Willbender f tier

[RedAvenged.5217]

31 minutes ago, Noir.8561 said:

Lets increase the damage of Willbender firstly , because they don't have the Survibility/Mobility of Thief.

And the 30% damage of thief , "will be on the table"

 

I am sorry , but you are wrong . The  community thinks Stealth and that Runes , offer Survibility and allow to reset . They are not whining about the nerfed damage of the traps

I assume , you are a new player here , so i forgive you 🙂

Unowen isn’t new he’s like one of the ancient golems set up to protect the forums

[Lucentfir.7430]

23 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Unowen isn’t new he’s like one of the ancient golems set up to protect the forums

Can confirm this, speaking as one such ancient golem as well.

[UNOwen.7132]

9 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Lets increase the damage of Willbender firstly , because they don't have the Survibility/Mobility of Thief.

And the 30% damage of thief , "will be on the table"

 

Oh Willbender has far better survivability than thief, its not even close. Mobility is yet to be decided, but apparently someone tested it and they do in fact match it, so willbender already does too much damage and thief might need to be buffed up to be matched.

 

9 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

I am sorry , but you are wrong . The  community thinks Stealth and that Runes , offer Survibility and allow to reset . They are not whining about the nerfed damage of the traps

 

 

Im not though. The bad part of the community might think that. The same bad part that has always thought that if the enemy thief uses BP into Heartseeker there is nothing you can do and you cant just burst them down and kill them. But theyre wrong, because theyre bad. Its not the traps thats the issue, its Guardians cast times being hidden.

 

9 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

I assume , you are a new player here , so i forgive you 🙂

No. You however, you could be. You get a lot of basic things wrong.

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Oh Willbender has far better survivability than thief, its not even close. Mobility is yet to be decided, but apparently someone tested it and they do in fact match it, so willbender already does too much damage and thief might need to be buffed up to be matched.

 

 

 

Im not though. The bad part of the community might think that. The same bad part that has always thought that if the enemy thief uses BP into Heartseeker there is nothing you can do and you cant just burst them down and kill them. But theyre wrong, because theyre bad. Its not the traps thats the issue, its Guardians cast times being hidden.

 

No. You however, you could be. You get a lot of basic things wrong.

In fact someone tested and found out in the flat surfuce that theif can travel in 33 sec , while WB in 39 .

He should do the same "running the map in a full circle , rather than a short straight line" .

In Vertical surface , there is no contest , Thief won  .

 

Thief have more defense , passively (30% +7% hp + weakness) and active (blinds-mobility-stealth) , without counting the Utilitles +elites

They only thing is lacking is Damage and i wonder why

 

Stealth is aexcellent tool to survive , that why the population hates the Stealth Runes

 

Again you are wrong .

 

edit: I searched your history , and i saw that you are hoping for the new specs to have huge dps , after the powerdip from the February .

Why , you  are so against  of WB getting more damage ?

Is it because mobile + damage , might make your game less enjoyable for your Thief ?

Edited August 20, 2021 by Noir.8561

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, Highlie.7641 said:

The damage reduction trait is in the same line as  Leeching Venoms.  The only reason to take the damage reduction trait is if your trying to meme around as a support spec (Ninja nurse). 

 

The 7% increase is on Daredevil (about 2k-3k life) . an elite spec. You would also have to give up picking https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/4/41/Escapist%27s_Fortitude.png/25px-Escapist%27s_Fortitude.png Escapist's Fortitude. The only way to do that would be dropping  Bountiful Theft and picking Trickster providing your using full trickery utilities (your not).

 

Weakness are you  kidding me? everyone has weakness go sit down mr protection.

 

As for heartseeker, Well that's all because Arena net has no sense of balance.  go ahead just try and stay in melee range without using DD.... You can't, because they have permanet swiftness while your one source (Thrill of the crime) is on a long CD and is always corrupted. hence the HS spam. 

 

The fact that the balance team listens to you  fools is mind boggling. 

