Can we walk back some of the changes made on the 02/25/2020 "competitive" update please?

[TheBravery.9615]

Namely,

 

(1) The blanket nerf of all skills that apply control effects to nil damage and

(2) The blanket nerf of "passive" traits that increased their internal cooldown to 300s

 

These two changes were one step in the right direction, and two steps in the wrong direction. They need to be addressed individually. These nerfs were too overbearing and made the skills/traits associated with them near useless.

Edited May 17, 2021 by TheBravery.9615

[lockhart.6048]

I'm down with reverting some of those traits. Ele and warrior got hit super hard with them. I think one warrior trait line has 2 of them, and the endure pain one doesn't have that good alternatives if you're not running mace.

[DemonSeed.3528]

They need to do something about those traits with the 300s cd like ages ago. This is why I don't have confidence in them anymore. They could have added at least another flavoured trait in there that would make for a varied build instead of a useless trait that locks you with the other 2 choices. Basically no matter how you see it, it's a deleted trait from specialisation that no one in their right mind would take. It's the alliances of trait lines.

[Metzie.3012]

19 minutes ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

Namely,

 

(1) The blanket nerf of all skills that apply control effects to nil damage and

(2) The blanket nerf of "passive" traits that increased their internal cooldown to 300s

 

These two changes were one step in the right direction, and two steps in the wrong direction. They need to be addressed individually. These nerfs were too overbearing and made the skills/traits associated with them near useless.

 

Whenever I read such posts, I also have to think of the following (which many have probably forgotten by now):

 

Wiki: Falling damage (effects)

Quote

Historical
Prior to the December 3, 2019 game update, every profession had a trait which halved falling damage and granted one or more other effects after falling.

 

Wiki: Game updates/2019-12-03

Quote

With a larger competitive-focused update on the horizon, this update is on the smaller side but still contains several notable systemic changes. Falling damage traits are being removed IN ORDER TO FREE UP DESIGN SPACE reduce the complexity of adept-tier traits.

 

💡

[XenesisII.1540]

Push damage skill after pushing cc skill, if you need to, push another damage skill to follow up, before pressing f to finish.

 

[Junkpile.7439]

Funny how they didn't even find motivation to add new traits. I mean they "removed" these traits, but it was easier just change cooldown than leave empty spot in trait tree.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Junkpile.7439

[DemonSeed.3528]

2 hours ago, Metzie.3012 said:

 

Whenever I read such posts, I also have to think of the following (which many have probably forgotten by now):

 

Wiki: Falling damage (effects)

 

Wiki: Game updates/2019-12-03

 

💡

I really miss fall damage traits! They were so fun and made for unique strategies.

[crewthief.8649]

10 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Push damage skill after pushing cc skill, if you need to, push another damage skill to follow up, before pressing f to finish.

 

Warrior relied quite a lot on the damage of some of those CC skills. Take hammer, for example, only the AA and #2 skill do damage now. The nerf effectively killed that weapon. The problem with this blanket nerf was it didn’t take into account the nuances of different professions. ALL of Warrior’s heavy hitters are highly telegraphed (as is most of the CC), as such CC is required to reliably land those skills, and with Warrior specifically, those CC skills were a vital part of their DPS. Why shouldn’t you be punished for being hit by a Bull’s Rush from 900 units away?

[Jski.6180]

We need some walk back from this update 10 target perma alacrity dose not fit with wvw power scaling. As well as scraper quinkess needs to be hit or pop like every one is asking for.

[TheBravery.9615]

Yes, CC shouldn't deal a lot of damage but 27 damage? come on. Now it's a waste of cast time.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

Namely,

 

(1) The blanket nerf of all skills that apply control effects to nil damage and

(2) The blanket nerf of "passive" traits that increased their internal cooldown to 300s

 

These two changes were one step in the right direction, and two steps in the wrong direction. They need to be addressed individually. These nerfs were too overbearing and made the skills/traits associated with them near useless.

 

Agree. Ranged CC and melee CC should both have been tuned and brought back up based on risk versus reward. Gap closers for melee should have damage aspect's to them. That's there point, close the gap and damage a ranged target. This patch was more to address glass on glass. If need be buff defense stats but up these abilities. We don't need more nerfs but some boosts. The 300 cooldown abilities just need to go at this point or tuned. Would love to see ANet's stats if anyone is actually still using them at this point. Boons versus conditions still need to be monitored but after a week we still very boon heavy. 

