invisible wall opinion

[cloudsareyum.8120]

For me, it is less immersion breaking to simply just not have invisible walls.  Would it be possible to allow us to fly up high and enjoy the wonders of being above the clouds, and only have invisible walls for the places it's -absolutely necessary- to have them, or the game will literally break/crash?

 

Like, I'm here, immersed, enjoying this flight of exploring tyria or going to my latest personal story, and BAM multiple invisible walls, in the middle of my journey, out of -nowhere-.  This is ridiculous.  Can't we just not have so many invisible walls everywhere? Is it *such* a bad thing that people can get to super pretty places that aren't anticipated up high anyway?   (i mean, being up high above the clouds is definitely part of the draw of flying around for me.)  I love flying on a skyscale, but it is really frustrating just getting from point A to point B for exploration/story mission because of all these invisible walls.  I should be able to fly from point A to point B for personal story without constantly running into invisible walls, please.  I would MUCH rather just have some graphical kitten, like some holes in the mountain or something than being unimmersed every 3 seconds just coz I want to fly my helicopter dragon everywhere.  

 

Thank you.

 

Specifically, I keep running into them in Lornar's pass for example, in the most annoying of places.  Around random mountains I can't hop on to keep high.   At this point, it feels like I keep smacking into walls.

 

Anyone else's thoughts?

Edited May 29, 2021 by cloudsareyum.8120

[Xanadrine.4352]

Its true i hate invisible walls. Back in the day before wow had flyers the walls between zones were physical barriers. Steep mountains you couldnt climb, deep canyons and gorges you couldnt cross, and oceans you would die of fatigue if you tried to swim. When flyers came out you could cross most of those barriers into the next zone, except oceans and space. It makes the world more open and it feels like flying in a real world. But not all games are built that way, GW2 was not built open it was built around instanced zones, pretty impossible to physically link them without redoing the game I would think.

[kharmin.7683]

You can thank players who complained about people completing jumping puzzles with mounts for many of the invisible walls. This group of players, whose game play was in no way affected by other players' use of mounts for JPs, have affected every player's game play with these particular walls.  Way to go.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Devs have done two passes on invisible walls/no flying zones, etc.; I doubt they will do another.

Remember, Core Tyria was created long before any Mounts were released, and such considerations were not necessary at that time. 

[Danikat.8537]

If you mean the ones around the edge of each map, like the invisible walls which stop you flying over the mountains from Queensdale into Kessex Hills and force you to go through the portals on the road instead then those cannot be removed.

 

In some places it's possible to get past them and the game won't crash if you do that, but it also won't let you just fly from one map to another. They don't actually join up at all, each map is built inside it's own cube of virtual space with solid walls around the edge, decorated to look like sea and/or sky. It is sometimes possible to get beyond the normal boundaries and out to the real edge of the map but it doesn't enable you to carry on to the next map and it's not pretty. Here's an example:

https://i.imgur.com/rOw1SvP.jpg

 

In that screenshot the mini map shows I'm between Brisban and Silverwastes, where Fort Vandal is, but I'm actually still in Drytop, just over the north edge of the normally accessible area. I used my skyscale to fly over the mountains which stop you walking from Drytop into Silverwastes but I didn't end up in Silverwastes, instead I ended up in a big flat, unfinished expanse. If you go to the edge of that space all that happens is your character kind of jitters as they push up against the actual edge of the map.

 

It might be possible to remove some of the ones within maps without it breaking anything, but those areas are generally not pretty or even interesting to look at, just lumpy unfinished terrain. For one easily accessible example go to the middle of Caledon Forest and use the springer or skyscale to get on top of the caverns where Ruins of the Unseen is (or just climb up the cliff near the first a in Titan's Staircase, you don't even need a mount for that route). It's kind of fun to run around in a place Anet probably didn't expect anyone to be, but there's nothing to see or do, just lots of green rock and unpredictable collision because the actual ground doesn't always line up with the art work.

[Mesket.5728]

As much as I hate invisible walls I thank Anet for giving us free fly on maps that were clearly not designed to fly. Showing us they care more for fun game mechanics thank playing it safe.

You have to understand that adapting every single map to remove those walls but keep a world where you don't glitch, get stuck or look the world through transparent mountains takes a ridiculous amount of resources and effort. Other titles didn't do that as they introduced flying mounts and you know who still don't let you fly on their new zones until you are completely bored of them. Not many studios take this risk and again, I thank them for it.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I do not like the invisible walls in the Dragonstorm Arena. Most walls, except for the outer boundries of the maps, can be penetrated if you get a little creative. It can be quite challenging and time-consuming to reach a certain spot. Even if it is barren area, actually getting there can feel very quite rewarding, at least for some of us.

 

If we removed them entirely from the game, people would just break all puzzles and other reward-areas and literally ignore what ever game-design exists. On the other hand the thrill of exploration comes with managing restrictions, thinking outside the box and figuring out alternative paths. So removing the boundaries would imo not make the game more exploration-friendly. The invisible walls exist and can be annoying at times, but aside from the one in the Sharkmaw Caverns 😉, most of them have a rational purpose. 

