Legendary armor is... Locked for some people.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

Okay.. I don't wish to deviate further from OP's post...

 

I quote the OP here

Quote

 

I have the problem that i am a assassin/Berserker Soulbeast, so no one wants me in their raids. They tell me to switch to druid and get healer runes. 

based on his post, it seems either

1. he didnt stat swap to optimal builds before trying to contribute to the encounter.
2.  he just tried the first lfg and gave up (or) making a big deal out of one commander telling him to switch roles and forgot other lfg listings.
3. he didnt wish to join training raid groups before jumping into lfgs
4. he did less to contribute in a team encounter where everyone is expected to do atleast n amount to make it a success so commie asked him whether he can perform good at diff role and the person already doing the druid role can switch to some other dps role

 

 

at this point, all we can do is suggest the OP to either join a raid training group/guild to get comfortable and confidence and take it from there...

refer: https://snowcrows.com/community/raid-training

or to look at the optimal build for raids https://snowcrows.com/builds/ranger/soulbeast/power-soulbeast and stat swap the gears if necessary and proceed further

and motivate him to look for more lfg rather than stopping at the very first one he encounters

 

rather than further demoralizing and making "raiding" sound scary for the OP, please encourage him in someway to pursue that goal

Edited August 5, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

36 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, how none of it has any relevance to what i said. I never said profession choices are not limited due to player demand. I pointed out that suggesting that OP's power SB build is not useful in raids is factually untrue. It may not be in as wide demand as healing druid is, but it is still useful nonetheless.

But it is factually true that Power SB isn't useful in raids, for all of the reasons I just listed.  Whether it is a mechanical hurdle or a social hurdle is largely irrelevant.  The irony is that your attempt to weasel out of your previous statement just means that you've admitted that you're lying by omission.  You always knew the social hurdle was there, and you deliberately neglected to mention this for the goal of being sarcastically condescending.  

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

so the so called adults in your context don't wish to run in marathons and yet they WANT a "marathon trophy"?

Ah, you see, the only thing that makes a maraton trophy a maraton trophy is the history behind it. If you want, you can easily get something very much like this (or even identical to it) somewhere else. Obtaining that other trophy-alike won't make you a marathon winner, but otherwise it will be identical to the original.

 

The only thing that differentiates, say, a real Oscar statuette from a facsimile is recognition.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Ah, you see, the only thing that makes a maraton trophy a maraton trophy is the history behind it. If you want, you can easily get something very much like this (or even identical to it) somewhere else. Obtaining that other trophy-alike won't make you a marathon winner, but otherwise it will be identical to the original.

 

The only thing that differentiates, say, a real Oscar statuette from a facsimile is recognition.

pls dont confuse the idea of doing x tasks to get y stuff

 

and idk what to respond to fake marathon / marathon-alike / identical trophy.. except that in this context, gw2 opens up 3 opportunities to get legy armors. pvp,wvw,pve. and ppl who consider raids are toxic and are so stringent in requirements and skills to get a legendary armor, pls go join a friendly group or do wvw thats more relavant to open world level of ease and no toxicity .. u dont have to talk to anyone at all... and if u consider pve armor to be cool looking, pls do something on your part to participate, contribute and populate that game mode.

 

even in marathon thers a first second and third place and participation trophies or certificates

in gw2, anet gives li for everyone participate in a raid kill and not just the one with top dps or top heals or top boon share and li are awarded every week unlike marathon race.. so your so called adults can join raids and dont have to even come first.. just contribute enough to the team to make it a success and get what they WANT and be happy

Edited August 5, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Astralporing.1957]

8 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

But it is factually true that Power SB isn't useful in raids, for all of the reasons I just listed.  Whether it is a mechanical hurdle or a social hurdle is largely irrelevant.  The irony is that your attempt to weasel out of your previous statement just means that you've admitted that you're lying by omission.  You always knew the social hurdle was there, and you deliberately neglected to mention this for the goal of being sarcastically condescending.  

...i think you should try to reread what i actually said, and in response to which post.

 

Yes, i was aware of the social hurdle. My response was actually calling that out (although it might have been too subtle for you).

 

In short: Power SB is useful in raids (how useful depends on encounter of course). That's a very good dps build - I played it myself, and seen others play it to a great success. Social hurdle you bring up has absolutely nothing to do with that usefulness however. It lies in claiming that some useful build is not useful, because you'd rather have that player fill a different slot. It's precisely what Ashantara was doing, and why i felt the need to correct it to put it in proper perspective.

 

If a group doesn;t want power SB, it's not because that build is not useful. It's because they happen to already have their dps slots filled (which is a result of competiton for those slots being far greater than for utility ones).

[Astralporing.1957]

29 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

pls dont confuse the idea of doing x tasks to get y stuff

I don't. You do. Or you seem to do, based on your examples.

