Don't like the POF expansion area's very much.

[zealex.9410]

Not sure why would more complex map design not be mmo like or why would it be more sp like, its very much detached from what makes mmos mmos and what makes sp rpgs sp rpgs.

Personally i prefer the hot map style because exploration is a learning orocess and not smth you do once and you never forget it, its also so much more immersive and fun to move around and find new bits you previously didnt know existed. I really hope eod takes alot of inspiration from hot.

I do agree with the mob aggro complain in pof tho, i would prefer the pack and aggro ring design of gw1 to this weird every mod is socially distancing style. Also why arent there neutral mobs?

[Joote.4081]

I would hurl myself into a gang of hydras for a lentil. I never fare that well and am wondering if it's worth it.

[Joote.4081]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Maikimaik.1974 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@Maikimaik.1974 said:

@Joote.4081 said:It all started to go wrong with the destroy the cannons mission. It wasn't that it was hard it was down to everything respawning the minute you killed them. Your suppose to pick up the explosives to destroy the cannon. To much like hard work as every time you threw one a npc would respawn in it's path. I think they had tried to do this instance inside the normal game (not a instance). Result was a broken mess.Right of the main camp mission doesn't tell you who the sentry's are, confusion. This instance looks to be made for 3, you and your 2 companions. When they stop working or disappear completely you are on your own against bosses and continually respawning enemy. Not so much hard but given the enemy has the ability to keep knocking you down while sniping from afar, pretty s***.They need to fix stuff they already in place before moving forward with expansions. All this broken stuff is building up and will get to the point the game will lose it's credibility.Look at the thread ' Visual clutter' a problem that's been around forever but never addressed.I'm slowly coming to terms with HOTs but this POF, well....

Strange how a company can put out stuff of extremely high quality such as the raptor mount, but then throw out really bad slap-dash stuff.

I feel like PoF just isn't your kind of thing.I know that this is such a cliche answer to someone who's complaining, but it seems like you don't really enjoy core game mechanics? (Not just because of this specific comment). Or maybe you just don't really have a full grasp on how to play this game, as you seem to struggle a lot with fairly doable stuff (You're saying that the stuff isn't difficult but your issues clearly say otherwise...)PoF is arguably one of the easiest content in the game, especially compared to HoT. So maybe you don't enjoy PoF because... well, it's simply not whats fun to you. That's fine, not everyone is going to like everything, but that doesn't mean the game is bad or broken.

It's true that I do find some of the story missions hard and die in some of them repeatedly,

but that's due to the fact they shove a level 80 boss into them straight out of a dungeon raid meant for a party of 250 that one shot you.

It doesn't help much when your NPC team is beyond useless and only gets in the way. :)

I think they count your NPC team in with the party when they should be deducting them as you would be better off without them.

They don't. I didn't have any problems with the story missions when I did them a couple of years ago. and I'm by no means great at this game. That's why I said that I feel like you might not have a full grasp on how to play "good" (really not trying to be offensive here, sorry :( ).All of the story missions are designed for solo play. Maybe you don't understand a boss mechanic? Maybe you don't dodge effectively? Maybe your build is really subotipmal? I really don't know what the issue is. Yes, some story bosses take a bit too long to kill, but they really shouldn't be able to one shot you whatsoever unless you're completely ignoring mechanics.

Maybe you don't understand a boss mechanic? That bit made me laugh. I know boss mechanics in TESO. I know boss mechanics in FFXIV. I even know boss mechanics in wow. But I have yet to learn a boss mechanic in GW2 unless it's told to me. Reason is, you have to see it to absorb it, and It's a good idea to shut your eyes in a GW2 boss fight to prevent damaging your eyes. :)

You're dying and running into respawn issues in open world/story missions. Let's just be honest and say that there is room for improvement here. I had played WoW for years before I tried GW2. The core game even fooled me into thinking I was picking it up quickly! Then I started HoT and it became clear that I didn't know as much as I thought I did. The combat in this game is not just about knowing a few boss mechanics. The nuances of timing, positioning, rotation, etc. really require months or even years of play to master and even then you can always improve. Even learning buildcraft is a challenge here as the system is so free-form it's easy to end up making things hard on yourself without realizing it!

Don't take this as a criticism. It sounds like you are very experienced, and so you will probably come back to this type of content and marvel at how much of a difference a little learning and practice make in this game! I know I did!

