unhappy mac player - [Merged]

[zealex.9410]

@Vangalter.5210 said:So here's the thing, Apple's M-Series silicon is insanely good, GW2 performs decently under TWO layers of emulation: Rosetta2+Anet's, and this is the WORST silicon Apple is ever going to make for Macs.

There's 2 posibilites: 1) Apple drops support for OGL in a macOS update or 2) Apple drops support for OGL in newer M-Series silicon.For (1), i understand, the game hasn't been updated DX9 for windows, i dont expect it to be updated to Metal2 for the much smaller player base on Mac, i get it, but why not wait for the WWDC when it happens and announce it then? It's not like one and a half months is a long time; there's like 3-4 months between macOS dev beta and public release.

For (2) is something similar; if it's dropped on the new architectures, i get it, you want consistency and if it doesnt work on one Mac, it shouldnt work in any bc it could confuse costumers, fine; but we don't know that and same as the previous option, it can be checked before release and communicate it when it happens.

As far as i know, and apologies if im wildly oversimplifying, Anet just uses a wine wrapper for the Mac client, right? So it should be too difficult to just let continue to be for the time being since updates don't requiere a port to macOS. Or maybe they could delete the .dmg installer from the server and maybe block base game files from being downloaded from the Mac client and only allow updates to already-installed macs that are proven to work already? - this is probably too much hassle for the ROI it would produce, but still. :(

Or is it that maybe i missed the point? Maybe it's bc of those OGL issues they mention?

This is my favourite game of all time and now i wont be able to play it if it becomes a subscription-based game if i have to rent a computer just for it. :/

Wouldnt this be delaying the inevitable? In x time from now the same peoblems for you who wish to play the game will arise.

[ASP.8093]

Did some digging on compatibility-layer stuff (i.e. Wine wrappers) for folks who don't want to dual-boot.

There's a PlayOnLinux script, which could potentially be adapted to support PlayOnMac very quickly: https://www.playonmac.com/en/app-1126-Guild_Wars_2.html (DO NOT try to load that thing into PlayOnMac as-is unless you are confident in your own ability to debug it)Lutris also has a working config for GW2 on Linux — it's a different config system but you can look at their DX settings &c.: https://lutris.net/games/guild-wars-2/

My overall impression is that nobody's worked on Mac compatibility since the official client dropped, since there was no real payoff to doing so. Anything older than that also predates changes to the Win64 game client so it's not likely to be all that useful "out of the box."

I know the PortingKit folks have had some success experimenting with Rosetta (the Apple ARM compatibility thing) as well. If you're on the non-Intel machines you probably want to go read that.

UPDATE: I made my own really basic PortingKit wrapper and it's working ok so far. I'll poke at it some more to hopefully get a simple process in place by the February 18 drop-dead date.

[lare.5129]

@ASP.8093 said:There's a PlayOnLinux script, which could potentially be adapted to support PlayOnMac very quickly:PlayOnLinux not now works on new mac :))

I know the PortingKit folks have had some success experimenting with Rosetta (the Apple ARM compatibility thing) as well.Yes, some thing works, some not whit Rosetta

[lare.5129]

NOT PANIC:

[lare.5129]

one more demo, now on wvw, looks better:

[lare.5129]

rendering subsample and native difference .. if choose subsample is looks more playable

[lare.5129]

true GiuldWars2 player check in on mac m1

[Donari.5237]

@"dusanyu.4057" said:3 Arena net is not the first game dev to leave mac users in the dark over this Zenimax has also ended Mac support for Elder Scrolls online https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59187

Interesting, from that link, "Please be aware that these new ARM-based Macs cannot run software created for Intel-based computers. Additionally, these new machines will not support Boot Camp either, so you cannot dual boot an ARM-based Mac into Windows. This means that all software running on the new Macs must either be re-written for ARM or must run through an emulator. X86 emulation comes with a significant performance impact—in general, emulation is okay for software like office productivity apps, but not for gaming."

I've seen a lot of people offering the emulation solution. Now I'm worried that won't help the Mac users either. Though GW2 does generally run faster and better than ESO, so maybe it can handle the performance hit better.

