I think allowing mounts in the Lab was a mistake

It was really fun at first. It's a nice catch up mechanic, being able to fly down to exactly where the zerg is - totally fun and at first I though it was great. Now that I've run a few labs with different commanders, I've changed my mind. The problem is that not all players - for whatever reason - have mounts. I've seen lots of people gamely trying to keep up with the zerg but always falling behind and missing most of the mobs/doors. I myself have been caught way behind the zerg because I couldn't get out of combat with the rest of them, and that just becomes a spiral of fail unless there are others in the same boat with you to help clear. The last Lab I joined had a commander that was mount rushing all the doors and ignoring everything in between and leaving people behind in the dust without a care - I didn't stay long in that one. Mount engage abilities are only a slight annoyance, but can still get aggravating. I feel bad for using my mount to my advantage when I see others not able to.

I'm just finding the atmosphere a little more selfish so far. And yes, I know it's not even been 24 hours. I thought about sitting on this a little more until I've lived with it longer, but it got more and more annoying as the day went on. People are figuring out how to use the mounts to their own advantage. This is all separate from the mount race in the Lab (which I like and it's fun, but I would give it up in a heartbeat to get mounts out of the maze and achievements). This is an event for core Tyria, it should be equally accessible for all players at the core level. Don't take this as a chance to tell people to buy the upgrades. Maybe they are returning players and just haven't yet, or maybe a new player is still trying to level to 80. Maybe it is a new F2P player and this mount stampede is the impression they are getting of the game. Why they don't have a mount is not the point at all - the point is that we're not all on a level playing field for a core festival event that is accessible from level 1.

So that's where I sit on the issue. I'm sure that there are going to be many, many people who love it to death, so tell me why. What do mounts being enabled in the maze add to the experience?

I haven't played yet, but I also think it's weird to allow mounts there. They could have allowed gliding, to go down from the platform, but mounts seems too much. I'll see later.

As I told another else where I believe it's an enticement ploy, makes alotta sense. Do i feel it's right? I'm 50/50 on it to be honest. i understand why anet would do it.Do i think its bit of a bad idea at same time? yes, I kinda do.It is why i didn't want to argue with the guy over it firmly, because i understand his/her concern and sympathy. I'm even a mount owner. So yea like i say, I'm 50/50 on it. Think though for holiday events some compassion should be shown considering it mainly takes place in the free content of core tyria.Now if there is an equal event that f2ps can get involved in with an equal reward without suffering no more or less than the event mounts are roaming in seems fair to me.

This is just my humble opinion and we all got one.

You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

@Zoria.1392 said:You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

I agree but you know how it is in the gaming industry just like DLC on offline and online games.

@TEKnowledgy.1760 said:As I told another else where I believe it's an enticement ploy, makes alotta sense. Do i feel it's right? I'm 50/50 on it to be honest. i understand why anet would do it.Do i think its bit of a bad idea at same time? yes, I kinda do.

Yeah, I understand why Anet would want to get people to really, really want the expansion to get the mounts, but ... just not in the lab. They are everywhere else and you can't avoid seeing people using them and having fun with them. This is a holiday event, let people do mass murder in Halloween town as equals :)

This is pretty much what I expected would happen when I read that mounts were enabled in the labyrinth, though I was a little bit curious to see if it might not. I see it often with daily event maps, though in that case it's less about catching up and more about players using the mount attack to kill an entire wave of mobs. I haven't tried the mount skills yet in the labyrinth so I sincerely hope they don't come close to killing them. All in all, I hope players will have the decency to wait for the tail of a zerg to catch up before opening the doors. Or maybe we'll start seeing some groups labeling themselves as "no mount" specifically to cater to players without.

There are quite a few no mount squads in LFG, though (on EU). :) I love those.

@Shaaba.5672 said:

@TEKnowledgy.1760 said:As I told another else where I believe it's an enticement ploy, makes alotta sense. Do i feel it's right? I'm 50/50 on it to be honest. i understand why anet would do it.Do i think its bit of a bad idea at same time? yes, I kinda do.

Like I said before if wasn't based entirely in the free content i wouldn't even be here in this thread but I think it is a bit wrong even if its unintentionally wrong sounds like it was just an idea tossed into game without alot of future insight or even short term insight ya know sounds bit rushed as its game breaking to f2p players.