That's mostly why we are having this conversation, putting our collective minds together to sort the bad from the good, the bugs from the intended, the silly from the strange.I have gained a lot from this post and it has not only changed the way I approach things in the game but also how I handle it. I'm not just sitting here moaning, I'm out in the field practicing and perfecting.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Joote.4081 said:I would hurl myself into a gang of hydras for a lentil. I never fare that well and am wondering if it's worth it.

The trick with those hydras is to hit them fast and hard! If you knock 33% off their health they lose a head and become stunned, buying you a second window of time to knock another 33% off, stunning them again. If you can burst hard enough, they often die without fighting back!

It also helps if you always stay in motion with hydras. Not only because some of their attacks are directional and they are slow to turn, but also because their attacks are much easier to avoid/dodge if you are already moving.

May you fare better in your future attempts at lentil farming!

[Bursting.1976]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Joote.4081 said:I would hurl myself into a gang of hydras for a lentil. I never fare that well and am wondering if it's worth it.

The trick with those hydras is to hit them fast and hard! If you knock 33% off their health they lose a head and become stunned, buying you a second window of time to knock another 33% off, stunning them again. If you can burst hard enough, they often die without fighting back!

It also helps if you always stay in motion with hydras. Not only because some of their attacks are directional and they are slow to turn, but also because their attacks are much easier to avoid/dodge if you are already moving.

May you fare better in your future attempts at lentil farming!

Yeah, these are very helpful tips against hydras. Especially to always move and circle/kite the hydras while dealing damage. That way it becomes much easier to avoid their stronger attacks and crowd control abilities like when it breathes fire or summons crystals. If you do these things consistently they can even become a breeze on the squisher and high dps professions like the elementalist, after some practice.

[Eraden.8740]

I have no problems dealing with a single hydra with my staff elementalist and I am at best just an average player. Key is to make sure you are not standing where the bad goop will be landing. Multiple hydras on the other hand....I stay clear of situations where I might be fighting groups of them.

[Joote.4081]

One other thing I would like to mention is the power of the normal and living world story's. I never really bothered with them before but they are sort of a advanced tutorial plus a leverage into the world of GW2. In a feral nut shell, they help understand the game to it's fullest, and I would always advice new players to play the story lines.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Joote.4081" said:One other thing I would like to mention is the power of the normal and living world story's. I never really bothered with them before but they are sort of a advanced tutorial plus a leverage into the world of GW2. In a feral nut shell, they help understand the game to it's fullest, and I would always advice new players to play the story lines.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1429219/#Comment_1429219

Yup. If you want to rush content, then it's not game's fault despite of what some people on this forum seem to think.

[sewenewes.4176]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:One other thing I would like to mention is the power of the normal and living world story's. I never really bothered with them before but they are sort of a advanced tutorial plus a leverage into the world of GW2. In a feral nut shell, they help understand the game to it's fullest, and I would always advice new players to play the story lines.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1429219/#Comment_1429219

Yup. If you want to rush content, then it's not game's fault despite of what some people on this forum seem to think.

Except new players and those returning from longer stretches of inactivity typically do not have access to the living story episodes. I don't mean to say Arenanet doesn't deserve the money for said episodes. Frankly, they're well worth it even if you don't get them for free. However, new players or those out of the loop have no way of knowing that. They are directed towards the latest content as that's where most players are.

When they struggle with the combat and can't make sense of the story they either quit or start asking questions at which point they are told to play through the living story because it puts everything in context and also teaches you about the more difficult enemies and environmental dangers you have to face in both expansions. Not to mention giving you access to additional masteries that make traversing Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire much easier.

So they go to the story tab and notice how many episodes they are missing and see the price for getting them all then rightfully ask why the story and what is essentially a combat tutorial for the expansion are both hidden behind a paywall. One which they were not told about when buying the game. Since they're new or returnees from a long hiatus they won't know that said episodes are more than worth the asking price. They also will not have the gold to convert for gems. All they see is a somewhat steep up-front cost for what can be considered an integral part of the game. That turns off quite a few players

There should be some sort of stop-gap solution for this.

[Sobx.1758]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:One other thing I would like to mention is the power of the normal and living world story's. I never really bothered with them before but they are sort of a advanced tutorial plus a leverage into the world of GW2. In a feral nut shell, they help understand the game to it's fullest, and I would always advice new players to play the story lines.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1429219/#Comment_1429219

Yup. If you want to rush content, then it's not game's fault despite of what some people on this forum seem to think.

Except new players and those returning from longer stretches of inactivity typically do not have access to the living story episodes. I don't mean to say Arenanet doesn't deserve the money for said episodes. Frankly, they're well worth it even if you don't get them for free. However, new players or those out of the loop have no way of knowing that. They are directed towards the latest content as that's where most players are.

