Half monthly reminder how you ruined all fun in mesmer for me

[Salt Mode.3780]

20 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

No, there isn't much difference between Mirage Staff and Mesmer Staff, you just gain additional effects from Cloak #1, but beyond that gameplay and mechanics are the same and that goes for pretty much most if not all classes.
In other words, Mirage and Chronomancer are built ON TOP OF the Mesmer, they're not "different gameplay" as they should be in the slightest.
You even proved it yourself in your statement with both Power Chrono and Power Mirage lmao.
It's pure powercreep and you don't even see it, or rather ignore it.

Actually that is where you are wrong, core staff is a non interactive gameplay in which you literally just spam 1 where as the whole point of mirage is dodging offensively for the ambush attack.

And also specialization isn't suppose to deviate too far off from it's core because you know its a SPECIALIZATION not a NEW JOB or NEW CLASS. 

Between how mirage and chrono plays they are both similar to CORE but are different from each other.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

4 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Actually that is where you are wrong, core staff is a non interactive gameplay in which you literally just spam 1 where as the whole point of mirage is dodging offensively for the ambush attack.

And also specialization isn't suppose to deviate too far off from it's core because you know its a SPECIALIZATION not a NEW JOB or NEW CLASS. 

Between how mirage and chrono plays they are both similar to CORE but are different from each other.

Gameplay is exactly the same, with more broken stuff. It's like instead of changing your winter jacket, you put more clothes on top of that, that's how e-speces work, which is incorrect with their intention of "giving players new playstyles".
Mesmer staff have only 1 "altered" skill, which for you seems "WoW such gameplayz", but in reality if Mirage decides to not abuse broken #1 ambushes, then the gameplay from core to e-spec doesn't change in the slightest. 
Chronomancer minus Wells is Mesmer^2, spam skills off-cd and do it twice in a row, where is exactly difference here? You really think that adding "repeat" button on class makes it suddenly new gamestyle?
Mirage minus Deceptions is Mesmer 2.0 aka cheap ripoff teef, you also spam skills, but on top of that you get ambushes and better dodge, in other words you get new candies while having your old ones for no price, sounds legit.
The game should be Core = HoT = PoF, but what we have is Core < HoT < PoF, which is unhealthy for game and it's against A-net statements.
The only class that actually provided proper e-speces(not taking into how broken they are) is Necro alone:
Core Shroud provides range pressure and is more tanky.
Reaper Shroud provides high melee pressure, but a cost of sustain to a degree.
Scourge Shroud doesn't exist, instead it become resources for new skills that replaced said shroud.
Rest classes just either got more skills for free or changed things that shouldn't be touched, thus making all of them just core+ at most.
No, I'm not necro main, I simply use eyes.

[Axl.8924]

On 7/8/2021 at 1:35 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Imho I think the game design is the problem here. Elite speccs don't work because just fundamentally are flawed 

 

Elites speccs are basically power put directly ontop of core speccs which are balanced to be ok without them. 

 

They then nerf core Traitlines to balance elite speccs. I think mesmer and elementalist get hit the hardest by this because their mechanics don't change. They just get different things bolted ontop of it. Meaning the mechanic itself is continuously nerfed to put different powers ontop of it. 

 

One dodge works perfectly fine for the side node staff build and the interupt mesmers however we lost several builds over these nerfs. 

 

It was one of my first critisms to the game, elites needed to be more like subclasses to properly devide them from core. 

 

Elites on their current method promote power creep and continuously ruining builds for the sake of balance. 

 

I know everyone gets hyped for new elites. But I question if the better move was to not add another new elite in PoF but simply rework current core builds. 

 

They coulda just added a weapon or 2 to the core. If they wanted to sell it hard and add a new core

traitline or 2 to ensure it will require the expansion. 

 

On 7/8/2021 at 1:35 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

But as mentioned. Tbh this problem is affecting alot more then just mesmers. There isn't realistically a disparity here, every proffession has tons of builds weapon sets and more which are completely unused because other options are just simply better and nerfs have obliterated soo many playstyles for so many proffessions. 

 

Imho every PoF elite needs a full rework. None of them are designed well. They have very obvious holes in them. And they all in some way made the core classes worse. 

 

I think it's time Anet started working abit more on the foundations before layering another level ontop of the structure here, because PoF elites need solving majorly. 

 

 

 

Def a prob for ele.

 

My wish list is if they can find a way to make core mes core ele shine and offer a different playstyle than chrono and mirage.