When comes to core true tyria stuff like champs events vistas jps i will defend mounts firmly but holidays? Come on anet get head from rump now just rubbing mount rumps in f2ps faces and just literally breaking the game for them. The rest i defend it is different subject, that stuff can be done all year round no body missing out on anything if they time things right and plan ahead (events champs world bosses etc)

@Glacial.9516 said:I haven't tried the mount skills yet in the labyrinth so I sincerely hope they don't come close to 1hitting them.They don't, but they can reposition them and the raptor can scoop them together for an AEO burst to take them down very quickly. That was the most annoying thing I saw. Not fast enough to shut other people out, but it definitely can decrease the opportunity to tag.

Commanders can run their zergs as they wish. Just find a good commander who only runs with aoe swiftness.

Honestly, I use mounts when I'm gathering candies of looking for those pumpkins, but while moving around with a squad I try not to use them, though they aren't game breaking, so the difference doesn't exist really, at least not as long as the commander doesn't use them to move around the laberynth.

Yeah, the problem is they are using them to move through the maze and clear doors before non mounted players can get to them and while they are pulling aggro that the mounted players just run past. It was a bad call on Anets part to allow them in there. People shouldn't HAVE to use lfg just to find a map that is non-mount friendly for a holiday event. I agree with OP 100% here.

@PookieDaWombat.6209 said:Yeah, the problem is they are using them to move through the maze and clear doors before non mounted players can get to them and while they are pulling aggro that the mounted players just run past. It was a bad call on Anets part to allow them in there. People shouldn't HAVE to use lfg just to find a map that is non-mount friendly for a holiday event. I agree with OP 100% here.

As long as the commanders doesn't use them, it will make the squad members move at their pace, now if a few guys get ahead of themselves with the doors, it is the commanders's role to put them back in line or politely ask them to stop, if they aren't part of the squad (and if they don't agree, well, you can cease being polite). As far as I've seen today, there wasn't any real trouble, it all depends on the kind of commander who make runs at the lab.

I've not encountered this at all in my runs yesterday. As I already expexcted pre patch, the mounts were mostly used by people to get from the WP to the squad and for hopping out for quick gathering/pumpkins and getting back to the squad.

Given the timers on the doors it's more efficient to kill everything on the way between doors rather than skipping from door to door, which I suspect to be the reason for the above behaviour (which is good).

But maybe I was just lucky/on the right maps...

@Mea.5491 said:There are quite a few no mount squads in LFG, though (on EU). :) I love those.

How are they enforcing that?

@Shaaba.5672 said:It was really fun at first. It's a nice catch up mechanic, being able to fly down to exactly where the zerg is - totally fun and at first I though it was great. Now that I've run a few labs with different commanders, I've changed my mind. The problem is that not all players - for whatever reason - have mounts. I've seen lots of people gamely trying to keep up with the zerg but always falling behind and missing most of the mobs/doors. I myself have been caught way behind the zerg because I couldn't get out of combat with the rest of them, and that just becomes a spiral of fail unless there are others in the same boat with you to help clear. The last Lab I joined had a commander that was mount rushing all the doors and ignoring everything in between and leaving people behind in the dust without a care - I didn't stay long in that one. Mount engage abilities are only a slight annoyance, but can still get aggravating. I feel bad for using my mount to my advantage when I see others not able to.

I'm just finding the atmosphere a little more selfish so far. And yes, I know it's not even been 24 hours. I thought about sitting on this a little more until I've lived with it longer, but it got more and more annoying as the day went on. People are figuring out how to use the mounts to their own advantage. This is all separate from the mount race in the Lab (which I like and it's fun, but I would give it up in a heartbeat to get mounts out of the maze and achievements). This is an event for core Tyria, it should be equally accessible for all players at the core level. Don't take this as a chance to tell people to buy the upgrades. Maybe they are returning players and just haven't yet, or maybe a new player is still trying to level to 80. Maybe it is a new F2P player and this mount stampede is the impression they are getting of the game. Why they don't have a mount is not the point at all - the point is that we're not all on a level playing field for a core festival event that is accessible from level 1.

So that's where I sit on the issue. I'm sure that there are going to be many, many people who love it to death, so tell me why. What do mounts being enabled in the maze add to the experience?

But here is the thing, today my friend was commander in the Lab.We had someone say that he was the best commander that they had all day and people were really happy with him and the only thing I recognized that he did differently to many other commanders.

