I think allowing mounts in the Lab was a mistake - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I think allowing mounts in the Lab was a mistake

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  • Just tried the race again. I only saw one or two other players in the Lab and they did not participate in the race. The race started and I was the only player. Around the second corner or so, there was a champion Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, and then the champion Horror joined in on the same corner. How am I supposed to solo two Champion monsters? It seems like there's something I'm just not getting here.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @evilsofa.7296 said:
    Just tried the race again. I only saw one or two other players in the Lab and they did not participate in the race. The race started and I was the only player. Around the second corner or so, there was a champion Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, and then the champion Horror joined in on the same corner. How am I supposed to solo two Champion monsters? It seems like there's something I'm just not getting here.

    Lots of dodging. Oh and praying to one of the gods, because if you're alone... that's... I'm sorry.

  • Tachenon.5270Tachenon.5270 Member ✭✭✭

    Mad King says, PONDER: why not two races, one for the mounted and one for pedestrians?

  • Ameepa.6793Ameepa.6793 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @Tachenon.5270 said:
    Mad King says, PONDER: why not two races, one for the mounted and one for pedestrians?

    I bet the pedestriars would still complain that it's not fair that they cannot do the mounted one. Or actually that the mounted one even excists. Like in that other thread.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ameepa.6793 said:

    @Tachenon.5270 said:
    Mad King says, PONDER: why not two races, one for the mounted and one for pedestrians?

    I bet the pedestriars would still complain that it's not fair that they cannot do the mounted one. Or actually that the mounted one even excists. Like in that other thread.

    Honestly, I can see the complaints still due to how many of them can lock you in place or slow you down and do a lot of damage and so on and so forth in the labyrinth where people would just say it seems impossible.

  • Activision is trying to get a patent on this method of promoting microtransaction.

    You put players who payed extra for in-game items with players who didn't, in order to promote the sell of that item.
    The player who doesn't have the item will want it.
    The player who does have the item will feel good about having the edge (or looking nicer) and spend more money to get what makes them feel good.

    People with mounts are the advertisement. People without mounts are the target audience for the advertisement.

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zoria.1392 said:
    You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

    You are talking out of personal experience. See this from a business perspective. You would do the same if you’re not a total donkey.

  • TwoGhosts.6790TwoGhosts.6790 Member ✭✭✭

    For some reason this thread has become more about the race than the inclusion of mounts in the Lab in general.
    In the race thread I posted this, which is also how I feel in general about the inclusion of mounts in the Lab.

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    I think it's cool that they've updated the festival this year in a number of ways, including new activities designed mainly for players who've *paid for PoF. It's great that they have something else to really use their new mounts with.
    I don't have PoF yet, but I think I'll try the race on my DD just for a laugh :-)
    ~TG
    PS - this issue... not an issue. Grow up.

    [* I've added the emphasis here, because I think it's important; they've paid for something and I think it's cool that they get to use it in as much of the game as possible. Yes, I've paid for the core content (and HoT), including the festival content, but I've had several years of experiencing this content without mounts. In other words, I've had my money's worth from this content already, and I think it's perfectly acceptable for old content like this to be updated and aligned with new content. I think any attitude that opposes this is pretty naive, churlish and childish.]

    For what it's worth, I've been in the Lab now a few times this year, as a pedestrian, and I've never felt that those with mounts have any 'advantage' over me, or that I'm excluded from participating fully in a run through a map because those with mounts are faster than me. In point of fact, I think I've actually had better rewards because those people rushing to the next door on mounts aren't really tagging anything en route, and I always manage to get to the next door in time to participate and get credit. After a while, I even noticed people using their mounts less and less; presumably because the hassle of mounting/dismounting wasn't worth it in the end.
    ~TG

  • Yamazuki.6073Yamazuki.6073 Member ✭✭✭

    Depends on what's being done, those farming bags generally are in combat nearly the entire time, so mounting to get ahead rarely happens unless they fall behind and had nothing to keep them in combat resulting in less loot for them anyways. Having a mount seems to only matter when you fall behind or die and WP as well as have a Griffon to instantly get back. However, getting rid of mounts don't equalize things, mobility would then be determined by who had faster classes/setups.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Happy to say that last night I got onto a map with a very good commander. After we'd finished a door or whatever he would hop on his raptor, leap over the group in the direction we were going and then dismount and start clearing mobs. Also targeted carving pumpkins and candy corn nodes along the way for those who wanted them.

