Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Vayne.8563]

3 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I did not write, that it does not happen. But in WvW, where I spend a lot of time, it’s a small minority. 
 

You can't prove it, I don't believe it, but how would you know.  It looks like a guy escorting a dolyak. Runs back to a castle, stands there a few seconds.  They're not following a zerg around, they're not roaming. They're the easy kills some roamers look for.  There are enough to keep roamers that I know happy.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You can't prove it, I don't believe it, but how would you know.  It looks like a guy escorting a dolyak. Runs back to a castle, stands there a few seconds.  They're not following a zerg around, they're not roaming. They're the easy kills some roamers look for.  There are enough to keep roamers that I know happy.

Escorting a dolyak means now being afk? I know WvW players that escort dolyaks to get towers and castles to t3 or players that guard the spawn camp while getting participation. They are not afk. 

[Gehenna.3625]

@Vayne.8563

I think that competitive modes like sPvP and WvW are prone to people who like to brag about their achievements. Not all of them of course, but there is that tendency. I've seen it in many games.

 

Also raiders are prone to being elitist and as such brag about their achievements. 

 

I think there they have a reason to at times, particularly the raiders and ranked players, but at the same time the condescending attitude that comes with that is not appropriate.

 

And as such they like to overestimate what they do and underestimate the other play modes, but as you indicate there are people in sPvP and WvW that do the bare minimum and afk their way through. So that means that legendaries from sPvP and WvW do not meaning anything. They could mean something but they also could mean that they participated. Participation rewards in other words. That's a lot less with raiding. But either way, it's no reason to scoff at OW. There are a variety of things that take some skill and you need to do something for it. When I see people AFK in competitive modes, they really don't need to do anything more than the bare minimum. And apparently patience and perseverance are not skills they consider and yet...I mean, there's a reason (as I found out) that people pay for gifts of exploration. 

 

So in the end I'm for OW legendaries, but I do think that they should be equal to the effort to the legendaries that exist. At least in the same ball park because there is a somewhat wide range already.

[T G.7496]

2 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You can't prove it, I don't believe it, but how would you know.  It looks like a guy escorting a dolyak. Runs back to a castle, stands there a few seconds.  They're not following a zerg around, they're not roaming. They're the easy kills some roamers look for.  There are enough to keep roamers that I know happy.

They're a useful part of the WvW ecology then.

They also give the team chat keyboard warriors something to complain about when it's a slow day for them.

Honestly, WvW is my favourite mode, and I really don't think they're that much of a problem.

Eventually they either get chewed up and spat out, get what they need and kitten off, or discover they actually enjoy the mode and stick around.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

Escorting a dolyak means now being afk? I know WvW players that escort dolyaks to get towers and castles to t3 or players that guard the spawn camp while getting participation. They are not afk. 

No but the timer is reset to 5 mins and so they afk for a few mins and then escort another Dolyak. So in WvW they don't stand around afk'ing all the time but 80% of the time if you will.

[Gehenna.3625]

Just now, TwoGhosts.6790 said:

They're a useful part of the WvW ecology then.

In essence yes but then it's not an argument for saying that WvW is harder than OW content.

[Tyncale.1629]

I do not know how big the problem is, but I will always support a post that roots for an Open World Legendary Armor Set. 🙂  Maybe with *some* WvW thrown in like with the Weapons.

 

When I am working on my Gift of Battle. I do the WvW dailies: flip camps, claim flags, attack guards, kill the Veteran mobs and claim Ruins. People have been doing this from the start and I think that is fine. I sometimes wait a minute or two for pips when I have a full timer, but I always take care to refill that timer to a full 5 or 10 minutes. Don't want to lose that tier 6 participation!  Better to keep it at 6 then having to re-earn it everytime. This is still a pretty slow way to get your Gift of Battle, and a very slow way to get Leggy armor. But there is no true AFK-ing in WvW imo, you have to keep doing stuff. Running with a Zerg(grouped or not) and being completely oblivious what you are doing is probably a worse form of AFK then what I am doing. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[T G.7496]

6 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

In essence yes but then it's not an argument for saying that WvW is harder than OW content.

Honestly, if someone's approach to the acquisition of legendary armour is to run a dolyak or flip a camp every 5m, then I have to admire that commitment. That's about the most difficult way they could choose to do it. One would assume that they are also very low rank.

