I think allowing mounts in the Lab was a mistake

hellsqueen.3045 · October 19, 2017

@evilsofa.7296 said:I'm a returning player that bought the original game at launch, and while I have bought the expansions, I haven't gotten a mount yet because I'm still figuring things out (have a lot to catch up on). I also haven't done a Halloween event before, so the Lab was new to me.
I attempted to get into the race, and managed to get to where the race starts after dying a few times to the champion Horror that was rampaging all over the Lab by going into the Clock Tower, exiting there into the Lab and then taking the portal down. I have yet to figure out how to get to that other waypoint in the NW corner,; there's something on the wiki about red doors and green doors but I've only ever found green doors. The race started, and everyone just left at warp speed, leaving me running behind through a bunch of trash mobs by myself. Didn't get far. Wow, I didn't know this was supposed to be a group event.
And then, after that, the race seemed to be... broken? After going back to LA to fix my armor, I went back to the race start area, and waited around there for most of an hour wondering when the race would start again, but hardly anyone was in the Lab and the race never started again as far as I could tell. I kept dying to the champion Horror whenever it went through the race start area, so eventually I gave up because this was not fun at all. Mind you, I have no idea how any of this is supposed to work because nobody bothered to explain anything and I could not even find an entry on the wiki for the race. Am I supposed to somehow get into another instance or something? Going back to LA did not seem to do that.
What a waste of my evening.

Your problem has inspired me to rally the help of my friend with a tag to run a race squad entirely dedicated to doing so on foot. Just so people with no mounts can get the achievement.

evilsofa.7296 · October 19, 2017

Just tried the race again. I only saw one or two other players in the Lab and they did not participate in the race. The race started and I was the only player. Around the second corner or so, there was a champion Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, and then the champion Horror joined in on the same corner. How am I supposed to solo two Champion monsters? It seems like there's something I'm just not getting here.

Ayumi Spender.1082 · October 19, 2017

@evilsofa.7296 said:Just tried the race again. I only saw one or two other players in the Lab and they did not participate in the race. The race started and I was the only player. Around the second corner or so, there was a champion Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, and then the champion Horror joined in on the same corner. How am I supposed to solo two Champion monsters? It seems like there's something I'm just not getting here.

Lots of dodging. Oh and praying to one of the gods, because if you're alone... that's... I'm sorry.

Tachenon.5270 · October 19, 2017

Mad King says, PONDER: why not two races, one for the mounted and one for pedestrians?

Ameepa.6793 · October 19, 2017

@Tachenon.5270 said:Mad King says, PONDER: why not two races, one for the mounted and one for pedestrians?

I bet the pedestriars would still complain that it's not fair that they cannot do the mounted one. Or actually that the mounted one even excists. Like in that other thread.

Ayumi Spender.1082 · October 19, 2017

@Ameepa.6793 said:
@Tachenon.5270 said:Mad King says, PONDER: why not two races, one for the mounted and one for pedestrians?

I bet the pedestriars would still complain that it's not fair that they cannot do the mounted one. Or actually that the mounted one even excists. Like in that other thread.

Honestly, I can see the complaints still due to how many of them can lock you in place or slow you down and do a lot of damage and so on and so forth in the labyrinth where people would just say it seems impossible.

Shafi.8952 · October 19, 2017

Activision is trying to get a patent on this method of promoting microtransaction.

You put players who payed extra for in-game items with players who didn't, in order to promote the sell of that item.The player who doesn't have the item will want it.The player who does have the item will feel good about having the edge (or looking nicer) and spend more money to get what makes them feel good.

People with mounts are the advertisement. People without mounts are the target audience for the advertisement.

FOX.3582 · October 19, 2017

@Zoria.1392 said:You shouldn't have to manipulate people into buying an expansion.

You are talking out of personal experience. See this from a business perspective. You would do the same if you’re not a total donkey.

T G.7496 · October 19, 2017

For some reason this thread has become more about the race than the inclusion of mounts in the Lab in general.In the race thread I posted this, which is also how I feel in general about the inclusion of mounts in the Lab.