    IMO that was a perfect use of mounts, especially since he was playing an asura so even with the tag he could be hard to spot. But the leaping raptor was like a giant arrow to show where we were going. I think it also made the point to the rest of the group (even more effectively than not using mounts) that it's better for everyone to use mounts to catch up and then dismount to keep the squad together.

    "Hard knocks, bad luck, been knocked down,
    You got back up, rise up, shine on, keep on fighting, the war is almost done...But then I hear you're gone.
    I feel, when the lights go down, you are still here, all you hold dear remains.
    Your star never fades."

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    This is not a problem of having mounts in the labyrinth. This is a problem of n00b commanders who are doing it wrong. Running pass mobs with a mount and making a beeline to doors is leaving loot behind. Doors take too long to respawn to benefit from zooming around at maximum speed. Heck even just running around on foot is too fast for the door respawn rate. Anyone on a mount is not tagging and therefore not getting the loot.

    Before commanding a squad this weekend I wanted to see what it was like to go in myself and use a mount. Once at the ground floor I spent so much time being agroed that it was nearly impossible to mount up. So yeah, I am guessing people are doing it for the novelty because you spend most of your time trying to be able to mount and then when mounted can not tag random mobs.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • sacredninja.5236sacredninja.5236 Member ✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @Limodriver.4106 said:
    why ppl feel sorry for the one dont buy expac to help support the game?

    Agreed, had no one bought hOT and/or PoF or spend money on gems, we might not be able to enjoy events like this at all!

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    Excuse me? No, we are not irrelevant, good commanders only tag up if they know an event fully and the best things to do in it (unfortunately not everyone follows that rule). Sure, go ahead and mount up to prove your "point" as you will not be able to tag anything while mounted and there is a good chance you will die from something while spamming the x key.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Sithis.3564Sithis.3564 Member ✭✭✭

    Buy the expansion. Support the game you play.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @evilsofa.7296 said:
    Just tried the race again. I only saw one or two other players in the Lab and they did not participate in the race. The race started and I was the only player. Around the second corner or so, there was a champion Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, and then the champion Horror joined in on the same corner. How am I supposed to solo two Champion monsters? It seems like there's something I'm just not getting here.

    Do not try and solo both of them at once. Even a squad needs to be careful when they are both in that corner at the same time.

    When I get to that corner I will open the door with the skeleton first and hope people hold off on the viscount. If the viscount is not out the skeleton will go fast but if both are out people never have time for the skeleton and he will be there forever causing an annoyance. Steve is just .... Steve. Pick the worst place on the map for him to be and he will show up.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • kitten Steve!!!!

  • Fluffball.8307Fluffball.8307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    You are the kind of person who ruins the events.
    PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

    No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

    Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Limodriver.4106 said:
    why ppl feel sorry for the one dont buy expac to help support the game?

    Firstly because if they're new bad experiences like this might put them off buying the game.

    But also because it does not just affect people who don't have PoF. Many of the examples in this topic are from people who do have the expansion and have the mounts unlocked but were unable to use them when the commander did because they were in combat, and then couldn't get out of combat to catch up because they had to fight their way through all the mobs the other people had skipped on their mounts.

    "Hard knocks, bad luck, been knocked down,
    You got back up, rise up, shine on, keep on fighting, the war is almost done...But then I hear you're gone.
    I feel, when the lights go down, you are still here, all you hold dear remains.
    Your star never fades."

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fluffball.8307 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    You are the kind of person who ruins the events.
    PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

    No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

    Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

    Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

    Believe it or not, there ARE people who decide to troll lab shards. The ones who find an organized lab and do whatever they can to unorganize it using the rubric of "you do not own the instance". You can say you have an argument if you are just opposed to the one person with a commander tag but when just you and your mate oppose a 50 person squad that is a different story.

