GuriGashi.5617 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 All current Revenant specs (Renegade, Herald and even Core Rev) overperform with a combination of high AoE damage, both condition and power, coupled with unholy movement and sustain in form of boons like protection & resistance, damage avoiding skills which are pretty much spammable, low cooldown blocks, and two kitten heal skills. The problem that arises is that Revenants pretty much can freely choose whether they run offensive or defensive stats without losing too much on the opposite end - meaning they can pack high damage Berserker/Demolisher builds without getting too squishy or extremely defensive, tanky Mender/Sage builds without loosing too much damage.Here a solution - Revenant sustain needs further nerfing. Not only should alot of their beloved defensive traits be toned down and the cost + effectiveness of damage avoiding & movement enhancing skills be adjusted - using one heal skill should simply put the other one on cooldown, it even goes without saying - 2 heal skills was a problem even before all damage modifiers went down in February - now that the damage is low it is even more broken. I feel not considering that is a big oversight on ArenaNets end when they patched the game in Feburary. Using an already good heal skill in Soothing Stones or hitting the restart button known as Glint Heal and walking into already casted AoE’s should not reward you with another heal skill right afterAs long as Revenants are able to be (semi-) tanks, no matter which amulet they are running, they will dominate each and every meta
noiwk.2760 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 i think herald is legit fairly weak.. already it can only do +1 and isnt even the best at it..it has good burst but low damage overall. the sustain got trashed..when it comes to renegade i agree.. renegade is amazingly strong but i think there are bigger issues xD
GuriGashi.5617 Posted November 14, 2020 Author Posted November 14, 2020 @noiwk.2760 said:i think herald is legit fairly weak.. already it can only do +1 and isnt even the best at it..it has good burst but low damage overall. the sustain got trashed..when it comes to renegade i agree.. renegade is amazingly strong but i think there are bigger issues xD No man, if a Herald hits like a Berserker Warrior (and even worse through ports) he also should go down as fast as a Berserker warrior
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Rev/Herald is fine, all forms of it.Ren right now is just plainly overperforming in too many categories to let it slide any further than the next patch. You'll hear a lot of conjecture on this topic concerning what should be nerfed yada yada. IMO though, it's the taunt. The taunt makes that entire build work. The taunt is what makes it dangerous. If it weren't for that frequent powerful 1200 range taunt, the build would be easily kited and it would be balanced.
noiwk.2760 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @snoow.1694 said:@"noiwk.2760" said:i think herald is legit fairly weak.. already it can only do +1 and isnt even the best at it..it has good burst but low damage overall. the sustain got trashed..when it comes to renegade i agree.. renegade is amazingly strong but i think there are bigger issues xD No man, if a Herald hits like a Berserker Warrior (and even worse through ports) he also should go down as fast as a Berserker warriori disagree because the issue isnt herald.. the issue is warrior being trash right now..i dont mean to be harsh but its a fact that warrior is dead right now.. the "cc= no damage"hit warrior too hard and warrior isnt even playable right now.. lets be honest aside from heal (support spellbreaker)or support core warrior.. no one really play warrior.. and warrior is actually the best support in game right now.its a sad situation for warrior and i think it will be sad if herald will be dead like warrior because herald support isnt even a thing people will jsut stop playing herald.also herald isnt so hard to kill.. its not tanky but it does have some evasion kits like staff and like sword 3 ult can save his life and his amazing healing skill..but on its core its even more glass cannon than wariror but it has more sustainbut again herald is fine but warrior is way too weak and its a known issue
GuriGashi.5617 Posted November 14, 2020 Author Posted November 14, 2020 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Rev/Herald is fine, all forms of it.Ren right now is just plainly overperforming in too many categories to let it slide any further than the next patch. You'll hear a lot of conjecture on this topic concerning what should be nerfed yada yada. IMO though, it's the taunt. The taunt makes that entire build work. The taunt is what makes it dangerous. If it weren't for that frequent powerful 1200 range taunt, the build would be easily kited and it would be balanced.I feel like you say Herald is fine, because Renegade is worse. Once Renegades are done Heralds will do the same harassment to the community. Renegade just gets played more often, because it is more convenient. They share the same characteristic of high damage + high sustain through the mentioned defensive capabilities. I remember times before Renegade took off where teams packed 2/3 Heralds and that was just as bad. If he is a tank, he should do damage like a tank - if he is glasscanon he should go down like a glasscanon
noiwk.2760 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @snoow.1694 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Rev/Herald is fine, all forms of it.Ren right now is just plainly overperforming in too many categories to let it slide any further than the next patch. You'll hear a lot of conjecture on this topic concerning what should be nerfed yada yada. IMO though, it's the taunt. The taunt makes that entire build work. The taunt is what makes it dangerous. If it weren't for that frequent powerful 1200 range taunt, the build would be easily kited and it would be balanced.I feel like you say Herald is fine, because Renegade is worse. Once Renegades are done Heralds will do the same harassment to the community. Renegade just gets played more often, because it is more convenient. They share the same characteristic of high damage + high sustain through the mentioned defensive capabilities. I remember times before Renegade took off where teams packed 2/3 Heralds and that was just as bad. If he is a tank, he should do damage like a tank - if he is glasscanon he should go down like a glasscanonherald is fine because its just fine.. its not even that good anymore..