[Donari.5237]

In the Accounts/Tech Support section there's a thread on this where someone linked the ESO blog article from November about ESO also ending Mac support based on this new chip issue. I posted this quote there but will add it here so it can reach more eyes and maybe help more people. By 'help' I mean 'give a heads up on the need to research solutions.' It applies to the new machines coming out, current Macs should still have options on ways to play GW2.

From the ESO Devs: "Please be aware that these new ARM-based Macs cannot run software created for Intel-based computers. Additionally, these new machines will not support Boot Camp either, so you cannot dual boot an ARM-based Mac into Windows. This means that all software running on the new Macs must either be re-written for ARM or must run through an emulator. X86 emulation comes with a significant performance impact—in general, emulation is okay for software like office productivity apps, but not for gaming."

[lare.5129]

so by last positive video we know what it was ok, but for some reason client will be removed. So may it it pressure from intel fan-club?

[Nephalem.8921]

@lare.5129 said:there is no any arrangement. There is platform. And one of business concepts true make wide, and keep update yourself and bring to ppl. If Apple update something - the good product update himself to bring it. I still don't understand why where is no good usable way to play as mane other game on andriod/macos..

Do you know how programming works? Android is a mobile OS. Also arm. They use their own graphics api. Well to be fair its vulkan and opengl but they are not the same versions as the desktop ones.MacOS does their own thing with metal. A bunch of open source solutions exist to make windows games run on linux. Could work on mac.And what I meant with mac hardware was that its not common to have very powerful graphic cards in imacs. Can you even get something like a 3080 or 6800xt inside one? Turns out nvidia cards arent even supported by mac.The only mac i saw that uses such a card is the imac which starts at 3.1k €. You could get a pc with the same specs for less than 1/3 of the price. Thats why gaming is so much more popular on pc.

[lare.5129]

@Donari.5237 said:In the Accounts/Tech Support section there's a thread on this where someone linked the ESO blog article from November about ESO also ending Mac supportdon't know how is rare it eso .. never try that unknown game .. but wow look s great

[lare.5129]

@Nephalem.8921 said:Do you know how programming works?yes. And you know how programming and Market works?

Android is

MacOS doesAndroid and MacOS is a market. If you not support that this is product problem, but not problem for Android or MacOS.

And what I meant with mac hardware was that its not common to have very powerful graphic cards in imacs. Can you even get something like a 3080 or 6800xt inside one?I don't care about big fps rate. We talk is it supported or not.

[ASP.8093]

Threw together a thread for specific guidelines on how to handle the transition over on the tech support forum:

[100% Unofficial] How to play GW2 on Mac OS after the Mac client is gone

TLDR: You can keep playing on your existing computer/OS if you are comfortable installing some wrapper apps and taking your chances a bit on whether the translation layers work correctly. Right now, those wrappers don't have nice "out-of-the-box" GW2 presets but that will probably change now that there's a need for them.

[lare.5129]

@Ashantara.8731 said:Dito. M$ is already bad enough with their monopolization of the market, but Apple is worse with their policies. Don't know why most designers believe they need to work on Apple computers - most of the software runs fine on other platforms.it come from power g4 old time then psh performance was more better then on intel.

[Nephalem.8921]

@lare.5129 said:Android and MacOS is a market. If you not support that this is product problem, but not problem for Android or MacOS.

If the market is split 95% - 5% and the 5% still does its own things when vulkan and opengl exist then its not the devs fault.I'm not even sure if you are serious about android. Thats a mobile os. There is no point in supporting android with a game like this.Genshin impact barely runs and it was developed for mobile. There is far less going on.

Why are you complaining here instead of on apples forums. Lots of games wouldnt work on windows if ms would drop openGl aswell. Not everything uses DirectX anymore. a lot of titles, especially indie titles, use vulkan or opengl. MS cant really do that afaik unless they just ban the software. Support comes with drivers. Drivers are not part of windows but they are part of macOS.

[lare.5129]

@Nephalem.8921 said:If the market is split 95% - 5% and the 5% still does its own things when vulkan and opengl exist then its not the devs fault.OS X 7+% in world, and 15% in USA. This is very big numbers.