But they don't need to have them. They should just play through the story they have access to. It's not like the story is somehow consistently ramping up the difficulty, especially when this thread/OP/we are talking about just HoT/PoF content, not living story episodes (which for me remains true for those anyways -you enter the map? Just play through the story once).

I'm not saying "playing through the full story is obligatory", I'm saying "play through the story of the map you're entering for the first time". Bonus points for actually starting with core.

[Eraden.8740]

When I came back after a 4 year hiatus I jumped past Core and the early Living stories to get straight into HoT and PoF. My reason was simple. I wanted to ride critters. While it took a bit of time getting used to the pure 80 zones, it really wasn't that problematic as the storylines helped me prepare for new areas and opponents. Those mounts though.....so much FUN! It's amazing how this game continues to evolve. Now that HoT and PoF are done, I've gone back and worked a bit on some of the earlier content. It's still a lot of fun. Mostly because I get to see places I've not been before. Exploration is a really well done part of this game.

[sewenewes.4176]

@"Sobx.1758" said:But they don't need to have them. They should just play through the story they have access to. It's not like the story is somehow consistently ramping up the difficulty, especially when this thread/OP/we are talking about just HoT/PoF content, not living story episodes (which for me remains true for those anyways -you enter the map? Just play through the story once).

I'm not saying "playing through the full story is obligatory", I'm saying "play through the story of the map you're entering for the first time". Bonus points for actually starting with core.

Except the baseline story of each expansion already starts at a greatly increased difficulty (compared to the default) with mechanics that are either not utilized in the base game or are present in a much weaker form that makes it easy to ignore them or even just not notice them to begin with. I have brought players into the game over the years and this was an issue they all ran into. When we weren't playing together and they tried to tackle the expansions on their own, relying on the help of other players in the same area, they found the difficulty too punishing and in the past two years found the number of players on these maps too few and too spread out.

The only freely accesible content in the base game that gives you any hint of what is to come in the expansions are The Silverwastes and Dry Top. The former is mostly populated on maps that are doing RIBA zergs or shovel/chest runs and the latter is very abandoned.

The addition of the skyscale made the problem a lot worse in the open world. People who have it are now hovering above the dangers of the world, skipping past not just the enemies but also other players fighting them. Those who have just started or playing through the game at a slower pace are stuck watching people fly straight to a given objective and then taking off again. No engagement with other players or with the happenings of the world.

[kharmin.7683]

@ewenness.6482 said:The addition of the skyscale made the problem a lot worse in the open world. People who have it are now hovering above the dangers of the world, skipping past not just the enemies but also other players fighting them. Those who have just started or playing through the game at a slower pace are stuck watching people fly straight to a given objective and then taking off again. No engagement with other players or with the happenings of the world.

One could join a guild and engage with a lot of players and work through content together at the same pace.

[Sobx.1758]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:But they don't need to have them. They should just play through the story they have access to. It's not like the story is somehow consistently ramping up the difficulty, especially when this thread/OP/we are talking about just HoT/PoF content, not living story episodes (which for me remains true for those anyways -you enter the map? Just play through the story once).

I'm not saying "playing through the full story is obligatory", I'm saying "play through the story of the map you're entering for the first time". Bonus points for actually starting with core.

Except the baseline story of each expansion already starts at a greatly increased difficulty (compared to the default)

But having the episodes doesn't change much/anything, because it's not some "ramp up" from one to another like I already wrote above.

are present in a much weaker form

That's... that's the point.

What's lacking is probably the breakbar explanation, which doesn't change whether you have all the episodes or not.

The only freely accesible content in the base game that gives you any hint of what is to come in the expansions are The Silverwastes and Dry Top. The former is mostly populated on maps that are doing RIBA zergs or shovel/chest runs and the latter is very abandoned.

...which you need to walk through if you start HoT story. I don't see how "people doing riba zergs" is relevant to anything? If you don't even want to try and kill a mob alone in OW then who exactly are you blaming for that, the game? It looks to me like people that want to learn the game, do that without much of a problem. People that don't, just expect to be given stuff and either "everything's too hard" or "the mechanic introduction in story is too easy, so I didn't pay attention". Well, maybe start paying attention, not sure what else to tell you.

[sewenewes.4176]

@Sobx.1758 said:

Nah, not really.

If the difficulty of the expansions wasn't perceived by a not-insignificant percentage of players as much higher than that of the base game then we wouldn't be seeing these kind of threads repeatedly. Both on this forum and on other websites.

