perm stealth

[Psycoprophet.8107]

3 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Ur right, and unless all classes are the exact same there will be differences between them all and it stands to reason why thief was designed to be the highest mobility given its a squishy class that uses active defenses to stay alive such as evades, teleports, blinds, stealth etc instead of having higher base hp/armor, barriers,blocks, invulnerability skills, eagis etc. Its a hit and run playstyle like all rogues and without the run part it doesnt really work. Were actually lucky over here at gw2 that the hit part of that playstyle is as low as it is and that the thief is annoying u by running away instead of ganking u from near full hp to 0 instantly then running like a lot of rogues do in other mmos lol.

 

[Sobx.1758]

36 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

Ya connect the dots. Being able to run away to capture another objective/kill another player/scout for team is losing. You're down playing the getting kills to tell people it's ok for you not to die. If dying or getting kills is as useless as you say why don't you stay and die when you lose? I know cause that would be considered throwing the match.

Keep dodging 🙄

 

And when did I say it's "useless", why are you making up random stuff I never said in your every pseudo-response to me? You quote the message already, so maybe respond to what you're quoting. Instead you're quoting my messages and then go off with your random responses that have nothing to do with what I said.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

33 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that you're dodging.

Dodging what? ""Statistics"" you've literally JUST made up by yourself at this very moment? They're made up, give me some real ones so I actually have anything to respond to.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[szeng.1267]

17 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Ur right, and unless all classes are the exact same there will be differences between them all and it stands to reason why thief was designed to be the highest mobility given its a squishy class that uses active defenses to stay alive such as evades, teleports, blinds, stealth etc instead of having higher base hp/armor, barriers,blocks, invulnerability skills, eagis etc. Its a hit and run playstyle like all rogues and without the run part it doesnt really work. Were actually lucky over here at gw2 that the hit part of that playstyle is as low as it is and that the thief is annoying u buy running away instead of ganking u from near full hp to 0 than running like a lot of rogues do in other mmos lol.

Not denying thieves will be kitten without stealth because they lack in other places. But if playing against thieves is just guessing, spamming aoes, and praying they make a mistake and in the end they just run away regardless then that's not good design. I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix stealth. I'm posting because it annoyed me seeing people who play the class with the most disengaging capability telling others they denying them their kill is them winning.   

[Psycoprophet.8107]

19 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

Not denying thieves will be kitten without stealth because they lack in other places. But if playing against thieves is just guessing, spamming aoes, and praying they make a mistake and in the end they just run away regardless then that's not good design. I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix stealth. I'm posting because it annoyed me seeing people who play the class with the most disengaging capability telling others they denying them their kill is them winning.   

But playing against thieves isn't just guessing, as I said if u play thief and learn it's builds like most successful thieves do for their opponents ud kno by what skill thieves use how many secs stealth they have, u can watch out for any signs of the thief restealth in and if u don't see any than u kno they are going to attack in x amount of seconds. Every stealthing action the thief does aside from stealth on heal leaves a tell for u to see, not only will u know how many secs of stealth the thief approx has but also how much of its global attack resources it will approx have left, ie in the case of p5 as  example. If u ever watch a match where sind or any other vet player is fighting a thief ull notice them actually counting down to know when the thief will mostly likely be trying to land its burst.

Is stealth perfect is this game....no it isn't but if any significant changes to the stealth mechanic and thieves access to it were to occur the class would also need a major overhaul on top to accommodate those changes and I would guess thats far more than what anet is willing to do, especially given this many yrs in.

Anyway as I said this threads run its course.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[AliamRationem.5172]

38 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Dodging what? ""Statistics"" you've literally JUST made up by yourself at this very moment? They're made up, give me some real ones so I actually have anything to respond to.

 

 

Do you disagree that thief is always a popular roamer?  Do you forget disagree that stealth is the primary reason for this?