    Congrats, this is the one thing I hate about this time of year. I will gladly lend my tag to organize a lab in my precious free time but I do not have time for the kittens who want to mess with everyone else in the game.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    You are the kind of person who ruins the events.
    PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

    No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

    Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

    Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

    Believe it or not, there ARE people who decide to troll lab shards. The ones who find an organized lab and do whatever they can to unorganize it using the rubric of "you do not own the instance". You can say you have an argument if you are just opposed to the one person with a commander tag but when just you and your mate oppose a 50 person squad that is a different story.

    Congrats, this is the one thing I hate about this time of year. I will gladly lend my tag to organize a lab in my precious free time but I do not have time for the kittens who want to mess with everyone else in the game.

    If PvE Commanders are so useless, I shudder to imagine all the people who would not be at the mastery levels they are at today because of the times people were relying on said PvE Commanders trying to farm their core tyria masteries on Triple Trouble and other open world PvE content.
    PvE Commanders bring organization to situations and set the pace, if they didn't exist I can assure you there would be a lot of events that would go failed. PvE Commanders paid 300 gold just like every other Commander from all aspects of the game and use that tag to express that they have enough knowledge in a particular area to lead a group of people through it.

    And yes, you are ruining the event by having this bad attitude about Commanders who tag up, get people together and lead them. You trying to act like you are somehow better than them because they are volunteering to lead something to increase chances of success, yet that somehow makes them irrelevant.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Have to disagree here. The mounts fit well into the labyrinth. Have run a number of different ones and agree with those above that state they work well to allow people to catch back up or take side steps for things like pumpkins and corns. The race thru the lab was also a nice touch and adds an event pause for people wanting the race or for others to take a quick break. Haven't seen the situation where unmounted people are left in the dust since most people want to clear the mobs along the way for their loot.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    You are the kind of person who ruins the events.
    PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

    No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

    Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

    Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

    Believe it or not, there ARE people who decide to troll lab shards. The ones who find an organized lab and do whatever they can to unorganize it using the rubric of "you do not own the instance". You can say you have an argument if you are just opposed to the one person with a commander tag but when just you and your mate oppose a 50 person squad that is a different story.

    Congrats, this is the one thing I hate about this time of year. I will gladly lend my tag to organize a lab in my precious free time but I do not have time for the kittens who want to mess with everyone else in the game.

    If PvE Commanders are so useless, I shudder to imagine all the people who would not be at the mastery levels they are at today because of the times people were relying on said PvE Commanders trying to farm their core tyria masteries on Triple Trouble and other open world PvE content.
    PvE Commanders bring organization to situations and set the pace, if they didn't exist I can assure you there would be a lot of events that would go failed. PvE Commanders paid 300 gold just like every other Commander from all aspects of the game and use that tag to express that they have enough knowledge in a particular area to lead a group of people through it.

    And yes, you are ruining the event by having this bad attitude about Commanders who tag up, get people together and lead them. You trying to act like you are somehow better than them because they are volunteering to lead something to increase chances of success, yet that somehow makes them irrelevant.

    Exactly and thanks, how many people would even think of doing TT if they did not see a tag, especially one giving detailed information?

    True, WVW commanders have to do more during the action but it is pretty analogous. You will always have people popping tags because they can, but in both PVE and WVW the person with the commander tag is trusted to know about the event(s).

    Using the lab as an example, people not using the tag as a status symbol do not stay tagged up the entire time they are logged in. How long they stay tagged up varies but eventually they burn out for the day.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • nekretaal.6485nekretaal.6485 Member ✭✭✭

    The maze is great this year.

    Previously, you might run into situation where all of the doors were down and all of the mobs were dead. The addition of the race breaks that up this year. It's something extra to do. In 2012, there was a mob boss in the hut on the hill on the middle of the maze. When that guy was removed, there was always a periodic boring downtime.

    The mounts are fantastic for people who fell back from the group because they went to carve a pumpkin or something. The people with gliding or a griffon can use their glide to "start" where they want in the maze, which is really nice too.