Completing diamond every week will still take you 6 months for a complete armour set.

I can only imagine that it will take that individual substantially longer.

That's pretty committed.

And anyway, flipping camps, escorting dollies, repairing walls, capping sentries. Those are all legitimate means of participation that are useful to your team.

Not especially legendary, granted, but there is the ever present jeopardy of PvP combat whenever you venture out, so there's that.

[Gehenna.3625]

5 minutes ago, TwoGhosts.6790 said:

Honestly, if someone's approach to the acquisition of legendary armour is to run a dolyak or flip a camp every 5m, then I have to admire that commitment. That's about the most difficult way they could choose to do it. One would assume that they are also very low rank.

Completing diamond every week will still take you 6 months for a complete armour set.

I can only imagine that it will take that individual substantially longer.

That's pretty committed.

And anyway, flipping camps, escorting dollies, repairing walls, capping sentries. Those are all legitimate means of participation that are useful to your team.

Not especially legendary, granted, but there is the ever present jeopardy of PvP combat whenever you venture out, so there's that.

lol, fair point, but you'd be surprised how people have become proficient in doing something else "while playing an MMO". But it does highlight the issue that WvW is more about participation than skill. It also takes a commitment to play "seriously" when it's just an ebb and flow in the same 4 maps for years and years. The objectives are only safe for 5 mins after being capped. You could come back the next day and the maps can look completely different. It doesn't take much to realise the pointlessness of taking that seriously. 

 

And yeah that's the issue I have. I do play WvW and I do all those things that you mention and more but I never really get more than gold in a week, because it has a limited fun factor for me and I do have to divide my time between OW and WvW.

 

I really don't want to raid or do sPvP though, so that leaves me with the point of gaining 3 sets of legendary armor (light, med, heavy) at a very slow rate. So I'll like never complete them lol. And that's ok, but if they were to add the possibility of doing OW for that then I'd be onboard with that.

[Dante.1763]

Wow im surprised at how many of these weve had in two weeks >.>

 

Im down for an ow set sure, but uh..not gonna rehash arguments that just got done..with the same exact people from last week.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

Escorting a dolyak means now being afk? I know WvW players that escort dolyaks to get towers and castles to t3 or players that guard the spawn camp while getting participation. They are not afk. 

Escorting one dolyak or killing one guard and then standing in a tower until you do just enough to kill one more thing isn't afk. But it's not playing WvW either.  I know one guy who does it at work. He's not even there most of the time. He's working on his legendary armor the whole time he's working.  

You think that's playing?  Okay then.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, TwoGhosts.6790 said:

They're a useful part of the WvW ecology then.

They also give the team chat keyboard warriors something to complain about when it's a slow day for them.

Honestly, WvW is my favourite mode, and I really don't think they're that much of a problem.

Eventually they either get chewed up and spat out, get what they need and kitten off, or discover they actually enjoy the mode and stick around.

So I guy that does one thing every five minutes and sits there and waits and does one more thing is a useful part of WvW? What if it's just killing a vet creature and killing the undead by the tombstones and nothing else.  Because that's what some people I know have done. As little as possible, standing there doing something else in between.  So legendary.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

I do not know how big the problem is, but I will always support a post that roots for an Open World Legendary Armor Set. 🙂  Maybe with *some* WvW thrown in like with the Weapons.

 

When I am working on my Gift of Battle. I do the WvW dailies: flip camps, claim flags, attack guards, kill the Veteran mobs and claim Ruins. People have been doing this from the start and I think that is fine. I sometimes wait a minute or two for pips when I have a full timer, but I always take care to refill that timer to a full 5 or 10 minutes. Don't want to lose that tier 6 participation!  Better to keep it at 6 then having to re-earn it everytime. This is still a pretty slow way to get your Gift of Battle, and a very slow way to get Leggy armor. But there is no true AFK-ing in WvW imo, you have to keep doing stuff. Running with a Zerg(grouped or not) and being completely oblivious what you are doing is probably a worse form of AFK then what I am doing. 

Well there sure is AFKing in PvP regardless. Even if you want to take WvW out of the equation you can go into PvP and hit autorun against a wall and get your pips.

[Omega.6801]

See the other thread for my opinion.

[yoni.7015]

10 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Escorting one dolyak or killing one guard and then standing in a tower until you do just enough to kill one more thing isn't afk. But it's not playing WvW either.  I know one guy who does it at work. He's not even there most of the time. He's working on his legendary armor the whole time he's working.  