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 People still play Core Rev?????? Shao! What shenanigans are you pulling??????
Mega.5791 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Herald is still pretty strong - however, it lacks a place in the current meta. That's why is is seldomly seen. I struggles with those heavy bunkery teamfights with random CC (Tempest and now Healbreaker). Thief does a way better job with those with all the unblockables and, yes, better mobility to play aroung them of course. Renegade with a AoE heavy, ranged option on sides probably doesn't help either.So while it is not OP in the current meta, it will reemerge once the bunkery teamfights get reduced. It also still keeps all those bunker breakers in check together with thif - heavy zerker builds could break Tempest/Healbreaker, but still simply melt to those two, which in turn makes the whole meta slower. Thinking of it, they hardcountering those bunker breakers kind of making themselves unviable... :lol: TLDR: Herald is fine when looking at the meta, but still strong. Not on the top of the list of necessary changes currently though. Renegade though does need tweaks.
GuriGashi.5617 Posted November 14, 2020 Author Posted November 14, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:People still play Core Rev?????? Shao! What shenanigans are you pulling??????Not only are they, but I already had ranked matches against Top 20 guys in high Plat using Core Rev last season in EU
ollbirtan.2915 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Both classes are fine. Leave them alone and try to adjust your play style accordingly. This mindset always helps me personally when I find some class "OP".
phokus.8934 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @"ollbirtan.2915" said:Both classes are fine. Leave them alone and try to adjust your play style accordingly. This mindset always helps me personally when I find some class "OP".But it’s easier to post on a forum to ask for nerfs than adjust.I mean c’mon, they’re asking for core rev nerfs.
Widmo.3186 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @"ollbirtan.2915" said:Both classes are fine. Leave them alone and try to adjust your play style accordingly. This mindset always helps me personally when I find some class "OP". Chronobunker from seasons 1-5 is fine, pls bring it back.
ollbirtan.2915 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @Widmo.3186 said:@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Both classes are fine. Leave them alone and try to adjust your play style accordingly. This mindset always helps me personally when I find some class "OP". Chronobunker from seasons 1-5 is fine, pls bring it back. Yes, I don't mind. We need to bring back diversity.
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @snoow.1694 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:People still play Core Rev?????? Shao! What shenanigans are you pulling??????Not only are they, but I already had ranked matches against Top 20 guys in high Plat using Core Rev last season in EUOkay, so in what ways does this justify nerfing legend heals? You realize that Rev has never had any way of reducing the CD of their heals besides alacrity, right?Every heal is 30 second CD and most are situational. Can't do damage? Shiro will barely heal you. People stop attacking you during Glint heal? Barely heals you. Aren't running Corruption? Poison neuters Mallyx's heal even though it's supposed to be boosted by condi. Ventari? LOL. The only truly consistent ones are Jalis and Kalla, and unsurprisingly they can make you pretty bulky when put together because they actually work without hinderance, but all of them are 30 seconds, no exceptions. This is the only situation where double heals could be an issue but Jalis/Kalla still gets dumpstered by condi. Perma weakness from DBT is what needs to be addressed on this build, not healing. Nobody runs shield except condi revs, staff barely heals anymore, Battle Scars is trickle healing and cuts into damage too much, nobody runs the regen trait in Herald. There are ways of getting smaller heals but they're just that, small heals that are only effective in drawn out fights.