 

 

 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaAYLEA-e

I believe i  saw him a while ago saying that NO thieves ever get Escapist's Fortitude   and instead chooses  Marauder's Resilience for the extra 7% hp .

 

I am simply asking him : dont he want to move away from powerdip ? why he  denies other classes from getting it first ?

Edited August 20, 2021 by Noir.8561

[UNOwen.7132]

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

In fact someone tested and found out in the flat surfuce that theif can travel in 33 sec , while WB in 39 .

He should do the same "running the map in a full circle , rather than a short straight line" .

In Vertical surface , there is no contest , Thief won  .

 

Source needed. The only 2 people I saw that tested it both found that on flat surfaces, Willbender matched thief, or even beat it. Did a quick test myself on Foefire full circle. Thief needed 43.3 seconds, Willbender 43.2 seconds. Basically even.

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Thief have more defense , passively (30% +7% hp + weakness) and active (blinds-mobility-stealth) , without counting the Utilitles +elites

Not even remotely close. For one, the most damage reduction thief will have is 19%. I have told you no less than 5 times by now why your math is wrong, and if you continue to use it, youre basically announcing "Assume the opposite of what I say is true because good lord do I have NO clue at all". Active defense, its not even remotely close. Thief has really poor active defense (2 evades, some blind, thats it. No, stealth is not defense, its the opposite). Guardian? Several blocks, invuln, healing, condi cleanse up the wazoo and even an evade. 

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

They only thing is lacking is Damage and i wonder why

 

No, damage AND survivability are sorely lacking, while mobility seems ot be matched.

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Stealth is aexcellent tool to survive , that why the population hates the Stealth Runes

 

Again you are wrong .

 

Hah no. Stealth is an ATROCIOUS tool for survival, and the reason people hate stealth runes is either, A, theyre good and hate that it allows the DH to hide cast times and create unreactable burst, or B, they are terrible player and dont know how to cleave stealth to punish people for trying to use it defensively, the one thing its TERRIBLE at. Youre wrong, but you seem to have experience with being wrong.

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

edit: I searched your history , and i saw that you are hoping for the new specs to have huge dps , after the powerdip from the February .

Why , you  are so against  of WB getting more damage ?

Is it because mobile + damage , might make your game less enjoyable for your Thief ?

Oh Im not. Give it damage if you want, but give EVERYONE damage then. In particular, massively buff thieves damage. Like, go crazy with the buffs. Make thief do at least as much if not more damage than Willbender. Because if you dont, and willbenders mobility pans out the way were predicting it does, thief becomes an unpickable class. Also I dont play thief, I play Engineer. I just used to play thief, and I hate what the class became because they removed everything for the sake of mobility.

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Source needed. The only 2 people I saw that tested it both found that on flat surfaces, Willbender matched thief, or even beat it. Did a quick test myself on Foefire full circle. Thief needed 43.3 seconds, Willbender 43.2 seconds. Basically even.

 

Not even remotely close. For one, the most damage reduction thief will have is 19%. I have told you no less than 5 times by now why your math is wrong, and if you continue to use it, youre basically announcing "Assume the opposite of what I say is true because good lord do I have NO clue at all". Active defense, its not even remotely close. Thief has really poor active defense (2 evades, some blind, thats it. No, stealth is not defense, its the opposite). Guardian? Several blocks, invuln, healing, condi cleanse up the wazoo and even an evade. 

 

 

No, damage AND survivability are sorely lacking, while mobility seems ot be matched.

 

 

Hah no. Stealth is an ATROCIOUS tool for survival, and the reason people hate stealth runes is either, A, theyre good and hate that it allows the DH to hide cast times and create unreactable burst, or B, they are terrible player and dont know how to cleave stealth to punish people for trying to use it defensively, the one thing its TERRIBLE at. Youre wrong, but you seem to have experience with being wrong.