And for core ele to offer a different playstyle for tempest and weaver. I have a feeling its going to only get worse with new elites with more power creep.

Balancing 2 elites per class is already hard, imagine 3.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

 

Def a prob for ele.

 

My wish list is if they can find a way to make core mes core ele shine and offer a different playstyle than chrono and mirage.

And for core ele to offer a different playstyle for tempest and weaver. I have a feeling its going to only get worse with new elites with more power creep.

Balancing 2 elites per class is already hard, imagine 3.

 

It's hard because they're making it hard. Adding power creep to core designs. Increasing boons to being permanant buffs. Layering multiple things onto single abilities. 

 

Like if they didn't power creep. But just offer completely different playstyles. The system would be fine. The issue is it doesn't sell expansions if they arent stronger so they do this stuff where they bulk elites up so much they then need to do something with then and their so conjoined with Cores design everything takes punishment. 

 

Imho they shoulda done proper subclasses. Where they launched elites less often but elites are given a whole new set of trait lines etc etc. 

 

They coulda then sold how different the playstyle is. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

10 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Gameplay is exactly the same, with more broken stuff. It's like instead of changing your winter jacket, you put more clothes on top of that, that's how e-speces work, which is incorrect with their intention of "giving players new playstyles

 

No they aren't lol they are different styles. You seem to just expect miracles. They're suspose to be on the same wave length their the same class. 

 

Weapon skills are ofcourse the same they don't change lol they're not susposed to either 

 

[Axl.8924]

9 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

It's hard because they're making it hard. Adding power creep to core designs. Increasing boons to being permanant buffs. Layering multiple things onto single abilities. 

 

Like if they didn't power creep. But just offer completely different playstyles. The system would be fine. The issue is it doesn't sell expansions if they arent stronger so they do this stuff where they bulk elites up so much they then need to do something with then and their so conjoined with Cores design everything takes punishment. 

 

Imho they shoulda done proper subclasses. Where they launched elites less often but elites are given a whole new set of trait lines etc etc. 

 

They coulda then sold how different the playstyle is. 

The more classes and styles you have, the more difficulty and deciding how to keep a class effective unique style while also not being underpowered.

 

Games like wow also had issues, because they have currently 36 in total specializations to balance across 12 classes, and GW2 currently has 18 elite specs+9 more core, which is 27. Thats a awful lot.

 

Thats not even taking into account all the needs of each class, like thief mains demanding to be useful in teamplay in WVW, or class hardcounters and people hardcountered by said class.

In everquest, at least it was maybe 8 classes which had 1 specialization to worry about and balance.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Axl.8924
For making sure my point is clear and to make sure the person i'm quoting knows what i am quoting.

[Leonidrex.5649]

are people arguing that mirage/chrono/core are all similar to each other? are we even playing the same class? lol.
when it comes to " bad design " every single espec can be pointed at, and even most if not all core classes if you care enough, doesnt change a fact that honest effort should be put into making them decent.
FB is a horrible design, doesnt stop them from being AMAZING support amazing solo amazing dps in pve, while also being amazing in WvW. 
When there is a will, there IS a way.

[Puck.3697]

10 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

The more classes and styles you have, the more difficulty and deciding how to keep a class effective unique style while also not being underpowered.

 

Games like wow also had issues, because they have currently 36 in total specializations to balance across 12 classes, and GW2 currently has 18 elite specs+9 more core, which is 27. Thats a awful lot.

 

Thats not even taking into account all the needs of each class, like thief mains demanding to be useful in teamplay in WVW, or class hardcounters and people hardcountered by said class.

In everquest, at least it was maybe 8 classes which had 1 specialization to worry about and balance.

 

 

Imho EoD shouldnt of had elites. But proffession reworks instead. I feel if Anet went back to core classes and reworked them they could make the entire proffession feel modernized. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:54 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Gameplay is exactly the same, with more broken stuff. It's like instead of changing your winter jacket, you put more clothes on top of that, that's how e-speces work, which is incorrect with their intention of "giving players new playstyles".
Mesmer staff have only 1 "altered" skill, which for you seems "WoW such gameplayz", but in reality if Mirage decides to not abuse broken #1 ambushes, then the gameplay from core to e-spec doesn't change in the slightest. 
Chronomancer minus Wells is Mesmer^2, spam skills off-cd and do it twice in a row, where is exactly difference here? You really think that adding "repeat" button on class makes it suddenly new gamestyle?
Mirage minus Deceptions is Mesmer 2.0 aka cheap ripoff teef, you also spam skills, but on top of that you get ambushes and better dodge, in other words you get new candies while having your old ones for no price, sounds legit.
The game should be Core = HoT = PoF, but what we have is Core < HoT < PoF, which is unhealthy for game and it's against A-net statements.
The only class that actually provided proper e-speces(not taking into how broken they are) is Necro alone:
Core Shroud provides range pressure and is more tanky.
Reaper Shroud provides high melee pressure, but a cost of sustain to a degree.
Scourge Shroud doesn't exist, instead it become resources for new skills that replaced said shroud.
Rest classes just either got more skills for free or changed things that shouldn't be touched, thus making all of them just core+ at most.
No, I'm not necro main, I simply use eyes.

