ANet Please! How Others See GW2 PvP!

[RedAvenged.5217]

Just make players have no down state but make ranger pet and necro minions have down state- problem solved

[frareanselm.1925]

On 7/23/2021 at 7:45 PM, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

No.

Downed state is a fundamental aspect of gw2 combat, around which several skills are made. Learn to play with it or go play WoW Arena.

Id agree with you, if it wasnt because the downed state is unfair and unbalanced for most classes except ranger and necro.

I have been hitting a downed ranger with a condi warrior, and the pet healing was more powerful than the damage I was doing. This is crazy and unacceptable. Other classes in the other hand, like ele, thief, mesmer and engy can only delay the inavoidable with teleports or pulls. And for reve for example the downed state is absolutely useless.

[Crab Fear.1624]

No downstate trial time

[Leonidrex.5649]

57 minutes ago, Highlie.7641 said:

I've never heard a good argument for keeping the downstate. meanwhile it causes three glaring issues.

 

-Balance.

-conquest.

-Matchmaker.

 

i mean these should be obvious without an explanation about how the downstate is screwing them  up.

its there to slow down the game and give supports some role to fulfill, as of right now the only thing supports can do is
1 heal ( be it healing or barrier )
2 cleanse
3 spam cc
4 revive
As the game is slow as kitten the least they could do is reduce revive speed from all sources by ~20% and see how it goes.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Downstate doesn't need to be removed, but it does need to be nerfed, possibly quite heavily. Right now certain downstate/res options are flat out gamebreaking, to the point where if you stack a team with them you can actually win matches just because nobody can deal with your downs faster than you can bring them back up.  The 3v3 meta right now really showcases the problem. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Crab Fear.1624]

52 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Downstate doesn't need to be removed, but it does need to be nerfed, possibly quite heavily. Right now certain downstate/res options are flat out gamebreaking, to the point where if you stack a team with them you can actually win matches just because nobody can deal with your downs faster than you can bring them back up.  The 3v3 meta right now really showcases the problem. 

 

 

 

 

Downstate should be equal, the same health and skillbar regardless of class.

 

As it is now, it is unfair, and also a crutch.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

3 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

Id agree with you, if it wasnt because the downed state is unfair and unbalanced for most classes except ranger and necro.

I have been hitting a downed ranger with a condi warrior, and the pet healing was more powerful than the damage I was doing. This is crazy and unacceptable. Other classes in the other hand, like ele, thief, mesmer and engy can only delay the inavoidable with teleports or pulls. And for reve for example the downed state is absolutely useless.

 

Agreed.

The downed state skills, like any other skills, need balancing. 

But removing downed state as a mechanic entirely just because some of the skills related to it are unbalanced is akin to removing an entire profession from the game because some of its builds are overpowered.

[Crab Fear.1624]

5 minutes ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

 

Agreed.

The downed state skills, like any other skills, need balancing. 

But removing downed state as a mechanic entirely just because some of the skills related to it are unbalanced is akin to removing an entire profession from the game because some of its builds are overpowered.

quite easy to balance.

just give everyone the thief downstate

 

or better

 

the rev downstate

 

 

also health is the same for all when down, 11k

Edited July 25, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

2 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

quite easy to balance.

just give everyone the thief downstate

 

or better

 

the rev downstate

 

 

also health is the same for all when down, 11k

 

My fave downstate is the mesmer one

not too weak, not too strong, thematically fitting, and with useful abilities.

 

Same hp for all could be a good idea, though I'd settle for a bit higher so they don't get oneshot from a simple cleave, smth like 18-20k. Alternatively, make it so reviving heals a flat amount instead of a %, so being tanky means you have a tankier downed state, but is harder to revive. Getting interrupted while reviving could also apply a small cooldown to being able to revive, rally could be adjusted so it's a 1-to-1 thing or just a big heal to downed allies instead of a full recover, etc etc. Plenty of interesting ways to adjust downed state and make it more fair.

[Onlyflameone.2136]

Downstate is one of the coolest things! When you are down all enemies are trying desperately to kill while your teammates doing best to save you and revive you! Feeling is so satisfying! When I first felt the downstate was so cool, cuz my teammates sacrificing all they have to save me, it is so social and friendly feeling.. It does help for the friendly experience and less toxic people.

 

The system is unique and people behind this mechanic are geniuses!

Edited July 25, 2021 by Onlyflameone.2136

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

Spoiler

hello solo player here im probably one of the best on the NA server always have been since core with that out of the way,

i dont think downstate is the reason pvp is dead. balance & build diversity is the main reason ever since the drop of the first xpac they never really got it right which sucks because they got it kitten near perfect by the end of core right before the first xpac.... downstate is however annoying heck just got done with a game today, team not being helpful as perusual which im used to but i handle myself just fine and often carry but in this situation i down this thief 3 times and this heal bot guard good at his job basically reses him 3 times with the assistance of a scourge poking me eventually i get worn out and have to withdraw i mean it was a 1v3 anyway but if there was a "no downstate" the thief would have just been dead and i would have moved on to the next target i would have handled that battle just fine so yeah i understand, this happens sooooo much against me and never for me partly because i rarely die but when i do teammates often don't attempt a res or die trying because im drawing agro from most of the enemy team so i would actually do better and win much easier without a downstate but i still dont think that is the issue again the issue is balance but that wont change because of the game now being partially pay to win with them having to push xpacs im certain end of dragon specs will be overpowered and they will want them to stay that way for a while meaning less build diversity and so on. 