 

Oh Im not. Give it damage if you want, but give EVERYONE damage then. In particular, massively buff thieves damage. Like, go crazy with the buffs. Make thief do at least as much if not more damage than Willbender. Because if you dont, and willbenders mobility pans out the way were predicting it does, thief becomes an unpickable class. Also I dont play thief, I play Engineer. I just used to play thief, and I hate what the class became because they removed everything for the sake of mobility.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/100004-willbender-is-not-weak/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1438423

You even replied to that thread

I wonder what would be the results , if he did a full-circle map .

What is your source ?

 

And you are wrong

Stealth is a beautiful defensive mechanic , thats why people whine about the Stealth runes

Like as usual , you are wrong or new to this game .

 

Give first damage to the expack classes  and if your class "worth it' in the eyes of the devs , you can have it too .

Shiro does more damage than thieves , but thieves still get picked up more in Tournaments 🙂

Edited August 20, 2021 by Noir.8561

[Ghos.1326]

On 8/18/2021 at 2:00 AM, Sovari.7246 said:

It's interesting rushdown  class but you lose a lot of bunkering and blocking compared viable class core or dh. 

This spec isn't supposed to be a bunker/tank though. It's an assassin style spec. assassins don't bunker nor do they tank.

[UNOwen.7132]

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/100004-willbender-is-not-weak/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1438423

You even replied to that thread

I wonder what would be the results , if he did a full-circle map .

What is your source ?

 

Oh I missed that. My own test. Anyway, looking over his numbers ... yeah theyre bollocks. Willbenders is about right, thieves is much lower than the actual numbers. My guess? He used shadowstep on the last part and then shadowstepped back to desperately lower the time. 

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

And you are wrong

Stealth is a beautiful defensive mechanic , thats why people whine about the Stealth runes

Like as usual , you are wrong or new to this game .

 

Nope. Try using stealth to survive yourself. Youll see, you will die instantly to any good player. Youre the one who is wrong and probably new, since you seem to think stealth is anything other than useless for defense. And yes, bad players might whine about stealth being used defensively. Theyre bad. Thats why they whine.

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Give first damage to the expack classes  and if your class "worth it' in the eyes of the devs , you can have it too .

Shiro does more damage than thieves , but thieves still get picked up more in Tournaments 🙂

 

Because theif is more mobile. 

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Oh I missed that. My own test. Anyway, looking over his numbers ... yeah theyre bollocks. Willbenders is about right, thieves is much lower than the actual numbers. My guess? He used shadowstep on the last part and then shadowstepped back to desperately lower the time. 

 

 

Nope. Try using stealth to survive yourself. Youll see, you will die instantly to any good player. Youre the one who is wrong and probably new, since you seem to think stealth is anything other than useless for defense. And yes, bad players might whine about stealth being used defensively. Theyre bad. Thats why they whine.

 

 

Because theif is more mobile. 

Show us  a video , which you can dissaprove him about Thief having less mobility .

You went to his thread 5 min agao , saying  : "i have done the calculations  and so many other ,  you are wrong and you shouldnt use Shadowstep"

Offer us some proof

 

And you are wrong about the stealth once again , as usual.

I wonder in how much length , you are going so not another Shiro will be created and make your life miserable .

 

(Can you imagine if they are going to  release 2xmore  , so people stop using their silly HoT Bunkers specs ? Even if at launch , it  is  a zergfest  ?And we wait to some Pro  tournament some Bunker to emerge ?)

 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Noir.8561

[Buran.3796]

   Stealth is a very versatile tool and probably the strongest defensive skill in the game: once in stealth any skill which needs a target becomes useless and a lot of builds which lack large AoE attacks have to rely on auto attacks to pressure those in stealth (which is a joke). Combine that with high mobility and the chance to burst or cc from stealth and no wonder is amongst the most hated mechanic in the game.

 

   Being said that: WB is weaker than core Guardian or DH (but better than FB in PvP and more fun in PvE). It has to either improve in stats or (better choice) ditch some absurd delays which most of its skills carry around. At the current state if I have to run a WB it would be almost full meditations with a single physical skill, and probably wouldn't touch a virtue outside of F1, and never would use the off hand sword in its current state.    The spec looks like a "wannabe" BDO's striker lacking the mobility, AoE pressure and damage.