  • Fluffball.8307Fluffball.8307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    You are the kind of person who ruins the events.
    PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

    No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

    Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

    Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

    Your'e not understanding my point. People are saying that mounts are fine because the commander can command and tell people what to do. Except NO THEY CAN'T, and if a commander starts issuing orders, the zerg is going to immediately fall apart in a hostile map chat. No one in their right mind is going to listen to a PvE commander bossing people around in a dang farming event.

    I have absolutely zero respect for PvE commanders outside of teaching newbies TT, but that's not the debate here.

  • @Zoria.1392 said:
    You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

    I wouldn't call it manipulation to purchase the expansion, I'd call it allowing people to use the features they paid for when buying the expansion. You know there would be just as much QQ if you couldn't use the mounts.

  • Sign up for the Lab Race (like in Amnoon) mounts are available during the race period only (and if you stray too far off the course, you force dismount). Otherwise...(in my best Edna Mode voice) "No Mounts!" But that's just one guys opinion. :)

    Always willing to help others if I am able. Catch me in-game. I'm a dirty-casual with 2 kids in college, so I am on at odd times. lol

  • Fluffball.8307Fluffball.8307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I prefer the free market approach; it's (WAY) less profitable to skip mobs on mounts, so allow people to do what they want.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, people could always create a "No mounts" squad in LFG. Why should the rest of us have to do without them?

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Actually, I plan on putting "no mounts" in my lfg listings if they become a problem. I do not understand the appeal of them in the lab myself (no tagging while mounted and once dismounted you are usually agroed so much it is hard to remount) so only see them creating problems as the squad becomes strung out over the map.

    The upside is such a listing would attract people who want a no-mounts squad on an organized map. The downside is it would also attract trolls who would mount and follow along just because the squad is not using mounts.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Neural.1824 said:

    @Endless Soul.5178 said:

    @Mea.5491 said:
    There are quite a few no mount squads in LFG, though (on EU). :) I love those.

    How are they enforcing that?

    I doubt they have to. The EU servers don't have the socially destructive behaviors that are seen on the NA servers so often.

    EU LFG: "no mounts Lab run"
    EU Players: "ok, I'll find another one"

    NA LFG: "no mounts Lab run"
    (some)NA Players: "I'm going to ride my mount, open doors early, and do everything I can to ruin your fun."

    If it were not for the huge pings sometimes I am tempted to just roll a f2p account for those more civilized servers.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Celldrax.2849Celldrax.2849 Member ✭✭✭

    Eh, all the commanders I've seen so far have kept on foot.

    I jump in and out of the zerg on my mounts every now and then to do some doors or bosses, but that's my choice as an individual player (who isn't part of the squad) and one I should continue to be allowed.

    It's also possible some commanders may even specify mounts as necessary when putting a group together. And I do realise that automatically excludes some players, but that's just how things go in these types of games sometimes. Not much anyone can really do about it.

  • @CETheLucid.3964 said:

    @Zoria.1392 said:
    You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

    Your friend with the Lexus isn't manipulating you into buying a Lexus.

    My friend with a lexus isn't driving past me whilst I have to walk a mile to the shops to get groceries, it's mental manipulation playing to haves and have nots mentality and this is an incredibly bad analogy.

    And I see why they did it, I haven't had many issues with people using mounts outside of the people who literally speed off to open doors on there own to start blowing up the mobs whilst people are trying to not use them to be somewhat fair and kind to the new and f2p players who might be experiencing the lab for the first time.

    So colour me indifferent, I just wish they'd atleast disable the mount action skills so people can't halfshot the trash out of petty spite.

  • Vyrulisse.1246Vyrulisse.1246 Member ✭✭✭

    Easy fix is to put NPC Raptors in the middle area for people without mounts to use temporarily. Infact that may be more enticing if more people get a feel for mounts and decide they really want them. Doubt most people played the demos after all. It's better reinforcement than making people feel like garbage that they don't have it.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I did a couple lab runs today, both zergiing and leading (I must be getting too much like an adult, the lab opens Tuesday and I did not command in it until today). Anyway, people were not using mounts much but I REALLY wish anet had put the race somewhere else. When I am in the lab I am there for loot, not "ok, we are all going to stop now and do the race" .... I could not figure out the point of it other than an event where I did not get tot bags,

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    Found the Borderlands Scout.