So what you are saying is I was correct E-Specs are not different jobs or classes rather an extension to core....

The only reason why "mesmer" feels like there is no difference is because of the traits we have and the constant nerfs we had.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Axl.8924]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

So what you are saying is I was correct E-Specs are not different jobs or classes rather an extension to core....

The only reason why "mesmer" feels like there is no difference is because of the traits we have and the constant nerfs we had.

 

The problem is, where as wow the actual specs are different playstyles for each class, but here it is a overall replacement of previous core and elite with the new one. its a fundamentally broken design.

 

Core mes should be as viable in someway as the elites, but offering a different playstyle.

 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

I dont know why WoW is dragged into this considering WoW has no "core" classes and the reason why their specs are different is because of how they worked through talents. This was mostly lost after Wotlk. Only reason why mesmers and again ill repeat is because of its limited trait usage due to how outdated and how unsynchronized the trait lines are.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

18 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

So what you are saying is I was correct E-Specs are not different jobs or classes rather an extension to core....

The only reason why "mesmer" feels like there is no difference is because of the traits we have and the constant nerfs we had.

That's a problem though, they should never be an "extennsion to core", they should "change your playstyle", which most of them don't provide, instead they're just core+.
Doesn't matter how many nerfs xyz will receive in it's lifetime, if it's design is trash from the beginning.
I have seen both Chronomancer and Mirage at it's "peak performance" and it was disgusting and unhealthy for the game, core was threw through window and couldn't even compete with them.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

That's a problem though, they should never be an "extennsion to core", they should "change your playstyle", which most of them don't provide, instead they're just core+.
Doesn't matter how many nerfs xyz will receive in it's lifetime, if it's design is trash from the beginning.
I have seen both Chronomancer and Mirage at it's "peak performance" and it was disgusting and unhealthy for the game, core was threw through window and couldn't even compete with them.

Again the reason why is because trait diversity is very limited to those few which results in the same gameplay. Chrono and Mirage at peak was the same "playstyle" as it is now but lacks a lot more compared to before but back then there were more build diversity then mesmers have now. 

As far as disgusting and unhealthy mesmers were not the only ones guilty of that. One shot DJ DE even on full trailblazers targets, Boonbeast with pet swap, full counter spellbreakers, support FB, sword weavers....etc, all these contribute to the "unhealthy for the game." Just mesmers often get more scrutiny then other classes due to us having clones when in reality mesmers even before the 1 dodge nerf had less dmg mitigation then other classes even till this day which includes invuln, block, dodge, evade, barrier, aegis...etc.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Crackmonster.2790]

Just to bring it back to the wow comparisons of early versions of wow. Each class was very distinct, and importantly it had abilties that you felt were absolutely OP on each class, and they were. But when taking the whole class into account it wasnt necessarily an overpowered class in terms of balance.

That is the exact thing that is missing when overbalancing, classes don't have some aspect where some ability gets a huge amount of power that feels like cheating to have. That really define them - the things you love so much they feel so good and other classes can't do this. Because all things have gotten grounded down over time to some generic attributes where no ability can get too much of anything without being generically OP. Also consider unique mechanics when adding flavor like mages blink, rogues stealth, mesmer clones.

Oh yea so you can do melee or projectiles, strike or condition damage, and oh yea ofc you gotta have some generic cleanses etc. Every class abilties generally just about the same things, as such you overbalance because when they all similar in the first place gottta keep them all in line right. Also because more and more abilities do more than one thing in gw2, so since its layered by many small things its also becoming less distinctive in what they do.