@Sobx.1758 said:

And having the episodes doesn't change much/anything, because it's not some "ramp up" from one to another like I already wrote above.

My sample size is small of course but when talking with players who actually played through the living story chapters in chronological order, they all noted that the difficulty increase was actually a lot smoother and better presented than when they initially just jumped from base to Silverwastes to Verdant Brink. The difficulty difference between Thorns and Fire is minimal as far as actual combat goes but the distance from which enemies lock on to you and for which they follow you is extreme in the latter.

@Sobx.1758 said:

That's... that's the point.

What's lacking is probably the breakbar explanation, which doesn't change whether you have all the episodes or not.

That's not the point though. In the base game those mechanics either teach nothing to the player because they are so insigficant in their effect or they teach the wrong thing by allowing players to power through them with a defensive build or ignore them by sitting at range constantly. The importance of crowd control is not only for breakbars but for, as the name implies, controlling the enemies. Interrupting certain attacks, positioning the enemy in certain ways, or simply slowing them down for kiting are often the difference between life and death in the expansions even if you fight only regular baddies but you can breeze through the base game with only your auto-attack and hodgepodge equipment of random stat distribution and runes.

I'm not surprised by the number of players I see asking about what crowd control is, how to use it, or why should they bother to use weapon skills or choose utilities that deal little damage (since their main purpose is CC) because the base game teaches you nothing initially but then throws you to the proverbial wolves as soon as you leave it behind. It's not just the combat itself but also the need for specializations, weapons, gear, and runes that synergize with each other. The episodes (particularly season two and the first half of season three) ramp up the difficulty pretty nicely and gradually turn previously insignificant attacks or debuffs to more lethal ones.

Here is my idea, just so I do more than just criticize.

When you meet with the Dragon's Watch to go off to Elona (or previously, Maguuma) none of them tells you to make sure your equipment is up to date and your skills up to scratch before you all leave. No dialogue option to explain to you how those things work. Taimi, being the local genius and all, could perform an "analysis" on you and then offer you a set of soulbound gear and specialization choices set-up that she has "calculated" to increase your chances in battle by some made-up metric.

You would get the option to pick from lets say four pre-set options (two power and two condition focused ones) and you could have a friendly battle with Dragon's Watch members to see how those pre-sets work for you before you make your decision. It could start with Braham charging at you with a knockdown while Rox shoots at you from range, then Kasmeer and Marjory get pulled in as a magic AoE and melee poison combo, then finally Taimi sending in Scruffy as a veteran with a breakbar.

Taimi would also have dialogue options where she could give a brief explanation of breakbars, crowd control, how the different stats work, the pros/cons of the two damage types, and the importance of runes and sigils. This would also be an excellent opportunity to explain and showcase the much coveted (and monetized!) build template feature. Taimi could explain that its the reason she is able to manifest out of thin air for you these different gear sets and help you recall your previous fighting style at a moment's notice.

@kharmin.7683 said:

One could join a guild and engage with a lot of players and work through content together at the same pace.

A guild can help answer your questions (ideally) and members can come and help you with whatever your are struggling with but that's just that. They can. Doesn't mean they will. A guild consists of people with their own needs and wants and interests who may or may not help you at any given time. It's not a summoning scroll that calls for henchmen to do your bidding. It is an option but not the solution.

[Sobx.1758]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:

Nah, not really.

If the difficulty of the expansions wasn't perceived by a not-insignificant percentage of players as much higher than that of the base game then we wouldn't be seeing these kind of threads repeatedly. Both on this forum and on other websites.

Here you were talking about "story", not overall expansion difficulty level. If there was no difficulty level difference in my opinion, I probably wouldn't say "bonus points for starting with core".

@"Sobx.1758" said:

And having the episodes doesn't change much/anything, because it's not some "ramp up" from one to another like I already wrote above.

My sample size is small of course but when talking with players who actually played through the living story chapters in chronological order, they all noted that the difficulty increase was actually a lot smoother and better presented than when they initially just jumped from base to Silverwastes to Verdant Brink. The difficulty difference between Thorns and Fire is minimal as far as actual combat goes but the distance from which enemies lock on to you and for which they follow you is extreme in the latter.

Or maybe more playtime => bigger chance to understand the game and its mechanics better => not much of an issue like a lot of other players and it doesn't have anything to do with story somehow smoothly ramping up throughout the episodes.

@"Sobx.1758" said:

That's... that's the point.