[crewthief.8649]

4 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

Agree. Ranged CC and melee CC should both have been tuned and brought back up based on risk versus reward. Gap closers for melee should have damage aspect's to them. That's there point, close the gap and damage a ranged target. This patch was more to address glass on glass. If need be buff defense stats but up these abilities. We don't need more nerfs but some boosts. The 300 cooldown abilities just need to go at this point or tuned. Would love to see ANet's stats if anyone is actually still using them at this point. Boons versus conditions still need to be monitored but after a week we still very boon heavy. 

If anything, ranged CC should do very little damage, but melee? Why should my hammer burst skill be doing 15 freaking damage on crit???

[LetoII.3782]

Mount stomp back plz

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

just give me the full dmg of all skills back. lately since the strength rune bug we got a big reminder that nerf wars 2 is boring compared to what we had before this cursed feb2020 "balance" patch.

 

and about the cc's... imo all slow CC's shoulda have dmg. the fast ones not, or way less at least.

[TheBravery.9615]

3 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

and about the cc's... imo all slow CC's shoulda have dmg. the fast ones not, or way less at least.

nah lets not do another blanket approach to this. Each skill needs to be assessed individually. E.g. Warrior hammer 5 backbreaker only targets a single enemy and has a long windup, no leap or anything. It needs damage. Warrior hammer burst Earthshaker is pretty quick and has a leap and is aoe, but requires adrenaline to pull it off as it's a profession mechanic.

 

 

[TheBravery.9615]

Meanwhile scrapper 5 is a ground targeted AOE stun... and guess what. It damages.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

and guess what, scrapper was till now  still not really used as a dps class anymore. it was usable in cloudformation, but not for serious comps, despite the hammer5 "dmg".

 

notsure if there are new builds now, but sofar i think not. i personally had no time yet to check really, tbh.

[Infusion.7149]

7 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

Meanwhile scrapper 5 is a ground targeted AOE stun... and guess what. It damages.

While Thunderclap stuns, the first pulse does no damage.

That said , skills with an obvious tell such as warrior hammer skills (not so much the burst) with obvious animations should get damage restored especially if on a long cooldown.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The balance team is on record as being OKAY with CC's doing damage if you have to take a trait for it. Warrior has a trait, but it does a single stack of bleed on CC.

 

Garbage.

 

Here is what it should be:

Body Blow: Crowd Control effects weaken (5s) targets and deal damage.

 

Not a lot of damage, but something that on a DPS setup can hit for 1-2k on a crit depending on traits. There is an interaction with stability right now that causes body blow to not take effect if the target has stability, that would still be the case so there would even be counter play to such a trait.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

best example: hammer rev/herald: huge, obvious, superslow animation. its maximum levels nuts that it lost its dmg.

 

surely, it would have been smarter if every skill was rated first before the full nerf. but lol, who did really expect them to do this?

 

and a big amount of old skills probably will never get their buffs. instead, they buffed the freaking greatbow dragonhunter, like the hell. it had dmg before, if anything the longbow 5 was too restricting.

 

some of the coolest skin in game are greatswords; yet, there is not a single greatsword build really viable. GS spellbreaker, soulbeast, guardian,  reaper, mirage... nothing of that should be really brought to Wvw. the weapons just don't work in a largescale format in most cases. the only debateable things are surely reaper, spb, dps guard, yet event there its rather selfish random builds, i'd say.

[TheBravery.9615]

https://i.imgur.com/G2SeNJX.png

 

This is so stupid.

 

 

Rage. Stun your target and stun yourself. Gain adrenaline and extend berserk duration if you hit. This skill removes all stability and deals increased damage if stability was removed.

 

Damage: 3

 

OH YEAH 5 DAMAGE INSTEAD OF 3

 

Who's the brilliant mastermind behind this?

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 5/17/2021 at 4:47 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

While Thunderclap stuns, the first pulse does no damage.

That said , skills with an obvious tell such as warrior hammer skills (not so much the burst) with obvious animations should get damage restored especially if on a long cooldown.

 

I think if they went with the idea discussed that larger hitting abilities would have longer cooldowns was somewhat welcome. What we got was a lot of nerfed abilities that did no damage. Put back some of the damage and if we need longer cooldowns than so be it. And as stated above, 300 second cooldown traits aren't traits. You are left with only 2 choices in those spots. These should be adjusted for other options or need to have passive effects added to them that are outside the cooldown.