[szeng.1267]

27 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Keep dodging 🙄

 

And when did I say it's "useless", why are you making up random stuff I never said in your every pseudo-response to me? You quote the message already, so maybe respond to what you're quoting. Instead you're quoting my messages and then go off with your random responses that have nothing to do with what I said.

 

I never said you said it was useless I said " as useless as you say".

 

And this is as useless as you say:

 

"You just cry because you didn't get a kill, which doesn't mean much -if anything- and doesn't really change much of the outcome. What point are you trying to make? That one bag is super valuable? Nope, that's not it. So what is it? "I feel better when I kill someone as opposed to someone running away? Well, nobody cares."

 

So if it doesn't mean much and doesn't change the outcome much why you choose to run when you about to die? Cause you yourself knows the value of living to fight another day and that because you were able to run away you are able to go and flip another camp and kill another player which causes you to reap all the benefits of running away. You are straight up trying to groom others into thinking they win if you escaped so its okay for you to do so at will. Of course you're not going to admit to it and claim I'm making stuff up when we all can see that is exactly what you are doing.

 

What am I dodging?

 

[szeng.1267]

19 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

But playing against thieves isn't just guessing, as I said if u play thief and learn it's builds like most successful thieves do for their opponents ud kno by what skill thieves use how many secs stealth they have, u can watch out for any signs of the thief restealth in and if u don't see any than u kno they are going to attack in x amount of seconds. Every stealthing action the thief does aside from stealth on heal leaves a tell for u to see, not only will u know how many secs of stealth the thief approx has but also how much of its global attack resources it will approx have left, ie in the case of p5 as  example. If u ever watch a match where sind or any other vet player is fighting a thief ull notice them actually counting down to know when the thief will mostly likely be trying to land its burst.

Is stealth perfect is this game....no it isn't but if any significant changes to the stealth mechanic and thieves access to it were to occur the class would also need a major overhaul on top to accommodate those changes and I would guess thats far more than what anet is willing to do, especially given this many yrs in.

Anyway as I said this threads run its course.

Yes, I know what your saying. Most of the stuff I don't disagree with and the stuff that I do disagree with is not worth mentioning.

 

Stealth is the most annoying thing to deal with in this game is my and many others opinion.

 

Like I said my only problem is people claiming you win if I got away successfully. If I win the fight then I get to kill you but if you win the fight then nononono you will be content with me running away.

[Sobx.1758]

43 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

I never said you said it was useless I said " as useless as you say".

 

And this is as useless as you say:

 

"You just cry because you didn't get a kill, which doesn't mean much -if anything- and doesn't really change much of the outcome. What point are you trying to make? That one bag is super valuable? Nope, that's not it. So what is it? "I feel better when I kill someone as opposed to someone running away? Well, nobody cares."

But I never said it's useless, so saying "as useless as you say" makes no sense and is just a hopeless grasp for a point when you don't have one.

 

 

Quote

What am I dodging?

Most of my previous posts, which is exactly what I'm starting to do with yours, because -like with the objectives in the form of glowing circles- maybe you don't understand any point without an example (but apparently even examples don't do much here). 🙃

Edited June 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

46 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Do you disagree that thief is always a popular roamer?  Do you forget disagree that stealth is the primary reason for this?

It is a popular roamer, but that doesn't make it outnumber other roamers, let alone 10 times. Are you done making up fake stats for the sake of making a point?

[szeng.1267]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But I never said it's useless, so saying "as useless as you say" makes no sense and is just a hopeless grasp for a point when you don't have one.

 

 

Most of my previous posts, which is exactly what I'm starting to do with yours, because -like with the objectives in the form of glowing circles- maybe you don't understand any point without an example (but apparently even examples don't do much here). 🙃

What....? Are you serious? Everything is a okay cause you said "a kill, which doesn't mean much -if anything- and doesn't really change much of the outcome" instead of "it's useless".

