindead build with way too much reward for effort even on high level (just not in organised 5v5)

Comparing decap druid value to holo is kekw

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The only thing that surprises me is the battered wife syndrome on full display. Yes, the patch sucks, who knew? It's not like this has been nearly the ENTIRE HISTORY of Anet's PvP. Didn't OP quit publicly and then, as everyone predicted, come back to get beaten into submission by this game all over again? Even says he'll buy the next expac, rewarding Anet for how they've botched their game?

PvP balance will never change. It will never truly get better. The next expac will ruin any and all changes they make for the rest of this expac's lifetime. It will always be 3 or maybe 5 (on a good patch) braindead EZ mode classes that stomp all over everything. This game will always be a disaster of noob traps and false choices since 90% of the runes, skills, and possible builds are all garbage. It has been this way since the dawn of GW2, with maybe only very few patches that were slightly better.For the mental sanity of all those reading - play something else. If you like the game, try PvE. If not, there's mountains of other games. At this point flipping Dota is more ofan action RPG than this game and you can have teammates ruin your matches there too.

Just stop rewarding Anet with your time and money. Every time you log in, you tell these people you approve of their approach to PvP balance and content. As long as you guys continue to reward these behaviors they will never change. They always say the exact same things, too. "This time we'll have changes more often", "don't worry things will get better", no they don't. They never do. If PvP dies out, then so be it. Anet will reap what they sow and you'll be freed from this curse.

Why continue to PvP, when all there is is disappointment? At this point, considering all the matchmaker does is raise your blood pressure, PvP is actively killing you. Let the expac release to deafening silence, and maybe then something will change. After all these years, this nothing patch is exactly what the masochist remainder of the PvP community deserve. It's all its ever asked for, actually. Whining on forums doesn't matter, users logging in and buying things do. No matter how well founded and articulated your criticisms are, for Anet it's all hot air. After all these posts telling Anet what they've done wrong, in 15 minutes you're back in the mists beating your head against a rock and wondering why your head hurts while Anet laughs that they've got "loyal" players who keep playing despite the team doing actually nothing for months on end.

When the new expac comes out, will I see the same users whining about the exact same issues all over again? Maybe the classes on top will change around but it's the same ride, just with a new coat of paint. This social experiment is fascinating. Just how much abuse can an MMO gamer endure? Apparently, it's infinite. If only we could turn it into energy.

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Ooooooh there was a balance part of the patch??Honestly didnt notice.

Also on an on track post remark, Why do we have to wait months upon months between patches for issues bought up years ago to be changed?

Is it just me or were we all left under the false impression that anet was going to be doing regular (monthly) changes to pvp balance on a moderate scale, making the meta fluid and ever changing.

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@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Now that Guard is out, whose head is next on the chopping block? Come on, forum warriors! It's been six hours since "patch" already! Time to demand more ridiculous nerfs to other classes.

Reaper and suddenly Soulbeast, probably. Reaper is in special danger because 3v3 season and it's very much supposed to shine there as it is a teamfight build, so expect to see a ton of whining about it. Soulbeast, idk, I guess someone posted a nice montage of class not being utterly trash and now it's too much? Gathering from a vibe check that is.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:Maybe they did not address other things in this patch because other things can't be changed isolated and they will change them in a patch that fixes a lot of things. Lich for example is a skill that currently differentiates whether core necro is viable or not (the spec is currently a lich dependent one trick pony). So it should be nerfed at the same time core necro gets some compensations elsewhere. And such an update is nothing that can be done in a hotfix patch.

And I know you don't like to hear that ;) , but soulbeast needs a huge shave in damage multipiers. But of course regarding this too there have to be some compensations elsewhere.

But maybe they are just incompetent... who knows.

Yes well soul-beast needs some shaves, core and druid do not. But knowing A-net core will get smashed with nerfs and the spec soul-beast will be left untouched.

Why is everyone on about Soulbeast all of a sudden? This class is mid tier to bottom at this point. Truly. it's not used in Ranked and it isn't used in ATs either. A Soulbeast has to blow every CD it has to land a burst on a 60s interval, that is only slightly higher than What a Ren is doing now on a 15s interval, or a Holosmith is doing with a single toss of a Grenade Barrage.

Damage is literally the only thing that Soulbeast has left. And it can't even brawl with Holo or Ren. It has to deal that damage from far away with an incoming approach before it can consider to stop and stay on node with those classes. And if we are not talking use of One Wolf Pack, the Soulbeasts damage is no longer even comparable to other classes.

Ranger is weak right now. I am the only person in NA who has been using Ranger based builds in ATs for months and months at this point. And when I say that, I mean plat+ players, not all wecome silver join groups.

