Willbender f tier

[lightDestroyer.1265]

9 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Yeah you can. And yes it does. It cannot escape with stealth, because stealth is too slow and predictable, and just means the Harbinger gets to kill you for free. Seriously, stealth must be the most overrated thing in this game by a wide margin. Its good out of combat, but its trash in combat. 

Stealth is trash in combat?  No wonder people hate trapper rune and dh with it. 

[lightDestroyer.1265]

8 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Duelist spec beats +1 spec. Again, not the zinger you thought it was. Shiro Herald also kills thief in a 1v1. You dont 1v1 with +1 spec.

 

 

Sure, top tier players also share your incorrect idea that willbender doesnt do way more damage than thief. No they wont. The mobility is the key part. If it matches thieves, Willbender replaces thief. If not, its trickier to evaluate. Either way, people are evaluating it wrong.

Shiro herald is a roamer who tf told u that it is a duelist. 

[lightDestroyer.1265]

5 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

... no there isnt? D/P only has 1 evade that isnt the baseline evade. Daggerstorm. Withdraw isnt used (HiS is), sword 3 isnt used (D/P is the meta build), and Daggerstorm is the only evade used. Zealots defense has no equivalent. Focus has no equivalent if you feel like using it. And there are plenty more options. Also it meant virtues, yeah. The toolkit for survival is muuuuuuuuch better than thief. Thieves is by far the worst. Willbender might not be as durable as base guardian, but if willbender is a 4/10 on durability, thief is a 0/10.

 

 

Yeah, now realise youre +1ing, and the person youre +1ing for has things they want to stunbreak for. Consider you also have a teleport to set up the full damage. And then realise, 5k is still better than backstab usually is. GS2 will always do way more damage.

 

 

What happens in both is the same. You use your mobility to run away. If thief dodges and tries to stealth up and waits it out, the Reaper abuses the long cast time and the predictable motion of the thieves stealth to immediately punish it by killign the thief. Try to use stealth to survive or escape, and you die 100%. You are SEVERELY overestimating the sustain capacity that stealth provides, because the actual capacity is 0. Using stealth in combat is just asking to be killed.

 

Against a good player? 0 and 0 times. If you try to use stealth to slip out of a fight, then either A, you would've been able to slip out without stealth, or B, using stealth got you killed. The same is for the second ,either stealth did nothing, or it got you killed. Stealth is not part of theives survivability at all. To suggest its even remotely as important as teleporting is ludicrous. So no, not having stealth does not make anything less survivable. Not having blocks and invuln is. Believe me, if you asked thieves if they would replace stealth for block or invuln, every single one would immediately say "yes, why the bleeding hell wouldnt I want an upgrade?"

No wonder thief is in meta,  it is si trash after all. 

[lightDestroyer.1265]

4 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

It wont. What happens is you try to do that, the Reaper uses Shroud 4, and while you block the very first tick, the remaining 11 then shred you, and you die.

 

 

And there we have it. The only way to make stealth keep you alive is ... by using shadowstep to keep you alive. In which case, you would've been alive even if you didnt stealth. In fact, you probably couldve even survived without using shadow step if you didnt go for stealth. Pretty bad look innit?

 

 

Hah no. DH actually has proper survivability to deal with it.

 

 

Thief cant escape and chase either. Shortbow 5 has an initiative cost of 8, use it twice and youre dry for 8 seconds. They both have to choose. 

 

We should always be buffing things up now. Damage is just too low.

 

What is the great DH survivability u speak of?  Surely not stealth right? 

[Shao.7236]

17 hours ago, Darknicrofia.2604 said:

Shiro Rev also pisses out unblockables and has tracking attacks with built in evade frames, 0 of WB's attacks are unblockable, good assassin build... 😕

Knowing nobody plays Core or Axe based builds, your idea of pissing unblockables as Shiro is highly overrated.

 

@lightDestroyer.1265 Revenant in all forms is capable of being a duelist, someone telling you otherwise doesn't know how it works.

 

The profession design just allows it.