You think that's playing?  Okay then.

you know one (!) guy that does that? Okay, what do you want me to say. Doing only that in WvW is not very clever. You get legendary gear faster with a higher WvW rank.

Doesn’t change the fact that it is a small minority. I know you want to create a narrative here. But you should stick to the facts. And maybe it is not the best narrative when all you do is trash other game modes and their players. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by yoni.7015

[Tyncale.1629]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Well there sure is AFKing in PvP regardless. Even if you want to take WvW out of the equation you can go into PvP and hit autorun against a wall and get your pips.

Well, that sounds terrible, but can't these people be booted from the match? Never done PvP so forgive me for asking something stupid. 

 

On another note, I understand that you do not really think that what I am doing in WvW is actually participating in WvW.  I agree it's not very Legendary, but I still go out there, often hook up with one or two peeps who are doing the same thing, and still feel I could be jumped by Roamers. 🙂  A feeling that I will probably never start to appreciate. 😅 I also gather points for my "side" as I understand it so I am still contributing.   As to what are Legendary actions in both PvE and PvP/WvW is probably up for debate. When I run with a Zerg, I do not feel very Legendary, I feel like this.  

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Tyncale.1629 said:

Well, that sounds terrible, but can't these people be booted from the match? Never done PvP so forgive me for asking something stupid. 

 

On another note, I understand that you do not really think that what I am doing in WvW is actually participating in WvW.  I agree it's not very Legendary, but I still go out there, often hook up with one or two peeps who are doing the same thing, and still feel I could be jumped by Roamers. 🙂  A feeling that I will probably never start to appreciate. 😅 I also gather points for my "side" as I understand it so I am still contributing.   As to what are Legendary actions in both PvE and PvP/WvW is probably up for debate. When I run with a Zerg, I do not feel very Legendary, I feel like this.  

I just flip camps >.> so legendary. Dont even fight other players, i either let em kill me without bothering or waypoint away.

At the same time, i only go there for GOBS/reward tracks so.

[Tyncale.1629]

1 minute ago, Dante.1763 said:

I just flip camps >.> so legendary. Dont even fight other players, i either let em kill me without bothering or waypoint away.

At the same time, i only go there for GOBS/reward tracks so.

When I am doing my stuff I only jump into a fight when 2 or 3 others already jumped in, and the odds are in our favor. I am such a coward. 😞  There was this Mesmer who taunted our little group of 3 the other day. But he kept blinking away or something when he got low on health. And then came back to taunt some more. Yeah, so I guess I have to now look up what skill he uses and how I can counter that?  Kitten that, back to insta-waypointing when I see a red dot running towards me. 🙂

[Konrad Curze.5130]

3 hours ago, TwoGhosts.6790 said:

 

Not especially legendary, granted, but there is the ever present jeopardy of PvP combat whenever you venture out, so there's that.

which isnt that much of a jeopardy when you can just /sit and let yourself be killed with zero effect on your "performance".

 

because there is absolutly no requirement whatsoever for achieving anything. like, at all.

 

eventually, PvP/WvW armor is handed out to any schmuck for standing semi-idle long enough

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Konrad Curze.5130

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Konrad Curze.5130 said:

which isnt that much of a jeopardy when you can just /sit and let yourself be killed with zero effect on your "performance".

 

because there is absolutly no requirement whatsoever for achieving anything. like, at all.

 

eventually, PvP/WvW armor is handed out to any schmuck for standing semi-idle long enough

 

Well. They did say its a participation reward, not a skill reward, so i guess its working as intended.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

13 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Well. They did say its a participation reward, not a skill reward, so i guess its working as intended.

 

 

sure. then as I said let PvE play by the same rules, and give a tiny bit of progression  to anyone for stepping into a raid alone, smacking the boss once and dying gloriously in half a second.

because thats also "participating", I suppose.

 

Dunno why PvE is singled out to require having results, rather than "being kinda, sorta there but not really"  like the other 2.

 

 

or as I also said, reset everyone's PvP/WvW armor and make them get it again, after  implementing truly epic requirements of performance and skill involved, so people have to actually earn it this time around rather than getting it for running a bot while they watch Netflix

 

 

yes, Im aware all the PvP/WvW players are hating me right now...."what? this dude want us to earn our legendary armor? oh, the horror!!!!!!"