What's lacking is probably the breakbar explanation, which doesn't change whether you have all the episodes or not.

That's not the point though.

Oh it very much is. :D

In the base game those mechanics either teach nothing to the player because they are so insigficant in their effect or they teach the wrong thing by allowing players to power through them with a defensive build or ignore them by sitting at range constantly.

Guess I'll just quote what you've ignored in the post you're kind of answering to right now:If you don't even want to try and kill a mob alone in OW then who exactly are you blaming for that, the game? It looks to me like people that want to learn the game, do that without much of a problem. People that don't, just expect to be given stuff and either "everything's too hard" or "the mechanic introduction in story is too easy, so I didn't pay attention". Well, maybe start paying attention, not sure what else to tell you.

The importance of crowd control is not only for breakbars but for, as the name implies, controlling the enemies. Interrupting certain attacks, positioning the enemy in certain ways, or simply slowing them down for kiting are often the difference between life and death in the expansions even if you fight only regular baddies but you can breeze through the base game with only your auto-attack and hodgepodge equipment of random stat distribution and runes.

Woah, you don't say...? I honestly don't know what you're trying to argue right now. Most people understand what crowd control is, what exactly do you need to have explained about it? You're stunned you're stunned, you're knocked down then you're knocked down. Effect of the skill takes effect, what do you want to have explained here? How is this relevant to having LW episodes?Breakbar on the other hand isn't exactly so self explanatory, which is exactly why I've mentioned it.

I'm not surprised by the number of players I see asking about what crowd control is

lol what.The only reason I've seen people question what to use in regards of CC is directly related to the breakbar mechanic, and not anything along the lines "I don't understand what stun does, so why even use it instead of pressing 1".

---

When you meet with the Dragon's Watch to go off to Elona (or previously, Maguuma) none of them tells you to make sure your equipment is up to date and your skills up to scratch before you all leave. No dialogue option to explain to you how those things work. Taimi, being the local genius and all, could perform an "analysis" on you and then offer you a set of soulbound gear and specialization choices set-up that she has "calculated" to increase your chances in battle by some made-up metric.

You would get the option to pick from lets say four pre-set options (two power and two condition focused ones) and you could have a friendly battle with Dragon's Watch members to see how those pre-sets work for you before you make your decision. It could start with Braham charging at you with a knockdown while Rox shoots at you from range, then Kasmeer and Marjory get pulled in as a magic AoE and melee poison combo, then finally Taimi sending in Scruffy as a veteran with a breakbar.

Nope, there's enough of easy sources of gear you can grab in the game and if you're missing basics you can buy cheap exotics from TP. Setting up some fake gates between the contents "because you don't have the gear/build that one player wanted you to have" doens't make much sense to me and is just weird.

Taimi would also have dialogue options where she could give a brief explanation of breakbars,

Breakbar info could be included in one of the level-up tips that pop up on the way to level 80 and that's about it.

crowd control,

Really, all you have to do here is read your skills descriptions.

how the different stats work,

Available during leveling up process AND by hovering over the stats in hero panel.

the pros/cons of the two damage types,

One is over time, the other isn't. Also, agian, by reading skill/trait descriptions you can see rather easly/quickly that there are those things that "clear conditions". What else do you need explained here?

runes and sigils.

Information about upgrades is available at level 12. You get sigils/runes as level-up rewards as well.Again: maybe some people should just start paying attention instead of spamming "x" on any popup and then demanding more popups between the expansions for things they already had explained to them before they hit level 80? Right? Wrong? Am I missing something here?

[sewenewes.4176]

@Sobx.1758 said:Most people understand what crowd control is

No. They really don't. An incredibly high number of players have absolutely no idea how they work beyond getting annoyed when one is applied to them by an enemy. I'm not exaggerating when I say that during the times I have helped lead meta events and did hero point / mastery point trains I had to explain crowd control (not just breakbars!) to at least every fifth player on average. They also didn't realize you could break crowd control effects on you through certain skills. They also had no idea about combo fields and finishers.

You assume the issue is that those people are lazy and don't read when the reality is that they are bombarded by flashy effects and information that makes little sense to those not used to these sort of games. You are arguing against my points from the prespective of a seasoned player. I have seen firsthand how much of a difference is between friends who came over to this game after having been active players of this genre for years and friends who installed this as their first MMORPG. The pseudo action combat doesn't help things as far as simplicity goes and is already a barrier to those used to the slower, purely tab target style gameplay.