[Aodlop.1907]

3 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This group of players, whose game play was in no way affected by other players' use of mounts for JPs

Technically, if you abused an item to destroy a raid boss in 3 seconds, if wouldn't affect me or other players. Still, that's not how the game should be. To claim your reward, you should complete the challenge in the way that was intended by those who created said challenge.

[Super Hayes.6890]

16 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Technically, if you abused an item to destroy a raid boss in 3 seconds, if wouldn't affect me or other players. Still, that's not how the game should be. To claim your reward, you should complete the challenge in the way that was intended by those who created said challenge.

Well that is entirely up to those who created said challenge. Players opinions on it shouldn't hold any weight unless the unintended alternative to the normal path hinders their gameplay. JP rewards don't need to exist at all if the only reason you do it is for the challenge. It really doesn't matter to me how other players get to the end of a jumping puzzle and it really shouldn't matter to any other player how I get there.

[Aodlop.1907]

1 minute ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

JP rewards don't need to exist at all if the only reason you do it is for the challenge.

This sentence could be changed and used for anything though. Those puzzles were never created with mounts in mind and so, they made some adjustments to make sure that a bit of content (that rewards achievements, remember) isn't trivialized and made irrelevant. I think it's a good thing. 

[Funky.4861]

I wouldn't mind if the invisible walls were translucent instead; we'd see them coming up and know to go around or find another way.

[Gorem.8104]

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

You can thank players who complained about people completing jumping puzzles with mounts for many of the invisible walls. This group of players, whose game play was in no way affected by other players' use of mounts for JPs, have affected every player's game play with these particular walls.  Way to go.

 

Oh, is that why its like that? Sometimes its rather annoying cause even if you just go passed one not even intending to do the puzzle, the game knocks you off your mount. Noticed this in dry top when you go to the top area, the area around the puzzle unmounts you. Had no idea it was due to player complaints. Why would other people care about your basically single player gaming experience? heh. 

 

And that the reason why sitting in a box in wvw became hard since its technically a JP? 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I don't remember some outcry about Jumping Puzzles when Gliding and/or Mounts were released. 

Or, if there was an outcry, it was that there were too large of a 'No Gliding/No Mounts' zones around Jumping Puzzles.  Not the other way 'round. 

 

I'm pretty sure this can be ascertained by reading the forums when those forms of movement were released.

 

So, no, that's not why it is. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[Joote.4081]

HOT's is the worst. One minute free as a bird the next your in a box.  Stuff the horrid jump puzzles in a game that does jumping badly.  Give us our freedom.

[cloudsareyum.8120]

6 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

You can thank players who complained about people completing jumping puzzles with mounts for many of the invisible walls. This group of players, whose game play was in no way affected by other players' use of mounts for JPs, have affected every player's game play with these particular walls.  Way to go.

I don't mind the warning and dismounting in regards to the jps (now that it doesn't resolve in hilarious instadeath)  but a lot of these invisible walls I come across have -nothing- to do with a JP.   I'm pretty sure the one in Lorner's I came across doesn't correspond to any JP that I know of, and I'm a bit of a JP-lover, so if it's near a JP at least I usually can' kind of suss it out.  

[cloudsareyum.8120]

4 hours ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

I do not like the invisible walls in the Dragonstorm Arena. Most walls, except for the outer boundries of the maps, can be penetrated if you get a little creative. It can be quite challenging and time-consuming to reach a certain spot. Even if it is barren area, actually getting there can feel very quite rewarding, at least for some of us.

 

If we removed them entirely from the game, people would just break all puzzles and other reward-areas and literally ignore what ever game-design exists. On the other hand the thrill of exploration comes with managing restrictions, thinking outside the box and figuring out alternative paths. So removing the boundaries would imo not make the game more exploration-friendly. The invisible walls exist and can be annoying at times, but aside from the one in the Sharkmaw Caverns 😉, most of them have a rational purpose. 

 

Honestly, for me, their 'warning' of dismount works perfectly fine for me, for example, like in Caledon Forest.   However, most of the invisible walls I'm smacking into, I don't really know there is a JP involved at all.

[cloudsareyum.8120]

5 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

If you mean the ones around the edge of each map, like the invisible walls which stop you flying over the mountains from Queensdale into Kessex Hills and force you to go through the portals on the road instead then those cannot be removed.

 

In some places it's possible to get past them and the game won't crash if you do that, but it also won't let you just fly from one map to another. They don't actually join up at all, each map is built inside it's own cube of virtual space with solid walls around the edge, decorated to look like sea and/or sky. It is sometimes possible to get beyond the normal boundaries and out to the real edge of the map but it doesn't enable you to carry on to the next map and it's not pretty. Here's an example:

https://i.imgur.com/rOw1SvP.jpg

 

In that screenshot the mini map shows I'm between Brisban and Silverwastes, where Fort Vandal is, but I'm actually still in Drytop, just over the north edge of the normally accessible area. I used my skyscale to fly over the mountains which stop you walking from Drytop into Silverwastes but I didn't end up in Silverwastes, instead I ended up in a big flat, unfinished expanse. If you go to the edge of that space all that happens is your character kind of jitters as they push up against the actual edge of the map.

