How to Fix Heal Revenant

[Janitsu.6284]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:07 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

similar to impossible odds which has no cooldown whereas every skill on the other legends do if they have low energy cost

Impossible Odds actually has two separate cooldowns 🙄.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 7:07 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

P.S. the only classes that have a legitimate use for knockback are longbow ranger against a breakbar in fractals due to marksmanship's Predator's Onslaught and any quickness scrapper running blast gyro (for quickness when traited with Kinetic Accelerators).

I don't think I understand this point. Why are other knockback abilities not legitimate? Surge of the Mists is strong in fractals, Druid uses Glyph of Tides to control Seekers on Vale Guardian, Illusionary Wave is used on Samarog to push Rigom into Samarog's hitbox... Why are these the only legitimate uses for knockbacks?

[Infusion.7149]

6 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Impossible Odds actually has two separate cooldowns 🙄.

 

I don't think I understand this point. Why are other knockback abilities not legitimate? Surge of the Mists is strong in fractals, Druid uses Glyph of Tides to control Seekers on Vale Guardian, Illusionary Wave is used on Samarog to push Rigom into Samarog's hitbox... Why are these the only legitimate uses for knockbacks?

They're talking about openworld

[Aeolus.3615]

14 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

Cheers for my first laugh out loud moment for the day.

 

Seriously.

 

Obviously they would work just fine without cooldowns.

 

would be harder for most  to make a decent e-management w/o CD's, most ventari users ic are just swap use one skill and swap to renegade or something else, at least should be normal to use legend arround 10-20sec before need of swaping back to primary legend.

Players that know how to use tablet to its fully extent are few, the ones ic arent even strong on healing power, or have minstrell stats(as in not fully optimized for healing ouput), iwould rather play zealot stats than minstrell potato.

 

I dont mind how it is atm besides the tablet movement and its elite are my only QoL wishes (miss the old 14k heals on tranquility but for 25e more than that would be hard to use the tablet), yeah increasing tranquilty cost IMO is out of question, that would put a huge burden on tablet overall usage wich most tablet players dont do.

 

Tablet movement heal skill, reduce to 2sec  or increase its heal quoficients to scale better with healing power.

Elite is a bit weird, its a troll KB spam, it can be used to blind alot  nearby enemies if one keep spawning tablet back  tablet and exploding it but thats all doesnt provide much help nowadays.

Would love that tablet Elite would be a lock tablet on local and would create a big tree that would rain lots of orbs really alot, or that would improve certain skills usage inside its aoe radius, or pulse a strong regen et, this would stress tablet and would destroy it at the end, KB  alone is very lacluster and the condi cleanse on it is very unrealistic to happen.

 

We already have perma 1.1ish k regen ticks per sec for each player while on herald maybe herald could get its 10 players afected back for facets???? that would be a total output of 10k+ regen tick to 10 players (at minimal 1k per sec regen).

Plus staff and shield are like 5k aoe heals that also condi clear.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Za Shaloc.3908]

On 7/13/2021 at 2:12 PM, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

Cheers for my first laugh out loud moment for the day.

 

Seriously.

 

Obviously they would work just fine without cooldowns.

 

🙃

[Janitsu.6284]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:27 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

They're talking about openworld

If you are talking about open world, why specifically mention fractals?

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

If you are talking about open world, why specifically mention fractals?

They said people pushed enemies quite far. Short of trolling, the only players that really do that often are rangers with longbow.

You don't generally run druid in open world, players using greatsword on mesmer usually are mirage farmers rather than StM, and darkrazor is usually enough CC for openworld breakbars. Maybe some players use Big Ol Bomb or mine kit on holosmith in openworld for no real reason. I don't think surge of the mists sends enemies flying that far (it's 120 knockback), I use it only in fractals and in the past in WvW but with superspeed meta and the windup time it isn't great anymore there.

---
Za Shaloc, sorry for these people derailing with the suggestions that have no chance of happening and aren't relevant.
 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Za Shaloc, sorry for these people derailing with the suggestions that have no chance of happening and aren't relevant.
 

 

Haha I don't mind.  Keeps the thread bumped, and realistically my ideas have virtually no chance of happening either, I just hope that a dev takes the time to read some of the stuff in here to identify that there are indeed problems with support Rev's performance, particularly in competitive modes. Sad how the roaming Ventari build I have been playing lately feels more effective than a support Ventari build. I have like 20 hours total on Guard and feel more effective on it as a support than the many thousands of hours I have spent on Rev. 

[Aeolus.3615]

20 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Haha I don't mind.  Keeps the thread bumped, and realistically my ideas have virtually no chance of happening either, I just hope that a dev takes the time to read some of the stuff in here to identify that there are indeed problems with support Rev's performance, particularly in competitive modes. Sad how the roaming Ventari build I have been playing lately feels more effective than a support Ventari build. I have like 20 hours total on Guard and feel more effective on it as a support than the many thousands of hours I have spent on Rev. 