 

6 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

So is underwater combat, but not a single tear would be shed at its removal. 

Theyre both gimmicks from days gone by when they desperately wanted "unique" promo talking points to try to stand out with.

 

Nobody likes them.

they did remove it from pvp and i did shed tears (not really but was annoyed) yeah i guess you could say it was a gimmick but with that logic most things are... it added variance to the flow of the match and gave other build options that you could use or have to worry about.

 

20 minutes ago, Onlyflameone.2136 said:

Downstate is one of the coolest things! When you are down all enemies are trying desperately to kill while your teammates doing best to save you and revive you! Feeling is so satisfying! When I first felt the downstate was so cool, cuz my teammates sacrificing all they have to save me, it is so social and friendly feeling.. It does help for the friendly experience and less toxic people.

 

The system is unique and people behind this mechanic are geniuses!

yeah when i was new (never played gw1) i thought downstate was cool as well

[Zagerus.8675]

I think controlling a downstate is actually one of the more hype moments you can have in PvP. It adds another functional layer for everyone involved in the engagement. I get the appeal of wanting straight kills but I think downstate fits better and plays better even if it's hard for someone who is spectating to understand what swung the downstate in either team's favor. The players usually know and player experience > anything else imo.

[Quadox.7834]

Downstate was a mechanic added to profile and market this game as a more casual mmo where players don't get punished for their mistakes. "You can keep fightning when you die!". It serves the purpose of the blue shell in mario kart, it levels out the playing field. And that's why it sucks.

[Dawdler.8521]

23 hours ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

I think controlling a downstate is actually one of the more hype moments you can have in PvP.

Which IMO has been shown over and over in WvW during the downed state events - without it GW2 becomes a hollow empty shell of itself. Downed state add tactical depth in smallscale combat and an urgence to assist others as a team. There is nothing quite as satisfying as making a comeback because the enemy may have brought the builds to kill, but not the builds to stomp.

 

It has flaws, many of which Anet could fix easily (such as just disabling rally, lowering hp, lowering res speed etc) but doesnt seem to have the will to do, thankfully. Because we know what happens. If we say something is 20% OP, Anets next patch include an 80% nerf, a rework of entire traitlines and a 300s cd for good measure and then they spend years trying to fix their own mess.

 

I also find it hilarious that one of the main argument against it is that "it has no place in PvP". When the biggest PvP games has downstate.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Genesis.5169]

10 hours ago, Quadox.7834 said:

Downstate was a mechanic added to profile and market this game as a more casual mmo where players don't get punished for their mistakes. "You can keep fightning when you die!". It serves the purpose of the blue shell in mario kart, it levels out the playing field. And that's why it sucks.

And yet people in this thread are complaining about how OP it is on certain classes, perhaps we should reflect of how pvp has changed for 8 years has it gotten any better for all the content removed.

 

I can't discern this from any other nerf this because i don't like it thread.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Quadox.7834]

55 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

And yet people in this thread are complaining about how OP it is on certain classes, perhaps we should reflect of how pvp has changed for 8 years has it gotten any better for all the content removed.

 

I can't discern this from any other nerf this because i don't like it thread.

Yes, downtate is objevtively overpowered rn, but that is a separate point to the question of its existance

Edited July 26, 2021 by Quadox.7834

[DoomNexus.5324]

I would love to have a no downstate week or something. Just to see how things work out.

 

But honestly yea I don't think sPvP with its current balance (or any balance in its history tbh) would really work with no downstate at all. It's too cheesy with too little heal/support so it would result in one-shot builds and bunker meta.

But - as I said in another very recent thread about this topic - I would heavily appreciate (all of) the following changes:

- Remove rezz traits on all classes (at least for PvP) aka rework them to do something else

- Reduce rezz healing (not including skills like signet of mercy, I think they are ok)

- Only rally one team mate on an enemy player kill instead of everybody who attacked them (like in WvW) or don't rally at all in PvP. Both would be fine for me.

 

Especially the last point is in general super annoying.

@edit: My reasoning behind this is that I really like the idea that when you've won a team fight you can help your team mates who didn't die during the fight get up again. But the current version is just too overpowered in the sense that one player death can throw the entire team fight and if it's a crucial one it will pretty much end the entire match. It has way too much influence on deciding matches imho. It's a nice feature but it should only serve as "rescuing" team members AFTER the fight is over, not tilt the entire balance between the teams in a single moment.

Edited July 26, 2021 by DoomNexus.5324

[Cynz.9437]

Downstate is not a problem of GW2 PVP but rather extreme focus on PvE. WoW suffers from it too to certain extend but not as much simply because combat mechanics are bit different (e.g. you need target for most spells). Honestly, since HoT it just went downhill because devs decided that this game needs to be cluttered with AoEs. And THIS becomes huge problem in a game where pvp is centered around holding points and not death match like WoW arena. Of course we have death matches as well now however maps are generally so small for all that AoE spam that it doesn't matter.