 

Fighting on glowing circles? Who said I need to fight on glowing circles? The map is huge. I can spawn camp you and be more effective at denying you points. I can pick you off while you trying to get back to your zerg. I can do so much to deny your team points while off circle. If I fought you and realized I was going to die so I leave at will and capture another camp or tower, kill a few enemies trying to get back to their zerg, scouted info for my zerg, kissed your girlfriend, but because I was able to successfully run away I lost? No I won and you lost. You lost big time.

[Jables.4659]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:48 AM, biofrog.1568 said:

So tell me how 25 seconds of stealth while downed is 'fair'?

This thread is a cluster-kitten of reply chains so apologies if this has been mentioned already.  When you have a thief extremely low like that and they pop stealth right as they are about to go into downstate, look at your mini-map.  Downed enemies will appear on your mini-map regardless of stealth (as was the case in this video).  Shadow Escape has a range of 600 and thieves will almost always port the max distance in situations like this.  All you had to do was run in a circle while spamming your auto attack and you would've won the fight.  Instead, you stood still and stopped attacking.  Take the fight as an educational moment that helped you improve as a player. 

 

Regarding stealth and downstate in general, I'm always a fan of players having the ability to coordinate for success.  When a team member goes down, being able to prevent a stomp with Mass Invisibility or a smoke field blast provides players with an additional option and I believe the game is made better for it.  I don't necessarily think that the game would improve by removing stealth from players when they enter downstate.  Off the top of my head I can't think of any skill except shadow refuge that would grant a player enough stealth time to fully res before it ends.  Taking Shadow Refuge means the thief is sacrificing one of the better utility skills, so imo its a fair perk for SR to have.

 

All that being said, I would still prefer it if downstate was removed from pvp/wvw entirely.  In spvp, it allows teams to snowball by keeping enemy teams in "half-res".  More importantly, it makes outnumbered fights more difficult than they already are.  1vX fights in WvW are significantly easier during no-downstate events as actually getting the pin is often the hardest part.  Unless your enemies are complete brainless, you're forced to either waste important cool-downs or take a massive amount of damage going for stomps. 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

54 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

What....? Are you serious? Everything is a okay cause you said "a kill, which doesn't mean much -if anything- and doesn't really change much of the outcome" instead of "it's useless".

Yup, because it doesn't change much of the outcome, which doesn't make it useless 😮

Quote

Fighting on glowing circles? Who said I need to fight on glowing circles? The map is huge. I can spawn camp you and be more effective at denying you points.

We've already been through this. You can play how you want, but this does nothing for what I've said before that 🙄

 

Quote

If I fought you and realized I was going to die so I leave at will and capture another camp or tower

If you -for some reason- camp someone and "realise you'll die so you go somewhere to cap w/e", then that person -which you've just ran from- should sit nearby the objectives instead of sitting in their spawn for no reason and then you "going to cap" changes nothing because you can't cap 😮

(For every one of your silly fictional scenarios I can make my own? Whaaaaat...?)

 

tl;dr you play how you want > people don't play by your own made up rules > you cry. Nobody cares.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It is a popular roamer, but that doesn't make it outnumber other roamers, let alone 10 times. Are you done making up fake stats for the sake of making a point?

 

Whatever takes the attention off how broken stealth is in this game, right?  We don't want to talk about that!  Let's laser focus on any irrelevancy we can find to derail this thread before anyone in charge notices!

 

Just kidding! We all know it's far too late in the game for them to rewrite stealth and other over the top mechanics that prevent players from actually fighting each other in a game that otherwise has a pretty excellent combat system. 

 

Such is the failure of GW2.

[kash.9213]

14 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

Whatever takes the attention off how broken stealth is in this game, right?  We don't want to talk about that!  Let's laser focus on any irrelevancy we can find to derail this thread before anyone in charge notices!

 

Just kidding! We all know it's far too late in the game for them to rewrite stealth and other over the top mechanics that prevent players from actually fighting each other in a game that otherwise has a pretty excellent combat system. 