[Chapell.1346]

It is what you get when you thirst for existence

and it has been clear to me that the management has no control over, poorly design across all game mode.

[cloudsareyum.8120]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:57 AM, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Best builds I’ve seen are a roaming burst build and avatar symbols.

 

symbols has some really nice mechanics with the stab and ppl compare the roaming version to rev. But be real! It so insanely weak!!!

oh!! btw, there is a willbender feedback thread under guardian and i'm sure Anet is looking at it and would benefit from your expertise  and feedback 😄  Also linking htis too, if you haven't already ^^

Edited August 21, 2021 by cloudsareyum.8120

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Stealth is a very versatile tool and probably the strongest defensive skill in the game: once in stealth any skill which needs a target becomes useless and a lot of builds which lack large AoE attacks have to rely on auto attacks to pressure those in stealth (which is a joke). Combine that with high mobility and the chance to burst or cc from stealth and no wonder is amongst the most hated mechanic in the game.

 

It is versatile. It is however not "the strongest defensive skill". You can debate whether its "the weakest defensive skill in the game" or "not even a defensive skill in the game", but thats all it is. Yes, it prevents targetted skills from hitting you ... sometimes. Some still track through stealth for a good second or two, anything that is channelled obviously keeps hitting and players can even get some snipes through manually hitting you.

 

By comparision, block, evade, invuln and damage nullification (or whatever you call Signet of Stone and that one Warrior stance) just straight up prevent targetted skills from doing damage to you period. Without any of the multiple caveats. While also preventing melee attacks and AoEs from hitting you which stealth doesnt. You see the issue? Its no contest, stealth is trash for defense.

 

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Being said that: WB is weaker than core Guardian or DH (but better than FB in PvP and more fun in PvE). It has to either improve in stats or (better choice) ditch some absurd delays which most of its skills carry around. At the current state if I have to run a WB it would be almost full meditations with a single physical skill, and probably wouldn't touch a virtue outside of F1, and never would use the off hand sword in its current state.    The spec looks like a "wannabe" BDO's striker lacking the mobility, AoE pressure and damage.

 

Its a +1 build, play it like one.

[UNOwen.7132]

6 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Show us  a video , which you can dissaprove him about Thief having less mobility .

You went to his thread 5 min agao , saying  : "i have done the calculations  and so many other ,  you are wrong and you shouldnt use Shadowstep"

Offer us some proof

 

Too much effort for evidence which you will ignore because it hurts your case. Again, I had to teach you about how damage reduction worked 5 times and you still got it wrong.

 

6 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

And you are wrong about the stealth once again , as usual.

I wonder in how much length , you are going so not another Shiro will be created and make your life miserable .

 

No, I am right about stealth once again, as usual. You continue to be wrong about stealth. But seeing how you also are wrong about mobility, how damage reduction works, and how builds work, you probably are just a new player who doesnt understand all these things yet. Here is a tip, read up on the wiki and play around with it. See what you can figure out. Also, Willbender isnt like Shiro, and you clearly dont understand why power rev was an issue back then.

 

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Too much effort for evidence which you will ignore because it hurts your case. Again, I had to teach you about how damage reduction worked 5 times and you still got it wrong.

 

 

No, I am right about stealth once again, as usual. You continue to be wrong about stealth. But seeing how you also are wrong about mobility, how damage reduction works, and how builds work, you probably are just a new player who doesnt understand all these things yet. Here is a tip, read up on the wiki and play around with it. See what you can figure out. Also, Willbender isnt like Shiro, and you clearly dont understand why power rev was an issue back then.