 

Then there is imbalance issue. Just look at current meta. Just shove as many necros in the arena and be done with it. It is not fun. Probably not even for people playing those necros.

 

Also, don't forget that it took Anet years to even add seasons, new maps, rewards etc. By the time they did it, most of pvp community left due to lack of incentive to play. In WoW you had new rewards every season. Why should you bother in GW2?

 

I would argue these are the same reasons why FF14 pvp is basically non existent in comparison.

 

Is there is currently issue with downstate? Yes, indirectly. They need to look at rez traits/spells if anything so cleaving/CCs is viable tactic again.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Cynz.9437

[Widmo.3186]

On 7/26/2021 at 1:06 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which IMO has been shown over and over in WvW during the downed state events - without it GW2 becomes a hollow empty shell of itself. Downed state add tactical depth in smallscale combat and an urgence to assist others as a team. There is nothing quite as satisfying as making a comeback because the enemy may have brought the builds to kill, but not the builds to stomp.

Yeah, it been shown. No downed state events gather 3x more ppl than during normal week, the only people suffering from this event are duelers, because they have to run from spawn or end each duel on ~1%.
Theres nothing more satisfying than winning 1v3 and then 4th person comes and resses 3 others. Also theres nothing more satisfying than having 1 person staying in stealth/distance to make sure after others kill, it gonna safestomp. And also theres nothing more satisfying than seeing >80% of roaming scene to be groups of 2dps (preferably condi) and 3 supports that sometimes are providing utilities, but most of the time are just unskilled ppl that are rezzbots spamming stab/aegis/rezztraits.
...actually, theres something satisfying. When trashtalker gets into downed state hes at your mercy (or he can always Altf4, thats always an option). Jumping, siegethrowing, sitting in Nuhoch tonic, yeah, thats fun.

 

 

On 7/26/2021 at 1:06 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

I also find it hilarious that one of the main argument against it is that "it has no place in PvP". When the biggest PvP games has downstate.

Interesting, what are those giants of MMO PvP that have downstate youre talking about? Im really curious, havent been following mmo scene for awhile (with few exceptions) so maybe Ill try something from your suggestions and change my mind! Because youre not comparing mmo's to other genres like fps, right? That would be weird.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Widmo.3186

[Dawdler.8521]

49 minutes ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Yeah, it been shown. No downed state events gather 3x more ppl than during normal week,

I'd like to see the statistical evidence of that.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Widmo.3186]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I'd like to see the statistical evidence of that.

Wait till next event, you will have your statistics

Edit for the guy below - read our conversation, this one was about WvW event. You can just look at que times comparison, there will always be some ppl that hate it, I have 180 degree opinion from ppl that I know and my server, actually tons of ppl come back just for that event and leave once it ends. And simple evidence - if majority didnt like No Downed State week, why would ANet make it again and again? There was another event with stealing other classes utilities, they made it once and never again cuz ppl actually hated it. Makes sense?

Edited July 28, 2021 by Widmo.3186

[Trejgon.9367]

 

No downed state events gather 3x more ppl than during normal week

 

I would like some source quotation for that, because everytime that event comes, all I can hear from people I have contact with in actuall wvw, they all hate it.

 

I don't recall PvP no downstate event ever happening 🤔

 

As for downstate in sPvP - as far as my personal experience it hardly matters. Fights where downstate turned to matter are that matches that would have had same result even without downstate, because downstate was brought to matter by sheer difference between skill level between teams i.e. one team was heavilly coordinated, and the other one lacked ability to actually do anything about it - it could have turned one or two fights around, but overal match would play out roughtly same.

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Wait till next event, you will have your statistics

Why wait? Its there on the wvw stats page, kills + deaths ie overall activity.

 

Which server are you on, I can check for you. If its 3x compared to anything since the start of the year I'm gonna be impressed.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Widmo.3186]

55 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Why wait? Its there on the wvw stats page, kills + deaths ie overall activity.

 

Which server are you on, I can check for you. If its 3x compared to anything since the start of the year I'm gonna be impressed.

You mean wvwstats.com? Just checked how reliable source it is, so you want to check it based on k/d activity, which varies depending on matchup from, eg. 2k to 8k (for same server)? Without any events, just because some servers are more or less dead?
Right, how not to love statistics. You have 8k posts, you play this game long enough, stay around during normal week, see how many ppl are around and when/how big are ques. Then check it during event week. Pay attention and you will notice difference.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Widmo.3186

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Right, how not to love statistics. You have 8k posts, you play this game long enough, stay around during normal week, see how many ppl are around and when/how big are ques. Then check it during event week. Pay attention and you will notice difference.

Yep I did that too. We had just as much or more queues on reset the week after. And it was roughly the same as the week before. Which all is comparably low activity due to it being summer - for 9 years WvWers has always proclaimed WvW is dead in the summer months, same procedure every year.