Hop off the Ranger nerf suggestions and chill out on the paradigm shift please.

no please keep complaining i love seeing the ranger victim compex come out from two randoms qq on forums its v entertaining

Un-related but I hate how because I was quoted, it tells me when you quote the guy who quoted me. I was like "Oh no, what did I do this time" when I checked this morning lmfao.

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@Gogdarth.6741 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Now that Guard is out, whose head is next on the chopping block? Come on, forum warriors! It's been six hours since "patch" already! Time to demand more ridiculous nerfs to other classes.

Reaper and suddenly Soulbeast, probably. Reaper is in special danger because 3v3 season and it's very much supposed to shine there as it is a teamfight build, so expect to see a ton of whining about it. Soulbeast, idk, I guess someone posted a nice montage of class not being utterly trash and now it's too much? Gathering from a vibe check that is.

Yeah I noticed as well about the video. But it was never noted or pointed out that the people exploding in the video must have all been low golds or lower, or at the best it was montage of 15 minutes of the someone's best lucky gank moments out of several hundreds of games and hundreds of hours of play. In other words, those moments like that don't happen so often but a good montage can make a build look like it's loading into matches and handing out 1shots left & right every game all game. Believe me, I know. I was the person that started the "Soulbeast Ganking" videos about 2 years ago. I was actually surprised and slightly offended that the guy tried to use my calling card and started tossing around the term Gank for his build & video ^^ w/e I don't care.

And of course his video doesn't show how hard he's getting rolled by: Holosmiths, Power Heralds, and tanky Ranger variants which actually completely counter DPS Ranger variants, when he is in more competitive matches with say top 100 players or in AT finals. Because lemme tell ya, that's what happens to Soulbeast DPS. And even against certain other classes, at the best you can equal them in 1v1s: Spellbreaker, Core Guards, Condi Rev or Rens, Scrappers, all Mes builds, all Ele builds. The only things that really get countered by Soulbeast DPS gimmick when players are of equal skill, are Necromancer variants & Thief variants. This is because Necros are too slow and have no straight invulns or blocks which means they have to eat burst, and Thieves rely too much on stealth which gets countered by Sic Em reveal. Every other class truthfully and I swear to god in a non biased statement, absolutely have what they need to meet a Soulbeast on equal footing or hard counter it.

But people will quickly forget about any current Soulbeast complaints or at the very least it won't be fueled, when its class representation bottoms out during the 3v3 season. Ranger, along with Thief & Mes, are garbage in the 2v2 3v3 tiny arenas. They don't provide enough team support splash and they can't well utilize their mobility in the small areans, which is pretty much required for survivability vs. any competent players.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Believe me, I know. I was the person that started the "Soulbeast Ganking" videos about 2 years ago. I was actually surprised and slightly offended that the guy tried to use my calling card and started tossing around the term Gank for his build & video ^^ w/e I don't care.

Even if it is imitation, that's the greatest form of flattery, not a ripoff, lmao. I'd honestly would rather congratulate the guy on bringing something not so hopeless into this forum for once in ages, we need more of those "imitations" around here. These make people actually take interest in playing PvP because it looks cool. Little bit of spectacle never hurt anyone, and poster himself was quick to point out that it is just +1'ing and nothing mind-boggling, just highlights.

That being said, I mean, Soulbeast isn't utter trash, but it is pretty trash as you say. Mostly because now to reach this damage you can't really run anything remotely defensive, give up practically everything for the bursting (which revolves around pretty much most of your skills at once going on CD) and you have to micromanage a plethora of conditional +% increases, and while yes, it is +100whatever% on paper, let's be very real for readers at home - managing that and keeping it in mind is annoying. It's a clunky, glassy build, that pretends it's some sort of Deadeye with a big sword as Ol' Reliable when the pew pew goes sideways (which is often), but with far less stealth to spam and lower mobility to boot. Oh, and can we talk about how most of the pets are straight up trash?

That reminds me of a funny parallel with a certain dead class, that too, gave up most of it's CDs to "one-shot" people and mainly did +1'ing. Not going to mention it, because you do not speak ill of the dead, but just putting it out there for reader's consideration. I'd rather see less classes in "never played unless masochism" category than more.

More worried for Reaper atm than this, though, because some of the suggestions as to it's nerfs I've read around here are atrocious - when imo it could actually use a bit of a tweak up in one or two skills, while Lich just needs to go as well as other transform skills in the game overall besides Moa. None of them are good or healthy.

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The 23% sevenshot nerf was nice.Decap scrapper and symbol guard - thankfully - getting deleted is also much appreciated.

Holo "nerfs" were... "Meh" at best.Holo overall lost 6 mightstacks, which is nice I guess, but not even remotely good enough.

The thief stealth duration nerf seems okay.

For a "hotfix" patch, those changes are acceptable. Unfortunately powerlevels between different classes are still majorly fked tho, so while those changes are welcome, it's a far cry from "fixing the game mode". We need a dedicated balance patch at this point and not some band-aids.

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