Basically i feel they gotta start turning up unique powers to certain classes is one of the many steps that would be good. There's so many things messed up and forgotten. Take for example underwater skills, on my rev i press and delete the whole area with no effort on my condimesmer i look at the skills and see nearly no damage anywhere etc. Some classes just get a huuuuge amount of healing without any reason for that. Or random nerfs just shoot things down - like the mantra changes with the mesmer heal mantra it now heals uber low over time where before it was extremely strong heal with low cd and used on tough stuff where you would take a lot  of damage. Like there is just no justification for these mega nerfs sometimes they are done just because everything is looked at at from a cooldown length = how much damage or heal should this do = balanced. Then rev battle scars is absolutely nuts like some random trait just out of this world for offense and healing. 

And that's funny to think about coz i might cry to have that nerfed, but upon closer consideration maybe these are the exact things that need to be kept for classes instead of removing anything special. Instead maybe other classes should be looked at to get more such insane powers. One thing is for sure, i freaking love that when playing rev.

But yea those out of the world nerfs that just destroy a playstyle and whipe it from relevancy, that's just no good. And some nerfs like the mirage lack of dodge its exceptionally bad because it just feels bad and frustrating to play with, not because you can't make it work. Just total neglect of the classes identity. Always you now you are wasting that regen if you don't use the dodge right away or if cooldowns align different than youd like etc, feels bad to play with. Also i absolutely loathe when the weapons style i love functions totally different in different modes, have altered cooldowns just nerfed into unviability just because. Just the feeling when you cant allow yourself to get attached to a certain weapon style because the next day it might get oblitered, over time that leads into a legacy of detachment.

Ranger - ranged - pet/trap/slows
Warrior - charges/mediumstuns/melee/good survival cd's - in your face offensive fighter
Engineer - Devices and stuff
Necromancer - Minions / Death/blood magic / Bones / Damage over time
Elementalist - Squishy / Adaptable elemental powers / complex but rewarding, not supporting in dps mode selfish dps so cant stack too many, aoe
Guardian - Very tanky / Supportive
Mesmer - Illusions / Elusive / Charm / debuffs
Thief - Stealth, Single Target // CC - Cooldown based defense(low sustained defenses)

Like those are just some briefly described roles probably others wont agree, but you get the idea then remember to flesh out their identity and powers again. And don't overload their powers from too many things, keep simple abilties with strong power and not overly long cooldowns and not too many abilities that do the same. Think unique mechanics in design.

I'd like to see a lot of weapons get redesigned abilties too, not just the "omg we can't change animations and have to fiddle only with numbers). Similarly you could probably find a lot of utility skills that could use a complete replacement and not just a numbers change. Like the game is getting old, not every idea turned out to be great and not being able to change anything for years and years is not an advantage.

Also, please bring back the way axe was when it targeted thing and didnt need to be in front of you - that really was not a problem and its so annoying now especially coz you often move so much around with axe. I still cry for that inside when i read that in the patch notes inside me death.

Also having some fun again with staff - my god i wanted to play staff for so long. Until they decide to nerf it into unviability again as they always do.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[Salt Mode.3780]

There is no reason to bring WoW into comparison because the class system is completely different to begin with. GW2 as a whole in the beginning removed the holy trinity where you have a dps heal and tank whereas WoW was built around that system. The holy trinity only started to appear when higher PvE content started to release in GW2 most prominent when raid was released and even then it isn't true holy trinity like FFXIV or WoW.

 

You cannot compare a game that had the mindset of having holy trinity vs not. The reason why specialization feels lack luster is because old traits don't really change how specializations work, its just an added bonus. Since we are comparing it to WoW I would say Mage or Warlock (true dps class) because they have ALL the same DPS skills as a core unit but how you use the talents change the gameplay.

 

The real reason for the lack of holy trinity identity is because GW2 is built more as a PvP style game then PvE. When the core game was released their biggest asset was WvW which was the highlight of the game.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Axl.8924]

4 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Just to bring it back to the wow comparisons of early versions of wow. Each class was very distinct, and importantly it had abilties that you felt were absolutely OP on each class, and they were. But when taking the whole class into account it wasnt necessarily an overpowered class in terms of balance.

That is the exact thing that is missing when overbalancing, classes don't have some aspect where some ability gets a huge amount of power that feels like cheating to have. That really define them - the things you love so much they feel so good and other classes can't do this. Because all things have gotten grounded down over time to some generic attributes where no ability can get too much of anything without being generically OP. Also consider unique mechanics when adding flavor like mages blink, rogues stealth, mesmer clones.

Oh yea so you can do melee or projectiles, strike or condition damage, and oh yea ofc you gotta have some generic cleanses etc. Every class abilties generally just about the same things, as such you overbalance because when they all similar in the first place gottta keep them all in line right. Also because more and more abilities do more than one thing in gw2, so since its layered by many small things its also becoming less distinctive in what they do.

