Does Marksmanship has the worst minor traits in the game?

[Panncakez.1290]

I've not delved deep into every class, but kitten, Marksmanship minor traits are vitually non-existant for 98% of the time/fights. Even with "Remorseless" trait - it still gimmicky, considering it only affects one next hit, and ranger's arsenal is mostly comprised of multi-hit abilities, the only "one-hard-hit" abilities that come to mind are Maul and Worldly Impact.

 

Not to mention that Opening Strike takes anywhere from 3 to 10 seconds to re-activate once you leave combat, making it even more useless.

 

Am I missing something?

[The Boz.2038]

Attack of Opportunity and Opening Strike both need to be reworked into the same thing, with a flat +damage effect, no +% crap.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Attack of Opportunity and Opening Strike both need to be reworked into the same thing, with a flat +damage effect, no +% crap.

Yeah, make it flat 20 dmg.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Attack of Opportunity and Opening Strike both need to be reworked into the same thing, with a flat +damage effect, no +% crap.

Hell no, the game certainly does not need more proc nonsense like engie's EE.

 

Opening Strike + Remorseless is what makes Marksmanship good. It's the other traits that could need some help, at least from a PvP/WvW point of view. But don't touch what's fine as it is.

[The Boz.2038]

You..

You realize that two procs merged is fewer procs total, not "more proc nonsense", right?

[Zyreva.1078]

27 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

You..

You realize that two procs merged is fewer procs total, not "more proc nonsense", right?

You realize dmg modifiers and dmg procs are not the same?

[The Boz.2038]

This answers my question, thank you.

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Hell no, the game certainly does not need more proc nonsense like engie's EE.

 

Opening Strike + Remorseless is what makes Marksmanship good. It's the other traits that could need some help, at least from a PvP/WvW point of view. But don't touch what's fine as it is.

 

Add ways to refresh opening strike to the other GM traits without any additional benefits, keep Remorseless as is.

 

Remorseless used to refresh OP on stealth and kill way back, they could add back the stealth refresh into the longbow trait as it has stealth access and on kill into Predator's Onslaught as it is primarily a PvE trait. Could probably be more creative with the latter, but it'd still be a decent QoL change. Wouldn't change the dynamic between the traits as Remorseless would still be the big burst option with its additional OP modifier.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Zyreva.1078]

29 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Add ways to refresh opening strike to the other GM traits without any additional benefits, keep Remorseless as is.

 

Remorseless used to refresh OP on stealth and kill way back, they could add back the stealth refresh into the longbow trait as it has stealth access and on kill into Predator's Onslaught as it is primarily a PvE trait. Could probably be more creative with the latter, but it'd still be a decent QoL change. Wouldn't change the dynamic between the traits as Remorseless would still be the big burst option with its additional OP modifier.

 

Yes, something along those lines would make sense.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 7/7/2021 at 9:32 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

Attack of Opportunity and Opening Strike both need to be reworked into the same thing, with a flat +damage effect, no +% crap.

 

You realize there's no such thing as flat damage, right?

 

If what you're saying is intended to keep power/damage levels the same it will have no affect and will just make MMS inherently counter Aegis and enable free procs which is kinda dumb.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Tbh the design itself is ok.

But they are not well enough integrated and lack interactions.

 

[The Boz.2038]

No such thing as flat damage?
What?

Is this another one of those "I convinced myself you meant something opposite of what you clearly meant, and now I will prove you wrong"?

[DeceiverX.8361]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

No such thing as flat damage?
What?

Is this another one of those "I convinced myself you meant something opposite of what you clearly meant, and now I will prove you wrong"?

 

Maybe you worded things VERY unclearly and meant you want AoO to be calculated separately as an additional attack with its own coefficient, in which case as I said, I just downright disagree with you by making AoO a second strike at some arbitrary coefficient, which needs to be balanced around the various weapons and contexts in how AoO is used.  See: Aegis comment.  See below:

 

Plus I think it's good design for AoO to be a modifier - I think modifiers are better design than extra non-animated hits, since they can be built around and countered in simpler ways and are actually visible to enemies to negate.  What proposed coefficient do you think should it be, then?  Because there's quite a range between say, +50% damage on the first hit RF which so many people open with, versus even a LBAA or Maul which is a much better way to optimize for damage or build around it.  Really, there's no need to make PBS+RF deal any more damage than it already does, and I think the HB+Maul/CA+Maul melee interrupt concept is more fair as well.