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:I think it's cool that they've updated the festival this year in a number of ways, including new activities designed mainly for players who've paid for PoF. It's great that they have something else to really use their new mounts with.I don't have PoF yet, but I think I'll try the race on my DD just for a laugh :-)~TGPS - this issue... not an issue. Grow up.[ I've added the emphasis here, because I think it's important; they've paid for something and I think it's cool that they get to use it in as much of the game as possible. Yes, I've paid for the core content (and HoT), including the festival content, but I've had several years of experiencing this content without mounts. In other words, I've had my money's worth from this content already, and I think it's perfectly acceptable for old content like this to be updated and aligned with new content. I think any attitude that opposes this is pretty naive, churlish and childish.]

For what it's worth, I've been in the Lab now a few times this year, as a pedestrian, and I've never felt that those with mounts have any 'advantage' over me, or that I'm excluded from participating fully in a run through a map because those with mounts are faster than me. In point of fact, I think I've actually had better rewards because those people rushing to the next door on mounts aren't really tagging anything en route, and I always manage to get to the next door in time to participate and get credit. After a while, I even noticed people using their mounts less and less; presumably because the hassle of mounting/dismounting wasn't worth it in the end.~TG

Yamazuki.6073 · October 19, 2017

Depends on what's being done, those farming bags generally are in combat nearly the entire time, so mounting to get ahead rarely happens unless they fall behind and had nothing to keep them in combat resulting in less loot for them anyways. Having a mount seems to only matter when you fall behind or die and WP as well as have a Griffon to instantly get back. However, getting rid of mounts don't equalize things, mobility would then be determined by who had faster classes/setups.

Danikat.8537 · October 19, 2017

Happy to say that last night I got onto a map with a very good commander. After we'd finished a door or whatever he would hop on his raptor, leap over the group in the direction we were going and then dismount and start clearing mobs. Also targeted carving pumpkins and candy corn nodes along the way for those who wanted them.

IMO that was a perfect use of mounts, especially since he was playing an asura so even with the tag he could be hard to spot. But the leaping raptor was like a giant arrow to show where we were going. I think it also made the point to the rest of the group (even more effectively than not using mounts) that it's better for everyone to use mounts to catch up and then dismount to keep the squad together.

Menadena.7482 · October 19, 2017

@Khisanth.2948 said:This is not a problem of having mounts in the labyrinth. This is a problem of n00b commanders who are doing it wrong. Running pass mobs with a mount and making a beeline to doors is leaving loot behind. Doors take too long to respawn to benefit from zooming around at maximum speed. Heck even just running around on foot is too fast for the door respawn rate. Anyone on a mount is not tagging and therefore not getting the loot.

Before commanding a squad this weekend I wanted to see what it was like to go in myself and use a mount. Once at the ground floor I spent so much time being agroed that it was nearly impossible to mount up. So yeah, I am guessing people are doing it for the novelty because you spend most of your time trying to be able to mount and then when mounted can not tag random mobs.

sacredninja.5236 · October 19, 2017

@Limodriver.4106 said:why ppl feel sorry for the one dont buy expac to help support the game?

Agreed, had no one bought hOT and/or PoF or spend money on gems, we might not be able to enjoy events like this at all!

Menadena.7482 · October 19, 2017

@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

Excuse me? No, we are not irrelevant, good commanders only tag up if they know an event fully and the best things to do in it (unfortunately not everyone follows that rule). Sure, go ahead and mount up to prove your "point" as you will not be able to tag anything while mounted and there is a good chance you will die from something while spamming the x key.

Sithis.3564 · October 19, 2017

Buy the expansion. Support the game you play.

Menadena.7482 · October 19, 2017

@evilsofa.7296 said:Just tried the race again. I only saw one or two other players in the Lab and they did not participate in the race. The race started and I was the only player. Around the second corner or so, there was a champion Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, and then the champion Horror joined in on the same corner. How am I supposed to solo two Champion monsters? It seems like there's something I'm just not getting here.

Do not try and solo both of them at once. Even a squad needs to be careful when they are both in that corner at the same time.

When I get to that corner I will open the door with the skeleton first and hope people hold off on the viscount. If the viscount is not out the skeleton will go fast but if both are out people never have time for the skeleton and he will be there forever causing an annoyance. Steve is just .... Steve. Pick the worst place on the map for him to be and he will show up.

sacredninja.5236 · October 19, 2017

Fucking Steve!!!!