 

It might be possible to remove some of the ones within maps without it breaking anything, but those areas are generally not pretty or even interesting to look at, just lumpy unfinished terrain. For one easily accessible example go to the middle of Caledon Forest and use the springer or skyscale to get on top of the caverns where Ruins of the Unseen is (or just climb up the cliff near the first a in Titan's Staircase, you don't even need a mount for that route). It's kind of fun to run around in a place Anet probably didn't expect anyone to be, but there's nothing to see or do, just lots of green rock and unpredictable collision because the actual ground doesn't always line up with the art work.

honestly, I think that area you sent the image of is really cool, but I'm talking about the ones in the middle, mostly.  And i would prefer it if they had the edge walls about the mountains a little bit more out, so you could still step on the mountains for height, but you couldn't go past.     Like in Lornar's I was basically stepping off of mountains to keep height, and one in the middle of the map, turned into an -unsteppable- surface out of nowhere, and in another map I kind of just ran right into it (but that was a while ago, I can't remember which map it was off the top of my head that I'd try to either land on a surface middle of the map.   All the mountains along the outside in lorner's are blocked off, which is really weird- i''m used to the edge of the map being blocked off (and aware that that's just part of the map), because that shows up on the map with a visual cue, but not like, the mountains themselves around the edge.  

 

For me, the unfinished terrain is interesting to look at and fun to run around in (for same reasons you cited) , and it's a good sight better than smacking into a wall mid flight.  I do appreciate their warning of 'nearing an area you can't fly by' zone, I think that's fine, but walls cannot be anticipated.  

 

The mountain in lornar's that was walled out of nowhere was Fionnghuala Scratch, it's not a jumping puzzle. This wall was really frustrating, but it was slightly better than the walls that didn't correspond to -any- visual cues whatsoever. 

I truly do love jumping puzzles, and appreciate the warning text implementation versus the -annoying invisible wall- implementation. 

[cloudsareyum.8120]

5 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

As much as I hate invisible walls I thank Anet for giving us free fly on maps that were clearly not designed to fly. Showing us they care more for fun game mechanics thank playing it safe.

You have to understand that adapting every single map to remove those walls but keep a world where you don't glitch, get stuck or look the world through transparent mountains takes a ridiculous amount of resources and effort. Other titles didn't do that as they introduced flying mounts and you know who still don't let you fly on their new zones until you are completely bored of them. Not many studios take this risk and again, I thank them for it.

Honestly, I am okay with looking at the world through transparent mountains and getting stuck occasionally (coz usually one does not get stuck unless it's a specific place definitely not supposed to go, and so on).  I am saying, I would prefer to look at the world through transparent mountains (at least there is the fun factor of whoo I'm somewhere unexpected) than keep smacking into walls midflight. 

And I am grateful they let us fly around everywhere. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by cloudsareyum.8120

[cloudsareyum.8120]

6 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Its true i hate invisible walls. Back in the day before wow had flyers the walls between zones were physical barriers. Steep mountains you couldnt climb, deep canyons and gorges you couldnt cross, and oceans you would die of fatigue if you tried to swim. When flyers came out you could cross most of those barriers into the next zone, except oceans and space. It makes the world more open and it feels like flying in a real world. But not all games are built that way, GW2 was not built open it was built around instanced zones, pretty impossible to physically link them without redoing the game I would think.

Very true, it's possibly my bias because it's the thing I missed about vanilla Wow.  My quarrel is definitely most with the 'mid map' invisible walls tho, not the borders; I tend to assume the borders will be walled up

[cloudsareyum.8120]

1 hour ago, Funky.4861 said:

I wouldn't mind if the invisible walls were translucent instead; we'd see them coming up and know to go around or find another way.

that's why I'm cool with the jumping puzzle warnings as long as it isn't an insta dismount instadeath- there's a -visual cue- so it's easy to avoid. Same story with the see-thru mountains and other type things, it's an interesting 'feature of the game, but it's also pretty easy to avoid because there is a visual cue ^^.   Even the kind of annoying 'invisible wall' of the ocean is cool, because they actually tell you like, 'you've reached a current', and the wall is predictable.

Edited May 29, 2021 by cloudsareyum.8120

[cloudsareyum.8120]

it's cool to hear everybody else's take on it, thanks for replying too ^^

[Rasimir.6239]

There was a developer posting (or possible Gayle reporting what the developers told her) that explained that many of those invisible walls are in fact safeguards to keep players from going out of bounds in a way that holds the danger of getting the character irretrievably stuck. They didn't quite go into details, but the bottom line was that breaking out of map holds the danger of breaking your character data in a way that wasn't repairable, and you'd end up permanently loosing that character (including inventory, hero points, gem store unlocks and anything else related to the character).

 

Core Tyria maps like Lornar's Pass weren't designed with mounts or gliding in mind. I assume there simply are places that are too time consuming (aka expensive) to fix for the benefit it would give to allow access versus making certain that players don't break their characters or anything else if they get to the place. Mountain tops that allow you to glide or fly to otherwise unreachable places are likely among the main offenders.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Rasimir.6239