Scourge needs another nerf, it is extremely obnoxious and unfun to play against

[Aktium.9506]

22 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

( IE: Soul Marks )

 

 

Trust me when I say that no one wants Staff to be reworked as much as Necros. It's an incredibly boring but necessary utility weapon for most builds.

[Bast.7253]

Reaper and core to me are far more of a threat than scourge. Scourge is really only as good as the team they're working with. They're also really slow, so if you see them clogging up a cap just go somewhere else. They also don't run that many teleport abilities like spectral shroud or worm.

Scourge can still be focused down/spiked far easier than any of the other necro builds. It's just that most people don't understand the concept of.. oh.. there's a giant glowing shade/bubble here that's loading me up conditions, stripping my boons, and damaging me... but I'm just going to sit in it and soak it.

Then they come and complain on the forums about how overpowered scourge is because it occasionally has a few seconds of barrier and a fear.

I do agree that minion-oriented necro builds can be pretty cancerous, but I've seen some core necro minionmancers that did WAY more than what I've been able to do with scourge. And if you're fighting them, just play something that has high single target damage or kill the pets. Their best defense is their offense due to immob, blinds, and knockdowns from pets combined with boon stripping and some occasional barrier.

 

[crewthief.8649]

9 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

For necros being 1 shotted from stealth from mes thiefs is unfun and classes able to instantly abuse cleanses to become 100% immune to conditions is also unfun.

 

Dealing with classes with tons of stuns able to stunlock you from range immobilize and root you is unfun.

 

What razeli said is true. Its about if its broken and abused in such a way that it can't be countered.

 

Also i think ez to play hard to play is subjective too.

 

I've seen some builds on some classes that seemed ez to play. Warr didn't seem that hard to play to be effective, and holo looks pretty ez so does guardian.

 

 

Since when are Thieves one-shooting Necro?

[crewthief.8649]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:33 PM, Axl.8924 said:

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[crewthief.8649]

19 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Ragnar.4257]

15 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

i cannot agree with that.

As i said previously scourge by it self is not  a problem in my opinion, but the synergy between scourge and core support guardian, and their combined ress potential

2x scourge is pretty much just as annoying to fight as 1x scourge 1x supp-guard. Whereas, 2x supp-guard is an inefficient joke.

 

Hmmmmmmm, what's the common denominator here?

Edited May 11, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Master Ketsu.4569]

31 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

2x scourge is pretty much just as annoying to fight as 1x scourge 1x supp-guard. 2x supp-guard is a joke.

 

Hmmmmmmm, what's the common denominator here?

 

[Touchme.1097]

There are a few counters to necro in sPvP, I can name a few: Deadeye, Soulbeast and more to come

[razaelll.8324]

7 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

2x scourge is pretty much just as annoying to fight as 1x scourge 1x supp-guard. Whereas, 2x supp-guard is an inefficient joke.

 

Hmmmmmmm, what's the common denominator here?

I dont have problems fighting against 2 scourges , but they are definitely more effective than double support guardian as you pointed out. But scourge and guardian is much better and harder to kill than double scourge in my opinion.

Edited May 11, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Axl.8924]

8 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Since when are Thieves one-shooting Necro?

Thiefs aren't the only one to use stuns warriors too can stun. Reapers can use stuns.

 

The point is that just because its annoying doesn't mean we should nerf it.

 

If we go by the standards some folks go, then anything that that you don't want to learn how to fight, lets say instance holosmith should get nerfed into the ground. Maybe its not overpowered at all, maybe its counterable but people don't want to learn how to counter it.

 

I've seen this argument used for all sorts of classes ad nauseum and its gets tiresome, same as the argument that X class is more skilled than 1 class, so y class shouldn't exist in pvp scene and get nerfed into oblivion. By doing that, you might eliminate said class completely from playing pvp, and is that fair? heck no, because each class works differently.

 

Instead of deleting classes, what you could do is rework them so it works but also to make sure it has a counter.