 

Such is the failure of GW2.

No one is trying to take attention off of stealth, but people do feel the need to check other hysterical people who claim stealth itself is broken. You can get the devs to mess around with Shadow Arts and trash like Shadow Meld if you want and most thieves would just shrug and keep playing. But let's laser focus on the entire mechanic of stealth since that would cover most excuses for build choices. 

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

 

Lmao, I can't believe this is still going. You anti-thieves are truly hilarious. Listening to you scream about Thief and Stealth is truly something else; one would think that Thief is some kind of Omnipotent, All Seeing, Invisible Deity that sits in stealth and indiscriminately smites people at 10,000 range.

 

You know what I do when a thief kills me? I suck at it up and learn from it. I don't come to the forums to cry about it. "Wah, X thing killed me, it's OP, nerf it!" Furthermore, everyone in here screaming about "perma stealth" is ignoring one tiny  little detail; if the thief is sitting in stealth, they're not dealing any damage. You're ignoring it, because it doesn't fit your ignorant, anti-thief narrative.

 

I kill thieves as often as they kill me. Myself and other thief mains actually play the thief, and know how it works. I have seen many a thread over the years where people ask, in the thief forums, how to fight thieves, and we're all too happy to help.

 

But you anti-thieves come in here and scream for nerfs, rather than even attempt to put in the effort to learn, and then you're shocked and offended that we get defensive. 😒

 

Stealth is fine, Thief is in a good spot, and yeah, maybe Shadow Arts could use some work. This is a Learn To Play issue. Full Stop.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047

[szeng.1267]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, because it doesn't change much of the outcome, which doesn't make it useless 😮

We've already been through this. You can play how you want, but this does nothing for what I've said before that 🙄

 

If you -for some reason- camp someone and "realise you'll die so you go somewhere to cap w/e", then that person -which you've just ran from- should sit nearby the objectives instead of sitting in their spawn for no reason and then you "going to cap" changes nothing because you can't cap 😮

(For every one of your silly fictional scenarios I can make my own? Whaaaaat...?)

 

tl;dr you play how you want > people don't play by your own made up rules > you cry. Nobody cares.

"change the outcome much - if anything-" means it doesn't change it much or anything at all. This means useless. The hell you trying to pull.

 

You have the mobility to disengage but trying to tell me you don't have the mobility to get to another camp before the other guy? Why you feel the need  to stay at that camp that guy is sitting at? Go flip something else or find someone else to kill. This is a privileged that is reserved for the winner not the loser.

 

Play by my own made up set of rule? My set of rules is do everything that is allowed by the game to get rewards for my team and myself and/or denying rewards for my enemies. Your set of rule is fight on glowing circles you leave circle you lose. I can leave circle all I want and go flip another circle or kill someone else. I didn't lose jack.

 

Keep trying to groom people into thinking you being able to disengage at will is them winning. Nobodies buying it.

Edited June 4, 2021 by szeng.1267

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

"change the outcome much - if anything-" means it doesn't change it much or anything at all. This means useless. The hell you trying to pull.

The kills aren't useless, but your opponent running away achieves similar thing, because the kill itself isn't exactly the end goal here, but the way to achieve the goal. Gre-read last few posts and try focusing super hard while you're doing it this time.

 

So what you're saying is that someone else running somewhere else to do whatever else is some kind of mad value, but you capping the objective you were fighting over while forcing someone to run away is meaningless and doesn't mean you won? 🤔

You also already said you don't care about objectives, so despite your made up fictional scenarios, what you're doing here pretty clearly crinyg over a bag because it makes you feel bad you failed to kill someone, that's pretty hilarious.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Abyssisis.3971]

Hide and seek wars 2. Stealth is broken, plain and simple.