 

Quote

and idk what to respond to fake marathon / marathon-alike / identical trophy.. except that in this context, gw2 opens up 3 opportunities to get legy armors. pvp,wvw,pve. and ppl who consider raids are toxic and are so stringent in requirements and skills to get a legendary armor, pls go do wvw thats more relavant to open world level of ease and no toxicity .. u dont have to talk to anyone at all... and if u consider pve armor to be cool looking, pls do something on your part to participate, contribute and populate that game mode.

I did, i got my armor, i pulled out. Because the mode itself has absolutely nothing to interest me.

 

That's the problem - you don't understand the difference between the mode giving value to the rewards coming from it, and the rewards giving value to the mode they come from. Those are two completely different things.

 

You think that the legendary armor is great, because it comes from raids, while for me the only relevance of raids is that they give legendary armor. And, in fact, for me, raids, instead of adding to the value of said armor, decrease it instead.

 

Quote

even in marathon thers a first second and third place and participation trophies or certificates

The difference being that the only value of those trophies is that they are rewarded for your marathon placement. They have no other use beyond that. Any reward you might get in some tournament that actually has its own value separate from the tournament that rewards it? All those things you can obtain by other means.

 

Quote

in gw2, anet gives li for everyone participate in a raid kill and not just the one with top dps or top heals or top boon share and li are awarded every week unlike marathon race.. so your so called adults can join raids and dont have to even come first.. just contribute enough to the team to make it a success and get what they WANT and be happy

If LI were just a trophy, a pure prestige reward, with no other value to it, we would not be having this conversation. Because nobody besides raiders would care.

 

50 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

so the so called adults in your context don't wish to run in marathons and yet they WANT a "marathon trophy"?

If adults truly thought marathon trophies have a value separate from the marathon they come from, they would be for sale.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Ashantara.8731]

19 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

First: i haven't actually seen OP say they cannot afford a second set. Did you?

 

Well, the following quote surely did sound like it: "It makes me sad that i am forced to change everything i have worked for, to get a armor set..."

 

19 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Third: So, you're saying that only veterans, with multiple characters and multiple sets of gear should ever apply to raids? And to think there are still people that are surpised that Raids ended up so unpopular they got abandoned by devs...

 

If you are still new and can't even afford a second set of exotic or ascended armor, you shouldn't be begging for an easy way to acquire legendary gear. My tip to the OP: Get your priorities right.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 

I've recently done pug raiding.  Unless you have a static group that lets you play whatever DPS you want while they handle all of the mechanics, then your profession choices are very limited.  This is what you can bring:

 

Chronomancer for Quickness and Tanking

Mirage for Alacrity

Druid for Heals, Might, Immobilize, and most specialty mechanics

Scourge for Epidemic, Boon Removal, Barrier, 

Firebrand for Quickness, Heals, Aegis

Renegade for Alacrity

Warrior for Banners

 

The rest all fall under either specialty mechanics, or DPS.  The damage dealer role is a dime a dozen, and is also usually filled by more of the above wearing berserker/viper gear.  DPS is only recruited after all of those roles have been fulfilled, which leaves around 4-6 spots depending on what people bring and what that specific boss needs.  DPS spots also fill up very quickly, which is why most LFGs are asking for a tank/druid/alacrity/hand kiter/pylon.

 

There's a problem with just getting a static group:  Statics recruit exclusively for the above roles, for the exact same reasons said previously: everyone can do DPS, so they try to get as many role fillers as possible.  It's no biggie if two alacs show up for the night, because one of them just changes to viper gear and is now condi DPS.  

 

So really, the OP is quite correct:  Unless you can do one of the in-demand roles, then you aren't able to raid.  

No, it's not correct, you can play whatever dps you want. Not sure why mentioning about "having to do mechanics" is even a thing in your post, mechanics are parts of the encounters which you should reasonably learn. I play pugs and somehow don't have a problem with filling dps spots.

OBVIOUSLY if you learn more roles and have more builds/picks/classes/specs at your disposal, you'll be able to fill more places in the squads. But what you've just said about not being able to consistently play dps classes unless you specialise in one of the few is without a doubt simply false.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Xanadrine.4352]

7 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Well, the following quote surely did sound like it: "It makes me sad that i am forced to change everything i have worked for, to get a armor set..."

 

 

If you are still new and can't even afford a second set of exotic or ascended armor, you shouldn't be begging for an easy way to acquire legendary gear. My tip to the OP: Get your priorities right.

see this is the problem, who is asking for easy gimmie legendary? No one at least not most of us, the easiest way to get a set would be to buy my way through raids and mats, as some do. What is being suggested isnt a buy carry its a long around the world journey full of completions and collections and kills, a journey not a carry. Something thats fits into the GW2 world kinda like the griffon was to mounts. Loved that journey hated getting the skyscale because it didnt feel like a journey through the lore and story, just a grind really. But griffon was done right and it felt like a bond and an accomplishment.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[sorudo.9054]

On 8/2/2021 at 7:00 PM, Peanutz.3129 said:

Name ONE legendary weapon which is not accessible by casual play?