 

Also if you keep nerfing, you are contributing to the death of GW2. Nerfing nec into the ground means that the classes which counter it will have to be nerfed into the ground then the classes that counter that class and then eventually every class will feel worse and contribute to the death of guild wars 2.

 

Fun is already very subjective as is.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Koensol.5860]

Necro's in general, but especially scourge and core are ruining a big part of my enjoyment in PvP. In ranked it's such a huge carry class. And to the people saying, if there is a scourge sitting on node, just leave... it's not always that easy. At one point you have got to start capping point and you cannot always run somewhere else, especially when the other necro and guardian/tempest are carrying the midfight. 

 

Necro's are just far too obnoxious to play against for how easy they are to play. Especially if you play a melee oriented spec. I'm kiting around them trying to damage them, going in and out, while trying to stay out of the huge AoE's they are casually throwing around while sitting literally still on the node. Before I can even properly pressure them I have a ton of condi and am being spammed with instant cast fears and other cancer. Oh and lets not even mention lich, the skill that can instantly turn a losing fight into a win by spamming light attacks that do between 5 and 11k dmg, depending on build. 

 

I know I am probably a bit biased, but man it's unfun to play against. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Koensol.5860

[Jayce.5632]

**Yawn** Scourge here.

 

You know what I hate fighting against? I-Frame Attacks. As a Necro, I currently have 3 (too many imho) IFAs, 2 of which are only projectile immunities, with only 1 of those having maximum skill synergy. Guess which class has more than 3. This is a mechanic that actually breaks PvP balance at its most basic fundamental level and should almost never exist. Even if you do include such a mechanic into your game, it should be an extremely rare occurrence, elite skill comes to mind here. But in GW2, it's handed out like candy.

 

I hate IFAs so much I quit competitive PvP back before they even had seasons. I hate IFAs so much that the only thing I do now is to try and help people learn how to fight against Necros, Scourges in particular. I hate IFAs so much that the dwindling population is even lucky that I even look at the unranked button, much less actually click on it. You want to have a serious talk about balance, start addressing that IFAs kitten first. Until then, NF mate, IGNF

 

**Goes Back To Sleep**

[KrHome.1920]

11 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

Reaper and core to me are far more of a threat than scourge. Scourge is really only as good as the team they're working with. They're also really slow, so if you see them clogging up a cap just go somewhere else. They also don't run that many teleport abilities like spectral shroud or worm.

Scourge can still be focused down/spiked far easier than any of the other necro builds. It's just that most people don't understand the concept of.. oh.. there's a giant glowing shade/bubble here that's loading me up conditions, stripping my boons, and damaging me... but I'm just going to sit in it and soak it.

Then they come and complain on the forums about how overpowered scourge is because it occasionally has a few seconds of barrier and a fear.

I do agree that minion-oriented necro builds can be pretty cancerous, but I've seen some core necro minionmancers that did WAY more than what I've been able to do with scourge. And if you're fighting them, just play something that has high single target damage or kill the pets. Their best defense is their offense due to immob, blinds, and knockdowns from pets combined with boon stripping and some occasional barrier.

 

The problem with scourge is synergies with other classes (or even other scourges).

 

Of course this is a trash 1v1 class. That's trivial. No one is denying that.

 

Now you would expect that anet might move scourge more towards can stand on its own and away from its not fun to play against team synergies. But we get a nice blood bank buff - just another synergy trait, as if the impact of incoming team heals wasn't already big enough.

[Aihao.5824]

as for me, scg isnt a problem, much more annoying is core necro,  as i feel it has more survivability and hp what gives him an opportunity to facetank almost every damage.  core necro doesnt care about what dmg do u have - condi, power or what else

he just tanks everything. 

[KrHome.1920]

Core does care about hard cc. You can stunlock core necro until you run out of stuns whenever you want - esp. when he is in shroud.

 

When I fight a core necro with reaper:

grasping darkness > burst

spectral grasp > burst

chilled to the bone > burst

terrify > burst 

executioner scythe > burst

dead core necro

 

It's so ridiculously easy.