 

If you meant that there's base damage or something which is how I interpreted "flat" damage to mean, read this, as such a thing doesn't exist:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I use opening strike a lot with Winter's Bite, as can get nice damage off it on refreshes with Remorseless.  

 

The minors do make no sense though since you can't take partial trait lines, so it's just spreading the same thing out that could be condensed into a single minor.  

 

Also, I think 'flat damage' would be a coefficient of 1? I'm not sure how that applies to attack of opportunity though as it just increases outgoing damage after its calculated.  Where is there any coefficient here? 

 

 

[dank.3680]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The minors do make no sense though since you can't take partial trait lines, 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know about anyone else but I totally miss the old trait system when you could do that. 

[Teratus.2859]

Unless you go with Remorseless then yeah they kinda are pretty mundane.

The problem is that all 3 of them focus on the same mechanic, opening strike.. your first attack in combat.
So they have no benefit to you at all after that, unless you take remorseless allowing you to refresh them on command with fury appliance.

That alone screws over your Grandmaster choice.. do you take remorseless to take advantage of regular opening strikes?
Or do you take one of the other Grandmasters instead and pretty much sacrifice the entire usefulness of all 3 minor traits.

It's a really bad trait setup if you ask me, specially when one of the other Grandmasters (Predators Onslaught) is a flat 15% damage increase against disabled AND! movement impared foes, which is a great trait.

And the other (Lead the Wind) in addition to skill recharge allows the Longbow to be capable of quintupling it's damage output against groups of enemies, providing the player is practiced enough to pull it off in combat.
Imo another great trait for those who who love the Archer playstyle and want to get the most out of it.

If you ask me Opening Strikes and Precise Strikes should be combined into one minor trait.
Alpha Focus should be changed to apply cripple on crits instead of opening strikes, either make it chance based or give it an internal cooldown for balance.

Leaves us room for a new minor in this line, but i've got nothing to suggest to fill that spot at the time of writing.
But make it something that is useful to the entire trait line, not just players who take one specific Grandmaster trait.

[Kodama.6453]

6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

No such thing as flat damage?
What?

Is this another one of those "I convinced myself you meant something opposite of what you clearly meant, and now I will prove you wrong"?

There is no flat power damage, since all power damage directly scales with your power through a coefficient.

Unlike conditions, which have a base damage per stack and then additionally a scaling coefficient.

 

If you had 0 power for some reason, then all power skills would also deal 0 damage.

[Lazze.9870]

14 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Leaves us room for a new minor in this line, but i've got nothing to suggest to fill that spot at the time of writing.

The obvious, but boring option is a damage modifier against foes with vulnerabilty which is what all other similar trait lines have or have had in the past.

[Teratus.2859]

3 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

The obvious, but boring option is a damage modifier against foes with vulnerabilty which is what all other similar trait lines have or have had in the past.

Maybe..
Perhaps Rangers gaining might when striking a target with Vun from range would be a good one, but that might be really OP with RapidFire Barrage combos to insta max might in seconds.

It would be one way to solve the Range issue though.
Plenty of people complain about LB Rangers not stacking in some content and missing out on team buffs.
They wouldn't have to stack if they could manage their own might at range.

Would be great for PvE but it would probably cause serious issues in competitive lol

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Plenty of people complain about LB Rangers not stacking in some content and missing out on team buffs.
They wouldn't have to stack if they could manage their own might at range.

 

I'm not particularly updated on PvE damage meta builds, but last time I checked LB is pretty close to the GS option for power soulbeast despite suffering from autoattacking with LB up close. I don't think some extra personal might will change much. It also means you have to drop skirmishing.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Obtena.7952]

So having a 100% crit chance on any attack you want to open with and increasing your DPS 10% for 5 seconds are the WORST effects you could ever have in the game? I guess someone has some VERY limited game experience. They aren't ideal for long duration fights, that's for sure ... that is an indication of how Anet directs us to certain choices with rewarding effects by engaging targets in this game. 