I'm not even sure if you are serious about android. Thats a mobile os. There is no point in supporting android with a game like this.this is normal way to any mmo game - go to mobile, Lineage2 mobile, Path of Exile mobile .. all it already works on android, .. but let talk about macos and support

Why are you complaining here instead of on apples forums.read again: Android and MacOS is a market. If you not support that this is product problem, but not problem for Android or MacOS.

Not everything uses DirectX anymore. a lot of titles, especially indie titles, use vulkan or opengl. MS cant really do that afaik unless they just ban the software. Support comes with drivers.no. you don't read and don't look video on thread? IT is already works NOW. But will be off.

[crepuscular.9047]

OpenGL has been around for close to 30 years, and it's open-sourced, so this is an Apple issue for not adopting open-sourced API

[Nephalem.8921]

@"lare.5129" said:

I'm not even sure if you are serious about android. Thats a mobile os. There is no point in supporting android with a game like this.this is normal way to any mmo game - go to mobile, Lineage2 mobile, Path of Exile mobile .. all it already works on android, .. but let talk about macos and supportPath of exile is not not an mmo. Lineage2 works completely different aswell. Heck most pcs cant keep up with crowds how should a mobile device do it? There was probably something like gw mobile planned but they had to scrap it. Maybe it just didnt work.I hate this "go mobile" approach so much. Developing for mobile means cutting features almost always. There is a reason why a smartphone wow client doesnt exist.Why are you complaining here instead of on apples forums.read again: Android and MacOS is a market. If you not support that this is product problem, but not problem for Android or MacOS.

Not everything uses DirectX anymore. a lot of titles, especially indie titles, use vulkan or opengl. MS cant really do that afaik unless they just ban the software. Support comes with drivers.no. you don't read and don't look video on thread? IT is already works NOW. But will be off.

Have you read the anet post? Apple dropped openGl support. The client will just not work with newer macOS versions anymore unless its build around metal or vulkan which could use moltenVK then. I would like an engine rework which uses vulkan but that would require a lot more staff and time. Anet doesnt have the resources for this.It works now because openGl still works in this macOS version. It will not in the future anymore because of apple. Macs are not targeted at gamers at all. They cant compete there. Not even close. Rewriting the entire client to be compatible for 5% would be retarded when they could instead use vulkan or dx12 to increase to performance for the other 95%. The 7% marketshare you mentioned includes ipads and iphones doesnt it?

[lare.5129]

@"crepuscular.9047" said:OpenGL has been around for close to 30 years, and it's open-sourced, so this is an Apple issue for not adopting open-sourced APIyou wronghttps://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/jvlpmi/stardew_valley_an_opengl_game_runs_fine_on_apple/

[lare.5129]

@"Nephalem.8921" said:Path of exile is not not an mmo. Lineage2 works completely different aswell.I don't find any big difference in games where I play 5 years ...

here is a reason why a smartphone wow client doesnt exist.people already play it on mobile per streams. I dont hold hand, and don't check it my self.

Have you read the anet post? Apple dropped openGl support.existing Metal (and even OpenGL ) code can be run on top of Apple’s GPU todayproof: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested/3

It works now because openGl still works in this macOS version. It will not in the future anymore because of apple.so today it works, today it works on m1 also. When future will come let talk about it in future.

Macs are not targeted at gamers at all.giudlwars2 is not targeted for these gamers too. This is chill nice game for laptops and mac. it was.

They cant compete there.can what? it already works.

Not even close. Rewriting the entire client to be compatible for 5%15% not 5%. We talk about first world market. About USA. Not about Guinea Bissau county or etc.

The 7% marketshare you mentioned includes ipads and iphones doesnt it?iphones ? on smartphone market it now 52.4% in usa.https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/and I don't see any point mix that statistic wiht 3rd poor countrys, where pay only for expansion it some challenge.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

Tyria has been my second home for almost four years now. I will be sad to bid it goodbye. But I am on a Mac Mini from when they were still making them with 2014 specs, and still running Yosemite, and I knew that sooner or later the game would grow beyond my computer. The iffy Mac support has always made me feel like my days were numbered, anyway.