Fueki.4753 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Guardians, Warriors, Rangers, Thieves, Engineers, Necromancers and Mesmers. are harassing PvP for eight years now - lets talk about some effective nerfsEverything, except maybe Elementalists, has the possibility to over-perform.On top of that, Revenants are way more limited in what they can do and how much they can do, by the Legend and Energy systems.I don't think Revenant deserves any nerfs, other than maybe preventing the stacking of Renegade spirits.But I don't know whether that's technically possible or not.
Dantheman.3589 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 I’m a fairly bad rev, though my mechanics, rotations , game knowledge etc are probably pretty high level, but I kindof agree- rev when it’s viable is usually loaded since it has 2 sets of heals + utilities which even if they cannot pick them are all very good and standard. Tone down the defense to compensate would be a good option imo and maybe it’ll force ppl to play fun builds like power shiro with sword/shield and staff even if renegade damage is still over the top
ollbirtan.2915 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @Fueki.4753 said:Guardians, Warriors, Rangers, Thieves, Engineers, Necromancers and Mesmers. are harassing PvP for eight years now - lets talk about some effective nerfsEverything, except maybe Elementalists, has the possibility to over-perform.On top of that, Revenants are way more limited in what they can do and how much they can do, by the Legend and Energy systems.I don't think Revenant deserves any nerfs, other than maybe preventing the stacking of Renegade spirits.But I don't know whether that's technically possible or not.It makes me sad when you mention ele.... Very true through. And guess why? Because the class was already nerfed to the ground - first fire weaver, and now tempest is being made irrelevant because how broken healSPB is. So yeah...let's nerf more classes, shall we?
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 If you think a class is overpowered, how about instead of hopping on the nerf train we have a calm and collected discussion on how to buff the other classes to have at least 1 build on par? :)
Vancho.8750 Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:If you think a class is overpowered, how about instead of hopping on the nerf train we have a calm and collected discussion on how to buff the other classes to have at least 1 build on par? :)Asking for BUFFs or reworks backfires terribly and it ends up in PVE specks cause Arenanet doesn't give a shit about PVP usually. Case and point Berserker.
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 @Vancho.8750 said:@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:If you think a class is overpowered, how about instead of hopping on the nerf train we have a calm and collected discussion on how to buff the other classes to have at least 1 build on par? :)Asking for BUFFs or reworks backfires terribly and it ends up in PVE specks cause Arenanet doesn't give a kitten about PVP usually. Case and point Berserker.Berserker was fun for a while before they declawed it.
lare.5129 Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 let them be powerful and superstrong. We have mmr system, so you can not worry about how powerful specific class. The system will get properly team for you, and will change rate multiple your skill and chossen class. So reve can be 5x stronger, it not change our gameplay.
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Vancho.8750 said:Asking for BUFFs or reworks backfires terribly and it ends up in PVE specks cause Arenanet doesn't give a kitten about PVP usually. Case and point Berserker.Berserker was fun for a while before they declawed it. I don't know anything about PvE, but in PvP I feel like this is true. The zerker buff actually made it more fun to play for a while especially since it came with the tradeoffs for that elite spec.Nerfs aren't bad like that, when they're made in tandem with buffs or simultaneously exist as both a nerf and a buff at once. Just nerfing and removing options/playstyles is boring. ?
Apolo.5942 Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 @lare.5129 said:let them be powerful and superstrong. We have mmr system, so you can not worry about how powerful specific class. The system will get properly team for you, and will change rate multiple your skill and chossen class. So reve can be 5x stronger, it not change our gameplay.This would be an interesting approach, since they are unable or unwilling to balance classes, have MR be character bound instead of account bound.
lare.5129 Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 @Apolo.5942 said:This would be an interesting approach, since they are unable or unwilling to balance classes, have MR be character bound instead of account bound.it is already done if you look more wide..
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