 

Show us your proof m8 , with your mobility race you tested and you  tried to disapprove Ragnar

 

The comminuty whines about  Dragonhunters can survive and reset , with stealth . And not how they pull  enemies in their traps as you claim

 

Show us , your video  m8

Edited August 21, 2021 by Noir.8561

[Leonidrex.5649]

why do you guys argue with unowen? 
if you give him screenshot of damage he will say its rigged, if you say you tested something he will say you lied.
he 100% thinks that stealth is impossible to use mid combat, and that stealth offers no survivability
as for the topic.
fighting a willbender feels like fighting a really bad power shiro, just less of everything

[Buran.3796]

10 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

 

 

Its a +1 build, play it like one.

   Pretends to be a +1 build, but I main power Herald and power Renegade in PvP and doesn't perform even remotely close to those. My Herald has similar mobility with more damage, more cc and much higher sustain (despite lacking condition cleanses). My Renegade has worse mobility but much more damage, AoE pressure and sustain, and deals very well with both physical and condition sustain.

 

   The problem with WB is that is supposed to trade sustain and/or support in exchange of mobility, but the mobility is weak due a lot of the new gap closers have either small reach than older ones (Judge's Intervention, sword #2, greatsword #3, Wings of Resolve) or clunky pauses wich make them mechanically inferior. So you end having a Guardian which isn't faster than DH, has way lower damage imput and less sustain than core Guardian or DH, and has less support than Firebrand. If you want to tank/support you will chose a core Guardian or FB instead; if you want to burst people you will run a burn core Guardian or DH instead, and if you want to +1 the Thief, the Revenant, the Ranger or the Mesmer are better choices. Even worse: the Harbringer is better +1 than the WB, since has better mobility aand can deal tons of damage from ranged distance.

 

   I must add also that I'm not mad about how currently the WB performs; is a beta and there's time to polish the things. I'm just saying that clearly underperforms, not only versus the Harbinger and the Virtuoso but also compared to previous specs and even the core profession, and this includes PvE. Is fun to play tho (even dying easily).

[UNOwen.7132]

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

why do you guys argue with unowen? 
if you give him screenshot of damage he will say its rigged, if you say you tested something he will say you lied.

 

 

Boy, are you still salty about having fallen for someone fabricating a screenshot? Its been over a year mate. Get over it. For those who dont know, about a year or two ago (I frankly dont remember) someone posted a screenshot showing that Shadowshot supposedly did 9k damage. What they didnt mention is that they unequipped several pieces of armour from the target to artifically lower their defense and make the damage higher than possible. Leonidrex, as the resident theif hater, of course fell hook line and sinker for that. And then I proved that the screenshot was fabricated, and Leonidrex just quietly stopped posting in that topic. Guess he didnt want to admit he fell for it, nor did he want to lie.

 

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

he 100% thinks that stealth is impossible to use mid combat, and that stealth offers no survivability
as for the topic.

Almost. Its impossible to use mid combat for thief other than for a quick backstab. Stealth does however objectively offer no survivability, weve been over this, your arguments did not hold up to scrutiny.

 

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

fighting a willbender feels like fighting a really bad power shiro, just less of everything

Yes. Its a +1/decap build like thief. Of course its weaker than Shiro, thief is weaker than Shiro.

[UNOwen.7132]

10 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Show us your proof m8 , with your mobility race you tested and you  tried to disapprove Ragnar

 

Nah. As I said, too much effort for you, who will just ignore the proof like you already have,

 

10 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

The comminuty whines about  Dragonhunters can survive and reset , with stealth . And not how they pull  enemies in their traps as you claim

 

I never said anything about pulling people into traps? Its about hiding cast times. And if they whine about DH surviving and reseting with stealth, then like you, they are terrible players who cant even get into gold. A good player would laugh at such a suggestion.

 

10 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Show us , your video  m8

 Since youll ignore any proof that hinders you? Nah.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

When do we actually get GIF’s on forums..

** Enter Michael eating popcorn GIF **

[UNOwen.7132]

50 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Pretends to be a +1 build, but I main power Herald and power Renegade in PvP and doesn't perform even remotely close to those. My Herald has similar mobility with more damage, more cc and much higher sustain (despite lacking condition cleanses). My Renegade has worse mobility but much more damage, AoE pressure and sustain, and deals very well with both physical and condition sustain.

