No Downed State?

[Sarpan.9074]

Fairly new to WVW. I know what "No Downed State" is but don't understand why it's desirable/useful.
 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Rez (the ability to ressurect players from down state) power is particulalry power even in zerg situations (massive fights), therefore making it difficult to properly defeat an enemy if they continuously resurrect their allies.

 

For that downed players are usually focused on, at the expense of not "paying attention" to the living enemies, because someone may pop signets, banners, illusions etc and resurrect like 10 people after a range spike (coordinated attack from range) and turn the tables.

 

With no downstate many players, including myself tbh, believe that the gameplay will become more engaging. No reason for resurrecting abilities to enter our skillbars (can be used for combat instead) and less punishment for not cleaving a downed player to 0 health in risky situations.

 

Also, welcome to WvW!!!! 🥳

Edited May 28, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Sarpan.9074]

Thanks again. 😁

[Dawdler.8521]

To further elaborate you usually end up in a clash of two types of thinking here:

 

Some think that WvW is a strategical/tactical MMO where each player is just another soldier and you counter force with force. Meaning, if you fail to win a 2v10, you bring 4v10. If you fail to win that you bring 8v10. If you fail to win that you bring 14v10. Downed state is just a deeper tactical layer in combat between groups that allow some flex between numbers and skill and it emphasize the ability to assist each other - if you couldnt stomp or res, your group brought the wrong tools or you got outplayed because they did.

 

Others think that them failing to win the above is because they're pros, the enemies are always bad and the game cripples their personal ability to kill that bad enemy (the imbalanced numbers is Anets fault, of course). So they want it removed in order to win more.

 

Between the two types, one usually accept compromising on downstate - be it removal of rally, changes to hp/speeds etc - but still considers it a vital part of the GW2 combat system and what makes it GW2 instead of just another MMO, while the others accept nothing except deletion so any discussion on it quickly become pointless. 

 

As polls have shown, a majority is in favor of keeping downstate even though one side often claims otherwise.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[saerni.2584]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

To further elaborate you usually end up in a clash of two types of thinking here:

 

Some think that WvW is a strategical/tactical MMO where each player is just another soldier and you counter force with force. Meaning, if you fail to win a 2v10, you bring 4v10. If you fail to win that you bring 8v10. If you fail to win that you bring 14v10. Downed state is just a deeper tactical layer in combat between groups that allow some flex between numbers and skill and it emphasize the ability to assist each other - if you couldnt stomp or res, your group brought the wrong tools or you got outplayed because they did.

 

Others think that them failing to win the above is because they're pros, the enemies are always bad and the game cripples their personal ability to kill that bad enemy (the imbalanced numbers is Anets fault, of course). So they want it removed in order to win more.

 

Between the two types, one usually accept compromising on downstate - be it removal of rally, changes to hp/speeds etc - but still considers it a vital part of the GW2 combat system and what makes it GW2 instead of just another MMO, while the others accept nothing except deletion so any discussion on it quickly become pointless. 

 

As polls have shown, a majority is in favor of keeping downstate even though one side often claims otherwise.

And that mentality is generally why we get maybe 1 no-downstate event per year, sometimes 2. The majority like playing with the extra cushion of being able to rally and not just have to run back to the group every time they get spiked.
 

Downstate also creates more strategy at the large group level, where the majority spend their time, due to being able to play around a downed target(s) by creating the secondary role of focusing and "securing" downs as kills. 

No downstate tends to be the favored mode for smaller scale roamers who often fight outnumbered. It saves a lot of time and risk by being able to just kill a target and move on to the next. Also, most duo roaming compositions use stealth to enable resurrections on their allies and it is less "fun" for a solo roamer to down someone in a 1v3 only to see that down instantly, or stealth, resurrected without the ability to stomp or cleave sufficiently. That is compounded by some downed skills doing a lot of damage or cc, making it hard to just ignore the down and move on to the other targets who are resurrecting their ally. 
 

I like both. I think both have merits and that's why I enjoy the events when they happen knowing that 90% of the time I will be playing with downstate like normal. 

[Paralent.8564]

6 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

resurrect like 10 people after a range spike (coordinated attack from range) and turn the tables

That's exactly why the majority of WvW veterans prefer to keep downstate the norm and "no downstate" as an occasional event, as has been shown repeatedly in the past when this topic comes up. Two blobs pirate shipping each other from range make the game less engaging and further limit the already narrow scope of builds that are considered desirable.