[szeng.1267]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The kills aren't useless, but your opponent running away achieves similar thing, because the kill itself isn't exactly the end goal here, but the way to achieve the goal. Gre-read last few posts and try focusing super hard while you're doing it this time.

 

Which is why I asked you if you think your opponent running away achieves similar things as you getting the kill, why do you run when you're about to get killed? Why is your goal preventing your enemy from flipping the circle you're currently standing on and not the circle the they will flip if they got away? Maybe if you focus super hard you'll realize that you can't answer my question without admitting that being alive and able to keep fighting and continue to contribute to your team isn't losing.

[AliamRationem.5172]

54 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

No one is trying to take attention off of stealth, but people do feel the need to check other hysterical people who claim stealth itself is broken. You can get the devs to mess around with Shadow Arts and trash like Shadow Meld if you want and most thieves would just shrug and keep playing. But let's laser focus on the entire mechanic of stealth since that would cover most excuses for build choices. 

 

I know!  It's completely hysterical to feel that repeatedly going stealth while in combat should not exist...

[szeng.1267]

45 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So what you're saying is that someone else running somewhere else to do whatever else is some kind of mad value, but you capping the objective you were fighting over while forcing someone to run away is meaningless and doesn't mean you won? 🤔

You also already said you don't care about objectives, so despite your made up fictional scenarios, what you're doing here pretty clearly crinyg over a bag because it makes you feel bad you failed to kill someone, that's pretty hilarious.

 

I never said I didn't care about objectives. I said I don't care about your definition of wvw objectives which is forcing enemy off the camp you are standing on.  I care very much about my objectives of doing everything possible in game to get rewards for myself and my team and preventing my enemies from getting rewards. Keep trying to spin this whole thing as me caring about a bag and not you justifying why you deserve to live when you lost while everyone else doesn't. That is even more hilarious.

Edited June 5, 2021 by szeng.1267

[Sobx.1758]

37 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

Which is why I asked you if you think your opponent running away achieves similar things as you getting the kill, why do you run when you're about to get killed?

Watching this thread, feel good when you kill someone's character to the point where you chase the kill for the sake of it and when you fail, you come to cry on the forum. Based on that it's probably safe to assume that someone else can feel bad when their character dies, so they run if they're about to die. Taking your hurt little feelings and reversing them is absolute rocket science, I know.

And why do you constantly assume I'm the one running here? 🙄

 

Quote

Why is your goal preventing your enemy from flipping the circle you're currently standing on and not the circle the they will flip if they got away? Maybe if you focus super hard you'll realize that you can't answer my question without admitting that being alive and able to keep fighting and continue to contribute to your team isn't losing.

As far as I know wvw isn't a 1v1 mode and I don't personally answer for every magical circle of the map. Super hard concept again, I know.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

26 minutes ago, szeng.1267 said:

I never said I didn't care about objectives.

 

10 hours ago, szeng.1267 said:

What point? I ain't fighting over no point. Flipping camps ain't winning.

🤔

 

You're not fighting over the points, you're fighting for the kill and when the kill runs away you cry because your feelings are hurt.

 

 

Quote

I said I don't care about your definition of wvw objectives which is forcing enemy off the camp you are standing on.  I care very much about my objectives of doing everything possible in game to get rewards for myself and my team

 

Then I guess you should be running in zergs instead of crying about one player running away? You're not maximizing kitten by 1v1ing and if that one bag matter then you're clearly doing it wrong 🙄

Quote

and preventing my enemies from getting rewards.

 😆

This one's genuinely hilarious.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Salt Mode.3780]

Its hilarious how thieves justify stealth as perfectly fine and that there are counterplay to it. Yes there is indeed a lot of ways to counter stealth but when you pair with insane mobility that only thieves has access to the counterplay is invalid. Stealth paired with mobility that can disengage in seconds is the problem. I can't wait for a thief main to come tell me that "we aren't mobile compared to X Y and Z class or with mounts mobility means nothing."