 

Heralds mobility is much lower. Yes, Herald has more damage, more CC and much higher sustain, but thats because its mobility is lower. The gap between Power Herald and Thief in all 3 of those categories is even bigger, and thief is still good.

 

50 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   The problem with WB is that is supposed to trade sustain and/or support in exchange of mobility, but the mobility is weak due a lot of the new gap closers have either small reach than older ones (Judge's Intervention, sword #2, greatsword #3, Wings of Resolve) or clunky pauses wich make them mechanically inferior. So you end having a Guardian which isn't faster than DH, has way lower damage imput and less sustain than core Guardian or DH, and has less support than Firebrand. If you want to tank/support you will chose a core Guardian or FB instead; if you want to burst people you will run a burn core Guardian or DH instead, and if you want to +1 the Thief, the Revenant, the Ranger or the Mesmer are better choices. Even worse: the Harbringer is better +1 than the WB, since has better mobility aand can deal tons of damage from ranged distance.

 

Its really not though. People have tested it, on flat surfaces it matches or surpasses thief, and thats without stuff like judges intervention. The only part that has yet to be tested is vertical situations. But on maps where they dont matter, say capricorn, yeah Willbender is most likely just a better thief. Like, the most you could argue is that the difference in mobility to Revenant doesnt matter enough, but thats a hard argument to make when by that logic, no one should be picking thief either.

 

50 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I must add also that I'm not mad about how currently the WB performs; is a beta and there's time to polish the things. I'm just saying that clearly underperforms, not only versus the Harbinger and the Virtuoso but also compared to previous specs and even the core profession, and this includes PvE. Is fun to play tho (even dying easily).

People said the same about Revenant. It ended up being the best spec by a wide margin. Lets not ignore that this community, just like any other video game community, is awful at judging things early on.

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

People said the same about Revenant. It ended up being the best spec by a wide margin. Lets not ignore that this community, just like any other video game community, is awful at judging things early on.

   Rev pre release was heavily critized due the intention from ANet to bring it to the game with no weapon swap and two swappable legends with predefined skills (no chance to select and ditch based on personal preferences). The final version of the Revenant arrived to the game with weapon swap and buffed stat numbers to balance the lack of polish and the weakness of the core Revenent (since was delivered to being played as the Herald specialization from the begining). Also, Revenant was initially designed to work through the management of energy, with very few cooldowns. But happens that the Herald worked exactly on the oposite way with passive effects with maitenance cost but strong active effects with no energy cost. Current Rev is more convoluted due almost every skill has now both high energy cost + bloated cooldowns, so most of the damage comes from auto attacks.

[Noir.8561]

8 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Nah. As I said, too much effort for you, who will just ignore the proof like you already have,

 

 

I never said anything about pulling people into traps? Its about hiding cast times. And if they whine about DH surviving and reseting with stealth, then like you, they are terrible players who cant even get into gold. A good player would laugh at such a suggestion.

 

 Since youll ignore any proof that hinders you? Nah.

Show us proof that WB has the same mobility as Thief

Show us a video , with your findings

[lightDestroyer.1265]

13 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Too much effort for evidence which you will ignore because it hurts your case. Again, I had to teach you about how damage reduction worked 5 times and you still got it wrong.

 

 

No, I am right about stealth once again, as usual. You continue to be wrong about stealth. But seeing how you also are wrong about mobility, how damage reduction works, and how builds work, you probably are just a new player who doesnt understand all these things yet. Here is a tip, read up on the wiki and play around with it. See what you can figure out. Also, Willbender isnt like Shiro, and you clearly dont understand why power rev was an issue back then.

 

Dude you are so wrong about stealth.   I play ranger and use my stealth a lot to survive disengage or burst.  To say stealth is bad is absoultely dishonest.