Fluffball.8307 · October 19, 2017

@hellsqueen.3045 said:
@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

You are the kind of person who ruins the events.PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can Fuck right off.

Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

Danikat.8537 · October 19, 2017

@Limodriver.4106 said:why ppl feel sorry for the one dont buy expac to help support the game?

Firstly because if they're new bad experiences like this might put them off buying the game.

But also because it does not just affect people who don't have PoF. Many of the examples in this topic are from people who do have the expansion and have the mounts unlocked but were unable to use them when the commander did because they were in combat, and then couldn't get out of combat to catch up because they had to fight their way through all the mobs the other people had skipped on their mounts.

Menadena.7482 · October 19, 2017

@Fluffball.8307 said:
@hellsqueen.3045 said:
@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

You are the kind of person who ruins the events.PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

Believe it or not, there ARE people who decide to troll lab shards. The ones who find an organized lab and do whatever they can to unorganize it using the rubric of "you do not own the instance". You can say you have an argument if you are just opposed to the one person with a commander tag but when just you and your mate oppose a 50 person squad that is a different story.

Congrats, this is the one thing I hate about this time of year. I will gladly lend my tag to organize a lab in my precious free time but I do not have time for the kittens who want to mess with everyone else in the game.

hellsqueen.3045 · October 19, 2017

@Menadena.7482 said:
@Fluffball.8307 said:
@hellsqueen.3045 said:
@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.

You are the kind of person who ruins the events.PvE Commanders are the only way to get huge group things done, you don't listen to them then things get messed up.

No I'm not, commanders are. I'll happily follow some moron whose only qualification is they paid a small amount of gold, but if they get bossy and start ordering people around t hey can kitten right off.

Edit: on the subject of good commanders, good pve commanderswill realize they're nothing but a beacon and keep quiet unless something is ridiculously wrong. Bad commanders fill the chat with inane and unnecessary orders.

Most of the time I am quiet and act as a beacon but if you will not follow the few rules that DO exist either in lfg or when told to you, especially repeatedly, or, as you yourself say, when something is ridiculously wrong, then you can kitten off and go to another shard. Commanding a squad is herding cats as it is without some iknowbetter causing headaches for everyone else.

Believe it or not, there ARE people who decide to troll lab shards. The ones who find an organized lab and do whatever they can to unorganize it using the rubric of "you do not own the instance". You can say you have an argument if you are just opposed to the one person with a commander tag but when just you and your mate oppose a 50 person squad that is a different story.

Congrats, this is the one thing I hate about this time of year. I will gladly lend my tag to organize a lab in my precious free time but I do not have time for the kittens who want to mess with everyone else in the game.

If PvE Commanders are so useless, I shudder to imagine all the people who would not be at the mastery levels they are at today because of the times people were relying on said PvE Commanders trying to farm their core tyria masteries on Triple Trouble and other open world PvE content.PvE Commanders bring organization to situations and set the pace, if they didn't exist I can assure you there would be a lot of events that would go failed. PvE Commanders paid 300 gold just like every other Commander from all aspects of the game and use that tag to express that they have enough knowledge in a particular area to lead a group of people through it.

And yes, you are ruining the event by having this bad attitude about Commanders who tag up, get people together and lead them. You trying to act like you are somehow better than them because they are volunteering to lead something to increase chances of success, yet that somehow makes them irrelevant.

TheGrimm.5624 · October 19, 2017

Have to disagree here. The mounts fit well into the labyrinth. Have run a number of different ones and agree with those above that state they work well to allow people to catch back up or take side steps for things like pumpkins and corns. The race thru the lab was also a nice touch and adds an event pause for people wanting the race or for others to take a quick break. Haven't seen the situation where unmounted people are left in the dust since most people want to clear the mobs along the way for their loot.

Menadena.7482 · October 19, 2017

@hellsqueen.3045 said:
@Menadena.7482 said:
@Fluffball.8307 said:
@hellsqueen.3045 said:
@Fluffball.8307 said:PvE commanders are completely irrelevant. If some of the squad wants to run ahead on mounts, no one can stop them and it doesn't how much the commander swears at people to listen to him. Hell, if a PvE commander ordered me to do something I'd probably mount up just to prove a point.