Basically i feel they gotta start turning up unique powers to certain classes is one of the many steps that would be good. There's so many things messed up and forgotten. Take for example underwater skills, on my rev i press and delete the whole area with no effort on my condimesmer i look at the skills and see nearly no damage anywhere etc. Some classes just get a huuuuge amount of healing without any reason for that. Or random nerfs just shoot things down - like the mantra changes with the mesmer heal mantra it now heals uber low over time where before it was extremely strong heal with low cd and used on tough stuff where you would take a lot  of damage. Like there is just no justification for these mega nerfs sometimes they are done just because everything is looked at at from a cooldown length = how much damage or heal should this do = balanced. Then rev battle scars is absolutely nuts like some random trait just out of this world for offense and healing. 

And that's funny to think about coz i might cry to have that nerfed, but upon closer consideration maybe these are the exact things that need to be kept for classes instead of removing anything special. Instead maybe other classes should be looked at to get more such insane powers. One thing is for sure, i freaking love that when playing rev.

But yea those out of the world nerfs that just destroy a playstyle and whipe it from relevancy, that's just no good. And some nerfs like the mirage lack of dodge its exceptionally bad because it just feels bad and frustrating to play with, not because you can't make it work. Just total neglect of the classes identity. Always you now you are wasting that regen if you don't use the dodge right away or if cooldowns align different than youd like etc, feels bad to play with. Also i absolutely loathe when the weapons style i love functions totally different in different modes, have altered cooldowns just nerfed into unviability just because. Just the feeling when you cant allow yourself to get attached to a certain weapon style because the next day it might get oblitered, over time that leads into a legacy of detachment.

Ranger - ranged - pet/trap/slows
Warrior - charges/mediumstuns/melee/good survival cd's - in your face offensive fighter
Engineer - Devices and stuff
Necromancer - Minions / Death/blood magic / Bones / Damage over time
Elementalist - Squishy / Adaptable elemental powers / complex but rewarding, not supporting in dps mode selfish dps so cant stack too many, aoe
Guardian - Very tanky / Supportive
Mesmer - Illusions / Elusive / Charm / debuffs
Thief - Stealth, Single Target // CC - Cooldown based defense(low sustained defenses)

Like those are just some briefly described roles probably others wont agree, but you get the idea then remember to flesh out their identity and powers again. And don't overload their powers from too many things, keep simple abilties with strong power and not overly long cooldowns and not too many abilities that do the same. Think unique mechanics in design.

I'd like to see a lot of weapons get redesigned abilties too, not just the "omg we can't change animations and have to fiddle only with numbers). Similarly you could probably find a lot of utility skills that could use a complete replacement and not just a numbers change. Like the game is getting old, not every idea turned out to be great and not being able to change anything for years and years is not an advantage.

Also, please bring back the way axe was when it targeted thing and didnt need to be in front of you - that really was not a problem and its so annoying now especially coz you often move so much around with axe. I still cry for that inside when i read that in the patch notes inside me death.

Also having some fun again with staff - my god i wanted to play staff for so long. Until they decide to nerf it into unviability again as they always do.

They would have to overhaul a lot.

 

Fixing for instance core ele identity would be nice, and making sure that tempest and weaver aren't a direct upgrade.

I'm a big fan of ele and look forward to seeing some changes.

Also when i think of adaptable, i think of previous ele levels of mobility and barriers to get out of bad situations to escape.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Salt Mode.3780]

Aside from balancing and changing some of the older traits I think the way things are now are fine. Stop trying to compare another game's identity/concept and forcing it into gw2 when it is completely different. No one said specs are suppose to be an entire new class that changes the game play entirely.

 

There is a difference between asking for balance/update vs pushing your own narrative on what the game should be based on personal preference. To say it more bluntly this isn't your game so stop trying to push YOUR own narrative and vision on the game.

There are many games that adopted the Trinity concept and the one thing the prevents gw2 from actually doing so is that your skills are based off of weapon set/skills.

 

 

[Crackmonster.2790]

I know that you get some easy points by going against comparisons to other game especially the arch nemesis wow - but design princes are transcendent. Bland is bland, distinct is distinct. There is a lot to learn from many many other games, if you know where to look.