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Shao.7236

[frareanselm.1925]

Op seems to have a LTP problem, Gitguud dude!

[UNOwen.7132]

6 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

Stealth is trash in combat?  No wonder people hate trapper rune and dh with it. 

DH is a slightly different case. The class wasnt designed around stealth and neither were traps, so it bypasses multiple weaknesses and adds a few strengths like hiding cast times.

[Eugchriss.2046]

There are 2 people you shouldn't argue with on this forum because they are litteral Gods who knows better than everyone everytime. UNOwen is one of them.

[UNOwen.7132]

44 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

There are 2 people you shouldn't argue with on this forum because they are litteral Gods who knows better than everyone everytime. UNOwen is one of them.

Oh please. I just point out when people are saying nonsense. Im not even saying Willbender is definitely good, just that people are judging it wrong and that no one, to my knowledge, has actually tested the one thing that matters to judge the specs power. And that people are circlejerking the "oh people in ranked are doing badly on it, it must be a bad spec!!1!1!" nonsense, not realising that that is literally what happened to Revenant ... when Revenant was the by far best class and had to get borderline gutted just to be balanced.

[Exile.8160]

42 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Oh please. I just point out when people are saying nonsense. Im not even saying Willbender is definitely good, just that people are judging it wrong and that no one, to my knowledge, has actually tested the one thing that matters to judge the specs power. And that people are circlejerking the "oh people in ranked are doing badly on it, it must be a bad spec!!1!1!" nonsense, not realising that that is literally what happened to Revenant ... when Revenant was the by far best class and had to get borderline gutted just to be balanced.

 

And those people are pointing your nonsense just like you are to them its called having a discution. 

[Downstate.4697]

Valk amulet with sanctuary rune and elite signet is pretty troll.

[RedAvenged.5217]

5 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

Op seems to have a LTP problem, Gitguud dude!

Your right my bad

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Why are so many people surprised that willbender is underwhelming?

 

It's mobile. Mobile classes should be weak.

 

*files nails* 

[Math.5123]

15 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Oh no. Removing stealth does have an impact. Just not on their survivability. It would weaken the one part stealth is really, really good at. Being used out of combat to sneak past people, approach undetected, and enable backstab. However, for survivability? Yeah no stealth kittening sucks. Thats why you dont see top tier thieves using stealth in combat. If they use it, they use it after they already successfully disengaged, because otherwise the enemy will throw burst at them.

 

Hahaha, no. The reason its not picked is because all of your utility skills are better. Blinding Powder has a blind which is useful, and it does let you get a quick backstab off. But historically BP isnt even used either, and bandits defense still isnt picked. Why? Its not really a good block. They dont "replace their stealth with a block" because the block isnt good enough to replace Roll for Initiative. But again, if you asked thieves "would you give up stealth for good invuln or blocks for survivability", every single theif would say, without hesitation, "Yes. Of course. Id be stupid not to". Block is vastly superior.

You're so beyond delusional I can't decide if it's funny or sad. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

you guys need a reality check. or maybe i do, idk but my guess is that these underpowered specs are just for show and they will be released as broken as the last 2 expacs. there is no reason not to since this is the best way for anet to generate revenue.

[UNOwen.7132]

2 hours ago, Exile.8160 said:

 

And those people are pointing your nonsense just like you are to them its called having a discution. 

Tell that to them, not me. Somehow they think theyre infallible and that their expectations on Willbender must be 100% correct, despite history telling us its most likely not.

[voltaicbore.8012]

2 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

you guys need a reality check. or maybe i do, idk but my guess is that these underpowered specs are just for show and they will be released as broken as the last 2 expacs. there is no reason not to since this is the best way for anet to generate revenue.

 

I also believe there's a very good chance of this happening.

 

People are all "how dare ANet let beta specs into ranked!", while forgetting that PoF launched scourge in all its insane OP glory during an ongoing ranked season. It was nuts. Admittedly fun if you were playing the launch version of scourge, but the balance was insane. Hell, spellbreaker was so flexible I ran a stuuuupid hammer + rifle build  and notched a ton of kills and owned sidenodes at plat 1/2 through sheer cc power backed up by full counter and resistance.