.

interesting i am the oposite, ofc i feel that ventari needs to QoL in some skills(tablet movement and its elite, and herald could see some QoL changes towards support) but defenity i feel i can help way more than playing guard/fb.

Note that im talking WvW, but if its needed a heavy healer for the pve content im doing for some reason and ic many players going down, ill use my wvw build as well(passive regen alone is ~1.2k per sec for each ally lol and affects 10 players).

 

What build is that roaming ventari build? (i could see a tanky condi and healing power build working )

Ventari is way to heavy ernergy burn for the ventari rev to self sustain, i can see it working againt bad players with awfull builds but that's it, like those fullzerker rangers that have no defenses and stay stactic shooting melee range inside ventari dome...

 

Btw for those who play Herald/ventari  and look for support stats, minstrel are a waste those stats were more towards  renegade/ventari.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[reddie.5861]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:27 AM, Echo.6310 said:

 

Twitch is echo6310. Made some fresh boring videos for you there since all the guilds kept running from us. Aside from my outdated youtube channel for fractals (of which there isn't any other footage of support heralds doing T4s) I guess I now have some incentive to record gameplay with a guild that just recruited me, so thanks!

sadly all condi, if only there would be a proper dps build with healing power for ventari id play it.
been thinking to go celestial or something but waste of time for me getting all the gear xD

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

.

interesting i am the oposite, ofc i feel that ventari needs to QoL in some skills(tablet movement and its elite, and herald could see some QoL changes towards support) but defenity i feel i can help way more than playing guard/fb.

Note that im talking WvW, but if its needed a heavy healer for the pve content im doing for some reason and ic many players going down, ill use my wvw build as well(passive regen alone is ~1.2k per sec for each ally lol and affects 10 players).

 

What build is that roaming ventari build? (i could see a tanky condi and healing power build working )

Ventari is way to heavy ernergy burn for the ventari rev to self sustain, i can see it working againt bad players with awfull builds but that's it, like those fullzerker rangers that have no defenses and stay stactic shooting melee range inside ventari dome...

 

Btw for those who play Herald/ventari  and look for support stats, minstrel are a waste those stats were more towards  renegade/ventari.

 

This is the build. (Though I have been using doom sigil instead of air lately)

 

It is not a perfect build by any means, but I actually have a ton of success with it. I am a long-time roamer so I would like to think I actually know what I am talking about and am not advertising a bad build. The healing power from Ventari is on the weaker side, but a lot of its sustain comes from the barrier, pure damage avoidance, and the fact that it is Cele, and shortbow is such a strong weapon that allows the build to still bring pretty great damage. At worst I will stall certain matchups if they are also high on sustain, but otherwise I have no issue killing people with it.

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, reddie.5861 said:

sadly all condi, if only there would be a proper dps build with healing power for ventari id play it.
been thinking to go celestial or something but waste of time for me getting all the gear xD

 

there were builds like that in the past....

 

Named it the Sponge bob build due its health and how bob like condi but bob also likes heals, this  condi support has many variant stats some use marshal stats,  reminda Mattyr monks from gw1, pulling condis with its elites, blinding enemies with its healing skills, some ok'ish healz and condi removals.

Note that blinding truths has no CD would be aoe blind every 3 if used on tablet movement, quite trolly if u know how to LoS enemies and keep them failing hits with the enviromental terrain and objects.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmlAYVlhQLsIajJRaMIKjBSjMBygjqj/7H-zRJYvRFfJo+A-e

 

Old Dps'ish Herald/ventari support i played in the past, when DPS was free and heals were arround 14k aoes.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAw6ZllQKMKyiNRXsKCjFSisBqgn9kfrD-zxIY9ojvQCqESMCqOB8dV8L-e

Herald/ventari Cleric heal optimized for regen from herald passive also what i play:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAw6ZllQKMKyiNRXsKCjFSisBqgn9kVrD-zRIYf0xXGBVAVnAicAEq1sF/2sA-e

On pve its close to  1.2k pasive regen for each player and afecting 10players tota basicly 1200X10 per sec , on zealots stats regen m8 be arround 900i-1ksh probably.

 

 

Off-topic builds

Theres also non healing dps diviner jalis, or wanderer stats for comander, hight stability roads and alacrity  being diviner the dps and wanderer the sturdier version of it.