Since you want to get personal about narratives, i never appreciated this persons who don't understand what they read and can't discuss design principles and yet still want to try and shoot you down with no points other than they just dont like it and for the posters to "leave the game that's not for them" - that never contributes anything and one day when the game changes you too will be told to "be silent if you don't like it", which is ironic on so many levels if you think about what youre saying here.

Also, youre the one talking about the trinity system - as soon as you read the word wow you probably put all sorts of ideas in your own head and starting forming ideas against it which were irrelevant to the actual points.

It was all about the design principle of how it's possible to give the feeling that every class gets to feel like they have some broken abilties, without it breaking the game as contrasted against the bland situation where every ability does the same boiled down to some dps essentially.  Unique and stark powers lend class identity, it's something that's become increasingly clear to me after playing many games over the years. Since GW2 seems to be overnerfing cool things too much, it is good for them to remember their more original distinctions, to flesh out the more original design directions. Not to turn the game into wow or whatever nonsense you are assuming. It is a real achievement if a game, no matter what class you are playing, you feel you can do something that feels too good to be true, without the overall balance being broken.

I hope that you can see beyond the name wow and actually read and consider the actual points being made next time, else there is just no point talking to you as you are not listening. Additionally if you refuse to learn from some of the things the top 5-10 mmo's of all times did right - then you arent doing yourselves any favors as an MMO developer.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[XenesisII.1540]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:33 PM, Crackmonster.2790 said:

This is the class i always wanted to play - yet you have continually butchered it. A handful of features ruin the class for me.

Butchered Mirage dodges in pvp type content. Now 1 dodge, also kitten return on all dodge things as result. Just butchered what it was all about and made it pathetic. I dont even care if you made it weaker than now in another way this way just ruined the class feel.
Staff is a super bad weapon ! i want to make a staff mesmer so bad i find it so cool thematically but sadly you have just left it to die a slow death and never cared for it.
Chrono is balanced around continuum split and chronoplasma -  which has a super bad gameflow extremely clunky, is uberscaled to make it a nonchoice, is prone to failures out of your control and just entirely changes the way you play - and with mirage butchered in pvp and chrono the only real pve this trait is a forced and super kitten playstyle if you ask me and ruins the class entirely for me in particular this forced playstyle of superclunky bad 200million skill setups and hope random things dont mess it up.

I have made so many alternative and non meta builds on mesmer over time but even things that arent anything special but you can make them work, youve found a way to make them totally unattractive. As a result emotionally i become sad and detached every time i want to play gw2 because i am drawn to this class but i know i cannot enjoy it when all the things i love are butchered and neglected, and super ultra annoying playstyles with so many downsides are forced upon the player. When you really want to do something but is rejected from being able to by the actual reality, then you lose your connection to life and you lose your interest. I have tried to play nearly all the other classes to move on from mesmer. Through that i have discovered similar problems. All things fun for all classes have but nerfed into te ground - in fact GW2 suffers from overnerfing and things being way too similar in just putting out numbers and lacking stone paper scissors tactical feel.

Zoom into the greater picture - why is it finaly fantasy is so popular and GW2 is not? Thats a question the devs should really explore because the people they think this game is made for the casual  happy fun player is not staying here. You must let the fun flow again, you gotta stop butchering everything. What makes classic wow feel so great? Diversity in skillsets is one of them, on every class you feel like you have great powers. That's an amazing design goal. In gw2 its like if you are a uber tryharder and you are ultra good you can make stuff happens that people don't really have a clue what happened to them. That is just not fun, and its just not great class design in the overall picture.

Going back to GW2 there are things i would want for sure, things that would make me really interested and satisfied. One of them is i want every kitten weapon to work for every kitten class, like i truly hate that the cool weapons i want to use on the few classes that can use them they are just not worth using because they are just neglected for years and left  to rot in a dark cellar that will never be found in a thousand years - and only a handful of things work. And in fact i can't even find anything that really suits me here because all the weapon and styles i dream of on the classes that can use them are just so so bad balanced.

I dont care what you devs think, its not that hard to make weapons perform within 10-15% below the most powerful weapons. It just isn't that hard to solve, but the fact is you never have tried to solve in ever coz most weapons have been left to rot for years. There is just no effort there. Guildwars has an amazing skill system, and tons of variety but its just not putting it to good use. Start making all weapons viable without any buts or giving up trying is a good place to start - then bringing back more individual power and more fun instead of overnerfing is another to go from there.

And everytime i come back to gw2 this frustration of the neglect and the non-ability to connect to the things i really want to do rising within me till i cant contain it and leave again. Despite the enormous potential of GW2.