 

If they don't launch the new specs in some OP form, my hope is that they pare down the overperforming PoF specs else to match the  vulnerability we're seeing in the current batch of beta specs. 

[Ragnar.4257]

39 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

 

I also believe there's a very good chance of this happening.

 

People are all "how dare ANet let beta specs into ranked!", while forgetting that PoF launched scourge in all its insane OP glory during an ongoing ranked season. It was nuts. Admittedly fun if you were playing the launch version of scourge, but the balance was insane. Hell, spellbreaker was so flexible I ran a stuuuupid hammer + rifle build  and notched a ton of kills and owned sidenodes at plat 1/2 through sheer cc power backed up by full counter and resistance.

 

If they don't launch the new specs in some OP form, my hope is that they pare down the overperforming PoF specs else to match the  vulnerability we're seeing in the current batch of beta specs. 

Right, if they fix WB up at the same rate they fixed up Renegade, we've got nothing to worry about.

 

I look forward to playing WB in 2024.

[Noir.8561]

16 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

DH is a slightly different case. The class wasnt designed around stealth and neither were traps, so it bypasses multiple weaknesses and adds a few strengths like hiding cast times.

You mean , it gave them more survibility with Stealth . That's why people whine about it

That means that stealth is a good survival mechanic , don't you say ?

 

Give more damage to Willbenders  , in this "powerdip meta"

Edited August 19, 2021 by Noir.8561

[Stand The Wall.6987]

2 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

 

I also believe there's a very good chance of this happening.

 

People are all "how dare ANet let beta specs into ranked!", while forgetting that PoF launched scourge in all its insane OP glory during an ongoing ranked season. It was nuts. Admittedly fun if you were playing the launch version of scourge, but the balance was insane. Hell, spellbreaker was so flexible I ran a stuuuupid hammer + rifle build  and notched a ton of kills and owned sidenodes at plat 1/2 through sheer cc power backed up by full counter and resistance.

 

If they don't launch the new specs in some OP form, my hope is that they pare down the overperforming PoF specs else to match the  vulnerability we're seeing in the current batch of beta specs. 

i'll eat my words and be very surprised if the new classes are released as wet noodles. as a side note i hope they abandon the drawback (forget the term they used) method of preventing OP mechanics and just learn to balance things right lol. it sucks that the pvp/ wvw balance team can't change mechanics but most of the problems can be changed with number tweaks imo.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Guardians are good , L2P

 

15 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Oh please. I just point out when people are saying nonsense. Im not even saying Willbender is definitely good, just that people are judging it wrong and that no one, to my knowledge, has actually tested the one thing that matters to judge the specs power. And that people are circlejerking the "oh people in ranked are doing badly on it, it must be a bad spec!!1!1!" nonsense, not realising that that is literally what happened to Revenant ... when Revenant was the by far best class and had to get borderline gutted just to be balanced.

(whats the plan?

force them to release "releaxed" specs , and ethen demand the company to buff every spec from everyx-pack , when the ext Bunker arIse? And if the dont , we will whine about powercreep ?

Will you help me with my Enginner , when the times comes , my brah ? 😛

 

editt - I hope they dont come up with a blogpost saying , this and this spec from that expasnion "we think its fun to play againstt and we will buff it , or its current high damage seems fair  because of tradeoff" and such silly argumenst)

Edited August 19, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[UNOwen.7132]

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

You mean , it gave them more survibility with Stealth . That's why people whine about it

That means that stealth is a good survival mechanic , don't you say ?

 

Thats not why people whine about DH Trapper. They whine because it lets the DH set up heavy damage they cant react to. Its the same

 

2 hours ago, Noir.8561 said:

Give more damage to Willbenders  , in this "powerdip meta"

If you give everyone more damage, sure. And if Willbender matches thief? Give thief a lot of damage and survivability back. Yknow, all of those that they lost due to mobility.