Due to the freedom offered when it comes to builds, even people who read and understand the information presented are often led astray by the abundance of choices - most of which are traps that will make you deal inadequate damage or have inadequate access to crowd control and condition cleanse. Many players run around with weapons (and abilities) that don't synergize with their stats or selected specializations. This isn't a problem in the base game because you can go through it with any oddball combination and not realize there's a problem thus it won't be evident why you're suddenly dying to everything in HoT and PoF.

@Sobx.1758 said:Or maybe more playtime => bigger chance to understand the game and its mechanics better

Perhaps. As I said, my sample size only extends to friends and guildies. Maybe the majority simply "got gud" by just playing the expansions more. Or maybe they quit. There is something to be said for the big revenue and activity drop following Heart of Thorns. I vividly remember countless posts detailing frustration with the new content during that time. Have to assume that a lot of them didn't return since the sales for Path of Fire were a lot lower.

[Sobx.1758]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Most people understand what crowd control is

No. They really don't. An incredibly high number of players have absolutely no idea how they work beyond getting annoyed when one is applied to them by an enemy. I'm not exaggerating when I say that during the times I have helped lead meta events and did hero point / mastery point trains I had to explain crowd control (not just breakbars!) to at least every fifth player on average. They also didn't realize you could break crowd control effects on you through certain skills. They also had no idea about combo fields and finishers.

You assume the issue is that those people are lazy and don't read when the reality is that they are bombarded by flashy effects and information that makes little sense to those not used to these sort of games.

I'm interested where you pull that information from, because I've never interacted with a player -new or not- that checked>used their skills and then got confused by what "stun" or "knockdown" means or does. At this point it must be some kind of language -not ingame vocabulary!- barrier.

You are arguing against my points from the prespective of a seasoned player.

No, I am arguing with your points from a perspective of a player that also at one point started playing mmorpgs/gw2/whatever and interacts with many players, including the new ones and never got in situation you bring up here, which are basically cleared by reading a skill description and using the skill once.

I have seen firsthand how much of a difference is between friends who came over to this game after having been active players of this genre for years and friends who installed this as their first MMORPG. The pseudo action combat doesn't help things as far as simplicity goes and is already a barrier to those used to the slower, purely tab target style gameplay.

Yeah, ok, cc is something that gw2 invented, so active people of this genre for years surely are super confused by what stun actually means and does. This just seems like something you're making up on a spot.

Due to the freedom offered when it comes to builds, even people who read and understand the information presented are often led astray by the abundance of choices - most of which are traps that will make you deal inadequate damage or have inadequate access to crowd control and condition cleanse. Many players run around with weapons (and abilities) that don't synergize with their stats or selected specializations. This isn't a problem in the base game because you can go through it with any oddball combination and not realize there's a problem thus it won't be evident why you're suddenly dying to everything in HoT and PoF.

People have access to more traits, skills and weapons than they can use for the exact reason you see as somehow bad. They can read and choose what they want to play. They can use cc or not, they can play tankier, glass cannon, kind of sort of support or whatever else they come up with. Just because you think it's "inadequete" because "it doesn't have x or y or doesnt fit with meta-ish build" doesn't make it an issue. The only issue here is you wanting players to play the builds you want them to play. Everything else is up to them, not you and that's exactly how it should remain. PoF and HoT don't need some sort of min-max "do it all" builds either despite of what you're trying to push here.

And I guess we're leaving aside the fact you wanted HoT to explain things that were already explained pre-80. Have your friends -maybe even by your advice- just boosted their characters to 80 and tried... you know.. rushing content by skipping introductory system?

[Firebeard.1746]

The only challenging parts of PoF maps are generally the forged areas. I didn't find them that "maze like" It really just feels like a mount check depending on where you want to go.

[Firebeard.1746]

@Eraden.8740 said:I really hate the HoT areas but that is because it is so confusing to try and figure out how to get to a location that is literally only 100 feet away but could be 1000 feet above or below. The mini map seems to do a really subpar job of actually showing the differences in elevation and that makes using the mini map in those zones even more frustrating in terms of trying to plan out a route. Fortunately, A little bit of time and acquisition of some of the base mounts (Springer most notably) has softened my hatred of those zones and now they are much more palatable. I guess it would be too much to ask for an isomorphic view of the main map? One other thing.....I am a botanist by trade (or used to be as I am now retired) and never has a set of game zones ever made me love the concept of Agent Orange so much, as the HoT zones have!

I had to like your post, only for this comment.

[sewenewes.4176]

@Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, ok, cc is something that gw2 invented, so active people of this genre for years surely are super confused by what stun actually means and does.