You whining because it takes long?

Duh.... its a LEGENDARY weapon... not a "i did my dailys 5 times... now i want legendary gear" ...

since i hate PvP, all of them......

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. the whole idea of the MMO is to make people play in a social environment. Nothing more.

 

The point of developing varied content is to give something to different people. Not to make all the people play everything.

Sure -and that doesn't change what he said. You can pick who you play with through any given content. Which doesn't mean everything has to have the same rewards. That's just one of your frequently repeated misconceptions.

 

 

[DodonRay.8740]

Well if u guys wanna buy everything from store. There is a solution. Try gw2 chinese server . they selling everything for bucks.Just let us play fairly little bit here thanks..

Edited August 5, 2021 by DodonRay.8740

[Trayvon.7362]

Nobody is locked out of anything. If you want the PvE armor, then join the NA raid training discord. It is a friendly, safe environment to learn all the encounters. You can send out a ping literally any time of the day asking which wing you are interested in then ask for an instructor then you are on your way.

 

Other options are WvW or PvP. WvW takes the longest but is by far the easiest since you can just flip camps and barely do anything. You'll be amazed at what doors will open if you take the initiative and get out of your comfort zone.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, sorudo.9054 said:

since i hate PvP, all of them......

 

All gen 1 legendaries can be bought straight off the trading post. There is at least 1 Gen 1 legendary per weapon type, meaning any of the later ones are strictly for cosmetic reasons.

Edited August 5, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Wintermute.5408]

1 hour ago, Suinz.5968 said:

Nobody is locked out of anything. If you want the PvE armor, then join the NA raid training discord.

Is there such a server for Europe?

[Linken.6345]

41 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Is there such a server for Europe?

Yes there is'

 

https://snowcrows.com/community/raid-training

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

15 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. the whole idea of the MMO is to make people play in a social environment. Nothing more.

 

The point of developing varied content is to give something to different people. Not to make all the people play everything.

 

And in the end, the ultimate truth is that most people simply do not share your like of raids. And you cannot force them to change their mind. I know that liking something most other players do not value can be hard, but all raging against it really does is to make you look like a little kid complaining that the adults do not climb trees for apples, and as such do not consider his climbing skills to be worth noticing.

The point of rewards for playing certain content is to entice people to play that content.  You want the rewards, do the content.  It's why unique skins were added to PvP and WvW reward tracks.  It's why raids have their unique skins and most PvE things you can't get in WvW. 

And in the end, the ultimate truth is that a majority of people don't like PvP and WvW, but they don't cry about those rewards for some odd reason.  It's almost as though people only cry when their precious PvE content isn't just RMB+weapon skill 1 and afk.  You're rather patronizing here.  People want engaging content.  If you want an AFK clicker, go download one on your mobile phone.

[Astralporing.1957]

26 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You're rather patronizing here.  People want engaging content.

Sure, they so wanted raids, that those had to be abandoned by devs due to too low population.

 

That's because players want content that is engaging and fun. And specifically, engaging and fun not to you, but to them.

 

And it so happens that different players find fun in different types of gameplay - and that they require different levels (and types) of engagement.

[ArchonWing.9480]

33 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, they so wanted raids, that those had to be abandoned by devs due to too low population.

 

That's because players want content that is engaging and fun. And specifically, engaging and fun not to you, but to them.

 

And it so happens that different players find fun in different types of gameplay - and that they require different levels (and types) of engagement.

 

And there are many different types of gameplay for people to partake in. They don't all have to involve legendaries.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, they so wanted raids, that those had to be abandoned by devs due to too low population.

 

That's because players want content that is engaging and fun. And specifically, engaging and fun not to you, but to them.

 

And it so happens that different players find fun in different types of gameplay - and that they require different levels (and types) of engagement.

Raids are no different than the open world, yet so many players get hung up on the name alone.  It's as though they can't split WoW raids and FF14 Raids from GW2 Raids.  They decry toxicity whilst also doing nothing for the party.  They hold onto the singular bad experience while ignoring any and all positive ones.  They shut down and blame others instead of learning from their mistakes, adjusting their build, and/or changing their playstyle.  

In raids, you only need to rely on only 9 other people instead of literally an entire map swarming a boss so you can't be lazy with your build and actually have to learn how to do damage, provide boons, and perform mechanics.   It's PvE content, it's the PvE legendary armor, and it should require you to have some sort of mastery over the content to utilize.