 

Just want to say I whole heartedly agree. It's one of my favorite classes ever. 😕

 

I've tried different builds, different classes, even when I play other games I look for classes that are similar, but I always end up missing the enjoyable years I had on mesmer. It's just been butchered too much, parts sold off to others, and every time I look at some niche playstyle to maybe spark interest again I get beaten down with the flaws of the class. It's quite obvious the devs don't even know what to do with the identity of the class at this point. 🙄

 

One dodge nerf was one of the dumbest nerfs I have ever seen in a game done to a class, especially for a game designed around dodging as main defense for players, and teaching you to use two dodges for nine years, offers you a specialization that relies more on that mechanic than every other one, only to force you to only use one after 3 years of it's existence. 🙄

 

I can't wait for them to try and sell the newest spec to mesmer players, only to turn around and once again nerf that to the ground because everyone not a mesmer including devs hates it. Oh and necro/scourge was my other main, so yay on double nerfing whammies over the years. 🙄

 

[Hot Boy.7138]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:33 PM, Crackmonster.2790 said:

This is the class i always wanted to play - yet you have continually butchered it. A handful of features ruin the class for me.

Butchered Mirage dodges in pvp type content. Now 1 dodge, also kitten return on all dodge things as result. Just butchered what it was all about and made it pathetic. I dont even care if you made it weaker than now in another way this way just ruined the class feel.
Staff is a super bad weapon ! i want to make a staff mesmer so bad i find it so cool thematically but sadly you have just left it to die a slow death and never cared for it.
Chrono is balanced around continuum split and chronoplasma -  which has a super bad gameflow extremely clunky, is uberscaled to make it a nonchoice, is prone to failures out of your control and just entirely changes the way you play - and with mirage butchered in pvp and chrono the only real pve this trait is a forced and super kitten playstyle if you ask me and ruins the class entirely for me in particular this forced playstyle of superclunky bad 200million skill setups and hope random things dont mess it up.

I have made so many alternative and non meta builds on mesmer over time but even things that arent anything special but you can make them work, youve found a way to make them totally unattractive. As a result emotionally i become sad and detached every time i want to play gw2 because i am drawn to this class but i know i cannot enjoy it when all the things i love are butchered and neglected, and super ultra annoying playstyles with so many downsides are forced upon the player. When you really want to do something but is rejected from being able to by the actual reality, then you lose your connection to life and you lose your interest. I have tried to play nearly all the other classes to move on from mesmer. Through that i have discovered similar problems. All things fun for all classes have but nerfed into te ground - in fact GW2 suffers from overnerfing and things being way too similar in just putting out numbers and lacking stone paper scissors tactical feel.

Zoom into the greater picture - why is it finaly fantasy is so popular and GW2 is not? Thats a question the devs should really explore because the people they think this game is made for the casual  happy fun player is not staying here. You must let the fun flow again, you gotta stop butchering everything. What makes classic wow feel so great? Diversity in skillsets is one of them, on every class you feel like you have great powers. That's an amazing design goal. In gw2 its like if you are a uber tryharder and you are ultra good you can make stuff happens that people don't really have a clue what happened to them. That is just not fun, and its just not great class design in the overall picture.

Going back to GW2 there are things i would want for sure, things that would make me really interested and satisfied. One of them is i want every kitten weapon to work for every kitten class, like i truly hate that the cool weapons i want to use on the few classes that can use them they are just not worth using because they are just neglected for years and left  to rot in a dark cellar that will never be found in a thousand years - and only a handful of things work. And in fact i can't even find anything that really suits me here because all the weapon and styles i dream of on the classes that can use them are just so so bad balanced.

I dont care what you devs think, its not that hard to make weapons perform within 10-15% below the most powerful weapons. It just isn't that hard to solve, but the fact is you never have tried to solve in ever coz most weapons have been left to rot for years. There is just no effort there. Guildwars has an amazing skill system, and tons of variety but its just not putting it to good use. Start making all weapons viable without any buts or giving up trying is a good place to start - then bringing back more individual power and more fun instead of overnerfing is another to go from there.

And everytime i come back to gw2 this frustration of the neglect and the non-ability to connect to the things i really want to do rising within me till i cant contain it and leave again. Despite the enormous potential of GW2.

Same here. I stopped having fun after the february 2020 patch. I was looking forward to the patch but I didn't have any fun after. My sword build's damage was gutted and was left with half as many dodges.  I just started to lose interest more and more. and now, it's just hard to enjoy the game at all with my favorite class not being fun.  I bately log on now and i dont even leave the city when i do now.