  • @Fluffball.8307 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

    You are the kind of person who ruins the events.
    PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

    No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

    Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

    Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

    Your'e not understanding my point. People are saying that mounts are fine because the commander can command and tell people what to do. Except NO THEY CAN'T, and if a commander starts issuing orders, the zerg is going to immediately fall apart in a hostile map chat. No one in their right mind is going to listen to a PvE commander bossing people around in a dang farming event.

    I have absolutely zero respect for PvE commanders outside of teaching newbies TT, but that's not the debate here.

    Not true. I ran 3 2 hr runs just niw and everybody was tip top.

    I say wait. They wait.
    If they should ever be unruly, i tag down and bail on map. 40% will disperse automatically.

    I dont do story time. Unless its on 2 min break.

  • Sorry but wp'ing up and using griffon to get back to squad is amazing.

    Anyway there is solution already:

    Find "No mounts" "Mounts only to catch up" squad in LFG.

  • I finally saw mention today that the race achievement can only be obtained by completing the race in under two minutes with a mount. Those completing the race in under two minutes without a mount (by using Daredevil) do not get the achievement.

    /salute to those who helped pedestrians run the race
    /sad that their efforts were wasted due to lack of communication from the game

  • I agree that mounts in the Lab was a terrible idea. It was already bad enough with the kids and their legendaries one-shotting all the mobs, but it is sheer hell now. Very poorly thought out. Oh - and it DOES NOT make me want a mount; it makes me not want to bother logging in.

  • I'd like to suggest a very different solution.

    In PoF, before you have mounts, you have to do activities on a BORROWED mount. Why not have borrowable mounts in the lab for everybody? Not only would it even the playing field, it would give free players a sample of what they are missing. If seeing someone on a mount makes people want one, imagine being able to try one out...but only in that little limited space.

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

  • @Spook.5847 said:
    I agree that mounts in the Lab was a terrible idea. It was already bad enough with the kids and their legendaries one-shotting all the mobs, but it is sheer hell now. Very poorly thought out. Oh - and it DOES NOT make me want a mount; it makes me not want to bother logging in.

    Legendaries are the exact same basic stats as Ascended, you can just change the stats to a different prefix on the fly.
    They aren't the strongest in the game, they just allow versatility without having to restat ascended in the mystic forge every time.
    Which means second in strength is exotic which can be bought on the market and so you are literally complaining falsely about gear.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • @Rennie.6750 said:
    The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

    However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.
    His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.
    In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

    However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.
    His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.
    In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

    I would say that having mounts doing 4.5k damage to ~15k health NPCs is kind of a big deal when you have 30 people willing to tag them. But the fact that they can also get way ahead of the group make people who would behave nicely otherwise frustrated and selfish too. Overall, this only takes one individual with a disruptive behaviour to ruin the fun for everyone else, as it will kitten off another guy who will give in to the perceived easy extra loot, which isn't great in open world PvE, because there isn't much you can do about this except disbanding. Then everyone is kind of pissed off.

  • @Rennie.6750 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

    However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.
    His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.
    In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

    I would say that having mounts doing 4.5k damage to ~15k health NPCs is kind of a big deal when you have 30 people willing to tag them. But the fact that they can also get way ahead of the group make people who would behave nicely otherwise frustrated and selfish too. Overall, this only takes one individual with a disruptive behaviour to ruin the fun for everyone else, as it will kitten off another guy who will give in to the perceived easy extra loot, which isn't great in open world PvE, because there isn't much you can do about this except disbanding. Then everyone is kind of pissed off.