Somehting arround this (wanderer abit potato but very sturdy, needs some beeeff support form others to crit better can work like a troller/ogre build to bait enemies so its more toward master baiters  ).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAIZltQHsNyhpRNsM6hNSfMDKgl1l67H-zRJYnRF/J4xB-e

Diviner Version: (use vengefull hammer while on staff for since skill with triger sigils)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAIZltQHsNyhpRNsM6hNSfMDKgF1l67H-zRJYwRF/p0kCoOJQfigAFCecA-e

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Virdo.1540]

They could pump up Ventari -Facet of Nature, move elevated compassion from herald to one of the Salvation orb traits (which are all complete garbage)  and be the tablet move a 10man-heal.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Virdo.1540

[Aeolus.3615]

34 minutes ago, Virdo.1540 said:

They could pump up Ventari -Facet of Nature, move elevated compassion from herald to one of the Salvation orb traits (which are all complete garbage)  and be the tablet move a 10man-heal.

 

i would rather leave  that on herald,  would create less conflict in Ventari trait like,  dont forget that herald is support as well, both legend  have somewhat decent sync.

 

Issue with orbs its  that the playstyle for it, is close to  inexistent, one can play melee build with staff orbs with jalis hammer spins wich decrease damage taken and heal, plus with vampiric runes its more health incoming and stealth healh from enemy, thing is... it sounds very good but its just that and wont happen that much this kinda of ocasions lol...

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAYlpQHMLyhdRNMM6hJSfsCKgnq1X7G-zRJYhRB/Z0nComJgJmlRNjA-e

 

or core

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAYlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgF/T16D-zRJYhRB/Z0nComJgJmlRNjA-e:

 

the staff herald?? LOL i dont see any one playin this lol, has soome hself heals and vampirc stuff going on.

 

Problem with orbs is the playstyle is not compelling... nor atractive to build arround it.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

They could pump up Ventari -Facet of Nature, move elevated compassion from herald to one of the Salvation orb traits (which are all complete garbage)  and be the tablet move a 10man-heal.

 

I agree with @Aeolus.3615 that EC should stay in Herald. It fits very nicely with the boon legend and moving it to Salvation would put it at unfortunate competition with the other traits. It being in Herald is not the issue, its somewhat lackluster state is.

 

I do agree that FoN-V could be bumped up though. IMO it was hit far too hard. When it was first implemented and then buffed (because it was lackluster) it was such an amazing buff for Ventari Heralds. To me it really kept the legend going and filled in a lot of the issues it currently faces. Now in PvP/WvW it feels very meh.  

[Shao.7236]

Personally I don't think much change is needed, if the tablet could follow the user in a way or other it would make things a lot better. Ventari as it is right now is still really potent and not to be underestimated. The traits are kinda underwhelming for self care but they still work in general.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

22 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Personally I don't think much change is needed, if the tablet could follow the user in a way or other it would make things a lot better. Ventari as it is right now is still really potent and not to be underestimated. The traits are kinda underwhelming for self care but they still work in general.

 

Yeah, although I find the healing on Natural Harmony to now be a bit undertuned, I do agree with you that Ventari can be very potent. I am conflicted about the idea of the tablet following the player, though this would obviously be a huge buff to the legend. I would rather see them put in more effort into refining their current concept than to water it down into another PBAoE spec. 

[Aeolus.3615]

10 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Yeah, although I find the healing on Natural Harmony to now be a bit undertuned, I do agree with you that Ventari can be very potent. I am conflicted about the idea of the tablet following the player, though this would obviously be a huge buff to the legend. I would rather see them put in more effort into refining their current concept than to water it down into another PBAoE spec. 

 

IMO 2sec CD  and increase its heal would  be interesting, note that Ventari players have a blind aoe blind aplication on heal skill usage W/O ICD.

 

Maybe add 5sec ICD to the trait itself, and reduce tablet movement CD.

Natural Harmony is the HP up beast skill, but atm should be scalign better with healinpower or should be cheaper to cast, lost its hp up woosh effect , note there are still skills that hit misntrells by 10k-15k, those heavy hits should have something to balance them.

 

Note as well Ventari support has more drawbacks than any other support class or build, it should be a strong ouput.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Note as well Ventari support has more drawbacks than any other support class or build, it should be a strong ouput.

 

Dunno about "any other". Druid is gated behind both a resource and a 20 seconds cooldown in pvp to output any decent healing at all, and that healing isn't particularly strong to begin with. Anet kinda made it clear when the only classes to recieve compensation to outgoing healing after removing mender's amulet were warrior, guardian and ele. Other professions that should have a support option in competetive modes, but don't, are left behind - ventari rev included.

[Aeolus.3615]

46 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Dunno about "any other". Druid is gated behind both a resource and a 20 seconds cooldown in pvp to output any decent healing at all, and that healing isn't particularly strong to begin with. Anet kinda made it clear when the only classes to recieve compensation to outgoing healing after removing mender's amulet were warrior, guardian and ele. Other professions that should have a support option in competetive modes, but don't, are left behind - ventari rev included.