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Just want to say I whole heartedly agree. It's one of my favorite classes ever. 😕

 

I've tried different builds, different classes, even when I play other games I look for classes that are similar, but I always end up missing the enjoyable years I had on mesmer. It's just been butchered too much, parts sold off to others, and every time I look at some niche playstyle to maybe spark interest again I get beaten down with the flaws of the class. It's quite obvious the devs don't even know what to do with the identity of the class at this point. 🙄

 

One dodge nerf was one of the dumbest nerfs I have ever seen in a game done to a class, especially for a game designed around dodging as main defense for players, and teaching you to use two dodges for nine years, offers you a specialization that relies more on that mechanic than every other one, only to force you to only use one after 3 years of it's existence. 🙄

 

I can't wait for them to try and sell the newest spec to mesmer players, only to turn around and once again nerf that to the ground because everyone not a mesmer including devs hates it. Oh and necro/scourge was my other main, so yay on double nerfing whammies over the years. 🙄

 

 

i actuall y quite liked chrono when i was using support before it got nerfed.

 

Right now i-m trying to understand if i-m supposed to shatter without any illusions on 2 to maximize dps on chrono.

[Jables.4659]

On 7/5/2021 at 3:55 PM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Mirage is in a great spot right now in PvP. Staff is a great option for PvE and PvP. Your problems seem to be a l2p issue and less so a game issue. 

Mirage has one setup that kind of works in pvp.  Condition Mirage sort of functions because it was a genuinely broken design from the beginning.  I am in awe that the devs created such a brain-dead abomination and then nerfed everything around it instead of dealing with the shining purple elephant in the room.  That aside, losing our second dodge heavily conflicts with the design of GW2 combat.  In general, dodging should be your first defensive action.  You use it first because if you don't, you are wasting a resource.  Once that first dodge is used, you are regaining endurance and still have a second dodge for emergencies.  One-dodge-mirage creates a paradox.  If you save your single dodge for an emergency moment, you are wasting your resource, but if you don't save it, you lose your emergency defense.  There is no good choice and it flies in the face of the amazing combat design this game was built upon.  For the life of me I have no idea why the devs refused to touch Infinite Horizon and Mirage Cloak.  It would've taken work, but removing those mechanics from the game could've prevented the chain of band-aid nerfs on top of band-aid nerfs that has left Mesmer a broken shell of its former self. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

I personally dont agree in changing how mirage cloak worked, however changing how IH worked or giving it a ICD wouldve done better then the 1 dodge nerf. 

If mirage cloak was removed it would be no different then core mesmer, realistically think about it. 

They have nerfed mirage cloak and its no longer then a dodge animation, only reason why people still think it lasts longer is because of the visuals.

[Sytriel.9413]

I only read the 1st page as it was already hilarious enough. 

 

Right Mesmer is so weak that couple year old build can still one shot people in WvW.
juice - Core Shatter Mesmer is BACK?! | Guild Wars 2 WvW Roaming - YouTube

Edit: 
Yes. I am a Mesmer main. I play Support Chrono in WvW, Condi Mirage and Core Mesmer similar to the YT video build with minimal differences. I don't see any problems with it honestly. 

 

Throwing around the phrase "because of x and y, you're opinion is invalidated". Like dude seriously? Quick to disregard other peoples opinions while trying to push you're own as the "right" way. If you think it's broken, then that's your opinion. Why is it necessary to -what it seems like, beg for everyone to agree with your view.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Sytriel.9413
added info

[Eloid.4569]

2 hours ago, Sytriel.9413 said:

I only read the 1st page as it was already hilarious enough. 

 

Right Mesmer is so weak that couple year old build can still one shot people in WvW.
juice - Core Shatter Mesmer is BACK?! | Guild Wars 2 WvW Roaming - YouTube

Edit: 
Yes. I am a Mesmer main. I play Support Chrono in WvW, Condi Mirage and Core Mesmer similar to the YT video build with minimal differences. I don't see any problems with it honestly. 

 

Throwing around the phrase "because of x and y, you're opinion is invalidated". Like dude seriously? Quick to disregard other peoples opinions while trying to push you're own as the "right" way. If you think it's broken, then that's your opinion. Why is it necessary to -what it seems like, beg for everyone to agree with your view.

 

 

Yes of course, kill random people in wvsw, try to do that in SPvP or with people who know what they are doing.

And you say "one shot", sorry I only see a mester who uses ALL his CDs to try to kill someone.