 

Downstate also creates some interesting situations while roaming. It's not always a situation where the roaming side with a numbers advantage can never die due to rezzing; it's just an extra layer to prepare for, with reveals, interrupts, blinds, etc. all having a valuable role to play.

 

And besides, who doesn't want to use their finishers once in a while? 😉

[KrHome.1920]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

To further elaborate you usually end up in a clash of two types of thinking here:

 

Some think that WvW is a strategical/tactical MMO where each player is just another soldier and you counter force with force. Meaning, if you fail to win a 2v10, you bring 4v10. If you fail to win that you bring 8v10. If you fail to win that you bring 14v10. Downed state is just a deeper tactical layer in combat between groups that allow some flex between numbers and skill and it emphasize the ability to assist each other - if you couldnt stomp or res, your group brought the wrong tools or you got outplayed because they did.

 

Others think that them failing to win the above is because they're pros, the enemies are always bad and the game cripples their personal ability to kill that bad enemy (the imbalanced numbers is Anets fault, of course). So they want it removed in order to win more.

 

Between the two types, one usually accept compromising on downstate - be it removal of rally, changes to hp/speeds etc - but still considers it a vital part of the GW2 combat system and what makes it GW2 instead of just another MMO, while the others accept nothing except deletion so any discussion on it quickly become pointless. 

 

As polls have shown, a majority is in favor of keeping downstate even though one side often claims otherwise.

 

The bias is strong with this one!

[schloumou.3982]

7 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

To further elaborate you usually end up in a clash of two types of thinking here:

 

Some think that WvW is a strategical/tactical MMO where each player is just another soldier and you counter force with force. Meaning, if you fail to win a 2v10, you bring 4v10. If you fail to win that you bring 8v10. If you fail to win that you bring 14v10. Downed state is just a deeper tactical layer in combat between groups that allow some flex between numbers and skill and it emphasize the ability to assist each other - if you couldnt stomp or res, your group brought the wrong tools or you got outplayed because they did.

 

Others think that them failing to win the above is because they're pros, the enemies are always bad and the game cripples their personal ability to kill that bad enemy (the imbalanced numbers is Anets fault, of course). So they want it removed in order to win more.

 

Between the two types, one usually accept compromising on downstate - be it removal of rally, changes to hp/speeds etc - but still considers it a vital part of the GW2 combat system and what makes it GW2 instead of just another MMO, while the others accept nothing except deletion so any discussion on it quickly become pointless. 

 

As polls have shown, a majority is in favor of keeping downstate even though one side often claims otherwise.

 

Very in depth analysis of why DS can be considered unhealthy/healthy for the game in it's current form. You should be dev.

Edited May 28, 2021 by schloumou.3982

[Choppy.4183]

9 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

 

The bias is strong with this one!

 

He's not wrong though. And I say that as someone who would benefit from no downstate because I'm usually trying to burst down people in larger groups where finishing the job by getting through a downstate can be a death sentence if I commit.

[MedievalThings.5417]

7 hours ago, Sarpan.9074 said:

Fairly new to WVW. I know what "No Downed State" is but don't understand why it's desirable/useful.
 

It's a pve mechanic.  Blobs with little skill hide behind the .1 second resses and win fights against more skilled, smaller opponents just because they have more people.  No downstate removes that advantage.  I can defend 15 vs 50 for a short while.  During that fight, I can constantly down tons of players, yet, they all get ressed in a fraction of a second.  With no downstate, every down is a kill, and the 15 can win the fight.  Skill should beat numbers, but in this game it doesn't.

[Clownmug.8357]

It's an event that lets stacked servers snowball harder in exchange for giving tryhards the potential to pubstomp larger groups.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Clownmug.8357

[schloumou.3982]

23 minutes ago, Choppy.4183 said:

He's not wrong though.

lol

[Thornwolf.9721]

15 hours ago, Sarpan.9074 said:

Fairly new to WVW. I know what "No Downed State" is but don't understand why it's desirable/useful.
 

Because most of us hate down-state and believe when you die, you die. Leave it be. It gives me an excuse to be a merciless little stink and go full evil for a week. Then return to the status quo... think of it as... Guild wars 2's version of the purge.

[Dawdler.8521]

13 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

lol

 

Disagree with it all you want but I mean at least the last paragraph seem to hit home, lol.

 

6 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Because most of us hate down-state

 

[XenesisII.1540]

Gets rid of two crutches, easy rally and res skills, for bigger groups, so the "skilled" or "cheese" build players can control outnumbered situations better.