 

Ventari has blocks from staff3, somewhat decent condi cleanse and some healign for the user nothign more, dont forge that healing skill is tablet movement and if heals caster its like 600HP heal, ventari ways of "self sustain" come from weapons heal and its 25e self 3k heal utility wich most time is on alies.

Ventari itself  has no stability, no stun breaker, no resistance, only boon is alacrity, imo this is what is called trade off to have a strong heal-

Edit: my tabled movement was healing arround 900HP tough was hald of it.

 

Towards druid that is its design flaw,  druid was created initially as a gimmick to troll with super sustain and CC, way to fix it is change how the CE energy works to be similiar to rev as i stated in druid forum, make druid enter CA like a rev changes legend and start with 50 energy, but with less pips maybe... some sorta of change combat mode between celestial mode and Druid itself.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

Ventari, the entire legend and it's skills and the tablet mechanics, are an abortion. Needs to be taken out back and shot, then replaced with something that actually works.

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Ventari, the entire legend and it's skills and the tablet mechanics, are an abortion. Needs to be taken out back and shot, then replaced with something that actually works.

 

go QQ back to  remove reflect thread 😵, alot of players know how burnden is tablet for rev if he swap to it... it's a dead revenant :P, even under range pressure.

 

Complaining now about it doesnt give u a nice label

 

And btw Ventari tablet  works for what was designed, IF U CANT BE CARRIED BY IT doesnt mean is not working.

 

Another l2p issue towards yoru side, not every one needs spammers build.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

druid was created initially as a gimmick to troll with super sustain and CC,

 

Not really, that's just what it has been reduced to after nerfing everything else and not reworking Ancient Seeds.

 

Both tablet and CA are kitten designs for support, really.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Aeolus.3615]

19 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Not really, that's just what it has been reduced to after nerfing everything else and not reworking Ancient Seeds.

 

Both tablet and CA are kitten designs for support, really.

 

Tablet is fine, its a diferent play, a diferent mechanic not everythign needs to be utilites arround the toon to spam... and its actually atm is  easier to use natural harmony , before had a 2sec delay like Gw1 patient spirit and was to be  used the same way, u need to predict where would be needed, it was ok but a burden to most, Anet reduced the delay.

Maybe its not a specialization for most players to play (like some arent for me) and m8 be hard for quite some since most player alone and/or in a zerg, and dont understand when to swap or when to use, most players that ic dont even know when to use FB books nor jalis elite skill...being ventari a bit more complicated towards the when to use and its capabilities.

 

If i need a heal faster then the normal process of movement,  theres a trick to heal 1st and move tablet after, dont repeat this much times cause will make u deplete energy. (one of the reason im asking for Anet to revice tablet movement ftom 3 to 2 seconds and add a ICD on the blind on healing trait)

 

Herald and Ventari need only some light QoL tunes to be  in a very good gameplay towards support compared with what Druid needs, CA mechanics in druid is lacklustr for the current game.

 

About Ventari, its ment for dedication support for others when others need or are in dangers, that has its trade-offs and most players that use this legend as main build like myself are ok with it even if we are almost siting duck using it(the less people know how easy is to counter ir the better), just need some numbers slightly changed nothing more.

 

And trust me, i use this on wvw in large or small scale combat since its release, and i dont play in zerg...vs pvd.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

8 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Ventari, the entire legend and it's skills and the tablet mechanics, are an abortion. Needs to be taken out back and shot, then replaced with something that actually works.

Revenant is often played backwards by players who don't understand it. There are several ways to capitalize on Ventari abilities without being a sitting duck, it is definitely a L2P issue if mixing legends appears to be too hard of a concept to grasp.

 

Inspiring Reinforcement is one of the most obvious skills as an example to use in synergy with any other legend, Ventari being no exception given the ability to have permanent projectile denial on top of being able to CC people even while stunned. It is not a slouch by any means and the healing is quite literally one of the best in game.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/27/2021 at 8:42 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Revenant is often played backwards by players who don't understand it. There are several ways to capitalize on Ventari abilities without being a sitting duck, it is definitely a L2P issue if mixing legends appears to be too hard of a concept to grasp.

 

Inspiring Reinforcement is one of the most obvious skills as an example to use in synergy with any other legend, Ventari being no exception given the ability to have permanent projectile denial on top of being able to CC people even while stunned. It is not a slouch by any means and the healing is quite literally one of the best in game.

 

 

 

meanwhile i tough was only in spvp but players in WvW are starting to pm me bad names since they cant kill easilly... 😱

Meanwhile i just kept dodging and condi cleasing.... he had to much burn aplyince for a scepter power build(range QQ), good thing that rev heals on condi cleanse, and a blind every 3 sec... think that the blind no ICD trait is a bit strong.

 

note:Asking big changes would be bad IMO, people hate when something is not meta works...

         There isnt much to fix, just small adjustments.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Aeolus.3615