Reading comprehension. I specifically said that it's people who don't have former experience with the genre that struggle. It's not that they can't comprehend what "knockdown" or "slow" means when reading it in the skill description but rather not understanding how to fully utilize those skills. They use often just use them as part of a normal rotation, hitting the buttons on cooldown, not understanding what commanders are asking for when they tell people to use crowd control, or understanding the word itself but not when and for what they should be using those skills. It's one thing to speak English and understand what knockdown means. It's another to understand what knockdown is for and when it should be pressed.

If you want the most common example of this, observe the number of rangers with a longbow who push around enemies in nonsensical ways that puts them and their group at a disadvantage and yet it keeps happening even when people in chat are pleading with them to stop.

@Sobx.1758 said:

The only issue here is you wanting players to play the builds you want them to play. Everything else is up to them, not you and that's exactly how it should remain.

You're assuming a lot of things and putting words into my mouth. I never said that what they do is wrong or should not be allowed. I love making my own builds as well and they're often more about fun than performance. However, the base game is made easy enough that players truly can do whatever they want and still succeed. In HoT and PoF the stakes are increased and though nothing prevents you from playing a mesmer in soldier gear with condition focused weapons and random traits, it's not exactly conductive to surviving.

@Sobx.1758 said:

And I guess we're leaving aside the fact you wanted HoT to explain things that were already explained pre-80. Have your friends -maybe even by your advice- just boosted their characters to 80 and tried... you know.. rushing content by skipping introductory system?

Again, you're assuming a lot of things. I never recommended boosting to anyone and never will. Some of the people I know are going through the story chronologically at their own pace, some are jumping between doing the story and doing some current content, and some did indeed go straight to the "endgame" but they were almost all former WoW players and raiders so they knew the drill and immediately tabbed over to metabattle and snowcrows, did the math, bought everything needed, and sat up the most effective builds right from the get-go, then started working on leveling crafting and pushing fractals for ascended. They aren't the ones who struggle in this game or any other.

I'm not even sure why you are against the suggestion to extend the tutorial system for inexperienced players. WoW has done it with their class trial and the starting experience despite how old the game is and it does actually help players get a grasp on the basic rotation and defensives of their class/spec. Players can opt out of it so no one is forced to endure the horrors of unwanted explanations.

[Sobx.1758]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:

Yeah, ok, cc is something that gw2 invented, so active people of this genre for years surely are super confused by what stun actually means and does.

Reading comprehension. I specifically said that it's people who don't have former experience with the genre that struggle. It's not that they can't comprehend what "knockdown" or "slow" means when reading it in the skill description but rather not understanding how to fully utilize those skills. They use often just use them as part of a normal rotation, hitting the buttons on cooldown, not understanding what commanders are asking for when they tell people to use crowd control, or understanding the word itself but not when and for what they should be using those skills. It's one thing to speak English and understand what knockdown means. It's another to understand what knockdown is for and when it should be pressed.

So it still boils down to understanding breakbars. And they can be "confused" for the first time they see it, but even if noone uses term "crowd control", all they need to do is:a) ask in squad/party/chat about what is ccb) google "gw2 cc" and the answer is right there.

Anyways what you're talking about isn't exactly "not understanding what cc is", but rather why is it being called out, which is... you know, breakbar. Not sure why you pretend it's "lack of understanding what cc is".

Now if they want to spam their skills off cooldown no matter what they do, then it's their choice and possibility. I mean "understanding when knockdown should be pressed"? Outside of the infamous breakbar, what's so unclear about what it does and how it can be utilized?

If you want the most common example of this, observe the number of rangers with a longbow who push around enemies in nonsensical ways that puts them and their group at a disadvantage and yet it keeps happening even when people in chat are pleading with them to stop.

And that's certainly not because they "don't understand what knockback/cc does". It's because they don't care about melee player's convenience and as much as I dislike that fact, it's their right. Needless to say, it's a completely missed "most common example" for your claim about people not understanding what it does. It's clearly visible what the skill/effect does. They want to use it, so they do. You dislike it so you'll pretend it's totally because "they don't understand the effect", oof.Literally last time I've seen a random ranger doing it (during some festival event I think?) I asked him to stop knocking targets back because it makes killing them slower and more annoying -to which he responded something along the lines "I just like using skills, but I'll stop, sorry". Your claim that these players don't understand what the skill/effect/cc does seems "a little" misguided.