Edited August 26, 2021 by Konrad Curze.5130

[Obtena.7952]

10 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm currently working through PvP legendary armor (and some WvW legendary armor as well) even though I don't particularly enjoy SPvP. It mean it's okay. I'll play it just to get the reward. But I don't really like it. 

In my journeys I've run across others who not only don't like it but don't care to try. They don't care if they win or lose because you know, you get pips either way. It takes more effort to get it by winning so they afk or they try to lose to get the game over faster so they can get more pips, not by winning but my losing in a more timely manner. I'm not sure who this helps. It's not helping PvPers who are there trying to win (I always try to win when I play) and I'm not sure it helps PvE'ers who don't like PvP but they want the shiny so they engage in that content, even if it's ruining it for other people.

Someone said, on reddit earlier, that open world PvE is too easy to reward legendary armor, but the more I thought about it, the more wrong I felt he was.  I mean what's easier that losing a thousand PvP matches without trying at all. Because that's how a lot of people are getting legendary armor. In WvW it's even worse, they take a lot of the server, get their participation up by any way they can, and read a book while getting pips, occassionaly escorting a dolyak or killing a guard to maintain participation. But they're not really participating in WvW. They're afking to get legendary armor.

Being this is the case, how different would it really be to put a set in with no new skins, just to keep people away from screwing up other people's game, while they work on something they like themselves.   If it weren't for the fact that you can get legendary armor doing the bare minimum except time spent in both PvP and WvW, why shouldn't the same be true for open world PvE.

 

You'd populate more metas that way, while at the same time, you'd keep the open world more populated in general (depending on how you set the goals) and you'd get the people who don't like PvP and WvW out of those modes so people who want to play it for enjoyment actually can enjoy it.

All yes ... I honestly don't get people's mentality that they WANT people half heartedly participating in their favoured game modes just for a reward, especially when it degrades the quality of play of that mode or excludes people trying to get in the mode because of player limits. Maybe somehow they convinced themselves the negative results from half players is offset by the mode appearing more important on the statistics than it really is?

 

It's weird cause people QQ about bots in PVP ... but players just afking or doing the least to get reward ... no problem with that. It's really short-sighted. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think that competitive modes like sPvP and WvW are prone to people who like to brag about their achievements. Not all of them of course, but there is that tendency. I've seen it in many games.

 

Also raiders are prone to being elitist and as such brag about their achievements. 

No, they're not, you're just blindly repeating a lie.

__

4 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Wow im surprised at how many of these weve had in two weeks >.>

Yeah, like... 3, repeated by the same people that already were writing in the previous ones, but nice narrative you're trying to push here, eh? 😉 

__

9 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It doesn't have to be metas and the new expansion hasn't launched yet.  Anet could make legendary armor do every dynamic event in the entire game.

You've pretended metas need some help with participation, so that's what I responded to -they don't. And neither do dynamic events for the most part.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

All yes ... I honestly don't get people's mentality that they WANT people half heartedly participating in their favoured game modes just for a reward, especially when it degrades the quality of play of that mode or excludes people trying to get in the mode because of player limits.  

It's the nature of any competitive mode in MMOs that are based in PvE. At first there's a lot of people. Then more and more people get kitten because they can't win and the blame game starts (class x is op or haxors, etc.). Then they leave because "nothing has changed" and then more and more people leave the game and go elsewhere (where they will do the exact same things. And of course competitive modes also come with a level of toxicity.

 

So the irony is that competitive modes need "noobs" and "afk'ers", the same people they curse on to keep those modes alive.

 

I remember that SWTOR changed PvP so that you had to win to get (the daily/weekly) rewards. Ever since, ranked has become a tiny pool of people that keep running into each other and that group stays the same and PvP development was stagnant as it was. It's laughable really, but this is what happens when you reward skill in competitive modes and Anet wants to make sure that as many people as possible find competitive modes rewarding and yes, a downside of that is prime time when you have to queue to get into those maps.

[Gehenna.3625]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, they're not, you're just blindly repeating a lie.

Well that's your opinion and I already stated mine. Since we both have only anecdotal evidence to support our opinions, neither of us can be sure. That's why I said "prone to" and "not all of them". You, however, call it a lie which is much more black and white and yet you can't prove your statement either.