Also, this is a themepark MMO, it should have content catering to everyone.  ANet already set up core systems (PvE with Raids, Fractals, dungeons, and open world/story; WvW with tournaments, reward tracks, and alliances; PvP with tournaments, reward tracks, and game modes) and chose to ignore a lot of them.  Sure "Raids be dead lul" is a common argument, but you know what else is also dead but has almost no gating what-so-ever?  PvP.  Wanna know why it's so dead?  Lack of support.  No frequent balance tweaks and a lack of new game modes left the mode dead.  But look, ANet's developing new things for it.  2v2, 3v3s, new tournaments and rewards.  And now it's more lively than it was before all of that.  Huh, who would have thought that developing content and showing it's being actively developed is a good way to get more people interested in the content?  WvW was also "Dead" at one point, but ANet then added a mount to it and it was alive until they, once again,  just did nothing with the game mode.
 

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Raids are no different than the open world, yet so many players get hung up on the name alone.  It's as though they can't split WoW raids and FF14 Raids from GW2 Raids.  They decry toxicity whilst also doing nothing for the party.  They hold onto the singular bad experience while ignoring any and all positive ones.  They shut down and blame others instead of learning from their mistakes, adjusting their build, and/or changing their playstyle.  

In raids, you only need to rely on only 9 other people instead of literally an entire map swarming a boss so you can't be lazy with your build and actually have to learn how to do damage, provide boons, and perform mechanics.   It's PvE content, it's the PvE legendary armor, and it should require you to have some sort of mastery over the content to utilize.

Also, this is a themepark MMO, it should have content catering to everyone.  ANet already set up core systems (PvE with Raids, Fractals, dungeons, and open world/story; WvW with tournaments, reward tracks, and alliances; PvP with tournaments, reward tracks, and game modes) and chose to ignore a lot of them.  Sure "Raids be dead lul" is a common argument, but you know what else is also dead but has almost no gating what-so-ever?  PvP.  Wanna know why it's so dead?  Lack of support.  No frequent balance tweaks and a lack of new game modes left the mode dead.  But look, ANet's developing new things for it.  2v2, 3v3s, new tournaments and rewards.  And now it's more lively than it was before all of that.  Huh, who would have thought that developing content and showing it's being actively developed is a good way to get more people interested in the content?  WvW was also "Dead" at one point, but ANet then added a mount to it and it was alive until they, once again,  just did nothing with the game mode.
 

All that talk, and it still doesn't change the fact that most players simply do not find raids fun. And no amount of support Anet might have been willing to give to that content would have changed that.

[Dante.1763]

18 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

All that talk, and it still doesn't change the fact that most players simply do not find raids fun. And no amount of support Anet might have been willing to give to that content would have changed that.

Nor change that you can be good at the game and not want to do 10 man instanced content.

 

I can and have done(and intend to do) raids, i do fractals too(including 100cm), and dungeons back in there heyday. And yet, dungeons and fractals are ininfinetly more fun, enjoyable and engaging than raids. 

 

Which is why i support a general pve set(with either no unique skin, or one like wvw/pvp. Ascended armor skin with glowy bits.) That excludes raids. It will detract nothing from me when i finally get my Envoy Armor. It will take nothing away from me, and give others the QOL upgrades that come with legendaries, and i dont see that as a bad thing.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

All that talk, and it still doesn't change the fact that most players simply do not find raids fun. And no amount of support Anet might have been willing to give to that content would have changed that.

All that talk and it still doesn't change the fact that not everyone needs legendary armor for anything in the game for anything they do.

...and that nobody's "locked out" of it.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

All that talk and it still doesn't change the fact that not everyone needs legendary armor for anything in the game for anything they do.

Yes. Noone needs it. That includes Raiders. So, since we have already established that it is already being given out to people that do not need it, that "fact" becomes meaningless as an argument. Unless you want to argue for removing legendary armor from the game completely, of course.

 

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...and that nobody's "locked out" of it.

Only in theory. In practice, most players are.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. Noone needs it. That includes Raiders.

Sure, how does it change anything about what I said?

 

Quote

So, since we have already established that it is already being given out to people that do not need it, that "fact" becomes meaningless as an argument. Unless you want to argue for removing legendary armor from the game completely, of course.

No, it doesn't. There's nothing wrong with having ""endgame"" rewards that require effort, especially when those rewards don't give "better players more power". It's not power creeping anyone or anything, it doesn't lock anyone out of any content. There's nothing wrong with existance of limited rewards for limited content same as there's nothing wrong with super rare infusions. You can dodge that all you want, but that still remains factual. If someone values zerging world bosses more than those rare rewards, they are 100% fine with playing with ascended and still lose next to nothing.

 

Quote

Only in theory. In practice, most players are.

No, nobody is locked out of it. If someone doesn't want to learn the content, they're not locked out of it, they make that decision for themself.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Sobx.1758