@"Sobx.1758" said:

The only issue here is you wanting players to play the builds you want them to play. Everything else is up to them, not you and that's exactly how it should remain.

You're assuming a lot of things and putting words into my mouth. I never said that what they do is wrong or should not be allowed. I love making my own builds as well and they're often more about fun than performance. However, the base game is made easy enough that players truly can do whatever they want and still succeed. In HoT and PoF the stakes are increased and though nothing prevents you from playing a mesmer in soldier gear with condition focused weapons and random traits, it's not exactly conductive to surviving.

Not really assuming a whole lot here just because you didn't specifically spell out something in your posts (still, you kiiind of did) -first you've decided there will be 4 armor sets with x stats for the players to choose from (or w/e, I'm not rereading it :D ) and then claiming that they don't know what to build because "most of [traits/skills] are traps that will make you deal inadequate damage or have inadequate access to crowd control and condition cleanse". Seems like you want people do build what you want them to build based on their dmg dealt and having "this and that". Add one to another and you're not left with much of a choice that'll fill what you want them to fill. But this game isn't exactly balanced by requiring top(-ish) dps build and checking all the boxes you want them to check. And you sure DO want them to check those boxes despite claiming now that it's not what you've said. If a player wants to use their build, they'll use it and they're free to use it whether you'll judge it as "inadequate" or not.

@"Sobx.1758" said:

And I guess we're leaving aside the fact you wanted HoT to explain things that were already explained pre-80. Have your friends -maybe even by your advice- just boosted their characters to 80 and tried... you know.. rushing content by skipping introductory system?I'm not even sure why you are against the suggestion to extend the tutorial system for inexperienced players. WoW has done it with their class trial and the starting experience despite how old the game is and it does actually help players get a grasp on the basic rotation and defensives of their class/spec. Players can opt out of it so no one is forced to endure the horrors of unwanted explanations.

What was that about reading comprehension again?I'm not "against tutorial system", the point here was that it's already in the game. Re-read the part of the post you've previously dodged, because now you commented on something completely different (as if that was the main point of what you've quoted...) and then somehow pivoted into "me being against tutorials", while I didn't write anything like this.And again, I didn't "assume" much here, because there is a tutorial during leveling up, if they didn't skip the leveling process or spammed "x" without reading then... Not sure what else is left there to miss all the info you suddenly want REintroduced between expansions as if it's not already in the game.

[Gombie.3860]

Like others above. I hate PoF maps too. Has nothing to do with agro though. They are just bland or uninspired. The only memorable part is the underground ruins in the Highlands. The other maps I'd be happy never to set foot in ever.

HoT on the other hand is so breathtaking and intense.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"ewenness.6482" said:There is something to be said for the big revenue and activity drop following Heart of Thorns.

According to NCSoft the reason for the revenue drop was the lack of conversions from free players into paying customers. Any other reason is just speculation and bias. So the problem was in the core game, not the expansion, not being good enough to entice players into becoming paying customers. I've done extensive research, mostly using the official achievement boards, showing just how early the ovewhelming majority of accounts stopped playing this game. (hint: it's before hitting the mid point in level, so way way too soon to have any expansion access) If we take a look at the massive revenue/sales drop in the first year, we can see that the core game always struggled to attract players, and keep them busy. As for the activity drop, I don't recall anyone mentioning an activity drop, other than forum posters talking about a "mass exodus" that was never confirmed, or justified, in any way or form.

Have to assume that a lot of them didn't return since the sales for Path of Fire were a lot lower.

Path of Fire revenue was higher than Heart of Thorns revenue. Of course during the release of the second expansion, both were on sale, obviously selling two expansions makes more money than selling only one, and during Path of Fire there was overwhelming emphasis on the gem store, far more items, and more expensive items, were added to the game during Path of Fire, driving revenue way up, compared to the limited (and lacking) gem store offerings during Heart of Thorns. But still, Path of Fire had higher sales than Heart of Thorns.

[kharmin.7683]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

One could join a guild and engage with a lot of players and work through content together at the same pace.

A guild can help answer your questions (ideally) and members can come and help you with whatever your are struggling with but that's just that. They can. Doesn't mean they will. A guild consists of people with their own needs and wants and interests who may or may not help you at any given time. It's not a summoning scroll that calls for henchmen to do your bidding. It is an option but not the solution.Then one should find a better guild. No, it's not a summoning scroll (that, IMO is an extreme point) but getting in the right guild would allow for the engagement that was said to be lacking. One might also argue that a larger guild could offer a higher chance of finding other players who have the time and inclination to engage with others.