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Thats not why people whine about DH Trapper. They whine because it lets the DH set up heavy damage they cant react to. Its the same

 

If you give everyone more damage, sure. And if Willbender matches thief? Give thief a lot of damage and survivability back. Yknow, all of those that they lost due to mobility.

Nope sorry, they whine because Guardian can escape and reset the battle  .

Not because they get pulled into the traps .

 

Thief has the dodge/evade +36% damage reduction + Weakness on dodge + Stealth  + Blinds + utilities  to avoid any aoe areas /escape

Maybe transform the 30% damage reduction traits into 30% damage instead

(Backstab will not be  affected  , because as you said "set up heavy damage they cant react to") ?

 

Why not increase the damage of Willbender ?
Rev does more dps , but still we see more Thief in Tournaments . 

 

 

 

Edit part 2:

Should  stacking 10x Poison , creates "Healing Exhaustion" debuff on the Target for 3 MIN(minutes) , but you the person who applied does -20% LESS damage to them ? It will be their  job to "tag/soften" the whole enemy team,  between bases and leave someone else to Kill them

More roamers , more stacking debuff , forcing you to send more roamers to kill the roamers etc ...

 

The same could apply for enemy team mobility (they cannot benefit from swiftness) , and in the long run they wont be able to react fast nought between bases

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Noir.8561

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, Noir.8561 said:

Nope sorry, they whine because Guardian can escape and reset the battle  .

Not because they get pulled into the traps .

 

Then theyre bad players who dont know how to cleave or predict AoEs. Thats literally not what makes trapper rune good on DH. Hiding casts is.

 

1 hour ago, Noir.8561 said:

Thief has the dodge/evade +36% damage reduction + Weakness on dodge + Stealth  + Blinds + utilities  to avoid any aoe areas /escape

 

Weve been over this multiple times. The damage reduction you say is W R O N G. Its not even remotely close to that, even ignoring you just assume that wekaness is always there. Stealth is useless for defense. Blind is ok but you wont be doing that when running away. The only utility htat matters is mobility. 

 

1 hour ago, Noir.8561 said:

Maybe transform the 30% damage reduction traits into 30% damage instead

(Backstab will not be  affected  , because as you said "set up heavy damage they cant react to") ?

 

Belive me, any thief would immediately take that trait. The damage reduction is not very useful, especially since you still get the math completely wrong. 30% damage would be nuts.

 

1 hour ago, Noir.8561 said:

Why not increase the damage of Willbender ?
Rev does more dps , but still we see more Thief in Tournaments . 

 

 

Revs mobility is far below both. And its too early to tell if Willbenders damage needs to be upped or not. But if the mobiltiy matches thief, the damage ahs to match too. Which means massive damage nerfs to Willbender, or massive damage buffs to thief.

[Noir.8561]

7 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

 

Then theyre bad players who dont know how to cleave or predict AoEs. Thats literally not what makes trapper rune good on DH. Hiding casts is.

 

 

Weve been over this multiple times. The damage reduction you say is W R O N G. Its not even remotely close to that, even ignoring you just assume that wekaness is always there. Stealth is useless for defense. Blind is ok but you wont be doing that when running away. The only utility htat matters is mobility. 

 

 

Belive me, any thief would immediately take that trait. The damage reduction is not very useful, especially since you still get the math completely wrong. 30% damage would be nuts.

 

 

Revs mobility is far below both. And its too early to tell if Willbenders damage needs to be upped or not. But if the mobiltiy matches thief, the damage ahs to match too. Which means massive damage nerfs to Willbender, or massive damage buffs to thief.

Lets increase the damage of Willbender firstly , because they don't have the Survibility/Mobility of Thief.

And the 30% damage of thief , "will be on the table"

 

I am sorry , but you are wrong . The  community thinks Stealth and that Runes , offer Survibility and allow to reset . They are not whining about the nerfed damage of the traps

I assume , you are a new player here , so i forgive you 🙂

Edited August 20, 2021 by Noir.8561