    Basically we had one bad person yesterday who opened doors even though the commander has stated to not do that, he was warned about it and he got salty so we kicked him and he went and opened all the doors and ran away then left the instance. Which in the end didn't effect us much because he didn't kill anything. They can't do it on their own for the most part, hence why they need a commander. If you kick them, they aren't welcome there and they will get tired and leave.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • Toast.6459Toast.6459 Member
    edited October 21, 2017

    @sacredninja.5236 said:
    This is absolute kitten, F2P is a trial, ppl who buy xpacs get new things, things to give them an advantage, like glider and mounts, access to new armor stats… and so on.
    Just because some ppl decide not to buy said xpacs, should the rest of the community suffer? Should the game be held back by the ones not financially contributing to the maintenance and further development of this game?
    I think the only thing anet should change is setting a time limit to the free account, say max 30 days, buy the game after that or no more game time.
    Or get rid of F2P all together!
    And I also feel that during this free trial there should be greater limitations.
    Sorry, but this is just how I feel. F2P should never have been a thing in GW2 anyway.

    I logged in just to comment on this. Do you realize how ignorant you sound?

    You may not be aware, but this game started as B2P, and there are players still out there that bought the original game and have yet to buy the expansions for whatever reason, and you're saying those players are "lesser" than you who bought the expansions? Find the door (haha event puns) and get outta here, because that's the most laughable thing I've heard. That said, if the majority of the community shares your attitude now, I can say with 100% certainty that I'm glad I quit.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    The issue with mounts is that it promotes selfishness. People who don't care just mount up run ahead and engage stuff, doing a ton of damage, so mobs can't be tagged by everyone. The issue is that it forces everyone to behave that way to get some loot, and then the farming is far less enjoyable and also far less profitable. Mounts completely demolish NPCs with their combat ability and also kind of ruin the group experience by letting people run ahead of the squad constantly. This isn't a player or a community problem, it's a design issue. Content has been made that way and consequences of mounts have not been properly evaluated.

    However, I have had zero of these problems with my friend commanding because he doesn't mount, targets pumpkins and nodes and makes people wait to open doors.
    His ads say that mounts are discouraged and people usually only end up using them if they fall behind because on the second round when a few people joined late, they missed the pumpkins and use them to catch up. Because he makes the squad wait to open doors, people can catch up and make it to doors too. Most people get to tag things as well.
    In the past, if you were a straggler you would miss tagging stuff too because there were that many people. If you can't keep up with the mass of the group than you may want to think of adding a speed boost to your build for the labyrinth. Honestly, as long as a commander discourages a lot of mount use, then the squad will somewhat reflect this behavior and minimize their mount usage. If people get ahead on mounts, that is their fault and they are missing loot. Engage skills are not that powerful, but they could do with some adjustments across all levels of play to lower their damage to promote the most damage being done by the player. They are engagement skills for a smooth transition into combat so you are already auto-attacking your target. Weakening all the engage skills damage wouldn't hurt.

    I would say that having mounts doing 4.5k damage to ~15k health NPCs is kind of a big deal when you have 30 people willing to tag them. But the fact that they can also get way ahead of the group make people who would behave nicely otherwise frustrated and selfish too. Overall, this only takes one individual with a disruptive behaviour to ruin the fun for everyone else, as it will kitten off another guy who will give in to the perceived easy extra loot, which isn't great in open world PvE, because there isn't much you can do about this except disbanding. Then everyone is kind of pissed off.

    As opposed to an unmounted character, lets say a Daredevil, who can run ahead and do 15k or 20k damage in a very few seconds to those same mobs?

    4.5k burst damage is easily matched (or exceeded) on most classes. Speed buffs are also pretty easy to come by. There have been people running ahead of the zerg to solo mobs and doors since the first halloween, long before mounts were a thing.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well.. without mounts it's hard for a melee combatant to keep up with the big zerk.. zo.. I'm happy with mounts.
    Plus the raptor can pull in groups together

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Jojo.6140Jojo.6140 Member ✭✭✭

    Mounts in the lab are fine imo. Tbh i dont have much sympathy with people who want access for everything in this game, but yet arent even willing to give Anet the few bucks the expansion costs.

    Besides, they are just awesome. Carving the 1k pumpkins for the achievement is so much quicker. Also with the griffon, you can reach the doors just extremely quick from the waypoint for the 250 doors achie. I like it.

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