Once I'm locked out, I will probably format my GW2-dedicated SSD and see if I can run Boot Camp off it well enough to keep playing. (Or at all) If not...maybe see you some day when I get a PC. Apple is not the Apple I fell in love with way back when, and was debating switching anyway, and considering the state of the internet, what with Google, Facebook and Amazon, I can no longer find much hate for the Microsoft Empire.

Gonna try to finish Exordium and get in as much roller beetle racing as I can meanwhile.

[Halandir.3609]

@tetmikem.5608 said:

Very true but...

1. On a tight budget
2. Likes to play computergames
3. Choosing a Macbook as first and only platformPriorities - Get them straight!

People do have to prioritise, just cause someone chose a Mac and also likes to play GW2 does not mean they have kitten priorities. I don't quite get your point. People buy computers for other reasons than gaming, even if they enjoy gaming.I play on a Macbook because I was doing a lot of photography and when I bought this laptop 6 years ago it was the only real option to go with. Luckily it is also decent enough to play GW2. Are you saying that anyone who decided to get a Mac at some point in the past should also be able to afford to get a Windows system too if they want to also play games? And they should have expected that they should do this?

I am not trying to define what anyone should be able to afford. I am saying that most people need to prioritize. Your choice 6 years ago may have been perfectly in line with your specific priorities but most people, options, life (and priorities) change over the years.If you cannot afford to buy a gaming PC (or simply prefer to stick with your macbook) then your (supported) options seems to be: Bootcamp or parallels. Both of these requires a windows license and if you want to stay inside Mac OS X you also need a parallels license. The licenses alone is about half the price of a windows laptop that would perform a lot better than your 6-year old mac, but hey: Priorities!And to be blunt: If I want two things and one excludes the other because of ressources... Then I need to get my priorities straight!

[Sol.6340]

Instead of attacking us, consider being sympathetic that one day we were able to login and play a game that we loved to play and the next, we were told we weren't a valued member of the game ecosystem. You're all missing the point. This is Mac players saying, we're part of the group that loves to play this game. We're stuck. Many of us can't afford to pay a subscription, or buy a PC or whatever to keep playing and we are (collectively) upset, disappointed, and angry. IF IT WAS A PC VERSION THAT WAS BEING DISCONTINUED WITH LITTLE TO NO WARNING, WOULDN'T YOU BE UPSET AS WELL?

[Veprovina.4876]

@lare.5129 said:

@"crepuscular.9047" said:OpenGL has been around for close to 30 years, and it's open-sourced, so this is an Apple issue for not adopting open-sourced APIyou wrong

https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/jvlpmi/stardew_valley_an_opengl_game_runs_fine_on_apple/

Unfortunately that's not the point. Yes it works for now. But, and i quote Anet:

"In 2018, Apple ended support for the OpenGL graphics technology that Guild Wars 2 uses on the Mac. While games and other software that rely on OpenGL still work for now, Apple has made it clear that this will not always be the case in new OS versions. They have also stopped actively fixing problems on Mac OS related to OpenGL, including graphics hardware driver issues. "

It may not work for much longer. Apple stop fixing any problems with OpenGL on their systems, dropped support for it, and while it's still there in a kind of "legacy" capacity, it might not be for much longer. That's the problem, the "what next", not "how it is now"... Anet, and many others can't bank on OpenGL working and it's not a good idea to base your support on assumptions.

As for the other Apple stuff like a new chip and Metal (i think?) API, that requires a re-write of the code to work with that. Anet just doesn't have the resources to do it.It is what it is, and you have only Apple to blame.

This is the price of exclusivity as opposed to inclusivity. Apple wants to have an exclusive club of users, devs and their ecosystem, but that unfortunately means that not everyone is invited. That's what you pay for. A cool secure OS and app ecosystem that's entirely under Apple's control with no chance of any "unwanted" software on it. It just so happens that Guild Wars 2 falls under "unwanted" because they use OpenGL.