 

Still, I would like to see some kind of 'reset' you can control on Opening Strike, similar to Engi Explosive Entrance trait. I can imagine it reset on:

 

1. Pet Swap

2. Weapon Swap

3. Stealth (though that's admittedly backing yourself into a corner with Lbow, Trapper Runes, etc ..)

4. Heal

5. Elite Skill use

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lazze.9870]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So having a 100% crit chance on any attack you want to open with and increasing your DPS 10% for 5 seconds are the WORST effects you could ever have in the game? I guess someone has some VERY limited game experience. 

 

The question should be if the other two GM traits should get some way to refresh OP with no additional effect, to avoid having three dead minors for the majority of a prolonged fight because you're not running Remorseless. Or does the 100 % crit chance on your first hit warrant the downside? The increased dps isn't any different from the opening effects from Explosives or Devestation, both of which are indepedent from your GM choice to re-apply the effect and both having minors that scales better if the target already has vuln on them.

 

The effect itself is strongest in settings where you are more likely to run Remorseless, which already offsets the downside. I personally don't think giving Predator's Onslaught or Lead the Wind the ability to refresh OP at a reasonable rate (aka considerably lower than Remorseless) would break any balance, it'd only make those options more tempting in settings they see no or very little use.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Teratus.2859]

4 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

The question should be if the other two GM traits should get some way to refresh OP with no additional effect, to avoid having three dead minors for the majority of a prolonged fight because you're not running Remorseless. Or does the 100 % crit chance on your first hit warrant the downside? The increased dps isn't any different from the opening effects from Explosives or Devestation, both of which are indepedent on your GM choice and both having minors that scales better if the target already has vuln on them.

 

The effect itself is strongest in settings where you are more likely to run Remorseless, which already offsets the downside. I personally don't think giving Predator's Onslaught or Lead the Wind the ability to refresh OP at a reasonable rate (aka considerably lower than Remorseless) would break any balance, it'd only make those options more tempting in settings they see no or very little use.

Lead the Wind - Gain an Opening Strike on your next attack when you hit 5 targets with a Longbow skill.
(only 1 opening strike gained per Rapid Fire and Barrage cast)

Predators Onslaught - Gain an Opening Strike on your next attack when you kill an enemy.

Plays to the strengths of both traits.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Lead the Wind - Gain an Opening Strike on your next attack when you hit 5 targets with a Longbow skill.
(only 1 opening strike gained per Rapid Fire and Barrage cast)

Predators Onslaught - Gain an Opening Strike on your next attack when you kill an enemy.

Plays to the strengths of both traits.

 

I like gain OP on stealth for Lead the Wind better. Plays into one of the mechanics longbow offers, but still allows it to refresh without it.

 

Predator's Onslaught I agree with, on kill is a decent QoL change. Both on stealth and on kill were what Remorseless previously did, makes sense to roll those into the other two GMs in my opinion.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Teratus.2859]

11 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

I like gain OP on stealth for Lead the Wind better. Plays into one of the mechanics longbow offers, but still allows it to refresh without it.

 

Predator's Onslaught I agree with, on kill is a decent QoL change. Both on stealth and on kill were what Remorseless previously did, makes sense to roll those into the other two GMs in my opinion.

On Stealth would work, mechanically makes sense as well since it's a "suprise attack"

Although I think it would be too easily available if it were given on that, specially with the reduced CD on Hunters shot.
You would be getting a free Opening Strike every 9 seconds if it popped on Stealth.
Plus there would be 3rd party stealth effects to consider as well, be they from other players or your Pet.
On Stealth I fear would cause too much conflict with Remorseless.

I think i'd prefer it to refresh on hitting 5 targets with Lead the Wind because it rewards playing optimally to the strengths of this particular trait.
The better you play, the more opening strikes you can take advantage of, but it's circumstantial just like the piercing arrows aspect of the trait is as well.

A big part of the fun I get out of playing an Archer type in gw2 is making this trait work for me.
Pick my targets carefully, line them up for better damage.
Should I attack the big bad creature in front of me or target a distant enemy and keep moving with it so I can keep the big bad enemy in my line of fire?
Stuff like that is what makes Lead the Wind a really fun trait to play with 🙂