• He hardly ever got on his mount as commander, occasionally only using the raptor to group together enemies but not for transport. This allowed for people to actually run through and hit things. I saw commanders ignoring the mobs in between just b-lining straight for the doors. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU RUN LAB FOR MAXIMUM LOOT. This allows people with mounts to wander a little more freely because they can get back, but doesn't cause problem for people with no mounts.
• He waited patiently at doors for all of the squad to be within enough range to start the doors, kicking people who just started opening doors selfishly.

It's not necessarily the mounts that are the entirety of the problem, it's particular people using them. The ones who were already selfish have found ways to be more selfish and this attitude sucks but how else did they get their riches in the first place.You got to find the right Commander, one who doesn't use their mount because this event was designed entirely around being on foot and therefore to get maximum loot gain, you need to be on foot.

I think it's bad too, I like the race but for just farming lab it doesn't bring good group cohesion and a lot of mobs get missed, I saw someone yell out earlier "kill everything it gives loot" but it just seems like a race to doors, at least that's how I feel about it.

Edit: if they really wanted to sell it, they should allow a "trial" in the lab where everyone can use em. I still wouldn't like it though. The race is fun tho. And yes I own mounts and both expansions and as much as I hate mount free zones this is the one place I think it really really should be.

It would be really nice to have some borrowable mounts in there.

(same in the Guild Hall tbh)

Also I rarely take care with commanders on Lab maps. I really just do door events as I come across them.

I expect this will sort itself out in a few days. In my experience, the cooldown on the doors is simply too long to make mount-based door rushing a sustainable farming strategy for the lab. Much better for the commander to run on foot for more mob tagging, and for the zerg tail to use their mounts for catching up.

BTW, dropping off the side of the labyrinth will teleport you to the entrance ledge, from where you can glide down to the commander tag, which I find a better strategy for catching up, once you've fallen behind by a lot and have loads of mobs between you and the tag.

Loot is in the trash, not the doors.

So far the Lab farm trains I have seen barely have people using mounts except for the race. They only use mounts to catch up to others. People just go on the murder spree, opening doors and killing the chainsaw skeleton.

@Zoria.1392 said:You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

Your friend with the Lexus isn't manipulating you into buying a Lexus.

I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I say you got in really horrible squads.The 4 or so I've been in today, almost no one used any mounts unless they had to catch up which I say is 100% fair.

The commander would kill on the way to the next door, but some people like me are getting the candy corn nodes along the way or the carved pumpkins. If no mounts was allowed I would've been left behind (once again no one was using mounts unless to catch up) which even then isn't fun.So I personally agree to it.If you were in a group where the commander was just mounting from door to door, then I would've just left those groups as that doesn't seem right.This is my 1st halloween on this game and I do know I wouldn't enjoy it if I have to keep playing catch up because either everyone got all those pumpkins/nodes before I got there or flat out don't want them at all when I do.

I was just thinking about posting the exact same topic. general I don't think mounts in the Lab are a problem, and in some situations I've found them very useful. But they are making the (existing) problem of impatient and inconsiderate commanders much worse.

I was on several different Lab maps last night (due to having to leave and come back to the game several times) and on some there was a definite pattern of the Commander hopping on their raptor the instant one door ended, rushing to the next and opening it as soon as they got there. Which left everyone who didn't have PoF, everyone who was in combat when the door ended, and everyone who wasn't quick enough to mount up, trailing behind.

Whenever it happened I posted my usual message of "Can we please wait for most of the squad to arrive before opening doors?" in squad chat. Once it worked and the commander did wait for people to catch up, twice I was ignored and once I got a series of whispers informing me that "lazy freeloaders" who can't be bothered to keep up with the game (which I assume means buy PoF) shouldn't expect everyone else to wait around for them. (For the record I have PoF and 4/5 mounts unlocked, but I was in combat when the commander raced off.) The end result was that I left the last 3 maps for one with a less inconsiderate commander.

I realise people opening doors ahead of the squad is not new, but I feel like it's different when it's the commander doing it. The Lab is supposed to be a group activity, and if you're claiming to be the one leading the group you need to make sure they're actually able to follow you - not treat it like a contest which you somehow win if you can have a door 1/2 done (or completely done if it's 1 vet) before most of your squad gets there.

Unfortunately I don't know what Anet could do to fix the situation - if they remove mounts or restrict them to races there would be a lot of complaints, and we'd lose them at times when they're genuinely useful too.

I think this is a problem players need to solve - if someone (commander or otherwise) is preventing you from doing the door events then switch to another map (there are plenty to choose from). Then everyone wins - you will (hopefully) get a better map and the person who apparently wants to beat all the doors solo will get a private map to do it in.