 

Long cast times, no mobility, no stability => trash spec

 

Regarding the blood bank buff:

Tried blood bank on reaper today and it's quite potent. This must be completely broken on a supported scourge as there is no shroud that denies incoming heals half of the fight.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[AleCenta.2190]

Nec is one of the best class for noobs because other noobs don't know how to play against it, and they come complaining about that spec on forum. Deadeye oneshooting people from 1200 range is fine, soulbeast is fine, herald is totally fine, dh trap is fine. If you see 2 scourges in enemy team they are slow as kitten but you can't properly rotate for sure and then after facetanking them you come here on forum.

[crewthief.8649]

On 5/11/2021 at 3:16 AM, Axl.8924 said:

Thiefs aren't the only one to use stuns warriors too can stun. Reapers can use stuns.

 

The point is that just because its annoying doesn't mean we should nerf it.

 

If we go by the standards some folks go, then anything that that you don't want to learn how to fight, lets say instance holosmith should get nerfed into the ground. Maybe its not overpowered at all, maybe its counterable but people don't want to learn how to counter it.

 

I've seen this argument used for all sorts of classes ad nauseum and its gets tiresome, same as the argument that X class is more skilled than 1 class, so y class shouldn't exist in pvp scene and get nerfed into oblivion. By doing that, you might eliminate said class completely from playing pvp, and is that fair? heck no, because each class works differently.

 

Instead of deleting classes, what you could do is rework them so it works but also to make sure it has a counter.

 

Also if you keep nerfing, you are contributing to the death of GW2. Nerfing nec into the ground means that the classes which counter it will have to be nerfed into the ground then the classes that counter that class and then eventually every class will feel worse and contribute to the death of guild wars 2.

 

Fun is already very subjective as is.

 

What does any of this have to do with what I asked? I asked, “since when are Thieves one-shotting Necros?”. I get what you’re saying, but clearly nerfing things into non-viability is precisely the answer. After all, that’s been a common theme with GW2 throughout its existence. Take the February 2020 patch, for example. Power builds were again indirectly nerfed with yesterday’s patch (condi receiving an indirect buff with the change to resistance). I’m a power player and would not feel a bit bad over some of these condi bunker classes getting nerfed.

Edited May 12, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Stand The Wall.6987]

what counters scourge + core guard comp?

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

What does any of this have to do with what I asked? I asked, “since when are Thieves one-shotting Necros?”. I get what you’re saying, but clearly nerfing things into non-viability is precisely the answer. After all, that’s been a common theme with GW2 throughout its existence. Take the February 2020 patch, for example. Power builds were again indirectly nerfed with yesterday’s patch (condi receiving an indirect buff with the change to resistance). I’m a power player and would not feel a bit bad over some of these condi bunker classes getting nerfed.

Well i mean i'm not sure if they can right now if thats what your asking.

 

Then again didn't condi thief get buffed with the 11th patch? not sure how good it is.

 

I haven't played in a while but damage got nerfed a lot on thieves, because people complained and ranted about stealth kills, especially deadeye, then you had thieves complain that damage keeps getting nerfed and stealth and mobility and whatnot.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Axl.8924

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Well i mean i'm not sure if they can right now if thats what your asking.

 

Then again didn't condi thief get buffed with the 11th patch? not sure how good it is.

 

I haven't played in a while but damage got nerfed a lot on thieves, because people complained and ranted about stealth kills, especially deadeye, then you had thieves complain that damage keeps getting nerfed and stealth and mobility and whatnot.

 

They definitely cannot one-shot a Necromancer. I believe their condi build did get a buff. All condi received an indirect buff.

[Axl.8924]

11 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

They definitely cannot one-shot a Necromancer. I believe their condi build did get a buff. All condi received an indirect buff.

 

It used to be but damage was severely lowered over the years. people complained about how mobile thieves were with damage and it got nerfed repeatedly, some of the nerfs are well controversial.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Axl.8924